Old 9th September 2004, 06:32   #1
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Winamp VS everything

After reading through a number of posts I could'nt help but notice that if its not winamp you immediatly assume its crap.

I don't like other players, to me its rubbish, however I can see its good points. For example winamp supports more audio format(via plugins) than almost any other player.

Deliplayer is probably the only one that supports more, and this is a version of an amiga player(we would expect nothing but the best).

You can immediatly throw out Musicmatch, Realplayer, window Media Player, Music Jukebox etc. Simple because of shear amount of bloat in these programs.

Musicmatch: Used to be decent, now a bloated pig with some unstable features.

Realplayer: Easily the most unstable player I have ever encountered (and I've seen some bad ones).

Window Media Player: After V 6.4, it became more bloated. Not necessarily unstable, but it does plod along on occasion.

But these kind of programs should'nt even be compared to winamp by anyone. Winamp, plays music. rip and burn cds, it does provide access to internet radio, and it playing video.

So let's forget all the all-in-one programs.

That leaves straight music players, such as:

Coolplayer
Pulseplayer
Futureplayer
Deliplayer
C-4
XMplay
VUplayer

To name a few of the better ones.(there's literaly 100's of them)

Coolplayer: skinnable, plays well, compact (under 400kb.)
Not a bad player really, definitely an acquired taste though.

Pulse Player: skinnable, plays very well, small (under 2 Mb), visuals.
More of a mod player than anything else but good support all round.

Futureplayer: A lot like winamp but with less impressive visuals and skin support.

Deliplayer: Skins, visuals, plays and file under the sun.
Excellent program, but a little big for most taste. Though because it uses plug-ins for sound support you can remove what you don't need.

C-4: skinnable, plays very well, compact (under 1Mb I think).
And excellent player with all the features you would expect.

XMplay: plays extremely well, compact (under 200 Kb), visuals.
The best sounding player I have ever used. Beats winamp and Windows Media Player hand down.
Absolutely hopeless playlist though, its functional but only show five files at a time.
It's also the smallest player I have ever seen.
It may also be of interest to note that it supports all visual plugins (although only supports on res at this time).
Even support a generous number of formats, quite impressive.

VUplayer: Plays extremely well, small (under 600 Kb).
Uses the same engine as XMplay for sound, but with a decent playlist size this time. Support the same format, three simple visuals are available.

But everyone knows what it comes down to: individual taste.

Does winamp sound the best of all players available?
No, But it is easily in the top 5. XMplay probably wins this.

Is winamp the best looking player(including skins)?
Yes, more than likely winamp is far in the lead.

Is winamp the smallest and fastest player out there?
Not even close, but the visuals are a reason why.

Winamp looks good and sounds decent, and that's all most people want.

You can't please everyone.
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Old 9th September 2004, 18:39   #2
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I gotta say very well put.
I will look into some of the players mentioned.
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Old 9th September 2004, 18:48   #3
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Bah, you didn't even mention foobar!
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Old 9th September 2004, 19:13   #4
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"How do we change the volume in foobar?"

foobar is light, modular, but it still has to grow. I believe once it reaches 1.0 it could be the base for many good players. But then again it may not. Just my humble opinion which may be wrong

At least it supports unicode
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Old 9th September 2004, 19:13   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by gaekwad2
Bah, you didn't even mention foobar!
lol I agree, foobar and QCD both.

I will say Winamp and it's obscene amount of plugins/plugin developers make it hard to beat.
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Old 9th September 2004, 19:51   #6
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Qcd finished on the second place on my system .

why? most of the plugins you use for winamp can also be installed in this player.

for the rest of the players in this thread ????????
never used them or have an urgent need for them.

Each Thursday a new show on Celtica Radio with Darkwave music.
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WINAMPSHOUTCAST
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Old 9th September 2004, 19:54   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by crackity
...and it's obscene ... plugin developers...
i don't agree with that comment

as for the thread, just use whatever player your happy with and get on with things.

-daz
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Old 9th September 2004, 21:21   #8
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Foobar has been the 2:nd player of my system for six months. I use it mostly for previewing when I don't want to affect my WA libary playcount .

If/When i do listning tests i do them with foobar. If hydrogenaudio.org praises foobars quality it's got to be good.
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Old 9th September 2004, 21:43   #9
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you dont have to add songs to the library to play them.. just add them to the playlist(it also wont count the play-count unless you add it to the library

There is no reset button on life... but the graphics kick ass
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Old 9th September 2004, 22:05   #10
gaekwad2
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and as for sound quality...

But some people just want to believe.

I like foobar for tagz, the replaygain scanner and the masstagger.
And I always keep the player volume at 100% anyway.
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Old 9th September 2004, 22:11   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by electricmime
you dont have to add songs to the library to play them.. just add them to the playlist(it also wont count the play-count unless you add it to the library
LOL, I've used Winamp a since looong time before it had a media libary, so I know that. But I only want to to play libary content in Winamp... go ahead, call me a nutcase!

Quote:
Originally posted by gaekwad2
and as for sound quality...

But some people just want to believe.

I like foobar for tagz, the replaygain scanner and the masstagger.
And I always keep the player volume at 100% anyway.
Well, I didn't know about that FAQ before. I use to believe in what the more serious people on hydrogenaudio say, though.

But it's still Open Source
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Old 9th September 2004, 22:14   #12
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i have used it a long time before the ml too.. but it would suck if you were just using foobar because you didnt know, you nutcase :P

There is no reset button on life... but the graphics kick ass
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Old 10th September 2004, 02:55   #13
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Yes, I tried Quintessential Player, its not bad (unfortunately does'nt like WinME). In fact I used the version that only plays cd's all the time.

Unfortunately I have a self imposed size limit on the programs I use, except for essentials, there are very few programs I use that are over 1 Mb.

Groovy, plays movies quite well does'nt it.

But as I said, I only scratched the surface on the number of players out there. Here's a few others:

- WinMMS: not available for d/l at the mo, seems ok.
- Kjofol: Good sound, good format support, skins etc.
- Soritong: Same as Kjofol.
- Freeamp: Popular alternative to winamp.

WinMMS: dunno much about this, apparantly uses the same engine as XMplay.

Kjofol: Pretty popular player, good in all respects but one, its interaction with windows is hopeless. If I select 5 files and say open, I expect it to open and have 5 files in the playlist, not open five Kjofol windows.

Soritong: Decent all-round, has the same issues with windows as Kjofol unfortunately.

Freeamp: Excellent player this, good format support, lots of different visual modes. Quite nice, pity about the "amp" part of the name really, kinda puts you off.

Others:
- Thunderplayer
- Yamp
- Ultraplayer
- NAD player (the original winamp beater, now defunct)
- Unreal Player
- StormSpinner
- Winplay3
- winJey

To be honest though, the majority of the other players out there don't support enough to really be in the same league the ones listed.

The reason I know all these is because I searched for ages for the perfect player, not the best looking or anything. If I went by what I wanted it to do, I would have had about 20 players, but the one that the feature meshed best on is the one I was after.

Which mean basically I ended up with 3:
- Xmplay
- Winamp
- Winplay3

XMplay won, only on the grounds of being far smaller and faster(what I needed at the time), otherwise winamp would have won easily.

The problem with winamp is intagible. It can look great (different skins), has different output plugins, so it can sound excellent, however it still makes me hate it.

Oh well, one for the ages I suppose.
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Old 10th September 2004, 05:12   #14
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Now you're getting into some other players I like (but never use)

Kjofol, Soritong, QCD, Yahoo Player (it was fun), Unreal Player, Freeamp, SAP (buggy as hell but cool interface), ...sonique1.30.3...

Winamp can be the prettiest or the least bloated (it takes very low cpu and ram when you stream line the thing) and it does internet radio and web tv better than the rest.

Plus its a fully functional audio suite now without bloat. I can think of no other that pulls these many things off so well.

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Old 10th September 2004, 06:36   #15
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Heh, sorry shoulda posted links as well.

Anyway:

Coolplayer - http://www.daansystems.com/coolplayer/
Pulseplayer - site currently down
Futureplayer - http://www.martinwalker.btinternet.co.uk/
Deliplayer - http://www.deliplayer.com/
C-4 - http://www.c4player.com/
XMplay - http://www.un4seen.com
VUplayer - http://www.vuplayer.com
WinMMS - http://www.gameroffice.com/d-winmms.htm
Kjofol - site currently down
Soritong - http://www.sorinara.com/
Freeamp - http://www.freeamp.org/

Thunderplayer -http://www.xxlsoft.com/Home/Thunderplayer_En/thunderplayer_en.htm
Yamp - http://www.aka-online.de/yamp.html
Ultraplayer - http://www.ultraplayer.com/

NAD player - No webpage - File available http://www.pbueche.de/freeware/media_nad.htm
Its interesting to note Nad's mp3 decoder is not based on the Fraunhofer codec, meaning it is far less cpu intensive.

Unreal Player - http://www.internal.co.jp/e/up/
StormSpinner - Unknown - available at http://www.downloads.com
Winplay3 - Unknown - available at http://www.downloads.com

winJey - http://www.winjey.com/
heh, winjey seems to think their players rebellious, maybe on cpu usage, but I don't think that's why.
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Old 10th September 2004, 18:23   #16
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http://www.k-jofol.com/ seems to work here. Site provided by the masterful pimp wildrose-wally.

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Old 11th September 2004, 15:41   #17
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but winamp is the best thing since sliced bread...

Mi nombre es Paco
Me gusta comer el taco
Es bueno para mi!
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Old 11th September 2004, 18:26   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiteflip
http://www.k-jofol.com/ seems to work here. Site provided by the masterful pimp wildrose-wally.
that's not the original site but it is now the current one for those using it since k-jofol is teh sechs

-daz
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Old 12th September 2004, 09:11   #19
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I use Winamp and have no reasons to change. It do the things I want and looks great, just the way I like it. You can check what I mean here!
I also found a player while I was looking for some skins, the SoundPlayer Lilith. It looks nice (in terms of skins) but it's in japanese so is quite useless.

P.S.=>I don't undersatnd japanese neither!

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Old 12th September 2004, 11:36   #20
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foobar is player for computerfreak. normal user cant fin even where to change the volume. prefs diolog is like... idontknow. bullshit

i hope that they wll make a skin or smthng and re-do the UI and stuff for 1.0.
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Old 12th September 2004, 21:46   #21
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winamp has the largest userbase for more plugins and better tech support
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Old 13th September 2004, 05:18   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrO
that's not the original site but it is now the current one for those using it since k-jofol is teh sechs

-daz
Do you think I should advertise the site?
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Old 13th September 2004, 08:38   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by wildrose-wally
Do you think I should advertise the site?
I was looking for K-Jofol for ever and then one day I saw your sig and I have been happy. I got a couple of the skins and some other stuff off your site. You could make it bolder like, "<--- DOWNLOAD THE OL' SKOO K-JOFOL HERE!!!" I don't know how you could advertise it.

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Old 14th September 2004, 10:18   #24
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I did'nt say WINAMP or WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER was crap, just the opposite.

yeah, sorry about XMplay, it seems the latest version is fricken huge on memory usage.

I use an older version XMplay 1.7, much smaller (no winamp visuals in this old version though).
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Old 14th September 2004, 12:35   #25
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Now, another question.
Among these players, are there some that are released under a GPL or BSD-like license ?

Someone here said Foobar2000 was open-source, but as far as I know, only the plugins are really free software (free as in freedom).

Since Winamp seems to have some problems with its future evolution (how many developers left ?) I really would like to find a "real" open-source alternative, because it seems to me that open-sourced softs are the most promising ones in terms of evolutivity and support.
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Old 14th September 2004, 12:56   #26
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Then again when you like a certain player, it eventually get to the point that unless there is something obviously sounding wrong, it will always seem to sound better than anything else.

Which is most likely the case with everyone.

By the way Tadashii, I sent version 1.7 to you.

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Old 14th September 2004, 13:18   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Darius
Now, another question.
Among these players, are there some that are released under a GPL or BSD-like license ?
Zinf (GPL)
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Old 14th September 2004, 14:51   #28
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Go for it gaekwad2, if you want to have a look at some players that are'nt easy to find on the net drop me a line and I'll e-mail them to you.

--------------

As for mediajukebox (have'nt tried it yet), I still can't help but get that feeling that every jukebox program I've tried could be smaller.

Musicmatch started out relatively ok (although it mp3 encoder was absolutely pathetic). But now it is slightly under 10 Mb.

How is this justifyable?. I have seen one prog that can rip in any format and burn cd's, convert formats, edit wavs, and create cd images. This is a single 2 Mb exe. In addition I use a player that is less than 146 Kb in size. Also a single exe.

Using plugins is good stuff, depending how they are used.

There's also the concept that a dedicated program will almost always do it's job better than one that is design to do everything.

Also I noticed some various jukebox use dll, as static libraries. dll's if ever possible should be loaded dynamically when they are required, not at start up. Loading a dll for the fun of it is a waste of time(I won't point a finger at progs that do this, its not nice to point).

The idea of have a fast processor and more ram is so you can do more faster than previously possible, not so you can do more ram and take more time performing the same task.

This does not apply to all programs, there are some genuinely excellent programs out there that deserve a place on everyone comp.

Probably add some more to this later, hehe 3:00 in the morning, time for bed methinks.
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Old 14th September 2004, 19:18   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Darius
Now, another question.
Among these players, are there some that are released under a GPL or BSD-like license ?
wasabi.player ?

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Old 14th September 2004, 20:33   #30
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Hey, I found out something about XMplay.

It seems that it uses around 5-6 Mb of ram, the difference with this player is that before playing it loads the entire song into ram.

This means an 8 Mb song will boost the memory usage to 12 Mb or so. The good thing about this is, that it allows perfect accurate seeking, and no probs moving round the song quickly.

Winamp / Windows Media Player stream the song of the harddrive, only using the current (and a read ahead buffer) at any one time.
(As far as I know anyway).

And as for playing movies, at the moment I use the bog standard mediaplayer 6.4. But moopeg -

http://www.moopeg.com/

is looking especially promising (I quite like sasami2k as well), moopeg is even only 64 Kb in size.
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Old 15th September 2004, 07:37   #31
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I wouldn't like to buffer a 25 minute live recording encoded in --alt-preset standard into RAM...
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Old 15th September 2004, 09:40   #32
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Or a whole album in FLAC.
(single file mode, used by some people)

For video:

Media Player Classic
VLC
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Old 15th September 2004, 14:52   #33
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I don't quite get what you mean nybergh.

What to you want in a player?
As in layout, interface (do you want one window for everything or a seperate one for each main feature).
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Old 15th September 2004, 15:12   #34
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Troll.

DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS
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Old 15th September 2004, 15:32   #35
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@whiteflip: wasabi player is not fully open source :
Quote:
Wasabi is not totally open-source: the core skinning and Maki scripting framework (wasabi.dll) is still closed-source, as it is used in Nullsoft's flagship product Winamp 5. The license for distributing this DLL is still under discussion with Time Warner's legal department, and as such, third-party Wasabi developers have no license to distribute it. The only legitimate way of obtaining this at present is to download an official Nullsoft copy of wasabi.player. Your users must do this as well.
To rephrase: you cannot distribute wasabi.dll with your application without the express written permission of AOL/Time Warner. Wasabidev cannot give you this permission.
Wasabidev are working on a solution to this problem, and as soon as one is made available, we will publish it on this site.
@bits: Winamp can do Full File Buffering too, it's an option in the MPEG audio decoder settings (in_mp3.dll)
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Old 15th September 2004, 16:18   #36
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What I meant is that is completely stupid to cache 50 MB song into RAM only to get rapid profress bar action.
[edit]profress bar... what a stupid typo. PROGRESS bar was off cource what I meant.[/edit]

Last edited by nybergh; 15th September 2004 at 18:32.
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Old 15th September 2004, 16:41   #37
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I'm not sure how we got onto the AAC encoding but it is not going to be as popular as some might think.

AAC has even more copyright crap than MP3 does. MP3 is ancient and it's well known there things it can't do.

AAC is very advanced and would probably be good, however the heavy restrictions are going to kill it.

The MP3 format is dying as we speak, as more and more people and companies change to OGG as the choice of format. There is'nt any commercial full implentation of the AAC encoder currently available so you can't create fully compliant (or fully accurate) files at the moment anyway.

There's a few other issues as well, like the increase in use of lossless encoding, due to faster download rates available. Why download a lossy inferior version of you fave song when you can get the lossless compressed wav perfect version for a little more time.

We'll only see who wins though, when OGG reaches maturity as an encoder. At that time, I can well see it leaving pretty much all lossy encoders for dead(And there'll be a lossless one too).
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Old 15th September 2004, 18:41   #38
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Holy shit, mp3 is not dying! There are tons of hardware player that support nothing but mp3 and only minor brand like iRiver have done any progress towards open formats like OGG Vorbis. I'm waiting for an iRiver player with AAC, AC3, DTS, FLAC and APE support .

What is going to happen is that the new wave of commercial lossy formats including AAC and WMA with DRM crap is going to divide the market and force consumers to make choices: Windows Media Music Store (whatever it's called) or iTunes? Or maybe Sony's new try with their improved Attrac (is it Atrac3+? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATRAC).

MP3 without drm is going to be the basic choice for those people who are bound to hardware and use their wits while OGG is going to be a sub-culture, I'm afraid.

But Mp3 isn't that bad, praise the --alt-presets! Get LAME!!!

I WILL NOT BUY MUSIC IN LOSSY FORMATS. Ok, I have dvds with ac3/dts/mpeg but you know what I mean.

But in something like five years lossless codecs will take over, I hope. This depends on how the codecs will extend their support for high resolution/sample frequencies and multichannel. Wonder how well 8 channel 24/192 channels can be packed nonlossy in relation to the HD capacities in five years?

Last edited by nybergh; 15th September 2004 at 19:00.
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Old 15th September 2004, 19:02   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by bits
AAC has even more copyright crap than MP3 does.
Wrong!
Quote:
There is'nt any commercial full implentation of the AAC encoder currently available so you can't create fully compliant (or fully accurate) files at the moment anyway.
iTunes? Nero? erm, Winamp?
Quote:
We'll only see who wins though, when OGG reaches maturity as an encoder. At that time, I can well see it leaving pretty much all lossy encoders for dead(And there'll be a lossless one too).
Could it be that your info is slightly outdated?

Ogg Vorbis 1.0 was released more than 2 years ago and FLAC has been around for a while as well.
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Old 15th September 2004, 19:06   #40
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gaekwad, why does AAC have less legal patent crap than mp3? (you seem to know these things and besides I'm to lazy to find out on my own)
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