Old 8th September 2010, 14:49   #1
Crytiqal
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Set a fixed delay for listeners

Hey everyone,

I always wanted to use SHOUTcast as a broadcast for live matches for games.

Offcourse, it is not possible for spectators of such games to actually be in the match server itself, but they have to view the match in a different so-called TV-relay server.

To prevent them handing out vital information to the players (via different message programs) the TV-relay has a set delay of 90 seconds.

To my big regret, I cannot seem to find a function in the radio broadcast to also specifiy a fixed delay. Having the shoutcaster on the TV-relay server together with the spectators will cause a 30 second delay from the radio to the viewers, so that is no good. The shoutcaster should be on the live match server itself, and his radio broadcast should be synchronized with the TV-relay server. So the broadcast itself should also have a 90 second delay. (This is much the same as synchronizing a real radio broadcast of a commentator from a football match with the TV).

Is there any way of doing this? Or are there any plugins that are capable of doing so?
If not, this is a huge feature request for SHOUTcast.
Any help will be appreciated.

Greetings,
Crytiqal
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Old 9th September 2010, 00:27   #2
methecooldude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crytiqal View Post

Is there any way of doing this? Or are there any plugins that are capable of doing so?
If not, this is a huge feature request for SHOUTcast.
Any help will be appreciated.
Welcome to the forums,

I'm sure I saw something in sc_trans that could do that... I'll get back to you
EDIT: Sorry, it was the metadata that could be delayed. although there is "timeshift?t=# - applies time shift to audio. Experimental" which is a admin weblet (accessed via the browser) command
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Old 9th September 2010, 12:56   #3
Nick@ss
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You will not be able to do this as it takes longer to get from A to Z than it does A - B and thats the way of the world.

you can adjust the buffer but this doesn't have any effect on delay.
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Old 10th September 2010, 00:01   #4
Crytiqal
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I am not quite sure I understand what u mean Nick@ss.

I just want the server to store the shoutcasters uploaded data for 90 seconds, before broadcasting it to all the listeners. Is this not possible? I am trying to set up a beta 2 svr now, cause I saw a command that said:

; - buffer size in seconds if buffer is adaptive
; Default = 1
adaptivebuffersize=1

Wouldn't this be able to make the server buffer for 90 seconds, thus creating a broadcasting delay for the listeners?

As example, "adaptivebuffersize=90"

Greetings,
Crytiqal

PS: I am unable to test it for now, cause I get some weird errors trying to set this beta 2 srv up :/.
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Old 10th September 2010, 00:17   #5
jaromanda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crytiqal View Post
I am not quite sure I understand what u mean Nick@ss.
Pretty simple

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick@ss View Post
you can adjust the buffer but this doesn't have any effect on delay.
It's a "NO, you can not do what you want"

I can think of a way ... but not with shoutcast server/trans/dsp, nor is it anything that exists at the moment ... if you're a coder you could do it in a heartbeat

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 10th September 2010, 10:31   #6
Crytiqal
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I was pointing out to his A-Z and A-B example, since I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

As far as I know, shoutcaster is A, the streamserver is B and the listeners are Z, which is the correct order in the timeline.

What does this buffer command I refered to do then?

; - buffer size in seconds if buffer is adaptive
; Default = 1
adaptivebuffersize=1

If this is not setting a delay, what does it do then?
It would mean that the radio will broadcast, even if the buffer isnt fully filled (90 secs)?
What's the use in that?
Will this feature be added in a future release then? Cause it's something that is really usefull.

Maybe someone could help clarify what the timeshift command, that methecooldude pointed out, is for?
(Thanks for taking the time to search for that methecooldude)
Anything that could help me set this delay up.

Maybe even point me in a direction of a broadcasting program that does support this feature?

Last edited by Crytiqal; 10th September 2010 at 11:17.
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Old 10th September 2010, 13:42   #7
Crytiqal
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In responds to Nick@ss,

maybe I understand what you were saying if you thought I didn't want the radio to have a delay and be live with the TV. But I want a delay (the same delay as the relay TV has) to match audio coming from the radio, with the delayed video.

I was hoping this was possible with the new version 2?

Greetings,
Crytiqal
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Old 10th September 2010, 14:16   #8
dotme
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Trying to synchronize separate audio and video feeds is near-impossible unless you combine them and send one feed that contains both the video and the audio to a server.

The delay in audio has several factors. Bitrate, shoutcast server buffer, and - the one you can't control - player buffer

The buffer size of the player varies depending on which player is used. To see what I mean, fire up Winamp and iTunes and listen to the same shoutcast feed. They're not synchonized. Winamp and iTunes also allow the end user to change the buffer size, resulting in even more unpredictable delays.

Bottom line - If you want to synchronize audio and video, then send a video stream with sound.
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Old 10th September 2010, 15:57   #9
Crytiqal
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Well, I could always let people use my own flash player embeded on my website which controls the client buffer. A small synchronation error is acceptable, just as close as possible to my desired 90 seconds.

But the bitrate and serverbuffer I do control, so you know how to set this up?

I am really just looking for an answer to set a delay of 90 seconds before the server streams it to the clients.

Thanks in advance,
Crytiqal
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Old 10th September 2010, 18:27   #10
dotme
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Try streaming 24k or 32k mono audio to shoutcast. You'll get pretty close to a 90 second delay with that low of a bitrate in most players, and if it's talk and not music, sound will be ok.
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Old 11th September 2010, 00:38   #11
jaromanda
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Try streaming 24k or 32k mono audio to shoutcast. You'll get pretty close to a 90 second delay with that low of a bitrate in most players, and if it's talk and not music, sound will be ok.
I used to stream 24k aac (parametric stereo) stream for "dialup" listeners ... even music is acceptable quality

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 11th September 2010, 09:18   #12
Crytiqal
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The thing is, I can't have the people hearing something the shoutcaster said 3 seconds after it happend.

So how close would the 24k be? 80 seconds? 120 seconds?

I have 3 variables that I can control,

Upstream to the server in kbps, the server buffer in kbps or in seconds, and I can also control the client-side buffer with a flash player I have.
I thought that if you have control over these 3 things you are able to set a good synchronization.

so what I wanted to know is,

; - buffer size in seconds if buffer is adaptive
; Default = 1
adaptivebuffersize=1

Does this keep the server from streaming untill the buffer is filled to 90 seconds when I set it to 90 or wont this work?
(I cannot test it for myself right now cause I am having trouble setting this version 2 to run but a confirmation if this is the case or not would be helpfull)

Greetings,
Crytiqal

Last edited by Crytiqal; 11th September 2010 at 10:21.
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