Old 17th October 2015, 13:53   #1
lostinthecast
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Weird Behavior....

Hey everyone

I run a online radio station that is currently hosted by radiojar, while it is a good setup they are 25 bucks a month and they are not the best techwise. They use a closed source code and sometimes if i change something on the server it takes several hours for it to update. I deleted my entire library once and it played for another 12 hours after.

Needless to say I am moving from their servers. My new media host is a private dedicated server that can handle 8000 connections at 128kb stream.

I have set the server up like this.

Shoutcast Version 2 is running on the server and the ip is a public one, port 8000 is open. The music plays back fine with a pls file on any listeners connection HOWEVER, after about 5 minutes of stream time the audio starts to skip for a split second every 30 seconds or so.

Its a strange behavior and I know we are close to bringing this thing online for my listeners (i average abut 2000 at any one time) but I cannot go forward as long as this "skipping" continues.

I also installed Icecast to see if it was a shoutcast issue, the skipping occurs on the icecast setup as well. It is not the music files as they are all from a broadcast outlet and not stolen off the internet. I do not know where to go next and any help would be great,

you can listen to the stream in a winamp or vlc player by using the attached pls, give it a few minutes and you will start to hear the skips.

Thanks again

Here is a copy of my sc_serv.conf

adminpassword=********
maxuser=1000
streamlistenertime=0
password=********
publicserver=always
requirestreamconfigs=1
streamid_1=1
streampath_1=http://www.jaysodyssey.com:8000
streamauthhash_1=NaI6Ah4oX9PRjnOr9FH2
buffertype=1
adaptivebuffersize=15
Attached Files
File Type: zip listen.zip (255 Bytes, 230 views)
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Old 17th October 2015, 17:22   #2
neralex
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What is your source? Check the DNAS log if some errors are occured and paste the errors. But i guess the issue is based on the source of your stream. It could be that some mp3 files have different encoding formats or something is going wrong on your source-client.
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Old 17th October 2015, 21:44   #3
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As neralex has said it could be your source but it could also be your host is providing a server (virtualized or not) with very limited CPU allocated for the DNAS. If you can't find a problem with your source then check with your host about CPU allocation.
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Old 17th October 2015, 23:02   #4
lostinthecast
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HEy everyone, thanks for the responses,

When you say source are you referring to the software that does the playback, if so that is not suspect at this time. ALL MP3 are from original wav format and are ONE bitrate, their is no discrepancy there.

Where do I get these logs and what do the errors look like

As for my host they are not restricting CPU usage in any way whatsoever, the server is using less then 5% of its cpu atm.

thanks
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:49   #5
jaromanda
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Originally Posted by lostinthecast View Post
When you say source are you referring to the software that does the playback, if so that is not suspect at this time. ALL MP3 are from original wav format and are ONE bitrate, their is no discrepancy there.
If the unnamed program that streams to DNAS is badly written, then the history and format of your MP3's is irrelevant ... what is the unnamed program that you use as a source-client

"If you don't like DNAS, write your own damn system"

So I did
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Old 18th October 2015, 04:24   #6
lostinthecast
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Is that the playback software?
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Old 18th October 2015, 04:29   #7
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it may be ... it's the thing you put in the address and password for DNAS, and the encoding options like codec and bitrate

"If you don't like DNAS, write your own damn system"

So I did
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Old 18th October 2015, 04:46   #8
lostinthecast
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Oh thats a software called Nextkast, a newer automation software to be sure but the code is solid, I am going to run some additional tests as well!
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Old 18th October 2015, 08:57   #9
neralex
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Originally Posted by lostinthecast View Post
I also installed Icecast to see if it was a shoutcast issue, the skipping occurs on the icecast setup as well.
I think the issue is based on your nextkast-tool. Do you tried another solutions before or only this one?
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Old 18th October 2015, 09:03   #10
DJ-Garybaldy
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Oh thats a software called Nextkast,
URGH! Nextkast .... as someone once said on another forum....

Quote:
It looks like the kitchen sink the morning after a party
I could never get nextkast to work properly when I tested it out a few years back.

There are better solutions out there when it comes to radio automation.

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Old 18th October 2015, 10:26   #11
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Well in defense to the developer who i know real good, hes a good guy.

Sadly We tested SAM automation tonight on the same server, and connected the encoder to the same shoutcast server.

There was no skipping at all!

I am currently trying to install another program to test, my biggest hurdle is the server has NO sound card, so any system we use has to allow virtual pipelines or at the very least have a built in encoder

I liked setting up and running nextkast, and lots of people (over 400 some of them LPFM stations) seem to have great luck with it. I am obviously pushing it to its limits with a server install and no sound card to begin with.

I am also looking into DIR torre??? it is supposed to be open source but i hear rumours that the developer is charging for it, even though he claims it is free

thanks so far I will continue testing
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Old 18th October 2015, 10:32   #12
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The fact that the same symptoms occur in icecast and shoutcast can only mean that the culprit is nextkast - maybe it's code is solid as you say, but given the right conditions, a turd can be as solid as a rock

"If you don't like DNAS, write your own damn system"

So I did
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Old 18th October 2015, 11:01   #13
lostinthecast
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I agree that it is NextKast, the hope is that he will be able to fix it, because in all intents and purposes that software is awesome. I know the encoder area skipping kills it, but hey if someone is using it as a playout software they would be feeding the playout to a sound card and then to an external processor then to a transmitter. Winston is an awesome guy and I was one of the people that helped him make that software more "radio like" (I consulted with him on it anyways, its all his code!)

I know he is away at a convention but I will address it with him next week, for now I am doing some other testing!
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Old 19th October 2015, 08:19   #14
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Quote:
I am currently trying to install another program to test, my biggest hurdle is the server has NO sound card, so any system we use has to allow virtual pipelines or at the very least have a built in encoder
Why the need for a built in encoder? Stand alone encoding software works just as well esp when your using virtual audio cables or other similar software like Voice meter Banana to handle the audio source.

I've used several standalone encoders and I find them better than the built in encoders.

I've has no end of issues with SAM Broadcaster in my time their built in encoders buffer a LOT IMHO!

Yet to have any issues streaming with a standalone encoder....

Could never get Nextkast to work the few times I tried the program. It's another program I don't reckon is worth the $$$ the developer charges for it.

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Old 19th October 2015, 08:35   #15
lostinthecast
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Well as far as the comment about Nextkast I cannot totally agree with that. the software itself is solid and easy to use. It does what anyone would want it to play back audio and stream it.

As for our situation we just did some testing with a far more expensive playback software we own from BSI Simian. however we ran into another issue as virtual cables are not playing MP3 files only wav files right now..

I HATE SAM (long story) I will search out the banana software, we have tried two virtual sound cards softwares both do not work the way they should!

Will update later
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Old 19th October 2015, 08:45   #16
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Quote:
I HATE SAM (long story)
Glad it's NOT just me that hates SAM....

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Old 19th October 2015, 10:58   #17
lostinthecast
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Gary

while my reasons go back a long time, it has never been a true radio station software, the company purported themselves very early on to be better then the radio automation systems, I am not saying nextkast is the best of the best, but the developer put a lot of work into it,

I hope I can find a virtual device that works with this setup

I am pretty determined and honestly between NextKast and Simian we have two good software systems, if we can get playback to be steady that is!
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Old 19th October 2015, 11:06   #18
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Banana is running the same software as the vb cable I am currently having issues with, I will try it but am not sure it will make a difference
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Old 19th October 2015, 13:38   #19
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Quote:
while my reasons go back a long time, it has never been a true radio station software
2000 when I first used SAM Broadcaster v1.3 that was bad enough.... It got worse from v2 onwards. Hence why i write so many blog posts about it being crap compared to other radio software.

Quote:
Banana is running the same software as the vb cable I am currently having issues with, I will try it but am not sure it will make a difference
I've not used the voice meter banana virtual audio cables yet but I've not heard of people having issues with them either.

I still use the original ones we paid $30 for a few years back. I'm not sure what to suggest.

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Old 19th October 2015, 17:46   #20
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Gary

if your curious what's really going on check out this thread

maybe some ideas will come up

I just spoke with the nextkast developer, he said he uses a third party encoder code for his software, so its most likely due to the encoder not the core program itself

anyway for now we need to continue trying to solve this

any help would be great

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1757537
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Old 20th October 2015, 12:04   #21
DJ-Garybaldy
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I just spoke with the nextkast developer, he said he uses a third party encoder code for his software,
So he's borrowed code from somewhere else? That's just sheer laziness!

I've no idea as to what to suggest even after reading that other forum post.

Well i do know what to suggest but I'd probably get told off for spamming.

Quote:
Oh thats a software called Nextkast, a newer automation software to be sure but the code is solid, I am going to run some additional tests as well!
The problems you're experiencing are with Nextkast so maybe you should be asking him for support? If he can't give you that support then you'll have to find another solution.

I'm out!

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Old 20th October 2015, 12:45   #22
lostinthecast
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Gary

Its actually not uncommon for a programmer to use other peoples codes, especially if they do not have experience in that area

DARN I was hoping you might see something I didnt, what is weird is it all works with 7 , if only 7 was an option

as for your suggestion feel free to PM me I am curious
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Old 20th October 2015, 12:59   #23
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there's mention of "virtual audio" ... other than the "virtual audio" software, there are two other bits of software running?


can you please clarify all software your setup is running in order to stream to shoutcast

"If you don't like DNAS, write your own damn system"

So I did
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Old 20th October 2015, 13:16   #24
lostinthecast
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So far here is all that had been tested

Nextkast automation

SAM Automation


Simian Automation

Vb cable

Virtual sound card

Shoutcast DNAS 2

Icecast 2
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Old 20th October 2015, 13:40   #25
lostinthecast
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Current config is as follows

Simian Automation Playout to
VB Cable driver To
Edcast standalone Encoder To
Shoutcast DNAS to web

there is NO skips on this setup, but the playout software WILL NOT play mp3s, ONLY WAV files, this is only happening on the server, the same setup tested on win7 plays fine

something is different between server and 7 when it comes to audio and mp3 playout

I just do not know what yet
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Old 20th October 2015, 15:18   #26
DJ-Garybaldy
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Quote:
but the playout software WILL NOT play mp3s,
Maybe you should ask the developer of that software for help. (JAT!)

Either that or change the software for something that will play mp3 files.

I've not heard of a playout system that couldn't handle the playout of mp3 files.... Until now.

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Old 20th October 2015, 16:01   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garybaldy72uk View Post
So he's borrowed code from somewhere else? That's just sheer laziness!
Wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthecast View Post
Oh thats a software called Nextkast...
What are your objections to using the SHOUTcast DSP in Winamp? Winamp can play all audio files without issue.
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Old 21st October 2015, 03:46   #28
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Originally Posted by lostinthecast View Post
Current config is as follows

Simian Automation Playout to
VB Cable driver To
Edcast standalone Encoder To
Shoutcast DNAS to web

there is NO skips on this setup
yet, earlier you said

Quote:
after about 5 minutes of stream time the audio starts to skip for a split second every 30 seconds or so.
it's damned near impossible to help if your setup and the problem you are seeking help for changes with each post and you fail to mention it until asked!!

Simian Automation Playout probably suffers the problem you yourself pointed out that mp3 decoders are not "enabled" on windows server - so you'll need a player with it's own mp3 decoders.

in fact, as you've determined the issue is NOT with shoutcast DNAS (because icecast behaves exactly the same), or shoutcast DSP (because you don't use it), or winamp (because you don't use that either), I'd respectfully suggest you'll find answers to your issues somewhere that is NOT shoutcast technical support

"If you don't like DNAS, write your own damn system"

So I did
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Old 27th October 2015, 13:12   #29
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Me thinks Jaromanda needs to follow his own sig line

"11th commandment - don't be a dick."

What a
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Old 27th October 2015, 21:24   #30
jaromanda
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Originally Posted by lostinthecast View Post
Me thinks Jaromanda needs to follow his own sig line

"11th commandment - don't be a dick."

What a
do you comprehend the fact that your issue is NOT with any shoutcast product, so asking for help in "Shoutcast technical support" is a waste of YOUR time

"If you don't like DNAS, write your own damn system"

So I did
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