Old 14th October 2004, 05:54   #1
lmburch
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Reading CD Text: Philips Electronics says ...

that no licensing is required.

In a phone conversation, a "Senior Intellectual Property Counsel" (i.e., a lawyer; in U.S.) for Royal Philips Electronics of the Netherlands has assured me that Philips does *not* require any kind of licensing for reading CD Text.

So there you have it! Proof-positive that the kind souls at Philips are really on the consumers' side! So, go to it, Nullsoft! You are free to enable Winamp to *read* CD Text! with no licensing required!

Well, he did also say that Philips "reserves the right" to require license in the future. Well, what would you expect a lawyer to say! But just because somebody or something "reserves the right" does not determine that he/they/it actually possesses that right, nor is it actually an assertion that that right actually exists. (I'm not asserting that *I* am a legal person, or anything of that nature. I'm not giving legal advice; I'm hypothesizing about legalities.)

On 06-08-2004 on this forum, at http://*******.com/7ytz5, subject "since the dawn of time -- CD-Text", I said "Can someone involved with Winamp elucidate on this controlling supposition that license is required? Or anyone else who really knows, for that matter."

And nobody replied. Nobody!

So I've had to do it myself.

I would disclose the name, addresses, etc., of "Mr. SIP Counsel" only to someone connected with Nullsoft, if Nullsoft is interested in that info. Does Nullsoft have a lawyer? Maybe Nullsoft could sicc 'em on each other.

Larry Burch
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Old 14th October 2004, 06:39   #2
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I doubt if it's anything to do with not requiring a licence, but more to do with:
1) Gracenote cddb agreement
2) there is currently no winamp dev team

:/
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Old 15th October 2004, 05:54   #3
lmburch
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But, DJ, I think that "more to do with: 1) Gracenote cddb agreement" is really a lot like saying "can't because [some kind of] licensing is required", which I have effectively contra-indicated. Can you, or anyone, offer any basis for that supposition? It has been proffered numerous times over the last few years, always without any justification. WHY IN THE WORLD would Gracenote have ANYthing to say about anything like reading CD Text?
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Old 15th October 2004, 17:01   #4
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Because winamp has licensed gracenote cddb, and by getting something else, well that can basically piss gracenote off.

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Old 15th October 2004, 20:47   #5
lmburch
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I should have said, "Can you, or anyone, offer any basis for that supposition OTHER THAN CONJECTURE?"

Basing a supposition on another supposition may be important in some circles, but in many cases it leads to circularity of reasoning.

If we could get this straightened out, then maybe we could [need to think of something with the word "square" in it....]
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Old 15th October 2004, 22:05   #6
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even if there were no licensing for gracenote and they were free to do whatever they want, you still have to deal with the fact that there are no developers atm

and even if there were, this wouldnt be very high on their priorities, that is if they could do it without breaking their contract with gracenote

There is no reset button on life... but the graphics kick ass
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Old 20th October 2004, 10:25   #7
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CDDB is based off of a user database. but what if you create your own mixes and stuff with say Nero which supports the creation of your own CD TEXT. my car Stereo Reads CD TEXT. Most DVD players read CD Text or atleast 8 characters of it. And i have found 2 software cd player programs that will read Cd TEXT one with the Source Code available for Download. so i dont see any reason why Cd TEXT shouldn't be allowed to be read through winamp. It would make winamp be so much better than it already is.

Check this site out if you dont believe me...

http://www.xs4all.nl/~hneel/software.htm

that has the cd player and source code for reading Cd Text as well as the unoffical FAQ on CD TEXT.
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Old 20th October 2004, 10:31   #8
drewbar
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpiderTECH
so i dont see any reason why Cd TEXT shouldn't be allowed to be read through winamp.
Quote:
1) Gracenote cddb agreement
2) there is currently no winamp dev team

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Old 20th October 2004, 11:15   #9
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Plugins man, plugins. check out the Input section and look at how many different plugins there are for winamp so it can read different formats of music, as well as cddb and freedb. Theres even a plugin on there that does the same thing as Nullsofts CD Reader Plugin.
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Old 20th October 2004, 14:41   #10
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Then make a plugin...

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Old 20th October 2004, 17:17   #11
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Originally posted by sanosuke
Then make a plugin...
hehehe, was going to say that Nullsoft never have gone for doing it all themselves (hence a plugin design for the player and also AOL ownership sort of forced certain ways upon it)

-daz
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Old 21st October 2004, 06:28   #12
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What's this about "AOL ownership"?

You're striking fear into my heart. I remove (vigorously!) anything relating to AOL that I find on my TC. (I'm pretending that Netscape is still an independent entity.)

I have not been able to find, in the archives, anything about CDDB prohibiting CD-Text that was even as solid as the CONJECTURE that Philips required some sort of licensing. And (just as a reminder) I obtained a denial (verbal only, of cource, and thus seocond-hand info to this forum) straight from Philips that sinks that working assumption.

If Nullsoft actually exists, and if Nullsoft actually has an agreement with Gracenote, then Nullsoft *should* be able to tell us whether *this* conjecture is correct. It has certainly been proffered by numerous majordumes numerous times -- almost as if perhaps they are intentionally trying to *discourage* not only CD-Text itself but also those of us who advocate for its inclusion. "Can't be done ..." "requires licensing" "CDDB won't permit" "nobody uses it" etc.

I've been using the HACP (url'ed by SpiderTECH) for about a year. It's certainly not as good as Winamp (but it's only v1.20) but IT READS CD TEXT so I certainly use it to confirm the CD Text that *I* have typed and burned on *my* CD's (transcribed LP's and cassettes). [SpderTECH, what's the other one you mentioned?]

Is Winamp really an AOL property? I've got to find something else.
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Old 21st October 2004, 06:58   #13
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AOL owns Nullsoft. They have for two to three years now. They have owned Nullsoft since Winamp 2.65ish. Who do you think pays the bills for all this swanky stuff?

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Old 21st October 2004, 07:11   #14
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Although I too use HACP most of the time for CD TEXT. I found this other one while cruising the same site mentioned above. if you look for the source code that is available they mention the Unofficial FAQ for CD TEXT. Anway blah blah if you continue youll find a link to some Plextor site that HTML no longer exhists but the FTP file does which the exact link is...

http://www.plextor.be/download/ftp1/cdtplayer.zip

And BTW for the RECORD, AOL SUCKS!!! Did you know that AOL is full of its own AdWARE and SpyWARE. and 9.0(optimized) will not work on Any Win98 machine. I dont know why people dont upgrade to newer computers but for those who dont, you cant get 6.0 or 7.0. And even with that who would use a program (AOL) that takes up 70% of your resources just to do the same thing that Internet Explorer and AIM does.
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Old 21st October 2004, 07:14   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by sanosuke
Then make a plugin...
also in reply to earlier about me making a plugin... I never said i can make a plugin. i was just stating that it can be done with a plugin... and if anyone wants to take a stab it making one, then the source code is available from the HACP website mentioned earlier.
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Old 21st October 2004, 08:24   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by drewbar
AOL owns Nullsoft. They have for two to three years now. They have owned Nullsoft since Winamp 2.65ish. Who do you think pays the bills for all this swanky stuff?
er, it was actually around 1999 when 2.5 was released and Winamp went from shareware to freeware (wow, they made it free, well i'd better still burn my hdd to remove all traces of it )

-daz
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Old 21st October 2004, 08:30   #17
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So, I guessed. Needless to say it has been a WHILE.

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Old 21st October 2004, 08:54   #18
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sorry drewbar, just wanted to clarify for the purpose of the thread funny how as soon as you mention aol people run despite all the winamp forums, servers and to the most part it's existance (and possible demise) is down to them.

/me walks off chuckling at the irony of it all

-daz
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Old 21st October 2004, 10:04   #19
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Well Darren... even though almost ever Nullsoft Dev is now gone, and even though it'll be a LONG time coming (if at all) for any new Winamp release, as long as there are 3rd-party coders like YOU I forsee no possibility of the demise of Winamp.

And you know that too, oh Magical Genie of Winamp Plugins and Enhancement !!!

Don't email or PM me concerning Winamp. Instead, either start a NEW TOPIC or post a REPLY in the appropriate thread in these forums. This will also benefit others who may have a similar question or problem. But before posting, please first Search the forums and read all FAQs and all Sticky threads.

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Old 23rd October 2004, 06:24   #20
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1. So AOL took over Nullsoft just before I obtained a copy of Winamp, something like v2.83. It's difficult to find any mention of AOL on the Winamp website. On some page that I can no longer locate, I clicked on the "TERMS" link at bottom of the page, and it did have references to AOL ownership. But now I only get the "Nullsoft Terms of Use..." on every page (as if they don't want anybody to see it again).

2. The Plextor audio player that SpiderTECH referenced will not initialize on my XP system due to the absence of ASPI. I think I had discovered that once before.

3. Just to emphasize: The downloadable source that SpiderTECH mentioned is just for the "reading CD Text" portion that the HACP developer developed; it's not the source for the whole HACP program.

4. BIG NEWS!: I have (re-)discovered a "CD-Text Manager" at http://cdtext.galleytech.com/MANAGER/FURTHER.HTM wherein the developer ("happymonkey") states: "Please note to use this program with Winamp 2.xx/5.xx use must install a third-party plug-in (must disable in_cdda.dll first) available from http://www.url*****~copah. Winamp 3.xx is not supported." I find that I had downloaded this program last March (and his CD-Text Player; new version was released last month) but had not dared to pursue it. And Copah's webpage http://www.url*****~copah/CDReader.htm indicates a version for "Winamp 2.xx", which might make it usable with 5.xx. I doubt that I would be able to evaluate it sufficiently -- I've never done any Winamp plugins, skins, etc. But I'll probably give it a try this weekend. Anyone else care to join me?
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Old 23rd October 2004, 08:36   #21
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that was an awsome find. I only have two problems with it. the manager and the player available from the site will infact read CD TEXT, which is cool. But for Winamp, you have to Export the CD TEXT using the Manager into CDPLAYER.INI format which again is another Database only its on your PC. Why cant we just be able to read CD TEXT from Winamp like the player and manager can. I dont care if its a third party plugin i just think it would be cool. the other thing is that Winamp 5.05 for some reason wont work on my PC if you disable the in_cdda.dll file. I get an Application error when i do. i even tried to rename the IN_CDREADER.DLL file to in_cdda.dll. I don't know if im doin something wrong or what but if anyone has an answer id apreciate it. but that player and the manager were cool, i wonder why i never found that one.
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Old 23rd October 2004, 08:39   #22
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oh also i just thought id mention something. when i tried to install the CD TEXT manager it keeps on wanting to install some Hp thing found on a Hp Memories Disc. everytime i run it that pops up and when i cancel it, then it loads the manager... anyone else experience this?
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Old 25th October 2004, 05:51   #23
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I'm still running Winamp v5.03a, and did not have any trouble with Copah's plugin. (I also have v2.81, the last version I had installed before going to XP almost two years ago; so my first install must have been maybe something like v2.38, but somebody indicated it wasn't freely available--and AOL property--until v2.5something. And so maybe my memory is somewhat fuzzy.)

I have not had any trouble with the CD Text Manager wanting an HP something. But also I hadn't figured out anything about how it expects itself to interface with Winamp. Even after exporting to cdplayer.ini, I can't figure out how to get that into Winamp. (This method has been mentioned several times in the past, and others have mentioned that it's not acceptable. From the words I quoted from that website, I did not understand that exporting was going to be a requirement.) I've tried with both v5.03 and v2.81; I can't figure out how to coaxe either version to use that file.
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Old 25th October 2004, 08:14   #24
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maybe my computer is just being dumb. i tried everything in winamp 2.91 and it worked fine. basically you use the CD Text Manager to read the CD Text off the CD and then export it to Windows Media Player 9 or Cdplayer.ini format. then using the in_CDReader.dll plugin you would read the CD info from your LocalDB (cdplayer.ini) instead of CDDB. It worked fine for 2.91, but not for 5.05. Its still a hassel... A do-it-all plugin would make it easier
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Old 27th October 2004, 06:08   #25
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As happymonkey replied to me, "... you can export CD-Text to CDPLAYER.INI from CD-Text Manager. Export from CD-Text Manager is only required once for each CD." Not quite what one has been hoping for.

I had to figure out (with happymonkey's coaching) how to configure Copah's plugin: check the box for "use local CDDB (cdplayer.ini)".

CD-Text Manager works for me, in both Winamp v5.03 and v2.81 (the v2.81 display of the text is all upper-cased). I don't know whether the CDPLAYER.INI still (in WinXP) has the 64k size limitation. [Note: The exporting by CD-Text Manager expects both song-title and artist-name fields, and it inserts the word "by" between them. So for my compilation CD, burned with software that does not provide artist-name for each track, the CD...INI contains, e.g., "24=In Dreams -- Roy Orbison by".]

Spidey, it seems that you and I are not making much headway -- everybody else seems to have lost all interest, despite my astounding find that NO LICENSING IS REQUIRED. I'm probably going to lose interest in Winamp, and go with either Hans' or happymonkey's player.
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Old 27th October 2004, 07:48   #26
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Dont get me wrong lmburch. I agree with you totally. And what you found was awsome and something that i have been looking for. I just wish someone would make a plugin that reads CD TEXT. Although i dont know a thing about PC programming i dont see why it would be that hard to make a plugin to do it. The Data is right there on the CD. And if these low budget progammers came up with HACD and the CD TEXT Manager why cant the Winamp Plugin Community give it a try. anyway Hope to see one soon. im out of this post. see you guys in another one sometime.

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Old 7th September 2005, 18:40   #27
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So has anyone tried the new CD-Text plugin yet then?

Alas, it'll cost you 4.99 Euro, but if you want it that badly then I guess it's worth it.


And, apparently, the Sonic Engine which comes with Winamp has the ability to read CD-Text, but I guess it's like I said originally, that the agreement with Gracenote cddb possibly prohibits us from implementing CD-Text support, or clashes in some way, heh.
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Old 2nd March 2006, 00:57   #28
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Would like to see CD-Text implemented as well but paying for a plug in for a freeware piece of software just isn't right somehow.

Guess I'll just use this old simpler player that does support CD text: Digital CD Player for Windows95/98/NT/2000 Revision.1.06. Its old, last update 2004, but it does work.
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