Hotlist 2.25 - out soon, help wanted.

[Magic.X]

Some updates on what's been done:

->Freely sizeable images implemented completely

->External image loading done
Only works for bitmaps, but then again, you should rarely need this feature with tools like auto-screenshot. If someone has a really bad need for jpegs, speak up and I'll add support.

->Checked the transition time slider again
Reviewed the avs sourcecode and found that all is theoretically set correctly, but somehow some windows restrictions apply, so the avs-editor does not check the sliders if its hidden. Added a workaround for this by show and hide the Editor in a split second, you probably won't even notice.

I know it would be so much better to have direct access to those internal variables. Maybe I should mail the avs developement team, provide them with a standard set of message procedures for interoperabillity with external applications and beg them to add those to the next release.

I could also provide my own altered version of AVS, but I guess this wouldnt be appreciated very much.

-Added support for relative paths
This is good if you use multiple systems / os installations and want your preset compilations to work in both

-Added an option to recurse subdirectorys

-The multiselection thing
This is not quite done, as there are lots of dependand functions which i'll have to check again, so no release this time.

@fsk:
The troubel with the image list is that its directly connected to the Listview. So you can only have one active.
I could insert some bad code here to partly use 2 depending on your point of view, but I'd like to have a clean solution, so there's probably no way around writing custom procedures for image holding, drawing etc.

@All:
As soon as the stuff i'm currently still busy with is set and tested, there'd be only the documentation and translation part left before Hotlist is ready for release.

If there's any request for functionality, user interface changes or whatever that I might have overseen or which has not been asked by now please do so now / remind me.

[jheriko]

Originally posted by Magic.X
Yes i know, the images, my old big bad problem. This is the case because the ImagesLists (2, one for small, one for large pics) which are used to feed the Listview are using one big image to keep all the small ones. And there apply some restrictions for the maximum size of one image, defined by windows, which is causing the limitation.

The limit on the size of an image is the amount of memory you have for it. In your case it comes down to some dodgy piece of Delphi, which wasn't made with any serious use in mind. Throw those things out, and do some direct memory work. Windows limit afaik is 4GB of data, and thats only if the programmer makes no attempts to work around that...

Anyway, the point is that the limits are all from using some pre-made class to save time. If you want to do it properly and you have any problems with the theory behind it, you could ask us here... most of us know a ton about graphics stuff.

I am pretty suprised you are finding the image problem hard, considering the level of total hackery involved in many of the other features.

On that point you mentioned there is a 'bug' with the transitions slider, because if its not visible you can't get the value. This isnt so much a bug as how AVS works with its window controls, and your current solution is probably the best that can be done.

However, instead of making your own version of AVS per-se, you could make a go-between dll which would load the real avs dll and run it, but use some go-between functions to initialise interfaces to all the control values. It would be pretty awkward, but it is possible... maybe something for version 3 eh?

[Tuggummi]

Okay, maybe sounding like a total n00b here, but even with shitty bmp's, who would ever need more than 4 GigaBytes of image data?

Unless of course if you're such a idiot you want to include every avs preset ever made in your list. Not that you should make different lists for different occasions or even mood swinsgs, noooo, that would be totally out of the question.

[fsk]

the thing is tugg, that now you cant us much more than 10 mb of data which you can imagine is a real pain in the ass. im used to the presets i have, (that is, i know at leat one preset that imo could follow the last one) so im kinda discuraged to get rid of the old ones.

as to magicks question for features i came up with another one. could you extend the 'pass keyboard shotrcuts' so they would only pass some of them. what i mean is: right now you pass all of them or none but it would be nice if you could pass f1-f12 and 1-0 and shift + 1-0 and 1-0 + ctrl but not others. that way at least for VJing you could get rid of the winamp deafult shortcut thing (not being able to use key configurations that are used by winamp for custom preset things). my 2 cents

[jheriko]

Originally posted by Tuggummi
but even with shitty bmp's, who would ever need more than 4 GigaBytes of image data?

The point I was trying to make is that the limits being faced here are self imposed and due to design or time limitations. i.e. There is no genuine reason for the poor performance and implementation of the pictures. Unless lazy counts.

I don't like when people walk around saying this that or the other limits them... when it doesn't. It misleads others. Which means I should probably point out that that 4GB limit isnt so much a limit as something to be worked around. i.e. its not a hard limit

[Magic.X]

Originally posted by jheriko
Anyway, the point is that the limits are all from using some pre-made class to save time. If you want to do it properly and you have any problems with the theory behind it, you could ask us here... most of us know a ton about graphics stuff.

I am pretty suprised you are finding the image problem hard, considering the level of total hackery involved in many of the other features.

You're right of course.

I was already thinking thinking about some sort of structure i could use as replacement. The "hardness" within is not that i'm not able to do it but that every components fits pretty well into each other with the crumpy premade stuff. Not using one of them means a really bad shitload of work.

By now, the ImageList keeps everything, is linked into the ListView and all i have to control is an Index value.

If I do my own stuff instead, no linking possible, and furthermore, i'll have to write the whole drawing procedures customized to get the ListView to work again like before.

[getting slowly a little offtopic]

I could follow the path and do a customized Listview too, but this again would result in so much root work, it can hardly be done within any apporpriate amount of time.

The most efficient way would be to restart from scratch with C++, but porting a work that has grown for over 5 years is not that easy, even more due to my prior lack of documentation abillitys.

Anyways, you sounded like you want to offer some coding help, so IF you or anyone else than only me really wants to put some work into this project, it would be much easier to do and I would even be willing start of from scratch just for the hell of it.

But as i remember, 2 years ago, I started a sourceforge project, published the code and asked for help on further developement in here.
I got as encouraging answers as "i'm no programmer" or "not interested".

I can even understand theres a certain point not to put more work into some kind of tool for a vis-program that (as most peopel say) is just waiting for a better replacement so it can finally be burried...

So there I am, at the point where I say that i'll improve this as much as possible, as far as the work is not beyond reasonable limits.

I just don't want to work my ass off for nothing, at least not alone.

[back to topic now]

Status for now:
-worked on the documentation, its more than halfway done
-added suport to load and save playlister files
-made the multiselction thing work almost completely, still having some troubles with the multiselected drag & drop algorithm
-found another bug with the silently replaced ape adding code (just concerns the ape-adding tool) which got to be solved

@fsk: You're right, hotkeys will be limited.

More soon, got my Analysis I exam tomorrow

[fsk]

what if you just tried to find the bit of the premade class that causes the limitation and change it?

[jheriko]

if it was in vb or c++ already i would gladly pitch in and help. but i dont think its worth doing a port over :P that and i am working on a ton of stuff already.

tbh i was only interested in the image thing because it seems like it shouldnt be a big deal on the face of it, and because you started blaming windows . but i can understand how inbuilt components can be all intertwined and junk, i just have no experience with delphi.

[Magic.X]

Ok first of all the next pre-release:
http://www.psytrancecamp.de/Hotlist/...t_2.3_pre8.rar

I've set the version number to 2.3, because of the load of new stuff that has been integrated on the given feedback, this version deserves a full step.

Here a list of what has changed:
->Up to 10000 imagers now possible
->Freely sizeable images implemented
->Transition time slider fixed (finally )
->Limited the hotkeys to [ctrl, 0-1, F1-F12]
->Added external image loading
->Added support for relative paths
->Added an option to recurse subdirectorys
->Added the semi done new html documentation
->Added suport to load and save playlister files
->Enabled multiselection

I implemented a workaround for the image thing by unsing an array of Bitmap classes (no direct memory work) to get hold of the images. As mentioned, I had to write the drawing routines cutomized and there might be some bugs hidden in there. Using a prebuild component and add custom drawing though the backdoor is pretty much a pain in the ass and probably not perfectly done, so please check this carefully.
The good thing about this is that hotlist should now be able to hold 10000 images of any size.

Btw, I guess I should make the hotkey limitation optional.

However, there are still some open bugs to be fixed so please watch out for the following:

The multiselected drag & drop algorithm is still not working porpperly, i am using some kind of bubble sort algorithm but to work propperly I need to retrieve the index of the selected images. I dont really know why, but the selction index is somehow not subject to the sorting so its never correct and I will have to do some bad backward counting to solve this. Therefore dont try sorting multiple selected presets at once, it will end up with some presets disappearing and other beeing duplicated. Dunno why delphi (or the windows component)= behaves this way, but no matter what it sucks.

The ape-adding tool is still broken.

Hotkey Bitmaps will not work right now (due to the changed image handling).

As always, have fun with the preview and report your test results and ideas.

Now to the replies:

Originally posted by jheriko
if it was in vb or c++ already...

Don't slap me but isn't VB even crappier than Delphi?

Originally posted by jheriko
tbh i was only interested in the image thing because it seems like it shouldnt be a big deal on the face of it, and because you started blaming windows

I had the fuckin right to blame windows.

See, the ImageList is a very root component of windows, you can look it up in your Win32 SDK. All thats done by Delphi, is linking to the Windows component library and adding supplementive structures, so it can be handled a little nicer and easier for the lazy kind of programmers (like me ).
I reviewed the delphi sourcecode of the vcl and checked carefully if this can be solved by deriving my own class, but the problem really originates in the windows component itself. I guess the main thing is, that the windows programmers never thought someone may pack a load of large images in there, despite, it's onyl designed for thumbnails and icons.
[This should also be the answer to your question fsk]

[Magic.X]

Just an inbetween question: Discovered that it is possible to run avs directly from hotlist and without winamp. This is probably a prue VJ feature and optional, but would it be desired?

[Boktor]

That could be nice, but then the response to the music would be quite minimal. I guess the osciliscope and the spectrum couldn't be used other than as flat lines if you don't have any music input.
Winamp has a linein:// function which is in fact very usefull for vj'ing.

[Magic.X]

Noooooooooo. I probably missed the point.

I implied a standalone avs embedded into hotlist and of course supplied by a seperate soundchannel from line-in or whatever is set to be recorded.

What you understood would be pretty sensless of course.

I think it would be pretty neat to have avs optionally running independ of any player.

But nevetheless, I'll save this for next version, this feature will make it easy to push the limit with the next release...

Honestly, I just have to stop playing araund with new stuff now and stick to the ToDo List or I will never come to an end.
Hopefully the current developement will be done and released soon.

[fsk]

\o/ 10000 images. so glad you could somehow do that.

test resaults:

-when adding new images they arent the same size as the rest of them (i have them set to the 4:3 aspect ratio)
-the imageles listview is seriously borked! it makes hotlist put out endles error messages

this is all i could find wrong so far

the playerles avs sounds great. it would be even better than the limited hotkey passing, because if you klick the avs window that option kinda fails now. i gues youd have to add some replacement for winamps little vis thing because there would be no way to check if the signal is too strong (other than a simple preset, which youd have to put on every now and then).

btw: can you make the titles in the 'small' listwiew aligned left and somehow make the whitespace at the end of the title smaller. right now the white and the text take most of the space on the list.

[Magic.X]

Originally posted by fsk -when adding new images they arent the same size as the rest of them (i have them set to the 4:3 aspect ratio)

Originally posted by fsk -the imageles listview is seriously borked! it makes hotlist put out endles error messages

Already fixed that (saw it too late otherwise it wouldnt have been in the preview).

Originally posted by fsk
btw: can you make the titles in the 'small' listwiew aligned left and somehow make the whitespace at the end of the title smaller. right now the white and the text take most of the space on the list.

Left alignement is already covered.

The whitespace is there because even the larges title will have to fit. Anyways, I'll see if a can do anything about this (word wrapping or so).

Btw, a playerless version would include some kind signal meter of course. But more on this later on, when this version is done.

Another question:
Could anyone (with a non german windows) load a preset into hotlist, delete the preset file manually and then try to load this load this preset with hotlist?

I need a screenshot of the error message, so i can see what's displayed wrong. (Titlebar, Buttons, etc)

[Grandchild]

apart from the reported bugs I found the image resolution fields in the settings a little annoying because of the "max(20,x)" limitation. and since the sliders sometimes skip a number I wanted to change 122 to 120 manually by marking the 2 and pressing 0. this resulted in: 020. maybe clip the number to 20/400 once the field is unmarked or sth.

the close button in the settings should not induce image resizing but rather aborting, or shouldn't it?

the german tooltip says "Liste vorwärtswärts durchlaufen" and in the english version the settings dialogue is entitled "Einstellungen".

a little bar showing the intended placing of the preset while moving the preset in the list would be helpful.

yes, other than that, go for standalone AVS! that would give the touch of revolution to this cool app! [just make sure this WA-blasphemic thread doesn't get deleted ]

GC

[fsk]

title bar: fehler
buttons: ja, nein
the rest is in english

[Magic.X]

Last preview:
http://www.psytrancecamp.de/Hotlist/...t_2.3_pre9.rar

Fixed:
-APE-Adding Tool
-Hotkey Markers
-Borked detail view
-wrong language settings
-left alignement of titles on small images
-cancelling Settings dialog does cancel now

Still to do:
-Substitute standard dialogs with custom ones
(for correct language displaying)
-Multiple Sorting Algorithm
(unbelievable how a plain simple thing can turn out to be a pain in the ass)
-Try to integrate a position bar on moving presets
(not that easy, but would be good to have so I'll experiment some more with this)
-Try to downsize the whitespace on the small image view
(I don't really think this can be done appropriately. As the listview is a windows standard component and has no usefull options for this, I can only try some brute force commands, but this ended up with rather nasty size clippings I could not influence. I'll try to find a soultion but don't get your hopes up)

@fsk:
Thanks for reporting! I probably didnt really get your aspect ratio problem. Tell me again whats wrong or even better send me a screenshot per mail. Stretching should stretch it to no matter which size is set (altered the 4:3 description already) and it does fine over here.

@all:
This will be the last preview so far. I'm finally done with my exams (and hopefully I passed), so now I'll have some time to wipe out the last remaining bugs and complete the docs and rewrite the installer. The next thing out will be the Release Candidate.

As there should not be any major additions to the language packs, you can already start translating them now (the pre9 includes the latest standard).
The only thing which will be added are some strings for the dialogs (like "ok" "cancel" "Error" "information") but those could easily be added afterwards as there's not much context to care about.

Thats it, have fun with the preview.

[jheriko]

Originally posted by Magic.X

Don't slap me but isn't VB even crappier than Delphi?
...
I had the fuckin right to blame windows.

I understand now, that ImageList control is shit. I thought the ImageList you were talking about was something else that came with Delphi :P I forgot it exists in Windows because I rarely use it. But yeah, that thing is terribly made.

IMO VB is better than Delphi because its not related to Borland, I really hate the non-standardness and crashyness of Borland components and such... its just a personal thing. Measuring by 'raw power' i suppose Delphi is a lot better, although I don't really know tbh.


Also, the sorting thing... whats wrong with doing a quicksort? If I am reading right, I think you want to sort a table with columns a1,a2,a3... so that they are sorted by a1, then if a1 is the same for two consecutive 'records' sorting by a2... and so on?

The way i normally do this is with something roughly like this:

code:


bool compareRecords(Record a, Record b)

{

  if (a.a1 > b.a1) return true;

  if (a.a1 < b.a1) return false;

  if (a.a2 > b.a2) return true;

  if (a.a2 < b.a2) return false;

  if (a.a3 > b.a3) return true;

  if (a.a3 < b.a3) return false;

  ...

  return true;

}

Which is then used in a quicksort or whatever sort method... to determine the ordering. Hope it helps...

[Magic.X]

The Algorithm itself is not the deal.

The thing is that I'm (again) forced to work around some insufficient comßponents. While sorting, the Listview is set into Update state, so the interface wont so any shit while sorting. Unfortunately, this is also disabling direct control ov the items to sort. The compoinent will not return the actual postion of selected items but the inital instead. So any attempt to implenment a standard sorting algorithm fails miserably because you can never check selected items for their correct position. I have to implement a backward counting variable to compensate the offset.

I'm currently busy with planning a big party here, so i've been lazy concerning the sorting problem. But I'll care about this soon.

[DummyDDD]

The new preview is hot, the interface seems nicer, it work and I haven't encountered any bugs, but then again I haven't gone hunting for them.

I just have 3 ideas for Hotlist:

1. Having the ability to set the "Windowed performance" of AVS (the CPU cap for AVS). When not VJ'ing, and just working with hotlist and other apps, it can be helpfull to reduce the CPU-usage.

2. It would be nice to be able to set the Hotlist window size. If not by the windows default resizeing, then by setting the size in the settings menu.

3. Currently it seems that when changeing the size of the screenshots, with the "Fix sliders to current Aspect" checked, the aspect ratio is determined everytime you move the sliders. It would be better to store that ratio in a floating point value, when the checkbox becomes checked, that way the aspect ratio won't be altered when moving the slider very low, and then high again (I know it's not that important).

Anyway I updated and attached the danish translation. Oh and I'd love to see that standalone AVS thing you mentioned, it would open new possibilities for AVS.

[Magic.X]

Most of the problems have been solved, yet theres my beloved sorting algorithm left to do.
I also tryed to integrate the position bar, but it seems kinda unstable.

Anyways, just wanted to let you know i'm still working on that.

[Grandchild]

good! I am so waiting for the final version

[Tuggummi]

As promised, Finnish languange pack for hotlist.

I gotta say though, Finnish is not a good languange for computer programs, never has and never will be.

But i guess it's sort of "fun" to have a finnish translation (even if most of finnish folk probably prefer a english version)

If there's any future updates that require changes in the languange file, please contact me via email: tuggummi@jippii.fi

[Magic.X]

Thanks! There'll be few additions as soon as the rc is out.
I hope I'll be done end of this week, currently trying to get the position bar working.

Last week, it came to my mind that i'd also be cool to have a midi mapper integrated, but just a future idea...

[Grandchild]

I just noticed that in the last preview [No 9]one couldn't resize the window anymore, the drag-corner is gone.

and there's no tooltip for the new horizontal-small-pictures-button.

and one minor thing I'd like:
it would be nicer if [in pictures mode] one could unselect a preset, read: click right next to the marked preset into the white void and the blue layer would be gone.
if it's a thing of 5 minutes it would be cool, if it should evolve into a real problem leave it be!

GC

[Magic.X]

Already noticed the drag corner missing, fixed.
Tooltip is going to be there with the next release.

The selction is automatically done by the component. I'll see what i can do.

The positioning really gives me a headache because some of concurrent drawing operations. Its never perfectly drawn / removed.

Heck, i'd like to know wheter this could be done easily (windows explorer has it and uses the same visual object).

[Magic.X]

Took me a while, now its done.

Here is the first Release Candidate:
http://www.psytrancecamp.de/Hotlist/...st_2.3_RC1.rar

I hope i got all bugs out, if so, i'll pack this into an installer.

Unfortunately there've been too much trouble with both the position bar and the second small-images view. Those would just not behave the way I wanted.

I'll keep it in mind for upcoming verions, but right now I just want to get it done.

There've been some tiny additions to the language packs.

Please report me any anomalies you might encounter.

Have fun!

[Grandchild]

So far I've noticed one bug:
When changing lock mode in the big pics view, the pics are huddled up at the top of the window and on top of each other.

I'll be looking further into it, gotta go back to school now.

GC

[Magic.X]

You're right.
Just checked here on a pretty slow and utdated machine.
Have not recognized this as an annoying thing because its only temporarily and happens in a split second on my PC (3200+). I'll check ways to avoid this.

[fsk]

good rc1. besides the problem mentioned by grandchild i didnt notice anything wrong with it.

I gues that by position bar you mean the windowed performance slider?

btw i have thought of another feature. i think its the first one that actualy cant be pulled off. its a save button that would save the preset to its original path. right now its kinda hard to do a quick edit of the preset since you cant always remember where it is:/. But as i said i dont think this is posible.

I gues the thing to focus on for the next version is winamples avs. that would pwn

Thank you again for working on this some more 2.3 is great.

[Magic.X]

Well, yeah editing and saving back is tricky now.

Maybe I'll find a way around, I've some Ideas but nothing that can be done quickly.

Anyways:
http://www.psytrancecamp.de/Hotlist/...st_2.3_RC2.rar

Fixed that uggly bug when lockmode is set or disabled.

I'm waiting for the final language packs now and will take care about the installer in meantime.

[fsk]

Another option idea

Add a random wipe and random push transition option. youd have to code these yourself but i gues it wouldnt be too hard.

some presets work realy well with these two even if you blend them with themselfs. it would be extra nice if they wiped/pushed from diferent sides each time you switch.

[Magic.X]

Yeah, and adding an automized loop-reload function therefore?!

Should be in next release.

Btw, any language-packs finally done yet?

[fsk]

well im not doing a language pack i think im the only slovenian useing it and im too lazy to do it for miself.
(actualy done it for some old version once)

and besides, i hate slovenian windows.

[Magic.X]

Could you do it anyways, please?

[fsk]

i tried doing a quick one but failed. I havent used or seen slovenian windows for a looong time so i dont know all the funny tech terms anymo. fell bad about it cause you put all this work in hotlist and i uased it a lot and now i cant even make a language pack in return:/. the crapy part is i got loads of school work right now so i cant really look in to this.

[Magic.X]

Take your time, I'm currently loaded with tons of stuff to do for university and others, so the installer ready version will have to wait. Also, I want the release to be as complete as possible, not done and out as fast as poss.

Hint in case you fail finding the right symbols: Windows has a tool showing you all charackters of a font, you could use this to copy & paste the missing charackters.

[GDLT]

Hello
I've never used your program, and can't get it to work.
Everything seems to work except fot the pressets i click on,
i've loaded al the standard presets of winamp into your program. The problem is it doesn't mather on wich preset i click it always load the same preset (and refreshes it if i click another preset). Do I something wrong?
installed Hotlist 2.2 2.3RC1 2.3RC2 and AVS 2.81b
(2.2 never had anny communication with AVS including hotkey "forwarding")

Then another thing:
In your newer version you have "Extended AVS Status" this is verry nice because this way i can see the FPS, but this makes it impossible to use AVS editor, because it is continuesly switching to beat detector. Can you sepperate the bpm and fps display status functions?

Thanks in advance

Btw. i'm from the netherlands and will make you a dutch language pack, if "i" get the program to work.

[Nanakiwurkz]

I'm just like you magic x. i have all the time in the world and i waste working one presets. after all i'm a major waste of my own time. send me the plugin at charpoketron@yahoo.com . p.s. i have good experience in beta testing.

[Grandchild]

nanakiwurkz:
this is no plugin, it's an external program to create AVS-preset-playlists.
to beta-test it, click th pic in magic.x' sig and dl the program, install it, then dl http://www.psytrancecamp.de/Hotlist...ist_2.3_RC2.rar , install it, run AVS, run hotlist, test and write found bugs here...

GC