Old 15th June 2003, 22:02   #1
Christophe
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in_vorbis v1.35 here

PP fixed/updated the following:
-fixed seek bug when editing tags
-updated to libvorbis post-1.0 cvs (fixes some rare seeking issues supposedly and made seeking faster)

http://firehose.net/~christophe/in_vorbis.dll

-Christophe

- time heals but i'm forever broken
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Old 16th June 2003, 08:35   #2
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v1.35 solves all my problems (finally!) What's up with the increased file size of the dll (+45kb)?
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Old 16th June 2003, 09:53   #3
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Now that's funny: have you tried creating a chained stream of 2 identical ogg files? Winamp and fb2k will not recognise them! For example, I have a file named "03.ogg" with bitrate 166kbps. I copy it once to make an identical "04.ogg". If I execute "copy /b 03.ogg+04.ogg final.ogg", final.ogg is recognised as a single file with bitrate 332kbps! (the original bitrate doubled)
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Old 16th June 2003, 10:59   #4
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(bleh, ive just reactivated my account to reply this)
What you created isn't a valid chained stream, because chained streams are detected by Ogg frame serial numbers, and both your "streams" have the same serial number, they look like one stream to any Ogg parser.
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Old 16th June 2003, 11:17   #5
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Hi Peter
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Old 16th June 2003, 16:55   #6
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the plugin god is back.
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Old 16th June 2003, 18:47   #7
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@ Peter

Thank you very much for fixing this bug
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Old 16th June 2003, 22:43   #8
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Thank you Peter for fixing this!!! Version 1.35 works very good with no problems. I have checked it on a great number of Oggs. In_vorbis v1.35 works fine like version 1.2.9!!! At least!

Thank God that plugin God - Peter - has returned!!!
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Old 17th June 2003, 04:48   #9
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well, Peter, glad to see you here, for however long it may be :^)

- `jars

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Old 18th June 2003, 08:10   #10
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Thank god this is finally fixed and we can move on. Has kjoonlee and Lider tested this?
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Old 18th June 2003, 20:31   #11
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Yes! I have tested it and I can say only one: For now it works VERY good like version 1.2.9!!!
I cannot see any problems with in_vorbis v1.35
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Old 20th June 2003, 02:33   #12
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Sorry for the late reply, I've tested it and as far as I can see, it works flawlessly. : )
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Old 20th June 2003, 17:19   #13
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Yes! This plugin has solved the problem. Way to go Peter.
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Old 23rd June 2003, 22:33   #14
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Sadly this vorbis.dll doesn't play back (semi)broken EAC .ogg files.

I believe you when you say that EAC doesn't tag ogg files properly, however fact is that winamp 2.81 plays them back just fine, and the more recent ones don't. Is there a reason why you suddenly chose to make this more strict, I always loved winamp for even playing the crummiest broken audio files out there and now it starts to get as picky as quicktime?

(see also http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=135564)
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Old 24th June 2003, 02:16   #15
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An Ogg Vorbis file, by definition, starts with the string OggS.

If it doesn't start with OggS, then it's not an Ogg file, but just pseudo-garbage.

So if Winamp doesn't play .ogg files, it's just refusing to play garbage. Fix those files.
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Old 24th June 2003, 02:54   #16
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Xiph.org, the ppl behind the Vorbis format requires ALL players to not play these "broken" Ogg Vorbis files, not just Winamp.
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Old 24th June 2003, 03:05   #17
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That might well be, but fact remains that older winamp played the EAC-crippled files (which indeed first have some ID3 tag and then the OggS header) and it rightly skipped playing a random file called something.ogg.

If attempting to play 'pseudo garbage' could conceivably result in playing very ugly and loud static then I -suppose- it is a valid design choice to not play any files that could possibly not be ogg, even though personally I would still want my winamp to try.

At any rate I very much doubt the only way to seperate .ogg from random static is finding the 'OggS' string or not.
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Old 24th June 2003, 03:13   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wish
Xiph.org, the ppl behind the Vorbis format requires ALL players to not play these "broken" Ogg Vorbis files, not just Winamp.
Define 'requires'? Will they sue if someone makes a player that will attempt to ogg-play a .jpg renamed to .ogg?

Look even though THIS particular reason of ogg-crippling has now been traced and documented somewhere (Im sure more people will make this mistake before EAC is fixed, since it isnt mentioned anywhere in the EAC help files yet), that does not mean that oggs can't be crippled by other means. Why would Xiph or anyone want to prevent people from ever recovering slightly damaged oggs?

"Woops, My_Lifework.ogg was stored on a bad CD and the first 4 bytes are forever gone. Help?"
-"Well tough cookies, even though playing most of it back correctly is trivial (it is a streaming format after all), we, the player makers choose to leave you in the cold cause your file misses 4 characters."

That doesn't sound quite right, does it?
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Old 24th June 2003, 03:41   #19
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Well, what are you waiting for?

Remove those id3 tags from your Ogg Vorbis files and enjoy your music. : )
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Old 24th June 2003, 03:53   #20
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puntloos,

Get an IRC client, connect to server irc.vorbis.com, join the #vorbis channel, and ask the Xiph.org ppl there. Monty is the main Ogg Vorbis developer.

There's no prevention of people from ever recovering slightly damaged oggs or whatever you're implying. It's just a simple thing, all players won't play Ogg that have been tagged with ID3v2. Thats all.
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Old 24th June 2003, 04:21   #21
puntloos
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Quote:
Originally posted by kjoonlee
Well, what are you waiting for?

Remove those id3 tags from your Ogg Vorbis files and enjoy your music. : )
Heh. I would. Sadly they are on CD-R.
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Old 24th June 2003, 04:30   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wish
puntloos,

Get an IRC client, connect to server irc.vorbis.com, join the #vorbis channel, and ask the Xiph.org ppl there. Monty is the main Ogg Vorbis developer.


I have nothing to talk to him about (other than ask about the vorbis-for-ipod, I didnt donate for nuffin, I say!). The designer tries to make a solid format, and whatever design choices he makes is just that - his choices. But I strongly doubt he will mind people who make a player (mind you: not an encoder; encoders that fail to conform to standards are bad) that plays back standard and -even- 'bad' oggs.

Quote:
There's no prevention of people from ever recovering slightly damaged oggs or whatever you're implying. It's just a simple thing, all players won't play Ogg that have been tagged with ID3v2. Thats all.
Which is prevention since at least id3v2 is 'pseudorandom' while some damaged oggs have even more mutilated structures with true random noise as a 'header' to the real data.
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Old 24th June 2003, 05:18   #23
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The problem is, people who use "correct" players (software or hardware) will be hurt by programs that create "wrong" files. So it's only natural to discourage "wrong" files. How? By making more programs "correct", that's how.

Well, if you can't fix and re-burn, then I don't know what you should do.

Last edited by kjoonlee; 24th June 2003 at 08:09.
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Old 24th June 2003, 06:25   #24
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what the ogg vorbis developer thinks about id3 tags and ogg files: http://coolplayer.sourceforge.net/ph...=333#reply_349
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Old 24th June 2003, 12:23   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by puntloos
Sadly this vorbis.dll doesn't play back (semi)broken EAC .ogg files.
I believe you when you say that EAC doesn't tag ogg files properly, however fact is that winamp 2.81 plays them back
So why you don't copy the in_vorbis.dll of Winamp 2.81 in the plugin folder of Winamp 2.9x?

You can also download in_vorbis.dll 1.2.9 from Sawg's Page:

http://www.public.asu.edu/~abarber2/Stuff.html

So you can play this broken files, and finally we can end this thread.
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Old 24th June 2003, 13:24   #26
puntloos
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Quote:
Originally posted by kjoonlee
The problem is, people who use "correct" players (software or hardware) will be hurt by programs that create "wrong" files. So it's only natural to discourage "wrong" files. How? By making more programs "correct", that's how.
This is obviously a chicken-and-egg situation. Should the winamp people use their player to indirectly try to make sure all oggs in the world are good, by rejecting playable but bad oggs, or should they make their player such that it plays as many files, even broken ones, as well as possible?

- From a commercial point of view they obviously should do the latter. Who wouldn't like to say 'our player even is able to play ogg files other players can't'?
- From a humanitarian point of view they should. Not everybody, or I daresay almost nobody who receives or creates id3 tagged oggs knows that they are doing something wrong (I didnt until I started actively researching), they just notice that an .ogg just stopped working.
- From a damage recovery point of view they should, its silly to prevent someone from recovering data that's 99.999% fine.

- From a 'future minded' point of view perhaps they shouldn't as pointed out by a few people here.

Quote:
Well, if you can't fix and re-burn, then I don't know what you should do.
Oh I can fix and reburn, and probably will.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lion King
what the ogg vorbis developer thinks about id3 tags and ogg files: http://coolplayer.sourceforge.net/ph...=333#reply_349
Yeah he says you should not INTENTIONALLY create damaged .oggs. I didn't. People who receive oggs from others (ooh, nasty pirates!) didn't.

Quote:
Originally posted by AtiUser
So why you don't copy the in_vorbis.dll of Winamp 2.81 in the plugin folder of Winamp 2.9x?
I did that already

Quote:
You can also download in_vorbis.dll 1.2.9 from Sawg's Page:
http://www.public.asu.edu/~abarber2/Stuff.html

So you can play this broken files, and finally we can end this thread.
Hehe well Id love to hear something from Monty (of vorbis) and/or the winamp developers.

Incidentally I think the most elegant way of fixing this would be to make winamp pop up an annoying 'this .ogg file is damaged and/or not conforming to the 1.0 spec' window, with an option not to see this window again. That way people know they made bad oggs but won't be permanently prevented from hearing the ogg again or recovering otherwise damaged oggs.
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Old 24th June 2003, 14:13   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by puntloos
I think the most elegant way of fixing this would be to make winamp pop up an annoying 'this .ogg file is damaged and/or not conforming to the 1.0 spec' window, with an option not to see this window again. That way people know they made bad oggs but won't be permanently prevented from hearing the ogg again or recovering otherwise damaged oggs.
That isn't a bad idea.
Christophe/Peter? Any chance of something like this being implemented?

___________________________________________________________


btw, there's nothing the Winamp developers can do about it.
The ogg plugin was fixed according to xiph.org specifications.
What they say about their format goes.
Adding ID3v2 tags to OGG files corrupts them.
Please report the bug to the makers of your ripper.

For now, you know your options:
Either remove the id3 tags with Tag (commandline version | frontend)
Or use broken in_vorbis from 2.81 (where this bug is unfixed)
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Old 24th June 2003, 17:18   #28
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I think it is really strange I have never had any problems with my Ogg Vorbis files!
Easy CD-DA Extractor apparently makes valid Ogg Files! And they have tags I am unaware of if it is Ogg Comments or ID3V2 but it just works also when changed in both Winamp and Cool Edit 2000!
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Old 24th June 2003, 17:32   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by AtiUser
So why you don't copy the in_vorbis.dll of Winamp 2.81 in the plugin folder of Winamp 2.9x?

You can also download in_vorbis.dll 1.2.9 from Sawg's Page:

http://www.public.asu.edu/~abarber2/Stuff.html

So you can play this broken files, and finally we can end this thread.
this version doesn't support meta data exchanging with the media library
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Old 24th June 2003, 17:49   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by neXus20
I think it is really strange I have never had any problems with my Ogg Vorbis files!
Easy CD-DA Extractor apparently makes valid Ogg Files! And they have tags I am unaware of if it is Ogg Comments or ID3V2 but it just works also when changed in both Winamp and Cool Edit 2000!
Those are Ogg Comments, not ID3 tags.
Oggs are supposed to have Ogg Comments (optional, of course),
but not ID3 tags.
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Old 25th June 2003, 05:34   #31
Christophe
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Quote:
That isn't a bad idea.
Christophe/Peter? Any chance of something like this being implemented?
DJ Egg: Yeah, I'm willing to implement that. Can anyone send me one of those ID3V2 weirdo tagged OGG file to christophe@winamp.com?

Thanks,
-Christophe

- time heals but i'm forever broken
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Old 25th June 2003, 07:59   #32
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Hi, : )

http://my.netian.com/~cajunlee/vorbis/good.ogg
http://my.netian.com/~cajunlee/vorbis/bad.ogg

I added id3v2 tags with in_mp3 2.91.

I sent it to Christophe too.
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Old 25th June 2003, 08:07   #33
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Personally, I think that if in_vorbis were to issue a warning message, then the message should urge the user to fix the file. I think there SHOULDN'T be an option to disable the message.
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Old 5th February 2004, 09:58   #34
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I believe I may have found a bug in in_vorbis.dll 1.3.5;
Tag your ogg with something such as,
"O Souverain, Ô Juge, Ô Père (José Carreras)"
and the output given by winamp will be.. 'problematic'.
For reference, I've tried it using 1.2.2 as well (the only 1.2.x dll i have on hand), and it seems to work fine.

Anyone have any insight? Sorry if I'm repeating old news, but I searched for awhile on this before saying anything here.
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Old 5th February 2004, 12:18   #35
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Winamp 5.02 has a unicode fix in in_vorbis, so maybe you should wait till thats out and see if it solves your issues.

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Old 5th February 2004, 17:05   #36
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Yes. It does solve the issue.
You should also read the known bugs thread, where this bug is referenced and a temp fix for Winamp 5.01 is provided.

*whacked*
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