Old 12th June 2007, 00:25   #1
EfaustuS9
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yet another IE alternative now available

That being the once mac exclusive Safari 3.
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Old 12th June 2007, 08:29   #2
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Its Firefox in an ugly version of the Mac theme.

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Old 12th June 2007, 08:41   #3
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I've heard it's unstable as hell at the moment, but I'll try it when a solid final release comes out.




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Old 12th June 2007, 11:28   #4
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I cant do anything on it because there is no text, and i cannot type in it. Shame, i wanted to try it.
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Old 12th June 2007, 11:57   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by mysterious_w
I've heard it's unstable as hell at the moment, but I'll try it when a solid final release comes out.
Yup, not too stable. Trying to display bookmarks immediately crashes it, as well as pressing the + button.

Give it something remotely difficult to render, like two tabs of winamp forum or just one last.fm page and it'll sit there gobbling cpu time until you kill it via task manager (closing only destroys the window, the process keeps running).

(on a positive note, the interface doesn't freeze, and you can even still switch tabs)

Not even mentioning the various rendering bugs...

pre-alpha I'd say
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Old 12th June 2007, 12:31   #6
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i stay with my firefox.
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Old 12th June 2007, 13:52   #7
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This was also in Breaking News.
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Old 12th June 2007, 15:31   #8
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The font rendering looks kinda nasty (it's not subpixel, so it possibly looks awesome on CRTs), and it's been shown to be chock-full of security vulnerabilities, but it's alread helped me fix a Safari rendering bug at work so that's a good thing. And Webkit is an awesome rendering engine.

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Old 12th June 2007, 15:53   #9
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Rofls:
Quote:
Originally posted by Omega X
Exploited already...that has to be some kind of record.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...s/article.html
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl...20230&from=rss
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Old 12th June 2007, 16:24   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
The font rendering looks kinda nasty (it's not subpixel, so it possibly looks awesome on CRTs)
Actually, it looks not half-bad on my fuzzy CRT. And, of course, terrible on my LCD.

But then, I don't really like font smoothing in general. It always looks a little off to me. The solution to fonts being unsmooth is a higher resolution, damn it!

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Old 12th June 2007, 16:27   #11
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A rather expensive solution.
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Old 12th June 2007, 18:18   #12
EfaustuS9
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now that I have played with this beta a bit I am not to enthused. In my limited exposure to this browser seems a little resource heavy not to mention slow and buggy though admittedly it is a beta. Yet this mac user questions its appeal for supposedly it wasn't that great a browser to begin with on its native platform. I just may agree with him but disregarding its beta issues I think I'll stick with Firefox regardless for it (and opera) seem to be much more refined and feature rich offerings. Also you gotta love the apple propaganda on the safari homepage, is anyone experiencing that which they have portrayed in their little comparitve bar graphs... if so pass the kool aid this a way.
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Old 13th June 2007, 00:01   #13
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Just stick with Firefox and you will save


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Old 13th June 2007, 00:49   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by EfaustuS9
Also you gotta love the apple propaganda on the safari homepage, is anyone experiencing that which they have portrayed in their little comparitve bar graphs... if so pass the kool aid this a way.
That bar graph is indeed a load of crap...

It sure as hell doesn't render HTML faster than Opera and it doesn't start up faster than IE7 on a cold start. I hear that the Javascript part might be right but I didn't test that far ahead.

Maybe after they optimize it. But in its current state, its pure propaganda.
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Old 13th June 2007, 01:50   #15
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I hate how they make you install Quicktime with safari.

The layout looks OK, buts its not for me. The font smoothing does make text look somewhat better on a CRT screen, but all it does is make the text slightly bolder.


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Old 13th June 2007, 01:57   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Canon
I hate how they make you install Quicktime with safari.
It's optional.
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Old 13th June 2007, 02:10   #17
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Whats quite amusing is that the top bar overrides the normal windows one. So if like me you already have that skinned so the buttons are in the right place, on Safari there in the traditional windows layout.

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Old 13th June 2007, 13:27   #18
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It's already hacked (German article)
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Old 13th June 2007, 14:10   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by gaekwad2
A rather expensive solution.
Perhaps, but the only one that doesn't make me want to gouge my eyes out.

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Old 13th June 2007, 14:15   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Canon
I hate how they make you install Quicktime with safari.
They don't. It's an option. It's annoying that it's even that, though.

Quote:
Originally posted by Canon
The layout looks OK, buts its not for me. The font smoothing does make text look somewhat better on a CRT screen, but all it does is make the text slightly bolder.
This is an excellent article about the font smoothing. It seems that this is pretty much the full OS X font smoothing, and the way things are done are a bit of a difference in philosophy.

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Old 13th June 2007, 17:28   #21
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I think that Ars Technica has a good quick review of it. Found via Slashdot. I tested it out for a while, till the first crash, I needed to restart after patch Tuesday anyway.

I agree with what some have said with the font smoothing. I prefer the Windows default, it looks much betther than the methods used on Linux in Gnome and the one in the Safari port.

I also dislike the custom interface it uses. If I wanted my windows to look like an engraved piece of brushed aluminium I would use a piece of aluminium, or if that failed as a display, I would use a Windows theme. Oddly, the only thing I think is acceptable with a non-system-default interface are media players. Look at them all - Winamp, WMP - they all have a custom skin.

I won't touch on the stability issue as I only used it for a short time but from the sounds of it, it doesn't really hold up to being beta software. Or has my perspective of beta software been skewed by these perpetual betas of Gmail and stable Winamp beta releases?

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Old 13th June 2007, 22:19   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm

This is an excellent article about the font smoothing. It seems that this is pretty much the full OS X font smoothing, and the way things are done are a bit of a difference in philosophy.
Its also going to turn off a LOT of users since the text will essentially look blurry as hell to them.

Another thing I that noticed with Safari: If you maximize the screen with your taskbar set to auto hide, it will block you from the taskbar popping back up. Whether if you asked Windows to keep the taskbar on top of windows or not.
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Old 14th June 2007, 11:00   #23
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Firefox rules, why change?
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Old 14th June 2007, 11:11   #24
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I fully expect some Opera users to switch to Safari after the official release since Safari's rendering and startup times are now the fastest windows has.

Unless, of course, this has never really mattered.


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Old 14th June 2007, 16:00   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
I fully expect some Opera users to switch to Safari after the official release since Safari's rendering and startup times are now the fastest windows has.
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Old 14th June 2007, 18:05   #26
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Yeah.

A bit too slow for my needs. And it seems to have problems with rendering. Mac users can keep it. I think I'll stick to what I've got, and what's worked the best.

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Old 14th June 2007, 20:48   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
A bit too slow for my needs.
How so? The rendering is blistering fast here. Do you mean the rubbishness of the interface?

Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
And it seems to have problems with rendering.
Firefox/Gecko has always been better at rendering broken sites, and IE is the browser that broken sites tend to be targeted at, sadly.

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Old 14th June 2007, 22:00   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
The rendering is blistering fast here.
I'll just read that as sarcasm.

Anyway, they just released version 3.0.1 to fix the security issues supposedly.
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Old 14th June 2007, 22:47   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
Firefox/Gecko has always been better at rendering broken sites, and IE is the browser that broken sites tend to be targeted at, sadly.
You mean broken like ?

(not sure what's happened there, but for some reason it doesn't seem to want to display bold or italic text anymore)
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Old 15th June 2007, 09:06   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Omega X
I'll just read that as sarcasm.
It's considerably faster than Firefox at rendering pages here. I know because my work system loves to chuck out huge pages and they just flash up as soon as they're done downloading with Safari. WebKit is very fast.

Quote:
Originally posted by gaekwad2
You mean broken like [ url=http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9848/errjf9.th.png][Image][/ url]?

(not sure what's happened there, but for some reason it doesn't seem to want to display bold or italic text anymore)
That's kinda strange. Just checking now and I don't have the same problem, but I used the Apple updator (which would have loved me to "update" iTunes and Quicktime despite the fact they're not installed) to grab the new release (2.0.1) today.

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Old 15th June 2007, 09:59   #31
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I showed a passing interest, but it just looks flat out too blurry. its also has that very slow ui that seems to poison every windows port that comes out of apple hq.

I also fail to see who it is targetting. Can't be firefox users since it has no concept of extensions. Can't be opera users because they're evangelical enough to not care. IE users? They are already in the mass of people who don't give a shit.

I really believe the only reason it exists is:

1) because they could do it.
2) so that web developers couldnt ignore it and had a platform to test against (which is all i ever use safari for), thus ensuring that mac users don't get a raw deal.

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Old 15th June 2007, 12:10   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
I really believe the only reason it exists is:

1) because they could do it.
2) so that web developers couldnt ignore it and had a platform to test against (which is all i ever use safari for), thus ensuring that mac users don't get a raw deal.
It's probably in an attempt to further ingratiate people with the Apple "platform", convincing them to come to Macs. Apple do believe their software for everything is superior, and so if people get enough exposure to Mac software they might just switch.

I believe they plan to bundle Safari with iTunes and Quicktime once it's out of beta so a lot of people will end up trying it, and it is significantly faster than IE.

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Old 15th June 2007, 13:29   #33
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im unconvinced on the speed. It IS fast at rendering pages, that is clear. But the UI has a lot of catching up to do (although, yes, IE7 i also find VERY slow).

Amuses me how few developers seem to worry about ui speed these days.

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Old 15th June 2007, 14:59   #34
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Yeah, the actual UI elements are a little slow, but I have to say the ones inside pages do not seem to have the same problem, so in context it might not work against them too far.

"Lag" on controls is the main reason that people think a lot of things are "slow", though. If Java could sort that out it'd lose a lot of its stigma, in particular. It's nothing to do with speed of a system in general, just its responsiveness.

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Old 15th June 2007, 18:27   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
I fully expect some Opera users to switch to Safari after the official release since Safari's rendering and startup times are now the fastest windows has.
Bwhahaha. Suuuure it is. Because we all know Apple has a history of making technically accurate comparisons of their products.

Incidentally, Safari's non-native rendering, besides annoying me in general, particularly annoys me when I use the menus. I mean, really -- you couldn't use the native *menus*?

As far as comparing browser speeds, Safari seems about as fast as Opera.

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Old 15th June 2007, 19:26   #36
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I've noticed the same issues with fonts that others have reported. And it's slow to start up on Vista. I bounce from app to app at a relatively fast rate, and I don't like having to wait for my browser to open, even for an initial load. Blows my rhythm.

Apple generally nails the "slickness" factor with its products, but what I'd call "true usability" is a different matter. I give it a 9 for the former and a 6 for the latter. It's fine for kids who have time to experiment, but not for getting real business done.

I'll look at it again when it's finished cooking.

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Old 15th June 2007, 19:52   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
It's considerably faster than Firefox at rendering pages here. I know because my work system loves to chuck out huge pages and they just flash up as soon as they're done downloading with Safari. WebKit is very fast.
Its slow on my machine. I throw up a lot of things at my browsers that I have installed. Firefox/Opera is still faster at rendering. Other sites did benchmarks also and came to the same conclusion.

Anyway, there's ANOTHER security vulnerability right after 3.0.1 was released not too long ago.

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-973...g=2547-1_3-0-5
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Old 15th June 2007, 21:17   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
I've noticed the same issues with fonts that others have reported. And it's slow to start up on Vista. I bounce from app to app at a relatively fast rate, and I don't like having to wait for my browser to open, even for an initial load. Blows my rhythm.
It's actually quite fast to start up. I suspect you're running into two things:

Vista automagically knows what programs you open most, and keeps their files in memory. You haven't used Safari enough yet for Vista to keep it in memory.

Safari's really, really slow to start the first few times. I don't know why.

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Old 16th June 2007, 01:22   #39
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Already eliminated that as a factor.


Sidenote:
WOW at the speed of this new PC! It does a reference 5000-track playlist load in Winamp with full tag reads virtually instantly (<0.5 seconds). With my old machine it would take about 4 seconds for the same load.


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Old 17th June 2007, 17:29   #40
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Quote:
I think Apple did great harm to their credibility by releasing this unstable, buggy pre-alpha. On non-English Windows installations it does not display any texts in bold or italics (i.e. no headlines)! A click on the bookmark manager crashes it immediately, entering a few letters in any input field too - hair-raising bugs which do not shed a friendly light on the code quality of WebKit. But yes, it is great that Safari finally will work on Windows machines - maybe by the end of the year.
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/20...indows-safari/ (comment #13)

The bookmarks crash can be fixed by copying the en.lproj folders (in my case as de.lproj), unfortunately this doesn't fix the rendering though so it's still pretty much unusable.
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