Old 27th June 2014, 06:45   #1
max_broadcast
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Strange buffering problem, unsure what to do next.

Hi, I've been a long time lurker, first time poster.

I opened a VPS with 15 TB of bandwidth, have SAM broadcaster 2014.3 loaded, with mysql database, and shoutcast dnas 2.2.1 x64 bit ( I have tried icecast, and shoutcast dnas 1.9.8 and same result)

So, I have done some testing and not sure where to go from here, completely stuck, I searched google, and the forums and couldn't resolve my issue.

heres my speed from my host
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3584764335

its a beefy connection, I even ran pingtest.net and passed with flying colors, yet I'm still buffering, opened a support ticket with host and all they say is everything is ok on our side.

I dont think its a sam broadcaster issue, its more towards shoutcast, but then im not sure, heres why.

I loaded winamp with shoutcast dsp plugin on same server that shoutcast dnas 1.9.8 is loaded, and get the same buffering result, sam broadcaster does the same thing when I point to 127.0.0.1, or localhost.

but when i stream from my house in seattle, WA to my VPS in dallas,tx stream is solid, and hours and hours of solid streaming, as soon as I point sam broadcaster or shoutcast dsp encoders to 127.0.0.1 shoutcast freaks out, its not just shoutcast, same goes for icecast if I set my encoder to 127.0.0.1 ice cast buffers the same as shoutcast. Not sure whats up. I know im not the only one who has this issue.

So I thought if the stream is solid from my house in seattle, wa to dallas, then my house sam encoder is set to broadcast to my vps using public IP. So I set the public ip of my VPS in sam broadcaster that installed on the vps that shoutcast is installed and same buffering result.

Im stuck, and not sure what to try next. I have ruled out its not a outbound network issue, its something having to do with sam broadcaster/winamp and shoutcast/icecast installed on the same server and using 127.0.0.1 or localhost.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Old 27th June 2014, 08:56   #2
DJ-Garybaldy
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Have you tested a stream with a Standalone encoding program such as Altacast to see if the buffering problem happens with that? I found It solved a lot of my issues....

The encoders in SAM broadcaster never have worked that well & From what i read they keep getting worse with every release.

Not had buffering issues since I switched software.



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Old 27th June 2014, 09:38   #3
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the prime clue for the issue is you're trying to do the encoding of the steam on a VPS (irrespective of the encoding software as you've clearly shown).

as encoding the stream is going to use more resources than streaming (in general) and based on prior experience, not all VPS solutions have the CPU resources to cope with it (which is a different requirement to having lots of bandwidth).

so the first thing to do is check how maxed out the VPS is when you're running the encoding on it as well as checking what restrictions is present as part of your package and what you may need to do to upgrade to something with more CPU resources.
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Old 27th June 2014, 09:46   #4
max_broadcast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garybaldy72uk View Post
Have you tested a stream with a Standalone encoding program such as Altacast to see if the buffering problem happens with that? I found It solved a lot of my issues....

The encoders in SAM broadcaster never have worked that well & From what i read they keep getting worse with every release.

Not had buffering issues since I switched software.
I have not tried altacast, worth trying though, but I used winamp with shoutcast DSP plug in and does the same thing as sam broadcaster, I have 2014.3 installed, but also tried 4.9.8 version and same thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
the prime clue for the issue is you're trying to do the encoding of the steam on a VPS (irrespective of the encoding software as you've clearly shown).

as encoding the stream is going to use more resources than streaming (in general) and based on prior experience, not all VPS solutions have the CPU resources to cope with it (which is a different requirement to having lots of bandwidth).

so the first thing to do is check how maxed out the VPS is when you're running the encoding on it as well as checking what restrictions is present as part of your package and what you may need to do to upgrade to something with more CPU resources.
I do understand if the cpu is maxed out, but While sam or shoutcast dsp is running and encoding in mp3 with 2 outputs for high and low qualities, cpu usage stays 0-2%.

My package is unrestricted, full admin access with windows 2008 r2, I'm guaranteed 3.30ghz quad core cpu with 4 gigs of ram.

and with OS and sam running It's using 1.52GB.
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Old 27th June 2014, 14:12   #5
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When you look at SAM logs, any errors in there? "Unable to send data fast enough" errors?

Windows box? Have you tried temporarily killing the Windows Firewall just to rule it out? Same with AV protection if you run it - in case that sees encoding as a "bad" activity...

FWIW I'm running SAM 4.x on a VPS and never have issues encoding to a local DNAS (I use the public IP though, not the loopback)
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Old 27th June 2014, 15:46   #6
max_broadcast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotme View Post
When you look at SAM logs, any errors in there? "Unable to send data fast enough" errors?

Windows box? Have you tried temporarily killing the Windows Firewall just to rule it out? Same with AV protection if you run it - in case that sees encoding as a "bad" activity...

FWIW I'm running SAM 4.x on a VPS and never have issues encoding to a local DNAS (I use the public IP though, not the loopback)
Checked logs, no errors, nothing on encoders disconnecting or nothing, Sam broadcaster has been up for 3 days and not a word about not able to send data fast enough, or anything.

I have tried disabling the firewall, and same problem. I don't have AV installed yet,

I tried the same, tried the loopback and then tried using the public IP, no go.

I get the same result with shoutcast dsp and shoutcast dnas. It's not a Sam broadcaster issue.
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Old 27th June 2014, 16:03   #7
max_broadcast
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It seems like the shoutcast buffer is being overrun, like the source is sending information faster than what shoutcast dnas as enough buffer for. As soon as I connect the first 20 seconds are great solid streaming, than after that it'll rebuffer every 5 seconds, at one point during rebuffering it'll skip to the current location of the source song.
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Old 27th June 2014, 16:04   #8
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Well that's all good info. So it's down to the virtual machine then. What does the vendor use? VMWare? If so, here's one KB

http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/mic...rnalId=2008925

You're probably stuck now going down a list of "could be" items until you find the one it actually is. So we're not going to be a whole lot of help here, other than to reassure you that what you're trying to do can be done - meaning something's up with your configuration or VPS.
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Old 27th June 2014, 16:06   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max_broadcast View Post
It seems like the shoutcast buffer is being overrun, like the source is sending information faster than what shoutcast dnas as enough buffer for. As soon as I connect the first 20 seconds are great solid streaming, than after that it'll rebuffer every 5 seconds, at one point during rebuffering it'll skip to the current location of the source song.
We posted at about the same time. Just to be clear, this happens at any bit rate and frequency? 128kbps/44.1kHz MP3? Does the same thing happen if you choose another encoder (AAC+ for example)? - Just trying to rule out codecs / Lame version etc...

No intro/backup files, right?
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Old 27th June 2014, 16:16   #10
max_broadcast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotme View Post
Well that's all good info. So it's down to the virtual machine then. What does the vendor use? VMWare? If so, here's one KB

http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/mic...rnalId=2008925


You're probably stuck now going down a list of "could be" items until you find the one it actually is. So we're not going to be a whole lot of help here, other than to reassure you that what you're trying to do can be done - meaning something's up with your configuration or VPS.
I believe they are using xen hypervisor , but if this won't work I guess I'll just close the vps account and use what I use now. I tried the link you provided and did what was relevant to me and no change. Thx for the help anyway guys. Not sure what to ask the host that they can do to my vps, anything they can increase on their side? I'm baffled.
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Old 27th June 2014, 16:21   #11
max_broadcast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotme View Post
We posted at about the same time. Just to be clear, this happens at any bit rate and frequency? 128kbps/44.1kHz MP3? Does the same thing happen if you choose another encoder (AAC+ for example)? - Just trying to rule out codecs / Lame version etc...

No intro/backup files, right?
I have tried aac, tried ogg, wma all do it, just not at the same 20 second Mark but all rebuffer, as I go down the data rate from 128 to 112 to 96 to 32kbps the rwvuffering gets pushed back a minute or so, so at 32kbps essentially it won't start rebuffering at 20 second mark, but at 1:30min mark.

No intro files, no backup, nothing. My config is as simple as it can be. Just changed the port, and passwords all else is stock.
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Old 15th December 2014, 11:52   #12
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max.. did you ever solve the problem?
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Old 15th December 2014, 12:11   #13
max_broadcast
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I scrapped the idea altogether and returned to physical servers and not use vm nodes.

Something about streaming on vm, not sure what it is, had to be something with resource allocation on the physical server. The host provider said everything was fine, he even moved me to a closer DC, and nothing.

None the less, not where I wanted to go. But it will do for now.
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Old 15th December 2014, 13:17   #14
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ah yeah.. thats a shame.. im encountering the issue right now on a VPS. It's happening with sc_trans as well as SAM... so it's not just sam's encoders as someone else mentioned. There has to be something that can be done.. surely one particular setting needs tweaking..

For me, it's happening after about 5-20 minutes of streaming and then continuously buffers until you reconnect.. Then the stream is solid again for another 5-20 minutes. AAC was solid for 45 minutes before it started buffering.
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Old 15th December 2014, 13:53   #15
max_broadcast
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It is a shame, spent lots of time into this and couldn't find anything, I had a 1gig connection with 100+ mbps upload link and ram and cpu are not even used, we talking 2% on cpu and 1 gb of ram out of 8gb for a win server 2012. tried everything, even tried icecast, and winamp payer with the shoutcast DSP plugin, and it's not SAM, something with the encoding part of it, I tried AAC, MP3, WMA, any format allowable I tried and got different results, just like yours. AAC is the longest lasting, but it would consistently buffer, im bummed, and asked questions on other forums, and no resolution.

Im sure its a parameter change, but I asked my hosting provider and they had no issue adjusting a few things to try and resolve this, it's been a pain in the behind to say the least.

I tried shoutcast v1, dnas v2, icecast, older versions of icecast, don't know.
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Old 19th December 2014, 16:36   #16
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just stick to dedicated servers guys
it's not worth messing with virtual servers, especially not virtual private servers

you can get a cheap PDS with less ram and cpu for the same price as a VPS, shoutcast or sc_trans really doesn't eat that much, but it really needs reliable resources

one theory I came up reading this thread is that the issue may be dynamic memory allocation. As you're sharing your resources with other people, their info may get in cells between your information, causing longer processing times as well as longer reading / writing times. I'm not sure how virtual software deals with this but it might be an issue.

Here's an image for reference, this is a Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz with 8GB of RAM, four shoutcasts and transcoders running at a constant, steady 128kbps.
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Old 29th December 2014, 00:20   #17
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aron9forever -- thanks for the info. We've always been on dedicated and have several dedicated servers but we're trying to consolidate and trim down on expenses so I've been experimenting with VPS.

P.S. Your theory sounds very possible. If the issue is caused by dynamic memory allocation in a shared environment.. do you know if there is a way to prevent it on VM's that we run on our own dedicated boxes?
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Old 8th January 2015, 17:01   #18
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This is quite odd, as im running both a 128Kbps AAC & a 64Kbps MP3 Stream off a VPS that uses the XEN Hypervisor and i haven't had any issues.. hmmm i will look into this and try to reproduce the issue. and im only running 4 GB RAM Quad core @ 2.90 with no problems.
Be noted the music is coming from a remote source and is not encoded on the server. it might be a SAM broadcaster problem?

My VPS Provider is NFO. (NuclearFallout) http://www.nfoservers.com/
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Old 8th January 2015, 18:14   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoDistortion View Post
im running ..off a VPS that uses the XEN Hypervisor.. 4 GB RAM Quad core @ 2.90 with no problems. Be noted the music is coming from a remote source and is not encoded on the server. http://www.nfoservers.com/
Your success might be because you are encoding on a different server but also I'm sure the Quad Core helps a lot. Is there any transcoding happening at all? I did not go for Quadcore VPS because it was just as costly as getting a dedicated box with more bandwidth. I think the setup I tried was Dualcore.. Also, yes it seems to be isolated to the resources needed to run the encoders. If the resources are shared, perhaps it causes the issue. I had issue with SAM encoders and sc_trans.
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Old 8th January 2015, 18:25   #20
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Hmmm well my SAM Broadcaster runs off a Server i have here at home which does the transcoding. i think it might be the VPS transcoding might not be the compatible with the Virtual side of things and that could be your issue, i'll look over the next day and see if i can use sc_trans and see if i come up with any problems.
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