Old 8th May 2014, 18:06   #1
ChiggyChiggy
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How to stop this annoying thing

When winamp loads files into its media library and said songs have a tag field missing, itll use the folder name or some other part of the file's name to fill in the tag, its extremely annoying since it gets them all wrong. Ive looked through Winamp's settings and theres nowhere to disable this >.<

Its extremely annoying because Winamp's tagger will use the messed up data that Winamp has arranged and itll make the tagger get the wrong info for the song

Ive disabled advanced title formatting but nothing, anyone?
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Old 8th May 2014, 18:11   #2
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Preferences -> Media Library -> Local Library -> 'Watch Folders' tab -> Metadata Reading Settings -> Configure -> select "No guessing (title is filename, other fields empty)" and then you'll need to do a library re-scan.
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Old 8th May 2014, 18:24   #3
ChiggyChiggy
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Preferences -> Media Library -> Local Library -> 'Watch Folders' tab -> Metadata Reading Settings -> Configure -> select "No guessing (title is filename, other fields empty)" and then you'll need to do a library re-scan.
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Old 8th May 2014, 18:35   #4
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i should probably move those options to somewhere more obvious as that's buried quite deep (most likely as another tab on the 'local library' preferences).
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Old 8th May 2014, 19:00   #5
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i should probably move those options to somewhere more obvious as that's buried quite deep (most likely as another tab on the 'local library' preferences).
YES, youd be amazed how many people dont sort their albums in separate folders lol, since its the first thing people would notice about their files once theyre in Winamp lol.
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Old 8th May 2014, 19:15   #6
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storing in folders isn't the issue if your files are correctly tagged - it's bad / missing tags which is why Winamp by default tries to do something, but as you've seen it isn't going to work correctly in all cases and just means you need to do more to sort out and organise your files
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Old 8th May 2014, 19:27   #7
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storing in folders isn't the issue if your files are correctly tagged - it's bad / missing tags which is why Winamp by default tries to do something, but as you've seen it isn't going to work correctly in all cases and just means you need to do more to sort out and organise your files
Im working on it xD Hopefully ill be done with them before Winamp's CDDB licensing ends >.>
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Old 8th May 2014, 19:32   #8
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you're assuming that the information coming back from that service is correct (as most of the time i've had to manually edit it since it doesn't match what is on the CD sleeve in front of me).
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Old 8th May 2014, 19:37   #9
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you're assuming that the information coming back from that service is correct (as most of the time i've had to manually edit it since it doesn't match what is on the CD sleeve in front of me).
Hence why ill take so long :P Most of the time that it doesnt get the tags right i have to fill in one or more of the known tags myself then that way the Autotagger knows better what the file is and can do the rest of the fields
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Old 8th May 2014, 23:30   #10
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ok that makes some sense then, using it to help get some of the info and then tidy-up afterwards.

i've just finished making the change for the preferences now so it's now on Preferences -> Media Library -> Local Library -> 'Metadata' tab (which should be a bit easier to find than an unrelated option on the bottom of the Watch Folders page). so good thing you mentioned it so it was at the fore-front of my mind
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Old 9th May 2014, 07:04   #11
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Hi DrO,

There is another group of those metadata reading options. If you select a watch folder and click the "Edit selected" button, they are shown.

Are these in addition to the ones shown when clicking the "Configure" button at the bottom of the current dialog? Does one override the other? I've been selecting no guessing in both areas to be safe.

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Old 9th May 2014, 10:20   #12
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I think they're separate and the ones you've mentioned are watch folder specific, but will check and post back.
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Old 9th May 2014, 11:25   #13
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is as i thought, it's separate of the now moved options and is stored as it's own settings compared to the global action (though the global options will be used subject to what is specified for this action).

so it does the same thing (used as an override of the global options), but as it's in context with that page and what it's doing, there's no need to move it (though it could make sense to have it all on the same page somehow, or at least some of the options to allow for editing things instead of a pop out window).
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Old 9th May 2014, 12:00   #14
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Somehow the user needs to be made aware since these options override the global and some users never click that edit button and then don't know they may have a mismatch.

The defaults for both are the same, but if the global is changed ...

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Old 9th May 2014, 12:05   #15
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that's easily done by adding a message to indicate the defaults are configured on the 'metadata' tab
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Old 9th May 2014, 19:57   #16
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I am confused.

currently, the only options for this are on the watch folders tab, right?

I see a box for configuring, and a way to edit each folder. I mention these as the "two places" in my id3 faq.

which over-rides? the one for each watched folder, right?

so which gets moved to a new metadata tab? the global one, right? and on each tab then, some msg will be necessary to refer to the other place one must be aware of to be properly configured.

I really think the defaults for all should be no guessing. also, on a completely different tab, there is an option to "use artist as AA" (more guessing kind of) and which to me is kind of a pointless option anyway, but I think if it is to remain it should be moved to the metadata tab as well.

so, imo, a new metadata tab would take that option, and the configure box, and be global, but the watch folders could still over-ride if desired; but either area would refer to the other as FYI for the user.

---

something else that imo is problematic is the wording of the prefs, when the user needs to decide if they need to pick "any" or "all." its confusing and it leads to the user picking the wrong option.

meaning, if for instance you truly want to have no guessing, you need to pick "any"

the problem is a lot of users think "all" is the right one to pick, but that then would only apply if in fact all info was missing.

I would just get rid of the choice entirely. meaning, you either use guessing, or you don't. but don't try to configure it based on if "any" metadata is missing, as opposed to "all" metadata is missing. no one needs that distinction, and the way it is now is misleading.

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Old 9th May 2014, 21:28   #17
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currently, the only options for this are on the watch folders tab, right?

I see a box for configuring, and a way to edit each folder. I mention these as the "two places" in my id3 faq.

which over-rides? the one for each watched folder, right?
the ones at the bottom in their own group were moved as they're the global ones. the ones when you use the 'edit' button are the watch folder specific ones which will override the global options as needed _just_ for that specific watch folder.

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so which gets moved to a new metadata tab? the global one, right? and on each tab then, some msg will be necessary to refer to the other place one must be aware of to be properly configured.
only the global ones got moved. on the watch folder specific edit dialog a note was added to the dialog which indicates the preference page to go to for altering the global defaults.


"Use Artist as Album Artist if not available" and "Use Library title information for Playlist Item Formatting" on the first page are both better suited to the new metadata tab which where they will go for the time being.
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Old 9th May 2014, 21:33   #18
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I really think the defaults for all should be no guessing.
I cant agree more with this lol, or if by default it only guesses the song title and artist since most mp3's just have those two fields in the tag field and nothing else (and judging by the new youtube ripping trend, files without any tags at all with just the title plus artist name in the the filename are the new norm)


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something else that imo is problematic is the wording of the prefs, when the user needs to decide if they need to pick "any" or "all." its confusing and it leads to the user picking the wrong option.

the problem is a lot of users think "all" is the right one to pick, but that then would only apply if in fact all info was missing.
This is true D: i recall unticking this checkbox so that it doesnt do any metadata guessing but its effects were different than when i choose to disable guessing completelly (last option in the picture)


Theres also this preference pane , which i use to think was the one that controlled how Winamp read metadata, but never did anything so i used to assume its broken.. now tho im not really sure what it does at all
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Old 9th May 2014, 21:40   #19
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the 'titles' preference page is purely for the playlist editor (or anything that makes use of the default ATF string) and goes all the way back to the 2.x days (probably earlier).

it doesn't relate to the media library (other than via the local library "Use Library title information for Playlist Item Formatting" which is where the ATF will attempt to use library information) where all such options for the library handling are under the media library nodes (unless the preference explicitly says so otherwise).
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Old 9th May 2014, 21:49   #20
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the 'titles' preference page is purely for the playlist editor (or anything that makes use of the default ATF string) and goes all the way back to the 2.x days (probably earlier).

it doesn't relate to the media library (other than via the local library "Use Library title information for Playlist Item Formatting" which is where the ATF will attempt to use library information) where all such options for the library handling are under the media library nodes (unless the preference explicitly says so otherwise).
Ahh, that makes sense now. Wait, does that man Winamp's playlist can show the same categories like the media library does ad not just artist-title? Is that what ATF does? o:
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Old 9th May 2014, 21:50   #21
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correct, it allows you to add and do a lot more than just 'artist - title'. consult the 'atf help' link on the preference page for more details on what can be done (as a starting point).
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Old 9th May 2014, 22:00   #22
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correct, it allows you to add and do a lot more than just 'artist - title'. consult the 'atf help' link on the preference page for more details on what can be done (as a starting point).
Thanks! now i can finally use some of those classic skins that use the playlist window as a media library replacement and i wouldnt be so limited with what the playlist displays xD
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Old 9th May 2014, 22:02   #23
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heh, welcome to 2003
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Old 14th May 2014, 12:58   #24
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something else that imo is problematic is the wording of the prefs, when the user needs to decide if they need to pick "any" or "all." its confusing and it leads to the user picking the wrong option.

meaning, if for instance you truly want to have no guessing, you need to pick "any"

the problem is a lot of users think "all" is the right one to pick, but that then would only apply if in fact all info was missing.
I never populate all the tags a file could contain, so there would always be some metadata missing. I don't even know what Winamp includes in all. Is it just the tags exposed in the Winamp tag editors (which is a subset of what's possible)?

Therefore I select "All" instead of "Any" to keep Winamp from ignoring the metadata that is available and just using the filename for the title. Maybe Winamp will not do this, but from the wording it seems possible.

I only want Winamp to use the metadata available/provided with no guessing, but if none is available/provided it currently causes problems. In some cases, more than just a title is needed. Anyway, this is another reason why I don't put tagless files in my media library database and always include at least the artist and title (and enable the option to use artist when albumartist is not available).

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Old 14th May 2014, 13:58   #25
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I never populate all the tags a file could contain, so there would always be some metadata missing. I don't even know what Winamp includes in all. Is it just the tags exposed in the Winamp tag editors (which is a subset of what's possible)?.......
Here's my analysis, which is not a fact but just my observation:

For "Media Reading Settings" the "Configure" button is beside this statement:
Click "Configure" to modify how title information is read when importing media files.

That seems to imply that the metadata of concern is the metadata used to populate the ATF title.
Therefore, "any" or "all" would refer to whatever fields are used in the ATF string, which is different for every user.

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Old 14th May 2014, 20:52   #26
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Click "Configure" to modify how title information is read when importing media files.
That is an important distinction that I had missed. However, I would still select "All" to alert me to any file without all of the metadata I use in my ATF string. Although the lack of any of this metadata should be obvious and not require substitute info to be used.

The similar option under the "Edit selected" button does not refer to just title info and does not include the "All" or "Any" selection.

Bottom line: how to properly handle these options is confusing for me and the one under the "Edit selected" button is 'hidden' from users who don't use the button.

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Old 14th May 2014, 21:33   #27
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That seems to imply that the metadata of concern is the metadata used to populate the ATF title.
Therefore, "any" or "all" would refer to whatever fields are used in the ATF string, which is different for every user.
yes and no. it only relates to what is done when importing media into the local library (hence being a local library option). however, due to other parts of the player being able to use the library information for ATF for example, then in that case yes it does apply to it. it's a bit of a grey area due to how things blend in what and where the library information is obtained and used.

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That is an important distinction that I had missed. However, I would still select "All" to alert me to any file without all of the metadata I use in my ATF string. Although the lack of any of this metadata should be obvious and not require substitute info to be used.
guessing only applies to the following values: title, artist, album, track# i.e. the minimum that can be gotten away with to be useful when it comes to library usage.

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The similar option under the "Edit selected" button does not refer to just title info and does not include the "All" or "Any" selection.
because that version is better worded than the global one (by not stating anything and only being accessed in context with library imports via the watch folders mechanism). from reading things, having 'title' in the global settings header message is confusing as seems to be coming out from this thread.

so i would go as far as saying changing the wording to "Configure how metadata is read when importing media files." would remove the ambiguity on what the global options are there to do (as well as the preference page it was moved to being about 'Metadata Reading').



though the main thing that i'm seeing coming out of all of this is that it's making it obvious (even if it's annoying) that files being imported are badly / not tagged. since trying to guess was a way to try to make things with the library easier / more consistent with how the devs at the time decided the library should work. i guess the better option would be to attempt to do some sort of fingerprint and lookup on import and 'guess' the metadata that way rather than trying to work it out from the filename (which if it's not tagged correctly, is a poor assumption). though for the time being, the guessing mode is going to be left enabled at it's current default settings.
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Old 14th May 2014, 21:49   #28
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....though the main thing that i'm seeing coming out of all of this is that it's making it obvious (even if it's annoying) that files being imported are badly / not tagged. since trying to guess was a way to try to make things with the library easier / more consistent with how the devs at the time decided the library should work. i guess the better option would be to attempt to do some sort of fingerprint and lookup on import and 'guess' the metadata that way rather than trying to work it out from the filename (which if it's not tagged correctly, is a poor assumption). though for the time being, the guessing mode is going to be left enabled at it's current default settings.
Guessing (using the filename) is the way I use to provide some basic metadata for video files. Maybe there is tagging available for some video formats but it would be a horror show for me to try and put tags into the various video containers and formats.

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Old 14th May 2014, 21:52   #29
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and that is why i don't intend of changing the default behaviour of trying to use guessing as people will add non-tagged media to the library (like videos which can be a pain depending on the format as to what can or cannot be done re: tagging). either way, for those who want to disable it they can and for those who use it, they can use it. just whatever the default is, some people won't like and the silent majority just won't really care
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