Old 21st October 2011, 02:39   #1
ElChevelle
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Burnt the house down

I sent an e-mail to corporate HQ telling them how we violate all procedures.

lol, I got the entire week off without pay.

Only in America.
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Old 21st October 2011, 04:25   #2
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I think that sounds a bit illegal on their part. Time to talk to a lawyer, bring written documentation about your company's safety policies and have at them.
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Old 21st October 2011, 05:30   #3
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shit chev, i hate to be right, for once.

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Old 21st October 2011, 10:01   #4
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Old 21st October 2011, 20:48   #5
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I hope you didn't make the "burn" list. Companies will not fire you directly over stuff like this. They will piss you off until you quit. They don't want to pay your unemployment. They don't want you leaving to seem punitive.

I wouldn't take getting laid off for a week as a good sign.

I have been asked to piss someone off until they quit. It's manager school 101. It will go away in 3 months or so.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 02:55   #6
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Originally Posted by rockouthippie View Post
I hope you didn't make the "burn" list. Companies will not fire you directly over stuff like this. They will piss you off until you quit. They don't want to pay your unemployment. They don't want you leaving to seem punitive.
I've been going down this path for about 2 - 2.5 years at the place I work. Luckily I don't give in easily and can take a lot.

In 6 months I am walking out the door. Not even going to tell them, which is absolutely immature. They have pissed on me for 2+ years now, why should I show them an ounce of respect. They surely do not deserve it.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 20:39   #7
ElChevelle
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Yup yup, they don't even deserve my ire.
I have been collecting photos of safety violations as insurance.

They do have an ethics and compliance hotline but I'm pretty sure that was a complete waste of time. The woman on the other end seemed as disgruntled with her job as I am with mine.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 21:23   #8
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You may have saved lives here.

How did your coworkers react?

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Old 23rd October 2011, 02:32   #9
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Well, if it's a matter of safety, no amount of aggravation should stop the truth.

I re-teach the following lesson to students at work quite often:

Tattling is trying to get someone in trouble. If that's your intention, you're tattling; shut up and leave. Also, tattling is going over someone's head before trying to solve the problem either yourself or at the lowest level of the command chain first when safe to do so.

Reporting is trying to solve a problem, where the possible punishment isn't nearly as much of a focus as making things safer and overall better for the situation as a whole. If you're respectfully reporting in a mature way, don't let anyone shut you up, and follow the chain of command in step-by-step order as high as necessary until the problem is solved.

That said, if you're reporting, don't quit unless you have no way of keeping your income and/or family financial security. I'm guessing by now you have some good documented evaluations of your satisfactory work before all this shit hit the fan, and I'm guessing you have some contacts that could help you get other employment, should you need it.

If nothing else, I have friends who would be quite happy to hire you as a coal truck or bus driver on my recommendation alone, but you'd have to move here and jump through a couple hoops to get the appropriate WV bus or CDL license. Just be advised that drivers around here have a lot of trouble due to the extremely challenging mountain road conditions. Some of these coal paths on the ledges of mountains are scary even for my slim 4x4 pickup truck especially in bad weather. We have a shortage in both areas, and getting hired isn't hard. The veteran drivers don't seem to be bothered by it though, they fly down those roads with their trailers leaning quite a bit on every sharp curve.

Be careful how many details you post here. I'm very curious as to what the specifics are, but it would probably hurt you if you posted something that could be used to harm your career.

I hope all goes well with this.

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Old 23rd October 2011, 05:31   #10
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The thing is Chev, is it really worth it; the photos that is? When you move on, won't you just want to wash your hands of the place?

I know I am in a different industry, but like you I have account after accout of one regulatory violation after another. I had every intention of cruisfying tue place as I walked out ...

Any more, I just don't give a shit. When I am finally able to move on I just want to be done with the place. Screw trying to turn them in and put myself through many more years of he'll in courts and/Or audits. I just need to rid myself of the shit hole ... Once gone I simply won't care. They have impacted my life negatively enough, I'm
Not going to willingly bring more upon myself ...
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Old 23rd October 2011, 07:19   #11
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At this point I don't know if he's ready to be "done with the place" and therefore might have to be careful.

The photos are probably something that hopefully won't be (as you say) "worth it" or won't be necessary, but are still (as Chev calls them) insurance. You need that in situations such as this, just in case. Every once in a while, you have to lay your cards down when someone calls your bluff, and it's nice to have an ace or two in your hand as a last resort. Playing those cards up front is being a bit of an over-righteous vigilante. But, when it comes to the point where you need to save your ass or kick the ass of someone doing serious harm...

[edit]

jesus fuck that's a huge pair of unrelated spam posts - if you read this and don't see them it probably means a mod deleted them, but just know that at one time there were two posts above this one that were enormous walls of text that had very little to do with the thread topic; quite impressive size though

[/edit]

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Old 23rd October 2011, 10:37   #12
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I had every intention of cruisfying tue place as I walked out ...
That is exactly what you don't want perceived by a court if you needed one. If it were me, I think I would file a complaint with the states wage and hour regulator. If you can prove you got laid off for a week because you made safety complaints, that would be illegal here. Your state may vary.

You have to be careful. Employees are generally "at will". That means they can fire you for any reason except those that are forbidden by statute (like reporting safety complaints).

The proof is with the employee. You can legally get fired because your eyes are brown. Proving it wasn't because your eyes were brown and was because you filed safety complaints is problematic. Courts will detect and be against you if you "had every intention of cruisfying tue place as I walked out ..." You don't want to be percieved that way. Before you start tossing rocks, you better make sure you aren't in a glass house.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 15:53   #13
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Yes, my ultimate point is the place is not even worth my time of tossing rocks because I simply need to move on and forget about the shit hole I am currently in.

I was curious to know, when/if the time comes for Chev, if he is going to feel the same way.
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Old 24th October 2011, 12:55   #14
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We'll see what transpires in the coming days.
The company preaches constantly that if you feel harassed, it won't be taken lightly.
I go back to work in a few minutes, we'll see what kind of "friends" I still have in my co-workers.
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Old 25th October 2011, 10:47   #15
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Mate, I don't have any words of wisdom or decent advice to give. I just hope you don't get shitted on too badly, if at all.
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Old 31st October 2011, 04:17   #16
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Old 31st October 2011, 05:13   #17
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filing a complaint is what got him into this mess.

following the blue collar worker's code is the way out of that mess, whether it's on the path in front of you or already in your lap.

1. keep your head down, don't rock the boat if you don't want to be thrown overboard.
2. those who have been around the longest managed to stay around that long by not questioning those older than them.
3. a problem that could save work shall go ignored unless you want to add to your burden.
4. if you're going to test the water be aware it can drown you just as easily as letting you float.

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Old 31st October 2011, 05:31   #18
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He complained to his superiors. He should complain to the feds. If OSHA shows up to do a on-site inspection, Chev becomes untouchable for a year or two because if he is fired without physical proof of wrongdoing, lawsuits and fines for the corp.

I've gone to OSHA before. They don't fuck around, or take bullshit from managers.
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Old 31st October 2011, 14:29   #19
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and they also don't make sure that he doesn't make a bad situation into a total shit storm, i bet where ever he applies next gets one hell of an earful when they call them up as is already.

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Old 31st October 2011, 21:02   #20
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I've gone to OSHA before. They don't fuck around, or take bullshit from managers.
My experience with them is that they show up like scavengers, nit pick and fine every little thing. You have to bid their inevitable fine for something into a job. I got it for $400 for having an unlabeled propane camp stove can that was unlabeled. It was a freaking camp can! It was for my camp stove, not the job. If it had been a torch can, I still would have thought it was chicken shit, but it wasn't. Ya know... the stubby ones that fit in a plastic ring. Let's see green, stubby, next to camp stove..... could it be propane? Anyhow it got wet and the label fell off. It wasn't even on the job. It was in the back of my pickup in the parking lot. $400 later.... worker safety improved...

The thing is I was the boss and the employee. OHSA saving me from me.

Quote:
1. keep your head down, don't rock the boat if you don't want to be thrown overboard.
2. those who have been around the longest managed to stay around that long by not questioning those older than them.
3. a problem that could save work shall go ignored unless you want to add to your burden.
4. if you're going to test the water be aware it can drown you just as easily as letting you float.
Your boss isn't as much of an asshole as you think usually. I've usually ended up being friends with my boss. I like to be friendly with people I work with. I think too many workers imagine the boss as some kind of unapproachable ogre. Usually they aren't. If enough employees treat the boss that way, it can become a self fulfilling prophesy.

The way I would have brought up a safety issue is to give the honcho a phone call and say "Look. Somebody's gonna get hurt. You should check into this" Any boss is going to think somebody getting hurt is bad. They don't even have to love their employees. Accidents are bad business. Accidents are one of the worse liabilities a company can have. More than one has gone out of business with claims. Any manager is smart enough to know that if you brought up a safety concern and later someone gets fubar, the company is gonna be double screwed.

I think Chev got laid off for a week because he pissed them off. Since he was trying to piss them off, well............

I have not had any trouble ever getting a manager to listen to me about something where someone might get hurt. But then I wasn't trying to burn the place down on the way out...
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Old 2nd November 2011, 16:20   #21
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i never meant anyone who's there on a daily basis for the real work was the reason not to rock the boat anyway.

I hate everyone, so you don't have to.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 11:35   #22
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It's really easy usually to become friends with your boss, you just have to remember to shut up about any really important, work related disagreements, and in time you become friends. After you become friends you can become more vocal, but I'd still not really recommend it

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Old 3rd November 2011, 11:42   #23
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^ The BOSS , in a large work environment, is NEVER your friend( void where the relative hired you 'cuz nobody else would) And is friendlier in a small work environment usually, but not always. And if you show 'em a way to market their product or do something to make more money, then they are friendly. But friends...uh..no.



* p.s. Only also void if you work in one of those cool "Share The Wealth Co.'s." that they show on Sundance Channel.
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Old 4th November 2011, 05:32   #24
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I was friendly to my boss and he thought we were friends so it's cool for him to not pay me for a month.

SEX APPEAL UP IN HERE!
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Old 4th November 2011, 09:57   #25
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Old 5th November 2011, 01:16   #26
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^ The BOSS , in a large work environment, is NEVER your friend
A boss that isn't personable isn't going to be successful. If you are working in a meat grinder, it probably isn't a job that is part of your long term career goals. One of the biggest expenses in business is training employees. Once you've made that investment, an employee that's better than nothing is better than a guy that just walked in the door.

The magic number is that you want 80% of your workforce to be long term employees. You don't get that being a jackass.

You are going to find the rare employee that really needs to get canned. That can become a real screw up if it's not done correctly. The idea that you're supposed to piss off an employee to get them to quit is stupid. The reason is that the bad karma in the workplace is bad for morale. Intrigue always slops over on everybody and makes a job a nuisance.

A good boss bends over backwards to make everyone work out. It's not just a good idea, it's cheaper. It's the rare person that's completely useless. If you flog them into doing the extra 10% work you wanted and they quit, you didn't win.

One thing I have noticed is that upper management guys are usually smart. It's the middle management guys that can make life miserable. Ambitious middle managers can be a lot more aggressive than what the company ever asked for. If they can get themselves promoted before they burn out their workforce.......
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Old 5th November 2011, 15:34   #27
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In schools, it's quite common for a "boss" to push someone into quitting rather than fire. Part of it is because the process for firing can be long and tedious, but the other part of it is because it is very easy to push someone in a school to quit. The job already includes a lot of pressure and stress even when everything is going perfectly, and very low paying when compared to other jobs requiring the same amount of education. With that in mind, all an administrator has to do is start re-assigning duties, unfairly micro-manage that individual, administer disciplinary measures for things that don't actually affect student achievement, and just be a general pain in the ass. More than half of all teachers quit the profession before their second year of service has begun, often because of this.

Oddly enough, although it bothers me a little, it doesn't always bother me that much. Many teachers that get pushed out like that honestly don't have what it takes to be good at the job when things get rough. At the same time, some aren't getting the rookie support they need to build themselves into what it takes.

When I do see it as a good thing, it's usually because a teacher used to be good but is now just trying to slack off and buy time enough to get to the retirement date. Those types are hard to fire, and much easier to push, and if that's the case, it's better for the students' education when they do get pushed to quit, and it's better for the remaining teachers who no longer have to take up the slack.

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