32 Bit MP3 output resolution

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  • djsolidsnake86
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2004
    • 115

    #16
    well, winamp will always be my audio player, so i wait for this update

    Comment

    • Dawnrazor
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2007
      • 44

      #17
      Originally posted by gaekwad2
      Which supports 32bit playback, and has an snr of more than 144dB?
      Kind of. My Lynx 2b card supports 32 bit playback but has a snr of 117dB. And I haven't heard of any dacs that have that good of snr, and your point is well taken.

      However it is my understanding that the ability to play higher bit files can make a big impact on systems where the volume control is done in the digital domain.

      Comment

      • gaekwad2
        Foorum King
        • Jul 2003
        • 11462

        #18
        Only if you significantly boost the volume at some stage.

        Very complex processing at 24bit might also lead to audible degradation, but that can be easily avoided by using a higher internal resolution (of course a lot of popular Winamp DSPs work at 16bit and at least their users don't seem to mind so take that for what it's worth).

        Comment

        • Dawnrazor
          Junior Member
          • Feb 2007
          • 44

          #19
          Originally posted by gaekwad2
          Only if you significantly boost the volume at some stage.

          Very complex processing at 24bit might also lead to audible degradation, but that can be easily avoided by using a higher internal resolution (of course a lot of popular Winamp DSPs work at 16bit and at least their users don't seem to mind so take that for what it's worth).
          Fair enough. But the people who would really benefit from such capability arent the kind to be running any dsps!

          Since this is the wish list forum. How about a simplified audiophile version that goes for $30 or so that has cue sheet support, native asio (so an upgrade doesnt break things like 5.5 did), a quality upsampler that goes higher than 96k, 32 bit support, play files from ram only, 64 bit volume control, room correction, digital crossovers (thuneau.com already has a dedicated winamp output plugin so maybe you could include it and up the price as that program is $149)etc.

          Strip out all the unneeded stuff like ripping, visualization, portable player integration, mp3 playback, all internet stuff, etc.

          And make it sound better. I know I know, all the players sound the same. But they dont. Listen to some of the pro auditing software like wavelab. I dont know if it is because it plays from memory, but it sounds better than winamp, especially in the soundstage definition. Check out cPlay it also sounds better than winamp, but its gui blows.

          Audio Asylum - Computer Audio Asylum - Music servers and other computer based digital audio technologies.


          Anyhow, there is a market for this and what is missing from the market is a good looking easy to use player that offers great sound. The closest is Sonic studios Amarra that only plays on a mac, uses iTunes as a gui but their own audio engine does the playing. It costs $8000 but that includes the computer and a great multichannel dac too. The closest in the pc realm is Izotope RX which is $1200 but has a lame gui. So maybe charge $100 or so if it really good sounding.

          And if you could make it look like a cdp and work like one it would be even better.

          Comment

          • Spirit Wolfe
            Junior Member
            • Feb 2008
            • 47

            #20
            Originally posted by gaekwad2
            Or just make an output plugin that upsamples everything to 128bit/384khz and then back down to what the system actually supports and be done with it.

            Maybe you could also charge extra for a cryogenically treated version of Winamp (in which the source code prior to compiling was burned to CD-R which was then stored in a freezer for at least 24 hours).
            Somebody DID create a plugin to do just that!

            Goto the plugins and search for the AndrewLabs ATSurround Processor. If your sound card car reproduce it this plugin will do it! Just make surethat you keep the default .dll file set to the out_ds.dll output .dll and it should work fine!

            I have a Creative Labs Fata1ity X-Fi Platinum card w/ 64MB A-RAM and it works flawlessly.
            Inspiration A momentary sensation of stupidity!!!

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            The ORIGINAL Spirit Wolfe

            Comment

            • gaekwad2
              Foorum King
              • Jul 2003
              • 11462

              #21
              Originally posted by DrO
              i'm starting to think it's time we introduce a rule about such claims with relevant proof like they do at the Hydrogen Audio forums...

              -daz

              Comment

              • Dawnrazor
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2007
                • 44

                #22
                Originally posted by gaekwad2
                Originally posted by DrO
                i'm starting to think it's time we introduce a rule about such claims with relevant proof like they do at the Hydrogen Audio forums...

                -daz
                SInce I posted about making winamp sound better and then this was repeated, I suppose this was in response to my post??? If not just ignore that below.

                If one looks at things from a data standpoint, claiming that different players sound differently MUST be met with ridicule I suppose.

                However it is more complicated than data. Every program interacts differently with the processor, drives, memory, etc and that produces different amounts of emi and rfi. SOund cards and even external dacs are effected by this (ok maybe not toslink connections or internet dacs) which can effect the sound.

                I have heard this difference. See, I used to live in an apartment that had no grounded outlets and there was all kind of noise that got into the signal but was not attenuated with it. If you turned the volume down, you could hear how a program sounded through the emi and rfi that was picked up. I can tell you that each program had a very different footprint in those terms.

                Everyone will tell you that putting a dac in such a noisy environment is not a good thing from a sound standpoint, but somehow fail to make the connection of a programs effect on the electrical environment and the possibility that programs could sound different.

                One thing that the better sounding programs have in common is that they play from memory and the drives are turned off which helps the power emi/rfi situation. There have actually been demos between itunes and better sounding programs where it is pretty clear to any listener.

                Vincent Sanders of is always willing to help show this and has done numerous demos, and I think he could prove this much better than I could. Give him a call:

                Comment

                • djsolidsnake86
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 115

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Spirit Wolfe
                  Somebody DID create a plugin to do just that!

                  Goto the plugins and search for the AndrewLabs ATSurround Processor. If your sound card car reproduce it this plugin will do it! Just make surethat you keep the default .dll file set to the out_ds.dll output .dll and it should work fine!

                  I have a Creative Labs Fata1ity X-Fi Platinum card w/ 64MB A-RAM and it works flawlessly.
                  the plugin is outdated

                  Comment

                  • Spirit Wolfe
                    Junior Member
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 47

                    #24
                    What about trying the new free codecs from ffdshow? I got the latest dshow, and other current codecs, from K-Lite Codec Pack 4.7.0, it is a free download and supports surround sound all the way to 7.1.


                    Or the Stereo Tool by Hans Van Zutphen (v3.4 current)?

                    These tools/codecs, once loaded into memory, play from the memory, do they not?
                    Inspiration A momentary sensation of stupidity!!!

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                    The ORIGINAL Spirit Wolfe

                    Comment

                    • djsolidsnake86
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 115

                      #25
                      these plugins are very confusionary

                      Comment

                      • SilverBird775
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 237

                        #26
                        Most likely the moderators are confusing the 32 bit floating point with 32 bit integer. 32 bit integer do endeed have not much sense but float point do have. There is a lot native born floating point formats like mpeg and its derivatives (mp3, ogg, ac3, etcetera), also there is a lot processors with native floating point processing. I'd mind you the mpeg is floating point natively, not 16bit or 24 bit. So how the delayed float to integer conversion can benefit? There is a lot badly coded files around with gain overampified that resulting in wave peaks truncated which is obviousy the distortion. Some advanced floating point processors (i.e. output plugins) are able to safely reduce the master gain by purposefully delayed clamping operation to the selected device's bit depth. For the moment it only works for the 3rd party plugins. The floating point have the sole purpose to delay the clamping thus reducing the losses on the optional postprocessing stage.

                        The widely adopted unofficial winamp API specification do suggest to pass the negative value to hint the floating poing bit depth: -32 or -64
                        Maiko WASAPI output pluginCompatibility adapter for legacy winamp 2.9x (it's best to not use the old software!)

                        Comment

                        • MrSinatra
                          Forum King
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 5899

                          #27
                          i think the vast majority of winamp users have typical hardware, and so anything beyond 16bit won't help them.

                          however, it is widely accepted that recording and mixing things at a higher bit, and then dumbing it down to 16bit/CD, is worthwhile for production purposes.

                          also, if winamp is going to be a true multimedia player, it should be capable of playing things at whatever spec they were created at.

                          so if you have a video or audio file that was produced and put out at 32bit, (or whatever) winamp should strive to support it natively, without "dumbing it down" (assuming the hardware winamp has to access for playback is also capable)
                          PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
                          --
                          BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
                          Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
                          Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing

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