Old 25th March 2003, 21:48   #281
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Quote:
Originally posted by festerhead
May I guess too?
Ding! Heheheh.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 25th March 2003, 21:52   #282
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That one was easy. I thought about that, but figured it would be deeper than that.
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Old 25th March 2003, 21:53   #283
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Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
There are other factors, too. It's definately not perfectly 50/50.
unless you count the increased chance of her having a dominant gene that makes it more likely for her to have girls, it is, i believe. (having done something similar in probability)

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Old 25th March 2003, 22:00   #284
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Quote:
Originally posted by Orgone_Man
Uhh... you could easily argue that BG and GB are the same when referring to this b/c wether or not the two siblings are a boy or a girl is not really "stackable" if you know what I mean. So, 50/50 would be correct if i'm not mistaken.
No you can't. These are the (roughly) equally probable situations:

GG GB BG BB

Just because GB and BG has the same number of girls and boys doesn't make them the same. Two girls is less likly than a boy and a girl, in either order. However, it is just as likly as a boy and a girl, in that order.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:00   #285
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lets play a game called "its a dumb ridlle, who realyl cares?"! ready?...go!
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:05   #286
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Quote:
Originally posted by anubis2003
That one was easy. I thought about that, but figured it would be deeper than that.
I was making a point of how stupid word-riddles are.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:06   #287
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A'ight. Point well made.
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:10   #288
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
unless you count the increased chance of her having a dominant gene that makes it more likely for her to have girls, it is, i believe. (having done something similar in probability)
Well, there are other factors (identical twins, genetic tendancy, etc). But I suppose we should discount those at this point. Think about it - if you met 3 of your friends, and they all had a girl, and another child, then more often than not, the other child would be a boy.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:14   #289
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No, that other child's sex is completely independent of the first child's sex. Even if they had 20 girls, the 21st child would have an equal probability of being a girl or a boy.
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:39   #290
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Nope. If you found many families with 21 children, and 20 of those were girls (in any order!), you would see that very few of them had a girl as the 21st.

Think about it! These are the equally likely possibilities:

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
BGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GBGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGBGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGBGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGBGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGBGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGBGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGBGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGBGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGBGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGBGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGBGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGBGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGBGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGBGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGBGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGBGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGBGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGBGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGBG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGB
21 out of those 22 would have a boy. Now, if you said the FIRST 20 children were girls, then these are the possibilities:

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGB

so it's 50/50. But if you don't specify the order, the chance is not 50/50.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:40   #291
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Quote:
Originally posted by anubis2003
first child's sex.
Whoever said it was the FIRST child?

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:43   #292
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That's why I said the 21st. I was considering them in that order.

For the three friends, you could have
BG BG BG
BB BB BB
BG BB BB
BG BG BG
BB BG BB
BB BG BG
BB BB BG
BG BB BG
BG BG BB

There are 15 times when the second child is a girl and 15 when it is a boy.
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:57   #293
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
lets play a game called "its a dumb ridlle, who realyl cares?"! ready?...go!
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Old 25th March 2003, 22:59   #294
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Actually, the possibilites are:

GB GB GB
GB GB BG
GB GB GG
GB BG GB
GB BG BG
GB BG GG
GB GG GB
GB GG BG
GB GG GG
BG GB GB
BG GB BG
BG GB GG
BG BG GB
BG BG BG
BG BG GG
BG GG GB
BG GG BG
BG GG GG
GG GB GB
GG GB BG
GG GB GG
GG BG GB
GG BG BG
GG BG GG
GG GG GB
GG GG BG
GG GG GG

I never specified the order. A boy is twice as likely.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 25th March 2003, 23:02   #295
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Let's play a game called "This is one of the few riddles that follow the name of this thread"! Ready? GO!

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th March 2003, 02:24   #296
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Somebody please prove me wrong, already.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th March 2003, 02:25   #297
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your wrogn! oh. you said prove? fuq that.
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Old 26th March 2003, 05:56   #298
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Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
Whoever said it was the FIRST child?
that's the problem - if you don't assume it's the first child, and have no more information, you either have to assume it's 50/50 (from the *rough* makeup of number of births of people in general) or just accept that there is not enough data. if you knew it was the first, your GG BG GB BB thing applies (otherwise the only options are GG BG BB, and it can't be BB, so it's 50/50 discounting alleviated probabilities).

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Old 26th March 2003, 06:51   #299
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
that's the problem - if you don't assume it's the first child, and have no more information, you either have to assume it's 50/50 (from the *rough* makeup of number of births of people in general) or just accept that there is not enough data. if you knew it was the first, your GG BG GB BB thing applies (otherwise the only options are GG BG BB, and it can't be BB, so it's 50/50 discounting alleviated probabilities).
Um, no. If you know it is the first, then the only possibilities are GG and GB. If you don't know if it's the first or not, THEN the whole GG BG GB BB thing applies. It seems like you know this, but you're stating it the opposite way.

Again, someone please try and prove me wrong.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th March 2003, 14:32   #300
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if you don't know it's the first, that thing doesn't apply because without more data you can't make it order-dependant, so it's 50/50. if you do know it's the first child, then it's GG or GB (as you mention), so it's still 50/50. so unless the probabilities of one or the other is raised by outside forces, that's the most you can say for both, 50/50. sorry about some bits in that last post being wrong, it was 7am, and i'd just gotten back from work.

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Old 26th March 2003, 18:22   #301
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NO! GG is only half as likly as GB, if order is ignored. A random family is more likely to have a girl and a boy than two girls.

Ok, this doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. I'll give you a 'hint' - all the logic I have presented so far is sound. However, it is missing something. What is missing?

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th March 2003, 18:42   #302
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The father

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Old 26th March 2003, 19:44   #303
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The father is irrelevant.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th March 2003, 21:27   #304
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Let's just go to the next riddle. This one is really getting irritating.
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Old 26th March 2003, 21:32   #305
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Quote:
Originally posted by anubis2003
This one is really getting irritating.
Excellent. I have stumped the board, apparently.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th March 2003, 21:36   #306
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No, you have asked a question that we don't like(at least I don't like it). I don't agree at all with what you are saying.
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Old 26th March 2003, 21:43   #307
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But how is it wrong? What do you disagree with? That's the difficult part. Actually, I can explain how what I am saying is "wrong" (well, misleading, anyway). I'll give zootm a chance first. This is a classic statistical puzzle.

If I hadn't stumped the board, by the way, it would already be answered, wouldn't it?

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th March 2003, 22:37   #308
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I was never any good at sadistics (mispeling intended).

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Old 26th March 2003, 23:01   #309
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Yes, I had AP Sadistics last semester, and I think that what you are saying is wrong, but it keeps on being twisted back and forth by what everyone is saying that I can't make a decision based on it.
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Old 26th March 2003, 23:56   #310
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Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
But how is it wrong? What do you disagree with? That's the difficult part. Actually, I can explain how what I am saying is "wrong" (well, misleading, anyway). I'll give zootm a chance first. This is a classic statistical puzzle.

If I hadn't stumped the board, by the way, it would already be answered, wouldn't it?
This is so silly, i finally decided to register an account.

if we assume that
GG BG GB BB are all equally probable and you know that one child is a girl, you know that

probability of BB AND either BG or GB is zero. that leaves us with GG and (BG or GB).

answer is: 50/50.

A simpler explanation is you don't have to order children in the order of their birth. you might as well order them in the order of being introduced to you. then it's simpler to understand that BB and BG cannot be true. therefore it's either GG or GB.


-- Rumata
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Old 27th March 2003, 00:45   #311
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumata
This is so silly, i finally decided to register an account.

if we assume that
GG BG GB BB are all equally probable and you know that one child is a girl, you know that

probability of BB AND either BG or GB is zero. that leaves us with GG and (BG or GB).

answer is: 50/50.

A simpler explanation is you don't have to order children in the order of their birth. you might as well order them in the order of being introduced to you. then it's simpler to understand that BB and BG cannot be true. therefore it's either GG or GB.


-- Rumata
thats what i meant when i said 50/50 o so many posts ago. really! (hehe)
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Old 27th March 2003, 00:47   #312
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That makes sense to me. Don't know if it's the answer or not, but it seems like it could be. The question has been 'changed' so many times that I am no longer sure what I am looking for.
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Old 27th March 2003, 00:54   #313
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Here's an amusing math problem for you. In one barn, there is some number of chickens and some number of goats. It is known that there are 13 heads and 40 legs. Question: how many chickens and how many goats are there?
Condition: The reasoning must be purely arithmetic. No algebra allowed.
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Old 27th March 2003, 00:57   #314
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well, i ahve the answer using algrebra, but i can't do that, so i'm fuqed!
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Old 27th March 2003, 00:58   #315
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Well, I know that there are 6 chickens and 7 goats, but I can't explain it without algebra.
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Old 27th March 2003, 01:00   #316
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Welcome Rumata, *whisper* another one suckered in *whisper*

The chance of any person being male or female is always 50/50 regardless. Gender is determined by chromosomes not family relationships and there are only ever two outcomes. So what has the rest of it all been about then

UJ
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Old 27th March 2003, 01:02   #317
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That's what I've been saying, but I think they might be talking about something else. Anyways, there is a new question now.
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Old 27th March 2003, 01:10   #318
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Quote:
Originally posted by anubis2003
Well, I know that there are 6 chickens and 7 goats, but I can't explain it without algebra.
Therein lies the trick. How would you explain this to a 7-year old?

Thanks, ujay.
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Old 27th March 2003, 01:12   #319
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Well, I could say 6heads plus 7 heads equals 13 heads, and 12 legs plus 28 legs equals 40 legs.
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Old 27th March 2003, 01:16   #320
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But how would you teach the 7-year old to actually solve the problem for any number of legs/heads.
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