Old 15th September 2001, 21:27   #321
Curi0us_George
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Well, it did take the impact. If those planes hadn't been hijacked so early in their flights, and been so full of fuel, the towers might not have fallen. The heatfrom the burning jet fuel caused the steel to buckle. That's what caused the collapses, not the impacts.
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Old 15th September 2001, 22:27   #322
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Yeah and believe it or not, the second tower may not have fallen if it weren't for the rumbling of the other one coming down in addition to, of course, the burning fuel.
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Old 16th September 2001, 08:41   #323
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tell us why you want a war, neo, because we all wanna know

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Old 17th September 2001, 06:10   #324
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Re: strange pics...

Quote:
Originally posted by S@@REMETS***
Hi gang!!!
Check this out...

first

and second

that freaks me out


_______________________________________________________________

hey i hope this has not been posted any were else here but o well check this out people

Subject: Miami Herald Article


We'll go forward from this moment
by Leonard Pitts Jr. of the Miami Herald

"It's my job to have something to say. They pay me to provide words that

help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this
moment
of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing
I
can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to
the
unknown author of this suffering.

"You monster. You beast. You unspeakable *******.

"What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our
World
Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn?
Whatever it was, please know that you failed.

"Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.

"Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

"Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

"Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family,
a
family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a
family
nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous
emotional
energy on pop cultural minutiae-a singer's revealing dress, a ball
team's
misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready
availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that,
we
walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are
fundamentally decent, though-peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle
to
know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority
of
us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

"Some ********you, perhaps-think that any or all of this makes us weak.
You're
mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be
measured by arsenals."

"Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're
still
grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working
to
make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some
Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy
novel.
Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable
final
death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of
terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history
of
the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.

"But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us

fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last
time
anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and

monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible
in
our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any
suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.

"I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as
you, I
think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble
with
dread of the future.

"In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation,
fingers
pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can
be
done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened
security,
misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this
moment
sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined.

"You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of

our
character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this

day, the family's bickering is put on hold.

"As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as
Americans,
we
will rise in defense of all that we cherish.

"So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that

maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's
the
case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange:
You
don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't
know
what you just started.

"But you're about to learn."
_____________________________________________________________________

if you want some good high size flag pics for free you can go here
http://www.comstock.com/web/orderpri...gsmemorial.htm
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Old 17th September 2001, 13:15   #325
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Originally posted by DJ ROACH
hey i hope this has not been posted any were else here
It has.
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Old 17th September 2001, 13:41   #326
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I want a war because the US military is softer than ever, and the average Schmoe is more violent and cold than ever. What we need is a good war to make the brass remember what they are and for the people to be thankful there can be such a thing as peace.
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Old 17th September 2001, 14:43   #327
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so.. let me get this straight..

you want a war because it'll be good for the people? listen neo, if there was a war, you, like many others, would be drafted and killed in the fuckin war.

so don't tell me you'd give ur life away just to make the US seem scary again. because with NATO, the US is a country's worst nightmare.


neo's thoughts are just another "100,000 people must die for every 1 US citizen"

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Old 17th September 2001, 15:25   #328
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mr_sax, I don't think anyone wants war simply for the sake of war. (Well maybe Neo, but who takes him seriously?) But we just can't allow this kind of thing to continue to happen, here or anywhere else in the world. If you have an idea that is better than the one the U.S. administration has laid out, I for one would love to hear it.

And BTW, you need to do some historical research, then change the wording of your sig. Those were Einstein's thoughts on atomic war, but he was not the inventor of the atomic bomb. J. Robert Oppenheimer developed the atom bomb, based on earlier research done by a group of German physicists.
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Old 17th September 2001, 16:31   #329
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Hmmm, that's the first time I recall a U.S. president make reference to the infamous posters of the old west.
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Old 17th September 2001, 16:58   #330
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mr sax if we had war and you lived in the u.s. would you go if you were drafted?
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Old 17th September 2001, 17:43   #331
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War for the sake of war Mr. Sax--I think the majority of the people posting in this forum agree with you that it is a monstrous and idiotic proposition. I strongly assert, however, that your subsequent comments can be similarly characterized.

I suppose you're one of the people raising an outcry for due process and an equitable solution to this matter in the good ol' fashioned American way, right? So, even in the miniscule chance that the US by itself (and a purely equitable solution would not involve NATO as I understand the treaty) can round up ALL of the people involved and spend years extraditing them from the countries that will undoubtedly challenge US resolve in such a legal atmosphere, we will still have to spend additional years trying them in courts of law.

In the meantime, terrorists have adequate time to expand their territory and strengthen their command infrastructure. Also in the meantime, Canada is hit, France, England, Germany and whoever else sided with the US at the outset are all made targets for supporting the American devils. You see, civilians were made targets because they work and pay the taxes that keep the American "machine" running; so, in extending the analogy to allies of the US you see that eveyone siding with the US is in essence making themselves a target in the same way our citizens were made targets by merely paying taxes.

You are underestimating the depth of the problem. You are underestimating the action required to BEGIN to suppress international terrorism. Surely, it will never be wiped out completely, but sitting back and accepting that fact will only allow it to flourish unchecked. A strong message must be sent to the children of the countries that create and train terrorists that it is wrong and the world will not tolerate such behavior. A strong message must be sent to the governments of these countries that, when it comes to an issue presenting an international threat (such as training and harboring terrorists), the civilized nations of this world will not be put off by borders. We will go into these countries, and we will find the camps and destroy them; we will destroy the people in these camps, and we will destroy anyone foolish enough to stand in the way. And we would love for our allies to join us in this worthwhile effort, but we are not afraid to do it alone.

I have much more to say, but I have taken up more than my fair share of forum space as it is. In closing, I would like to address a few of your comments directly Mr. Sax:

1. "...just to make the US seem scary again." -- Basically, all I can say about this one is FUCK YOU! And I hope that our other "allies" have different attitudes, because we don't need bullshit like that on our side. I sincerely hope you're the lone idiot, and that you're not representative of your country's overall sentiment...especially since most of these bastards crossed your borders to get here.

2. "with NATO, the US is a country's worst nightmare." -- We shall see very soon just how useful NATO is. I predict support for retaliation will begin to falter as soon as countries are required to send men and materials to distant lands. I only hope that we can retain a handful of true allies, and with your attitude I wonder if Canada will be in that number.

3. "neo's thoughts are just another '100,000 people must die for every 1 US citizen'" -- Idiots think that, but that does not excuse the idiot that repeats it. No class at all, Mr. Sax...please try really hard to remember that thousands of innocent people were VERY RECENTLY either burned to death or crushed beyond recognition beneath tons of rubble. Respect them and their greiving loved ones by thinking about what you write before you submit it.

Overall, I was infuriated by your post Mr. Sax. I'm sure you're a nice guy, and if I knew you we'd probably sit down and have a pint and shoot the breeze. But I don't know you, and you obviously haven't given SERIOUS consideration to your point of view--because it's juvenile. We don't live in a peaceful world, surrounded by friendly nations filled with loving people. This reality is very unpleasant, as is the sobering reality that war, death and destruction are, and always have been, traits inherent to mankind. And they are inherent for a reason--sometimes there is just no other way for two sides to achieve peace. And war is always about eventual peace.

I hope you are a young cat Mr. Sax, because you express yourself as one. If you are not young, then I hope your attitude is unique, and that the rest of your country has more gumption than you. For the most part, we in the US are already aware that the initial proclomations of support and unity expressed by our "allies" will fade quickly. The only question is who will stick with us? Because you can bet that WE will kick some ass. The US is a country's worst nightmare with or without NATO. NATO makes things better because things go quicker and their participation insures broad public approval. But any support that NATO does give will be long gone before the US is finished its campaign against terrorism. No one else has wanted to fight this enemy...we don't WANT to fight this enemy, but this enemy has awoken the SLEEPING GIANT and will be made to pay for its sins against humanity.

Respect America Mr. Sax, but respect decency and intelligence too, by giving your thoughts SERIOUS consideration before you eagerly click on "Submit Reply." Oh, and if you're pissed off and want to flame me, don't look at my number of posts to try to determine whether I'm for real or not. I have few posts because, unlike some people, I only post when I have something to say. I've been around a long time, and I've seen enough flame wars...so post a reply to apologize, or don't say anything and pretend like this reprimand never happened, but don't start any shit--certainly not in this forum. You should realize why and where you were wrong; if you don't then just read this post again.

Sincerely wanting to be friends with everyone, but unable to tolerate ignorance and indecency, I remain...
Aspiration
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Old 17th September 2001, 17:58   #332
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OK first off, flame wars? this sounds like a flame war.

i'm sorry but i fail to realise why you think war would be a good idea. i agree that terrorists must stop their actions towards the US and that the only way to do that would be for the US to "scare" them in some way or another. but why must the US start a war with a country because they think that the country did it? (hmm btw it wouldn't really be a war, it'd be a one-sided attack against the country that wouldn't be able to defend itself against the biggest military power-house of the world).

and my point still stands - yes i do notice that the 15,000 some people died in that terrorist attack against the US. yes i feel shocked and sorry for those families of the people who died.

but i will NOT agree that having a War is a good thing. do you understand that we are all humans here on Earth? why attack and kill way over 15,000 people because of an attack on your country??

100's of thousands of people die in a war. this does not need to happen for the US to get their way and have it safer on their lands.

and if i lived in the US and they started drafting my mother and my family would try everything in their power to get me away from the US and the continent itself, i'd be in another country/continent within a day. war is bad. death is bad. they go hand in hand.

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Old 17th September 2001, 19:22   #333
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aspiration
"...just to make the US seem scary again." -- Basically, all I can say about this one is FUCK YOU!
The last thing we need here is THAT kind of talk. If someone wants to express their opinion, let them. That's what this country is founded on, but flaming in that manner isn't permitted on these forums.
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Old 17th September 2001, 20:04   #334
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This is not a world war in the traditional sense. This is a bunch of peace loving nations declaring war on terrorists and those who give them a place to stay. unfortunately, this war wont be like the nintendo game of the gulf war. this will be more american lives lost, because we will have to engage in had to hand combat with the enemy. i would not be surprised if the total casulties from the war exceed those from the trade center and pentagon.

also, thanks to Pakistan for stepping up to the plate and putting pressure on the taliban.

missyob made me post this.
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Old 17th September 2001, 20:26   #335
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This whole thing benefits Gary Condit bigtime!
He's left alone by the media for now and is free to have affairs with more interns who come up missing.
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Old 17th September 2001, 20:29   #336
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Originally posted by John M
... because we will have to engage in had to hand combat with the enemy. i would not be surprised if the total casulties from the war exceed those from the trade center and pentagon.
What the hell? If there is to be a war, it will be a 'war against terrorism'. Terrorists, by their nature, do not possess the means or inclination to wage war in the traditional sense. (you said this.) It is uneconomical and illogical to send troops after such small groups of people organized in such a fashion as they are. The only logical steps to be taken against these people involve surgical missile strikes, and/or covert ops type manuevers.

Should we take action against countries as a whole, they should first take the form of economic sanctions, and only in the worst possible degredation of the situation could we even possible consider military action.

As long as the situation remains in it's current state (non-sanctioned terrorist attacks upon the US), no one will be drafted. I cannot emphasize how much of a non-issue this is. What's more, very few will die, if military actions are taken. Those deaths that do occur will probably take the shape of friendly fire accidents, and the occasional casualty from a peace-keeping situation, (i.e. a rebellious action against occupation.)

The single greatest threat upon the lives of Americans are future terrorist actions such as what occured on the 11th.

...a blatant person.
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Old 17th September 2001, 20:29   #337
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do you suppose it would appear ireverant to what happened if you reported condit to the fbi as suspect?

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Old 17th September 2001, 23:13   #338
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle


The last thing we need here is THAT kind of talk. If someone wants to express their opinion, let them. That's what this country is founded on, but flaming in that manner isn't permitted on these forums.
THANK YOU SO MUCH


thank you thank you thank you thank you...

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Old 17th September 2001, 23:51   #339
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Shoulda seen what I did to his girlfriend
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Old 17th September 2001, 23:51   #340
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr_sax

1. i'm sorry but i fail to realise why you think war would be a good idea.
2. but why must the US start a war with a country because they think that the country did it? (hmm btw it wouldn't really be a war, it'd be a one-sided attack against the country that wouldn't be able to defend itself against the biggest military power-house of the world).
3. and my point still stands - yes i do notice that the 15,000 some people died in that terrorist attack against the US. yes i feel shocked and sorry for those families of the people who died.
4. but i will NOT agree that having a War is a good thing.
5. and if i lived in the US and they started drafting my mother and my family would try everything in their power to get me away from the US and the continent itself, i'd be in another country/continent within a day.
1. I don't recall ever stating, either expressly or implicitly, that war is a good thing. The proposition is ludicrous and I resent any implication that I would advance such a theory. War is the absolute worst thing about man, and we are at our worst when we engage in it. It is, nonetheless, part of man for a reason and that assertion is beyond dispute whether one likes it or not.

2. You must have meant to say something else right here because it seems pretty obvious to me that when a country attacks you, you retaliate. I don't know what foreign policy in Canada is like, but I know that, for the rest of the world, if a country attacks you, you attack them back--period. In this situation we have no enemy in the traditional sense, but we will still pressure countries involved in training and harboring these groups to either cooperate in the roundup of such organizations or pay the ultimate price of having their infrastructures bombed and their governments dismantled. (oh, btw, these countries are not as innocent as you make them seem. They are providing safety to fanatic murderers. They must choose whether they will cooperate in apprehending these groups, or whether they will risk the consequences of being defiant and continuing to offer these people a place to train and hide. These countries know the consequences of either decision...and may they make the correct, civilized decision so as to spare as many lives as possible.)

3. No, your point does not stand because you have made no point. I will not lecture on the proper way to assert a point and then defend it as I'm sure your English teacher will cover that for you in high school someday.

4. No one is asking you to agree to such a ridiculous proposition (except maybe neo, who is obviously even younger than you)--certainly not me anyway.

5. I'm so happy for you that your mommy would whisk you out of the continent rather than have you fight to defend your country. Is it noble in Canada to run like a coward? That's not something we value highly here in America. I totally understand conscientious objectors during Vietnam, but this situation is different--this is an attack on the mainland of our country. Granted, there may be no one country directly responsible, but there are people out there responsible for this and other acts. While we sit here discussing, they hide planning. So you run away and we'll send out the big boys to take care of the dirty work for you. Any lingering doubt I had that you were just a kid and totally incapable of discussing this matter in a mature fashion has just been dispelled. Let me recommend that you save yourself some embarassment and edit your post to take out the mommy comment. Oh, and stay in Canada...we have a little understanding here that if you want this to be your home, then you should be prepared to fight to protect your home. I feel sorry for Canada if it relies upon citizens of your stature for her defense...of course, you always have big, brave America right next door to protect you--don't ya'?

I apologize for my language seeing as how it infuriated so many people, but it infuriated me more to see some punk kid showing no respect to America or the victims in such a tragic time. Furthermore, the language was isolated and butressed in the beginning of the argument for purposes of effect. I did not realize that there were people so delicate and sensitive on this forum. In fact, I'm kind of hurt too, to have had my freedom of expression chastized... Maybe I'll get my mommy to call your mommies and get ya'll in trouble.
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Old 17th September 2001, 23:55   #341
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
Shoulda seen what I did to his girlfriend
And I suppose that the inference here is that you engaged in sexual relations with (aka fucked) my girlfriend, right? So, what is the difference between me telling someone to fuck off, and you telling someone that you fucked my girlfriend? Is your comment made acceptable by the fact that it is an inference and not a direct statement? Does it not matter that everyone who reads your comment picks up on the blatantly obvious nature of that inference, thereby making it as obvious as my express statement?

Hmmm, methinks the pot calls the kettle black...
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Old 17th September 2001, 23:57   #342
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Reference your sig:
"Small minds discuss people"
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Old 18th September 2001, 00:24   #343
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
Reference your sig:
"Small minds discuss people"
Thanks!

But foremost in this discussion has been the subject of events. Granted only average minds discuss events, but hey what can ya' do?

I think the admonishment of Ms. Sax was merely an incidental footnote to the discussion, and hardly warrants the classification of discussion at all. But if what you're saying is that you want me to lay off the kid, then I will. I do think he was asking for it a little bit though. In the South we have two cheesy sayings that are nevertheless pertinent here: 1.If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. 2.If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I don't claim to be a big dog or to be sweating my ass off in the kitchen, but I do believe in setting those straight that get out of line. I think this kid was out of line in the beginning, and instead of allowing him to be put back on the path, he was saved by a moderator trying to put me back on the path. Strange how that happens.

Anyway, my comment to you about the pot calling the kettle black is the discussion of ideas, so we can both now rejoin the high road and can resolve for me any confusion I may have as to the difference between what I was censured for and your comment about my girlfriend.
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Old 18th September 2001, 00:26   #344
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr_sax
OK first off, flame wars? this sounds like a flame war.

i'm sorry but i fail to realise why you think war would be a good idea. i agree that terrorists must stop their actions towards the US and that the only way to do that would be for the US to "scare" them in some way or another. but why must the US start a war with a country because they think that the country did it? (hmm btw it wouldn't really be a war, it'd be a one-sided attack against the country that wouldn't be able to defend itself against the biggest military power-house of the world).
i think aspiration made some very good points, at any rate they are the views of my nations leaders...anyways...

if you corner a rattle snake he will attack out of fear, for that matter so will every other animal on this planet including humans.
if we try to scare them with out doing anything to follow up are "scare" tactics they will call are bluff and bomb and kill more innocent people.


as for the u.s. being the "biggest military power-house of the world"
that maybe.
remember how long Russia spent over in the middle east, yeah well Russia is pretty damn big in comparison to them.
just the same as we are, we are bigger then Russia but Russia is bigger then them.
same goes for vietnam we thought it be cake, look what happened.
i as you dont think anybody should die.
that still wont change the fact.
war will happen people will die and life goes on.

sax you should have been in portland OR the other day and joined the 1500 people yelling give peace a chance.

this what follows is not directed at you or towards you or any of that i just wanted to tell this story below

i lived in oregon for years, the last riot they had i was right in the middle of, what was so funny was all the people (not all) were bitching about labor and what not when most of them did not have jobs.
they were young kids who thought they could join the bandwagon of reasoned rioting (like there is such a thing)and in the mean time yell fuck off to the cops.
what realy was funny actually more pathetic then anything was 9 out of 10 of those kids could not tell you much about either side of the protest just they thought it was bullshit. they had know real idea what was bullshit in the first place.

aspiration seems well educated on his opinions.
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Old 18th September 2001, 00:31   #345
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Thanks ROACH. I appreciate it...
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Old 18th September 2001, 00:38   #346
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Good evening, Mr. Aspiration

As a Canadian and an Albertan, let me assure you that the general feeling in Canada is the same as many Americans hold. I do not want to speak for everybody, but our Prime Minister has said we will stand shoulder to shoulder with the Americans.

As for the people who do not want to face this enemy and terrorism in general, please leave now, go hide in a cave somewhere. By your declaration you bring shame to us Canadians. But be assured that your safety will not be guaranteed here or anywhere else until this monster has been defeated.

Winston Churchill did not promise his people riches and prosperity and neither can I. Many more people might suffer from the effects of this war, which will be fought different from any war there has been in the past.

It would be really nice of Mr. Bin Laden to turn himself in at the nearest US embassy, so all this nastiness would go away, but I am afraid he will not do that and somebody will have to go in and get him to bring him to justice.

All the talk about WW3 is utter nonsense, we are not fighting other countries, we are fighting individuals who prey on the innocent.

What is damaging is the attitude I have seen from a lot of people, summed up in this editorial by a great Canadian:

http://64.12.38.241/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60015

The United States and Canada are free and open societies. Our way of life will be maintained.
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Old 18th September 2001, 00:39   #347
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Let me REstate my thoughts on this topic for those who failed to catch it in one of the many threads related to this:

Quote:
From ElChevelle's head
As in many confrontational situations, people talk alot louder than anything they are actually willing to act on. While some of these talkers may say we should nuke any country that is mostly desert, I really doubt they would have the morals to push the button themselves. America as a nation has never targeted civilians. Political and military leaders, structures, and military bases are always the targets. If we truly targeted civilians, we would be terrorists also.
I have faith in our political/military structure to use the proper amount of force to bring the perpetrators to justice but if military force is used, may collateral damage to civilians be minimal. If civilians are injured or killed, my hearts will go out to them and their families just the same as to those who've already been affected by this.
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Old 18th September 2001, 01:20   #348
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one concern i have is that we will stop after finding the parties responsible.
bush just signed us up as the terrorist police of the world, we had better wear that badge proud and big
or face some of the same attacks.

i think one good reason so many countries are coming to are allies is they as we are tired of dealing with this type of thing but dont want to start something they cant finish or will kill more of their people.

just a thought that went thru my head any comments?
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Old 18th September 2001, 01:43   #349
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also i wonder what your opinions are on the review of the cia not being able to hire assassins to take out government leaders, wich people say have questionable human rights background.

i feel that if we are going to hire people we should hire people from are own country who are of our military (or something like) and are honored in their rights of being humanitarians.

basically if we are going to have assassins i feel they should be trained and of a group like the rangers or seals but a new type of group maybe not military but cia forced trained and governed.
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Old 18th September 2001, 02:02   #350
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Re: Good evening, Mr. Aspiration

Quote:
Originally posted by wildrose-wally

As for the people who do not want to face this enemy and terrorism in general, please leave now, go hide in a cave somewhere. By your declaration you bring shame to us Canadians. But be assured that your safety will not be guaranteed here or anywhere else until this monster has been defeated.

Well said wally...well said.
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Old 18th September 2001, 02:23   #351
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
"America as a nation has never targeted civilians."
Actually, I wish this was true...but, alas, it is not. Please understand that these examples are right off the top of my head; I'm sure there are others that I'm leaving out. But for sure we have targeted civilians expressly in our incindiary attacks on Dresden and Tokyo. We killed damn near everyone in those cities...the destruction was especially brutal in Tokyo where almost every building was made of wood.

Also, in researching a term paper in undergrad I was shocked to learn that Heroshima was picked as the first target for an atomic bomb in order to inflict the most possible military AND CIVILIAN casualties. One of the deciding factors stated in the basis for their decision was that nearly all of the workers at the naval plant lived right next to the plant. So they would not only take out the plant, but the civilian workers as well. It's not a discovery that made me very proud. But I must say that there were many atrocities in WW2--the Blitz (Germany's incessant and random bombing of London's civilian population), Japanese atrocities upon civilians in China, and, of course, the Holocaust. And this is not nearly an exhaustive list; I'm sure there are many that either I'm forgetting or I don't know about.

What we are discussing here is not that type of action. Weapons and technology have changed, and that has consequently changed the face of warfare. I agree with whoever said earlier that this is no WW3. People will most certainly die on both sides, a fact that bothers me tremendously. But we will not mindlessly target civilians and wipe out entire cities. We will try to destroy the groups of people who perpetrated last week's abomination, which I might add disturbed me more than anything else I have ever seen in my entire life, and likely will ever see--hopefully.
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Old 18th September 2001, 02:26   #352
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I want to be...
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Old 18th September 2001, 02:28   #353
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Member...woohoo!

(Please excuse my indulgence...I am a bit excited since I was demoted back to a Junior Member b/c of the recent status changes. Speaking of which, why am I not like a llama apprentice or whatever?)
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Old 18th September 2001, 03:21   #354
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aspiration

...Is it noble in Canada to run like a coward?


actually it's noble in Canada to not have a war in the first place

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Old 18th September 2001, 03:33   #355
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Here's something to fear:
Ex-Senator Gary Hart today talking of his involvement months ago to get a panel started to prevent airline hijackings ala missile with peanuts. He also noted that future terroristic predictions include chemo/bio/nucleo attacks on Denver and St. Louis.

Ex-FAA official who tried to warn the FAA that security needed to be stiffened in light of no hijackings at all in the past 5 years. Lack of such led to no exploitation and lax of security in this area. He submitted an official letter to the Senate stating that the U.S. is under extreme danger of hijackings used to kill civilians.........3 weeks ago.

BTW, for "aspiration"'s benefit, I was speaking of modern American policy.
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Old 18th September 2001, 04:08   #356
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I've read the exhaustive repetoire swinging back in forth and felt I must state my own little story for the benefit of those that may be reading that are like minded in reference to Sax.

I served 4 Years in the United States Air Force as a Combat Controller and in the situation I am eagerly awaiting a phone call so that I may have a chance at helping to stop madness at its very core. My hurt and anger at what could have been my anyone of my family makes me wish to enact the same kind of destruction upon those responsible. Even though I may have loved ones here that care deeply for me, I would gladly lay down my life in sacrifice of the lives of countless more on the world front. I harbor within me a belief of keeping faith and security at your door. Whether your canadian, dutch, french or south african, not one person deserves this kind of threat against them. For the pursuit of your right to say you are against war or militant actions is the exacting reason for the United States uninimous decision to do something about this.

We are not only looking out for our own asses but, those of countless other nations that wish to have the same basic freedoms that we do. We my friend are willing to lay down all for a simple thought, of which you just do not understand. I forgive you that, and I forgive your wish that if you were called to fight, you'd run away and hide. Its after all a scary thing to fight for someone else knowing that the situation will most likely end in your demise. Its quite alright that you and others would choose not to fight, as this isn't the measure of whether your right or wrong. This is just something that has to happen regardless of the varied beliefs surrounding it. My religion says that murder itself is the worst that you can do and that I would suffer hell even if I carried it out. My soul would fight this battle for you and those like you today, tomorrow and the next until it is seen that you have the freedom to work 27 Stories up in a high rise building without the fear that multiple airliners will hit them.

Sincerely,

Revrick
A Very Proud Citizen of the United States of America
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Old 18th September 2001, 04:30   #357
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aspiration
Is it noble in Canada to run like a coward?
No. Is it impressive in your country to post like an ass?
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Old 18th September 2001, 05:11   #358
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add ass to the list of things that people outside the U.S. call the citizens of the US.
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Old 18th September 2001, 05:19   #359
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I don't call Americans asses. I call asses asses. Don't get mixed up there
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Old 18th September 2001, 05:33   #360
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at least being an ass you know what to expect...???
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