Old 3rd December 2004, 03:41   #1
Kickboy12
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If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention...

I am beside myself. Pell grants, which is money for students to go to college, are becoming unavailable for 85,000 students, and 1.2 million students who are currently receiving Pell grants will have their funding decreased.

Where is this money going, you ask?
This bill is going to help pay $2 million for a presidential yacht.

Think about this...
85,000 students will be unable to attend college in order for the president to have a yacht.

Also, farmers will be loosing $400 million of soil conservation money in order for us to make an American Cotton Museum in Texas.

I am so fucking outraged at this atrocity that I can't even see straight.


Here's the source:
http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publis...le_15692.shtml

[@imho] man
[@imho] I had dreams about unit testing last night :-(
[@sim`a] i have nightmares about syntax errors, whats your point
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Old 3rd December 2004, 06:06   #2
Mattress
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decreasing funding to the 1.2 million pell grant recievers by $1.66 each would pay for the $2 million dollar yacht. you can't spare $1.66?

they're increasing the debt by $2 trillion bucks, that our poor children will have to pay back. well look at it like this, there are 250 million americans right now, our population is increasing (unlike some EU countries), if you divide 2 trillion by 250 million it comes out to 8000 bucks per person, that's really not a whole heck of a lot, especially spread out over the course of a few years.

my question is, why can't they just fund everything? another trillion would probably do it

not that I support this bill, but when something costs a billion dollars, it sounds like a lot but it's really only four bucks per person. Try to keep things in perspective.
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Old 3rd December 2004, 07:26   #3
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i'd like to spend my money on something a bit more useful than a yacht for the president. i have more important things to buy like candy and soda.

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Old 3rd December 2004, 11:10   #4
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I could get a one ounce slug for a twelve gauge for about a dollar.

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Old 3rd December 2004, 14:57   #5
shakey_snake
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the gov't doesn't need to be funding higher education, anyways.


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Old 3rd December 2004, 15:19   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
the gov't doesn't need to be funding higher education, anyways.
Yes, yes it does.
What do you think the big "advertisment" for joining the army is? Join the army and earn money for college.

[@imho] man
[@imho] I had dreams about unit testing last night :-(
[@sim`a] i have nightmares about syntax errors, whats your point
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Old 3rd December 2004, 18:52   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
the gov't doesn't need to be funding higher education, anyways.
It does when the government is going to be facing a shortage of federal workers (jobs with college degrees), not enough people want to work for the feds. Plus, we have a nursing shortage already and some hospitals have "imported" nurses from other countries. And it's already been acknowledge that we don't have as many Science fields grads as we used, therefore creating a massive shortage.

It's always in every governments best interest to keep colleges/universities going. How do you do that? By investing in grants/loans/scholarships to keep your brightest at home.
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Old 3rd December 2004, 20:44   #8
zootm
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Stopping funding higher education is a major cause of class divisions.

If there was no funding for higher education (here), myself and many, many people I know would not be attending higher education. And that's not because we're dumb, it's because we're poor.

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Old 3rd December 2004, 21:20   #9
shakey_snake
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And Wrong.
There would just be different opportunities, and school would be cheaper.


The military is a whole different can of worms.
The gov't wouldn't be short of workers, because less beuracracy would be needed with a smaller gov't.


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Last edited by shakey_snake; 3rd December 2004 at 21:44.
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Old 3rd December 2004, 21:45   #10
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I worked full time nights in a gas station to put myself through college full time days. Why? I was laid off and couldn't get financial assistance. (I was getting $64 per week unemployment.)

Maybe I should have sit on my ass and whined about being poor, and waited for a handout that would not have came to me.

Hmmm, then I wouldn't be driving a Lincoln, wouldn't have a nice home, wouldn't have half the toys I do now...

Nah, I'm glad I put forth a little fuckin' effort!

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Old 3rd December 2004, 23:14   #11
Bilbo Baggins
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
And Wrong.
There would just be different opportunities, and school would be cheaper.
Different opportunities? Hardly.
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Old 4th December 2004, 00:51   #12
zootm
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
And Wrong.
There would just be different opportunities, and school would be cheaper.
You're funny. But if they're running so low on funds now, it's unlikely to get better by reducing their funding.

Higher Education would not be cheaper - not by any stretch (at the moment, we are expected to pay a certain amount of tuition fees, but the government contributes more than those). As for different opportunities, I assume you mean independant scholarships and so forth. As I'm sure you're aware, these tend to only work when there's an established past to a paid-for educational system, which has been gone for some time here, and in most other civilised countries.

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Old 4th December 2004, 05:44   #13
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If the gov't kept tabs on it and decided when you'd paid your $8000 and stopped charging you for it after that, maybe we wouldn't be so pissed.

Statistically it may be 4 dollars per person, but we all end up paying hundreds anyway.

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Old 4th December 2004, 06:48   #14
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Cabo, what years did you got college, because for me to attend the university of minnesota in the 2004-2005 school year, it would cost $256.85 per credit. If I was from out of state it would cost $704.16 per credit. It is per credit, but to get a band of 13 credits it would cost $3,339.00, out of state cost is $9,154.00. This is the rate for 13 credits in one semester, so for a full two semester year, (no classes during the summer), It would cost me $6,678.00, out of state cost is $18,308.00. On top of that, you need to add various fees for various things; i.e. Course fees, Student Services, technology fees, and university fees. These fees add up very quickly; student services fee for a student enrolled in 6 or more credits: $275.79-per-semester, University fee of $400 for students taking 10 credits or more per-semester. Now, with just those two fees looked at, it is an additional $1351.58, so for me it would then cost $10,505.58, and for out of state $19,659.58, per 2 semester year taking 13 credits a semester. Looking at it then, if I were to take 4 years of college at the UofM it would cost me $42,022.32, and out of state $78,638.32, excluding graduate fees and any increase in the tuition cost.

These numbers may not be exactly perfect, but they are highely accurate to a degree.

Price Source
U of M Tuition 2004-2005
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Old 4th December 2004, 06:58   #15
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You forgot Books!

Are you saying that you can't get subsidized loans?


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Old 4th December 2004, 17:14   #16
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I did forget books didn't I? Oops. And yes, what I probably will be doing is getting a whole butload of loans. But loans only go so far, and yes I do have a job as well. I'm just saying it's whole lot of money to go to college, especially in a world were it is almost mandatory to have sort of decent college education to get anywere.
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Old 4th December 2004, 17:42   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by S-uper_T-oast
I'm just saying it's whole lot of money to go to college, especially in a world were it is almost mandatory to have sort of decent college education to get anywere.
Exactly my point. College is pretty much a requirement now days, but this bill is removing that opertunity for more than 85,000 people.

[@imho] man
[@imho] I had dreams about unit testing last night :-(
[@sim`a] i have nightmares about syntax errors, whats your point
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Old 4th December 2004, 18:37   #18
shakey_snake
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If those people can't work hard enough to get themselves into college, then they don't belong there.


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Old 4th December 2004, 19:16   #19
WomanOfHeart
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I'm glad Vocational Rehabilitation pays for my college education. It costs $436.00 per credit to go to my school plus the cost of books and materials. I also get stipend while I'm in school to help pay for living expenses. I consider myself extremely lucky to have this.

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Old 4th December 2004, 20:20   #20
Kickboy12
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
If those people can't work hard enough to get themselves into college, then they don't belong there.
It has nothing to do with working hard. Working at McDonalds part-time can't pay for college education. It's unfair to those who don't have money.

Facist.

[@imho] man
[@imho] I had dreams about unit testing last night :-(
[@sim`a] i have nightmares about syntax errors, whats your point
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Old 4th December 2004, 20:41   #21
shakey_snake
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Ways to get money without taking money from the gov't.

1.It's called LOANS.
Any bank anywhere will give you a freaking unsubsidized educational loan, and just about any bank will give you a subsizdized loan.

2.Apply for scholarships. If you not applying for at least 15 scholarships you have a decent chance at, then YOUR NOT TRYING.

3.Work your ass off in HS.

4. Take night school and/or Community college/Jr college classes. You can get your computer credit/ English Comp class practically anywhere.

Anyone can get themselves through school if they work hard enough. Trust me.


----------------------


Facist? Really?
from the Wiki
Quote:
The word fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that
* exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual...
Im doing the exact opposite.
You are the one saying that individuals can't put themselves through school without a fuckiing pell grant.

It would help this whole thread if you'd have any idea what your talking about.


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Old 4th December 2004, 21:15   #22
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Not everyone is going to qualify for those loans. Even when people do qualify, the loans don't cover all of the costs and they end up having to pay the difference while they're going to school. For some people, grants and scholarships make up the difference. So, yes. There are those people out there that wouldn't be able to get through school without the help of those grants and scholarships.

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Old 5th December 2004, 04:16   #23
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Shake - might I point a few things out to you?

Loans: They put you in debt when you are going to College. Do you have a mommy and a daddy to pay them off for you? Do you have a nice fat job at Microsoft waiting?

Scholarships: More trouble than they are worth - most require you to maintain a certain GPA or do this activity or that activity. I don't know about you - but most people are Human.

Working in High School: This is not the days of your Parents, not everyone wants to hire some snot nosed brat from a High School, not all the jobs are worth it - and above all else .... Most simply do not have the time.

I have no problems with that last one except that college costs are rising across the board. Try again.

as for workiong hard? 'working hard' is a concept most used for those whose lives are going nowhere fast - some people do not have any choice in the mater - what will you say to them? "Oh I am so sorry that your condition prevents you from having a job - go get one anyway"?

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Old 5th December 2004, 06:22   #24
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Anyone who takes a defeatest attitude towards college will most likely end up not finishing. Blaming circumstances is just a way to make yourself feel better about being a failure.

If you want something bad enough you work your ass off until you get it. If you can't afford to go to school full time then go part time and work more.
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Old 5th December 2004, 06:54   #25
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thanks matress.
BTW, I ment work your ass off at you high school acedemics.


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Old 5th December 2004, 11:35   #26
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I was under the impression that you meant work at a job to fund HE there, shakey, cheers for clarification.

I had to quit my job the other week because it was no longer possible to do my Uni work and my job. The problem being that I needed my job in order to eat. Luckily, I have quite a lot of savings.

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Old 6th December 2004, 03:09   #27
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Academics - that's another story.
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Old 6th December 2004, 03:37   #28
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4 trillion and 287 million. Last I checked. My friend is going to apply for the pell grant. I hope he gets it. If not well, the usual, fuck Bush.

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