Old 28th October 2003, 19:48   #1
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What's up with racism/sexuality?

I know there is another active thread discussing some gay issues, but I want to talk about all of this from another angle completely.

First, let's take a look at racism:
99.99% of all humans DNA is the same (roughly). Can't we all just get along? Race is irrelevant. Culture is something else entirely, and it gets associated with race WAY too much. I am prejudiced against ideas seemingly engrained in certain cultures.

If you come up to me dressed as a "gangster", and can't speak English, then I'm going to make some assumptions about you, just as if I came up to you dressed like a stock broker, seemingly unable to use any words that were shorter than 10 letters. It would be stupid not to. But it wouldn't make any difference if you were white or if I were black or vice versa. It's a CULTURAL difference.

I hate the whole idea of the slur "Oreo" (because the person is "black in skin color" but "white on the inside"). I hate the idea that "white" is a superior race. Etc, etc, etc. I'm sure you can all think of about 100 other stereotypical things associated with a race but ACTUALLY due to a culture, that are just STUPID.

Within a single race there can be many cultures, and innumerable versions of the same culture. There ARE inferior cultures, at least in one aspect or another. There MAY be some very, very slight differences between races (intelligence, health, athletic ability, etc), but overall, we're all just the same, with slightly different proportions and different pigmentations.

As for sexuality (this I'm putting in the same thread because I view it as essentially the same 'problem' - discrimination):
For the survival of the race in 'early times' (trying to create as many strong offspring as possible), one can assume that this is the best configuration:

Males - heterosexual
Females - bisexual, with a strong tendency towards males

Why? Males, being the physically stronger sex, would be more adept at hunting, and therefore, would tend to die off more quickly than females. Therefore, you would have an abundance of females, and not as many males. So? You'd have more than one female to a male.

This also would explain why males would reject male-male sex, but embrace female-female - the instinct would be "join in!". From a certain point of view, it's a genetic defect to be gay, while from another point of view, it's now a genetic defect NOT to be gay, due to crowding of the planet.

In actuality, if there were more gay people, it would actually be a plus, at this point in the human state, due to overpopulation. If we were to start populating other worlds, it could easily become a burden - you'd either have to start cloning (which would halt evolution), or you'd have to have sex or use artificial insemination (as a gay male) with females.

...

I'm just fed up with discrimination. In all it's forms.
discrimination: "to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit"

"Affirmative action"? Ugh. State-sponsored discrimination. Sure, you may think it's "fighting racism", but what is it really doing? Separating. DISCRIMINATING.

"Black clubs" at high schools? That's fine, we do have to "embrace diversity", but what about "white clubs"? I assume you remember what happened when one of those was going to get formed.

"Gay Pride"? Ugh. Why don't you just go scream "Hey, look at us, we're different than you!! BOO!", and call it a day? (I know not all gay people support "gay pride" parades, etc)

The solution to discrimination is simple. Don't do it. Just. Don't. Do. It.

I know a lot of this doesn't describe many, many people. And for that I'm grateful. But before you go saying "that other race/sexual orientation is mean to us!", why don't you look at what your race/sexual orientation is doing first (this goes for straight/whites too)? It's a lot easier to change views in your own group than another one, particularly if some of the members of the other one want you dead.

And finally, to anyone who feels that they have been discriminated against and now want to complain about it, you had better be damn sure you have actually been discriminated against, because you may be about to shoot yourself and your entire race/sexual orientation in the foot. Remember that humans are a largely experience-oriented species - if you meet 5 gay people that you really don't like, chances are you're going to have a bad opinion of "gay people".

I hope to inspire some rational discussion on this topic. Please don't start a flame war. And sorry for the size - I just had a lot to say.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 28th October 2003, 20:03   #2
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A couple of intresting links:
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V105/N24/dicken.24o.html (written by a black man)
and a responce:
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V105/N25/theob.25o.html

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 28th October 2003, 20:03   #3
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Even though the "female-bisexual" thing sounds a lot like "the giraffe has a tall neck because every generation stretched it's neck further" *, I agree with most of the things you said. I actually strongly agree with you on some things like affirmative action.

*People used to think that before scientists excepted survival of the fittest.
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Old 28th October 2003, 20:10   #4
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I'm not racist and I'm not sexist!
If anything I'm a n00bist
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Old 28th October 2003, 20:11   #5
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Well, the "female-bisexual" thing would be evolved as a survival plus, just as the tall neck would be a survival plus.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 28th October 2003, 21:07   #6
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I think your rationalization of female-female sexuality is exactly that. A rationalization. It sits better with you than male-male, and is the more or less 'cool' or 'in' position to take, (at least coming at this from the male point of view.)

I don't really feel like writing an argument for why its incorrect right now. (cause i'm lazy. But evolutionarily i think its wrong).

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Old 28th October 2003, 21:19   #7
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Fine. So prove it (type up an argument). I don't really care, as it doesn't really detract from the rest of the post. I still think it's likely.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 28th October 2003, 22:06   #8
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well, from a pure evolutionary standpoint, it is wrong. the human species would not survive if the majority/all of the population was gay/lesbian. procreate, my shniggies.

i have spoken.

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Old 28th October 2003, 22:18   #9
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Maybe the point is for us NOT to survive, eh?
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Old 28th October 2003, 22:26   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hollow
I think your rationalization of female-female sexuality is exactly that. A rationalization. It sits better with you than male-male, and is the more or less 'cool' or 'in' position to take, (at least coming at this from the male point of view.)

I don't really feel like writing an argument for why its incorrect right now. (cause i'm lazy. But evolutionarily i think its wrong).
Yep!
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Old 28th October 2003, 22:39   #11
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xzxzzx, I wish there were more of you in the world, I really get on with people with such a beautiful outlook on life.
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Old 29th October 2003, 00:14   #12
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i stopped after the part of about it being cultural...i dont hate black people...i just hate people who ACT a certain way...it just so happens that most black people act like that.

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Old 29th October 2003, 00:26   #13
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Along with a good majority of white folk
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Old 29th October 2003, 00:58   #14
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Replace racism with culturalism. I dont discriminate or hate any one group or ethnicity. I hate everyone equally

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Old 29th October 2003, 02:54   #15
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Frued claims that everyone is secretly homosexual.

Love as an emotion cannot scientifically be differentiated from ordinary day-to-day affection except that it is of a higher degree. Love, AKA "the pair bond", is simply a biological mechanism that has evolved over time so that human beings continue having more sex.

It derives from emotions such as the dependancy a child has on their mother. And the reliance a hunter has on other members of a group. Basically what this means is, love has very little to do with sex, it is simply in place so that once a couple forms, they are likely to stick together for the rest of their lives.

You are just as likely to fall in love with a male as you are a female. Though social-standards have a gread deal of weight on this, so depending on our background, we are likely to ignore or hide our feelings of love for a member of the same sex.

This is my opinion. This is why i feel that the ideas like "homophobia" and "gay-pride" are stupid. Dont attack me over it.
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Old 29th October 2003, 04:15   #16
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here you go.

Quote:
For the survival of the race in 'early times' (trying to create as many strong offspring as possible), one can assume that this is the best configuration:

Males - heterosexual
Females - bisexual, with a strong tendency towards males
This is a value judgement. It feels good to you. I don't see any reason why that would help you produce more offspring that hetero all around. Remember too that males and female get along with the same gender. Its not like thats optional, going back to your early times there, males worked together and so did females. Modern norms are just that, modern. norms of human attraction have changed, but the heterosexuality of the species has not. You have to separate the culture from the biology.

Quote:
Why? Males, being the physically stronger sex, would be more adept at hunting, and therefore, would tend to die off more quickly than females. Therefore, you would have an abundance of females, and not as many males. So? You'd have more than one female to a male.
I'll agree that there would an unequal ratio of males to females. I don't think hunting acidents are the only reason though. But this point seems valid.

Quote:
This also would explain why males would reject male-male sex, but embrace female-female - the instinct would be "join in!". From a certain point of view, it's a genetic defect to be gay, while from another point of view, it's now a genetic defect NOT to be gay, due to crowding of the planet.
genetically speaking, homosexual sex is a no go for either gender. There is no possible chance of procreation, so genetically it would never be selected for. Even if we were to extend the "join in!" approach, it would make no sense from an evolutionary stand point to join in female-female any more so than male-male. Males can't service 2 (at least in a procreative sense) simulaneously, so since its a sequential process, join in just doesn't hold water. Whats the evolutionary point of joining in?

The only way this could possibly make sense is in a pecking order style view. You don't suggest that this is what your thinking, and i'm still not convinced that it would even make sense then.

Quote:
In actuality, if there were more gay people, it would actually be a plus, at this point in the human state, due to overpopulation. If we were to start populating other worlds, it could easily become a burden - you'd either have to start cloning (which would halt evolution), or you'd have to have sex or use artificial insemination (as a gay male) with females.

No. It might be a plus, and I don't really agree with that but evolution, will not select for something that doesn't produce offspring. (or at least not in reference to sex, the whole self-preservation vs. offspring preservation, issue aside). Over population has a lot of other causes, and the 'cure' is not having population become gay enmass.

As I said before, all of your arguement is a rationalization so you can make a point thats 'cool' to make. Express an opinion that you want to proclaim to hold.

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Old 29th October 2003, 04:44   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by s1138
i stopped after the part of about it being cultural...i dont hate black people...i just hate people who ACT a certain way...it just so happens that most black people act like that.
I stopped reading the thread after I got this this post. That is how I feel also.
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Old 29th October 2003, 04:50   #18
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Re: What's up with racism/sexuality?

Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
I know there is another active thread discussing some gay issues, but I want...
You think too much. Always know there will always be "haves" and "have nots." It's as easy as that. The "haves" always use issues such as race, money and politics to divide the "have nots." This is on a global scale today. Know your enemy.
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Old 29th October 2003, 06:26   #19
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applying what i said above: i think in an evolutionary sence, "homosexuality" and "gay sex", should be considered completely different things. Sex does not require love, and vica verca. For a man to love another man is natural, but for a man to fuck another man up the arse goes agains the cardinel rule of evolution: DONT SLEEP WHERE YOU SHIT!!!! gad, even pigs have worked this one out!
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Old 29th October 2003, 06:55   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by siddhartha_one
applying what i said above: i think in an evolutionary sence, "homosexuality" and "gay sex", should be considered completely different things. Sex does not require love, and vica verca. For a man to love another man is natural, but for a man to fuck another man up the arse goes agains the cardinel rule of evolution: DONT SLEEP WHERE YOU SHIT!!!! gad, even pigs have worked this one out!
The fact that alot of animals have same sex sex kind of blows this arguement out of the water.

It's been said that I could start an arguement in an empty room.....I see no reason to disbelieve this.
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Old 29th October 2003, 07:20   #21
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damn..
>

really?
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Old 29th October 2003, 07:35   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
The fact that alot of **animals** have same sex sex kind of blows this arguement out of the water.
Some "animals" also practice cannibalism. Does that make it right for people? I don't know but I consider people to be intellectually superior to most animals.

The whole gay revolution is media driven to get as many of us who are willing participate in homosexuality indoctrinated. The last days of Rome saw a rise in unlawful carnal knowledge, good reason why they collapsed, low moral values.

Now, I have nothing against people doing what they want to do behind closed doors. But this whole gay thing is being pushed on us as 'trendy' by the media and the evil people that own it. What their aim is to bring down the traditional family unit. They do this with popularizing homosexuality and feminism and force-feeding it to us with the media.

http://savethemales.ca
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Old 29th October 2003, 08:34   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by s1138
i stopped after the part of about it being cultural...i dont hate black people...i just hate people who ACT a certain way...it just so happens that most black people act like that.
In other words, you hate black people. Just what I thought. It seems I have no problems with every culture execpt for the majority of the Caucasian culture here in the U.S.A.. I just don't get it!? How can I get along with people from over 14 different countries execpt for the majority of the white people that live here in the U.S.?

The only other white people I get along with are the british that move here(wonder why?), the white people who I knew for a long time and people from other european countries. The only other execption are the white people from Louisiana, who are suprisingly friendly.
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Old 29th October 2003, 08:35   #24
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Quote:
The whole gay revolution is media driven to get as many of us who are willing participate in homosexuality indoctrinated. The last days of Rome saw a rise in unlawful carnal knowledge, good reason why they collapsed, low moral values.

Now, I have nothing against people doing what they want to do behind closed doors. But this whole gay thing is being pushed on us as 'trendy' by the media and the evil people that own it. What their aim is to bring down the traditional family unit. They do this with popularizing homosexuality and feminism and force-feeding it to us with the media.
ahhhhhh... very very well put nesNYC
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Old 29th October 2003, 08:41   #25
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Quote:
In other words, you hate black people. Just what I thought. It seems I have no problems with every culture execpt for the majority of the Caucasian culture here in the U.S.A.. I just don't get it!? How can I get along with people from over 14 different countries execpt for the majority of the white people that live here in the U.S.?
lets not jump to conclusions.. He has specifically said that he doesnt have anything against black people.

Its like me saying that there is nothing wrong with christian rock bands, its just that all the ones ive heard were crap.

Conclusion: s1138 hasnt met any nice black people.
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Old 29th October 2003, 08:58   #26
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Noone watches network TV anyway.

It is just there because shows get good ratings, so advertisers put money into it.
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Old 29th October 2003, 09:01   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Omega X
In other words, you hate black people. Just what I thought. It seems I have no problems with every culture execpt for the majority of the Caucasian culture here in the U.S.A.. I just don't get it!? How can I get along with people from over 14 different countries execpt for the majority of the white people that live here in the U.S.?

The only other white people I get along with are the british that move here(wonder why?), the white people who I knew for a long time and people from other european countries. The only other execption are the white people from Louisiana, who are suprisingly friendly.
America is a land of extremes. It's an extreme country with extreme people. I hear you on net getting along with certain Americans. But we are bombarded with imagery and kept in a perpetual state of fear ALL THE TIME HERE. The ruling class needs it this way to keep us under control. Another point is that we are intentionally kept politically illiterate because we rather give in or force fed pop culture. To understand America better, I suggest you see Michael Moore's film "Bowling for Columbine."

http://www.michaelmoore.com
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Old 29th October 2003, 09:17   #28
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i really dislike michael moore.
Sure, he goes for a worthy cause, but he is such a phonie.

How was that bit in BFC when he walks after Heston talking about some girl that died due to handguns, and then walks away with that big fake sad face of his.

Garhh.. i hate political beasts, no matter which side they take.

It doesnt matter that we are politically illiterate these days because, at least on a local scale, politics mean nothing at all. Who you vote for has no affect at all on the way your country will swing. They are all the fucking same.
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Old 29th October 2003, 09:43   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sawg
Yeah, next thing you know those women and gays are going to be allowed to vote. It will be the end of civilization, as we know it. Wont someone think of the conservatives.

I am getting fed up with the Religious Right thinking they can tell everyone what they can and cannot do. If you don't like gays on television, don't watch it. If nobody watches it networks will change. That the way a capitalistic system works. You can run your family however your morals see fit, but don't run mine. You cannot just sit there and control what I can and cannot watch on TV or see or do because you sit on your moral high horse and think your opinions are better then everyone else.
If you think we are living in a capitalistic system, you're sadly mistaken. Almost everything you see in the media is there by design. Be they gays or right wing conservatives. They use these people to further divide and confuse us. You always have to look behind the issues, who's really controlling what you are seeing. Rush was the biggest "right wing" cheerleader out there, the media enabled that. Network TV is the biggest advertiser for Gay/Lesbian/Feminist lifestyles. If the "right wing" were really in control, would the latter be allowed to air? Yet the both share the airwaves, pushing their messages. This is a classic divide and conquer technique. The question should be, who's doing the dividing and conquering?
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Old 29th October 2003, 09:46   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by siddhartha_one
i really dislike michael moore.
Sure, he goes for a worthy cause, but he is such a phonie.

How was that bit in BFC when he walks after Heston talking about some girl that died due to handguns, and then walks away with that big fake sad face of his.

Garhh.. i hate political beasts, no matter which side they take.

It doesnt matter that we are politically illiterate these days because, at least on a local scale, politics mean nothing at all. Who you vote for has no affect at all on the way your country will swing. They are all the fucking same.
Every American should see it to understand how we are made our own worst enemy via the media and fear. I don't at all agree on some of his views. One being that voting in the U.S. is legitimate in it's present from. But his movie included some great analysis. See it!
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Old 29th October 2003, 10:11   #31
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Ive seen the movie.. And now you point it out to me, it does raise some very important issues. Esp about the public's fear as a result of the media's selection of material.

I also read his book before i had seen the movie, i think the book is what put me off him. It just makes him seem like just another cheerful liberal who doesnt like bush and doesnt like guns. (like, who does)
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Old 29th October 2003, 13:10   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by siddhartha_one
Noone watches network TV anyway.

It is just there because shows get good ratings, so advertisers put money into it.
Do you have any idea how stupid that is?
No one watches TV BUT they get good ratings?
Any idea how the ratings system works?
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Old 29th October 2003, 14:21   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by siddhartha_one
Conclusion: s1138 hasnt met any nice black people.
well, first off, i live in georgia, and statistically speaking the black population is much larger then other parts of the US.

i know lots of nice black people....note what i said was that "most" black people act like that...and alot of white people do to. i dont like them either.

but if you really want to talk about racism....explain to my why i can get introuble for saying "nigger", but a black person doesnt. and why can a black person call me a "cracker".

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Old 29th October 2003, 14:30   #34
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Double standards are rampant in many cases of racism. The same goes for sexism:

Me: California! The land of fruits and nuts!

BOOOOOOOO!

Ellen DeGeneres: California! The land of fruits and nuts!

YEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!


Cool Colorado bumper sticker: It's Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve!
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Old 29th October 2003, 14:31   #35
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These threads are going to go round and round, everyone has good points, bad points and ones that make no damn sence to me. But all in all we are humans who make mistakes.
I am not religuous, I am not racist, But if I remember correctly someone once said and it is the 10 commandents I believe.
Do unto to others as you want done to you.
<Correct me if I am wrong on that I probably am>

But basically what I am saying is if you want to be treated right and respectful forget the god damn bull shit and treat others with respect. who the hell cares if it is a black guy dressed like a white girl marching in a damn gay parade screaming cracker.

He wants the same respect as you all want, as I want. End of story!

I've been c0rrupted in a world of make.believe.
-suzy-
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Old 29th October 2003, 14:34   #36
ElChevelle
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Quote:
Originally posted by lil vixen
Do unto to others as you want done to you.
But I want to give a girl a sausage injection BUT don't want someone doing it to me
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Old 29th October 2003, 14:37   #37
lil vixen
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
But I want to give a girl a sausage injection BUT don't want someone doing it to me
HAHAHA that was to cute el! Thanks for the laugh.

I've been c0rrupted in a world of make.believe.
-suzy-
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Old 29th October 2003, 15:17   #38
xzxzzx
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hollow


No. It might be a plus, and I don't really agree with that but evolution, will not select for something that doesn't produce offspring. (or at least not in reference to sex, the whole self-preservation vs. offspring preservation, issue aside). Over population has a lot of other causes, and the 'cure' is not having population become gay enmass.

As I said before, all of your arguement is a rationalization so you can make a point thats 'cool' to make. Express an opinion that you want to proclaim to hold.
Ok, fine, I don't want to argue the point at all - we've both made our points, no?

This thread is not about that, and my point is the same with females being evolutionarily straight or bi. Discrimination for good or bad winds up being bad overall, basically.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 29th October 2003, 15:50   #39
dlinkwit27
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Quote:
Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
The fact that alot of animals have same sex sex kind of blows this arguement out of the water.
proof?
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Old 29th October 2003, 18:05   #40
marvinbarcelona
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
proof?
http://www.wholeearthmag.com/ArticleBin/284.html - a book review

http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm - a short article on the subject.

There are plenty of articles out there on the subject, but I have tried to find two that appear to be objective.

It's been said that I could start an arguement in an empty room.....I see no reason to disbelieve this.
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