Does anybody remember...

thinktink · 7th June 2014, 18:29

...the name of the filter used to non-destructively convert a stereo digital audio signal to mono? What I mean by "non-destructively" is not to mean to be able to convert it back to the original stereo signal but a conversion to mono that prevents the typical signal attenuation you get when you just use a simple mean(average) algorithm ((L+R)/2).

Widdykats · 7th June 2014, 21:38

^ uh..no.....

swingdjted · 12th June 2014, 02:28

Do it physically. (wait a sec, perhaps I should have reworded that...)

Just get your left and right wires, and twist together your two positives, and twist together your two negatives, then connect to your speaker or recording input or whatever you're using.

Instant mono. Cheap. Effective. Lossless.

thinktink · 12th June 2014, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by swingdjted

Just get your left and right wires, and twist together your two positives, and twist together your two negatives, then connect to your speaker or recording input or whatever you're using.

Sorry:

Does the same thing as (L+R)/2 and still causes signal attenuation.
Won't work as I need to put it in a Winamp plugin (kinda hard to take apart everybody's computer around the world and split/splice the "wires" in their soundcards.

swingdjted · 12th June 2014, 22:54

It would be interesting to travel the world with some wire splicing tools.

I guess I don't know what is meant by "signal attenuation".

thunderhayes · 13th June 2014, 06:08

Isn't that signal attenuation needed to prevent [further] clipping/distortion from happening?

Also, Winamp has an option built in in the main playback options page to "Force mono". I just turned it on for a check, don't hear any noticeable volume loss happening.

swingdjted · 19th June 2014, 01:06

I tried it too after reading the above post.

Funny thing happened.

Although like you, I didn't notice any volume loss (or quality loss for that matter), and I also noticed that it's still playing in stereo! Songs with obvious left-only or right-only sound are still playing that way!

For example, I played Lenny Kravitz's song "American Woman". This song keeps a guitar solo on right channel only beginning at about one minute and 33 seconds in. Left channel has only a faint hint of the solo going on, whereas right channel has the solo loud and clear as if the performer is right next to you on the right.

The above description of sound remains consistent whether you have "force mono" checked or not, even if you close the preferences window after making your selection. In other words, checking that box seems (to me at least) to do nothing but leave the sound as-is.

It is my observation that the option simply doesn't work at all and is more or less a placebo.

That's pretty funny if you ask me.

I'm curious to know what else doesn't work!

thunderhayes · 19th June 2014, 11:09

Funny, "force mono" works for me...and I listen in headphones/earplugs mostly.

Just turned it on, played T.N.T. from AC/DC Live...hearing Mal's guitar in middle. Turn it back off, Mal's guitar in left, voice, bass, drums middle, Angus right....just as on the CD.

thunderhayes · 20th June 2014, 09:54

Adding to my previous comment, upgraded from 5.66 to 5.666 (3516, the link provided on this forum) and did the plugin upgrades and such. "Force Mono" doesn't work anymore...weird.

EDIT: Okay, kinda works. It works on mp3, but not WAV.

swingdjted · 20th June 2014, 19:25

I never thought to check the file type. The example I used was a wma file. I don't have many of those, most of the collection is flac or other lossless format. I put in another version of the same song (the old Guess Who 1970 version), which is mp3 format on my computer, and "force mono" still doesn't work. On this version of the song, the drums are on left, guitar on right, and bass and vocal both sides, whether you use "force mono" or not.

thunderhayes · 21st June 2014, 08:20

I suppose bringing this odd behavior to the attention of the devs would be good, just to have it on their radar and things to be making better. I know mono isn't a big deal for most people (unless they are diehard Beatles fans), but for some people who are either deaf in one ear or are using Winamp to play music through a mono setup (PA system, custom house sound setup, etc) are able to benefit strongly from it.

7th June 2014, 18:29	#1
thinktink Forum King Join Date: May 2009 Location: On the streets of Kings County, CA. Posts: 3,028	Does anybody remember... ...the name of the filter used to non-destructively convert a stereo digital audio signal to mono? What I mean by "non-destructively" is not to mean to be able to convert it back to the original stereo signal but a conversion to mono that prevents the typical signal attenuation you get when you just use a simple mean(average) algorithm ((L+R)/2). \| Opus Audio Codec plugins 2.0 \| Embedded Album Art \| DiskWrite \| \| Save your playlist first! \| Live voice-over \| X-Fade 2.2 \| \| More of my stuff... \|

7th June 2014, 21:38	#2
Widdykats The Forum Slut Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A place that invites a post pumping whore from NY Posts: 15,789	^ uh..no..... Ooh, Gabardine

12th June 2014, 02:28	#3
swingdjted DRINK BEER NOW (Forum King) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern West Virginia Posts: 10,057	Do it physically. (wait a sec, perhaps I should have reworded that...) Just get your left and right wires, and twist together your two positives, and twist together your two negatives, then connect to your speaker or recording input or whatever you're using. Instant mono. Cheap. Effective. Lossless. Don't forget to live before you die.

12th June 2014, 22:54	#5
swingdjted DRINK BEER NOW (Forum King) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern West Virginia Posts: 10,057	It would be interesting to travel the world with some wire splicing tools. I guess I don't know what is meant by "signal attenuation". Don't forget to live before you die.

19th June 2014, 01:06	#7
swingdjted DRINK BEER NOW (Forum King) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern West Virginia Posts: 10,057	I tried it too after reading the above post. Funny thing happened. Although like you, I didn't notice any volume loss (or quality loss for that matter), and I also noticed that it's still playing in stereo! Songs with obvious left-only or right-only sound are still playing that way! For example, I played Lenny Kravitz's song "American Woman". This song keeps a guitar solo on right channel only beginning at about one minute and 33 seconds in. Left channel has only a faint hint of the solo going on, whereas right channel has the solo loud and clear as if the performer is right next to you on the right. The above description of sound remains consistent whether you have "force mono" checked or not, even if you close the preferences window after making your selection. In other words, checking that box seems (to me at least) to do nothing but leave the sound as-is. It is my observation that the option simply doesn't work at all and is more or less a placebo. That's pretty funny if you ask me. I'm curious to know what else doesn't work! Don't forget to live before you die.

13th June 2014, 06:08	#6
thunderhayes Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 26	Isn't that signal attenuation needed to prevent [further] clipping/distortion from happening? Also, Winamp has an option built in in the main playback options page to "Force mono". I just turned it on for a check, don't hear any noticeable volume loss happening.

19th June 2014, 11:09	#8
thunderhayes Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 26	Funny, "force mono" works for me...and I listen in headphones/earplugs mostly. Just turned it on, played T.N.T. from AC/DC Live...hearing Mal's guitar in middle. Turn it back off, Mal's guitar in left, voice, bass, drums middle, Angus right....just as on the CD.

20th June 2014, 09:54	#9
thunderhayes Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 26	Adding to my previous comment, upgraded from 5.66 to 5.666 (3516, the link provided on this forum) and did the plugin upgrades and such. "Force Mono" doesn't work anymore...weird. EDIT: Okay, kinda works. It works on mp3, but not WAV.

20th June 2014, 19:25	#10
swingdjted DRINK BEER NOW (Forum King) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern West Virginia Posts: 10,057	I never thought to check the file type. The example I used was a wma file. I don't have many of those, most of the collection is flac or other lossless format. I put in another version of the same song (the old Guess Who 1970 version), which is mp3 format on my computer, and "force mono" still doesn't work. On this version of the song, the drums are on left, guitar on right, and bass and vocal both sides, whether you use "force mono" or not. Don't forget to live before you die.

21st June 2014, 08:20	#11
thunderhayes Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 26	I suppose bringing this odd behavior to the attention of the devs would be good, just to have it on their radar and things to be making better. I know mono isn't a big deal for most people (unless they are diehard Beatles fans), but for some people who are either deaf in one ear or are using Winamp to play music through a mono setup (PA system, custom house sound setup, etc) are able to benefit strongly from it.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode