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View Poll Results: Which one is your favorite?
Obama 36 59.02%
McCain 15 24.59%
I don't care 10 16.39%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 4th October 2008, 01:37   #81
skryingbreath
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Quote:
Originally posted by fc*uk
Pics or it didn't happen!
http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/20...laskin_fl.html
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Old 4th October 2008, 04:30   #82
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I wasn't sure how I would vote until Sarah Palin was announced as McCain's running mate.

Her mere existence on the Republican ticket is a kick in the face to the liberal femi-nazis.

I don't like femi-nazis.
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Old 4th October 2008, 06:03   #83
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That's right, try to convince voters using a term popularized by Rush Limbaugh...

/searches for the world's largest igor to insert here...

Palin's mere existence is a kick in the face to anyone that believes you have to be at least somewhat intelligent to become a vice-presidential candidate, although it's a surge of hope to the dunces of the world that thought stupidity wouldn't get them anywhere.

Anyone that couldn't think of a single Supreme Court decision that they disagreed with likely wasn't awake at any time in middle school or high school, let alone college or beyond.

Anyone that couldn't think of a single publication that keeps one in touch with politics surely has been in some form of coma for their entire lives.

Anyone that spews out rehearsed, unrelated ramblings after a specific yes or no question surely needs to let the wound under her nose heal.

Anyone that blames the media for asking the SAME EXACT QUESTIONS to both candidates for being biased against her is surely a sore loser.

Anyone who's party blocks/cancels/prevents ALL INTERVIEWS after a massive fail debate surely is aware of how much of a horrible choice she is for this campaign.

Anyone who calls herself and McCain "mavericks" on the topic of regulating lenders, and then has ABSOLUTELY NO ANSWER and says "I'LL TRY TO FIND YOU SOME AND BRING THEM TO YA" when asked to cite ONLY ONE WAY McCain has voted for regulation rather than the conventional Republican deregulation of lenders proves her to be an all-slogan, no-substance blithering idiot.

Trust me on this one. I have some people that are so far into 'right field' that they're in 'foul territory', and they even acknowledge that Palin was a bad choice for McCain. What on earth was he thinking when he chose her?

















Oh... and...

She never got back to us on that bullshit promise to cite McCain's 'maverick' regulation measures...

Do you think she ever will?

Don't forget to live before you die.

Last edited by swingdjted; 4th October 2008 at 06:39.
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Old 4th October 2008, 07:18   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by swingdjted
Palin's mere existence is a kick in the face to anyone that believes you have to be at least somewhat intelligent to become a vice-presidential candidate
I watched the VP debate and I think she has a pretty good grasp of the issues. One thing she doesn't do well is act like a politician and dodge a question well.

If you asked Biden about quantum physics, he'd give you a paragraph or two. Palin would just tell you she wanted to talk about something else.

I sort of like that about her.
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Old 4th October 2008, 07:48   #85
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We all watched it and we saw she has no grasp of the issues. She's a fucking robot spewing tired slogans. And of course she won't dodge the question, she just outright changes the subject. Well that's not how a debate works, there is supposed to be structure.

Spiral out, my friend. You will find your way back to yourself, we all will.
I'll be waiting, and shall see you on the other side...
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Old 4th October 2008, 09:10   #86
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On the democrat side, we have Junior Senator Obama with little experience and Biden with a lot. On the republican side, we have McCain with a long resume and GOVERNOR Palin with little.... but still more experience than Obama.

Of these candidates, I think Obama and Palin are the ones that I think would make good "horse sense" decisions about the country.

"Sarah Palin is stupid" goes right in the dumpster with chanting "I hate Bush".

Like a far left chant, anyone that doesn't agree with you must be stupid, ignorant, evil or a nazi

I'll probably vote for Obama, but not because I think Palin is stupid or uninformed.

Saturday Night Live is funny though

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80321782353422
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Li...debate/704121/

Last edited by rockouthippie; 4th October 2008 at 09:49.
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Old 4th October 2008, 13:04   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by denkensiefursich
We all watched it and we saw she has no grasp of the issues. She's a fucking robot spewing tired slogans. And of course she won't dodge the question, she just outright changes the subject. Well that's not how a debate works, there is supposed to be structure.
It takes grasp of the issues to notice that though, to someone as ignorant (and proud of it) as her that behaviour will seem more likeable.
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Old 4th October 2008, 14:16   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by fc*uk
Pics or it didn't happen!



Dear god Widdy, that's just downright funny
Thank mew! I really hate her. Aerial hunting?? She's vicious and stupid. Her one on one interviews were an embarassment to our government.
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Old 4th October 2008, 16:11   #89
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You aren't in the Northwest. I am. Game management is necessary. Restrictions here on cougar and bear hunting have led to human fatalities because of overpopulation.

They get hungry and start eating people and domestic animals when they run out of food. If we didn't hunt deer, we'd run over them with our cars all the time. If you'd ever seen a car that hit a deer you'd understand. You're lucky to live.

Alaska game department wants to remove 664 wolves a year out of a population of 11,000 and growing. That will save several thousand caribou and moose. Foot hunting wasn't accomplishing that. It's doubtful that even with the legality of aerial wolf hunting, that there will be enough wolves (664) killed to ensure that moose and caribou populations remain intact.

It's much the same with logging in Oregon. Logging got restricted, but there are actually LESS trees. That's because when you don't log them, they BURN down!

Last edited by rockouthippie; 4th October 2008 at 16:28.
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Old 4th October 2008, 16:28   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
You aren't in the Northwest. I am. Game management is necessary. Restrictions here on cougar and bear hunting have led to human fatalities because of overpopulation.

They get hungry and start eating people and domestic animals when they run out of food. If we didn't hunt deer, we'd run over them with our cars all the time. If you'd ever seen a car that hit a deer you'd understand. You're lucky to live.

Alaska game department wants to remove 664 wolves a year out of a population of 11,000 and growing. That will save several thousand caribou and moose. Foot hunting wasn't accomplishing that. It's doubtful that even with the legality of aerial wolf hunting, that there will be enough wolves (664) killed to ensure that moose and caribou populations remain intact.

It's much the same with logging in Oregon. Logging got restricted, but there are actually LESS trees. That's because when you don't log them, they BURN down.
Shhh. Let's not use reason and logic with democrats. Causes their brains to short circuit. Isn't pretty.

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Old 4th October 2008, 16:32   #91
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Look who's talking.

But just for the sake of it, guess there were no woods in America before the white man came and started logging, right?
And far less moose and caribou either, oh, and let's not forget the buffalo that was almost driven to extinction by rabid treehuggers...

Drilling in a wildlife refuge however doesn't hurt them at all.
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Old 4th October 2008, 16:48   #92
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I'm a democrat, just from an older school.

As far as the trees... around here they were farmed, and the forests which should have been harvested 20-30 years ago have burned instead of being logged.

Where 25 trees would have naturally occurred on an acre, man planted 500. That's what makes the fires here so bad.
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Old 4th October 2008, 16:55   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
I'm a democrat, just of an older school.
Kennedy era democrats = modern republicans.

[edit]Also, weren't you banned or something? I don't recall seeing you around here in a while... Could just be my imagination.[/edit]

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Old 4th October 2008, 17:04   #94
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Originally posted by SSJ4 Gogitta
Kennedy era democrats = modern republicans.
None of these guys, republican or democrat is Jack Kennedy. That's for damn sure.

By today's standards, I am still barely liberal. I'm certainly not one of the right wing kooks or left wing nut jobs that seem so common today. I find Limbaugh about as idiotic as Pelosi

Yeah, banned... unbanned..
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Old 4th October 2008, 17:42   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
It's much the same with logging in Oregon. Logging got restricted, but there are actually LESS trees.
Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
Where 25 trees would have naturally occurred on an acre, man planted 500.
So what were you trying to argue?
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Old 4th October 2008, 18:42   #96
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That despite tree huggers, forest management is better than forest fires. Whacked out left tree huggers (like Clinton) stopped logging and banned fire roads. That didn't make healthy forests, it made FIRES! Instead of lumber... ashes....

If you don't have common sense about forest management with sensible logging practices not conceived in a trendy New York coffee shop...

You get:



That musta made a little global warming

If this had been logged on the Rogue River, there might be some lumber and some trees instead of charcoal!

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Old 4th October 2008, 20:11   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
You aren't in the Northwest. I am. Game management is necessary. Restrictions here on cougar and bear hunting have led to human fatalities because of overpopulation.

They get hungry and start eating people and domestic animals when they run out of food. If we didn't hunt deer, we'd run over them with our cars all the time. If you'd ever seen a car that hit a deer you'd understand. You're lucky to live.

Alaska game department wants to remove 664 wolves a year out of a population of 11,000 and growing. That will save several thousand caribou and moose. Foot hunting wasn't accomplishing that. It's doubtful that even with the legality of aerial wolf hunting, that there will be enough wolves (664) killed to ensure that moose and caribou populations remain intact.

It's much the same with logging in Oregon. Logging got restricted, but there are actually LESS trees. That's because when you don't log them, they BURN down!
Unlike humans, wolves find the weak in the herd. As for rumours that wolves attack people..well..once Polar Bears are going extinct. Palin would like to help that. And Aerial hunting is disgusting.( I'm not nuts about the other kind either, but if you need food...ok) I never had wolf stew...
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Old 4th October 2008, 20:37   #98
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Originally posted by Widdykats
Unlike humans, wolves find the weak in the herd.
So wolves help impose natural selection upon humans? I'm all for that. Take out the slow and stupid ones before they breed.

Then again, if that were a more common occurrence, John McCain would have to find someone else with whom to share his ticket, and the topic of wolf hunting in Alaska would never have come up.

I'm a psychosomatic sister running around without a leash.
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Old 4th October 2008, 20:37   #99
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I agree that blasting anything from an airplane isn't particularly sporting.

Which would you like to have? Caribou, moose and wolves or just wolves? Hungry wolves because they've eaten all the moose, caribou and the poor bastard at the Ottawa dump(from your link).

There are about 20,000 polar bears roaming the Arctic, living off seals and anything else they can hunt down including people.

It's like the Sea Lions here. They were endangered .... 3 or 4 decades ago... now they are everywhere including urban San Francisco. Sea gulls are another protected species. Endangered once, flying rats now.

I don't see Palin as the Antichrist as long as the implementation is intelligent game management. I haven't seen anything that makes me think it isn't.

I'm really leaning toward Obama, but not because of some jibberish about Governor Palin. I want the middle class tax cut! Keeping the Bush tax cut for our richest.... preposterous! Otherwise, I'd probably go with McCain, despite far right rhetoric that you could actually re-criminalize abortions.

Really, I wish we had someone to run the country that was about halfway between our two choices.

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Old 4th October 2008, 21:13   #100
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Wolves and Caribou


Uh, pet Daisy for me!
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Old 4th October 2008, 21:28   #101
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Daisy almost died a few months ago. She's got Canine Autoimmune hemolytic anemia. Basically, she kills her own red blood cells. Medicated, she's pretty normal now, a miracle considering AIHA is 80% lethal. She has to take steroids, so that makes her a little more of a handful. She is right here, so pet accomplished

I don't know what the study you mentioned fits into a game management scenario except that it looks like wolves and humans both like to hunt from a road....hmmm....
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Old 4th October 2008, 21:53   #102
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It's sad to say that both candidates, even the one I will vote for, likely will not do very much "between" work. In that respect, both candidates really do have weaknesses.

I was just in Oregon this past summer (Portland, Seaside, Astoria areas). I saw some fire damage, but the point I need to make is that the fires would have happened regardless of how many trees were there. 25 trees/acre naturally there is quite hard to believe considering how dense the forests are, even in the forests that have never really been altered by humans. The fire damage where I hiked along the Colombia grew back incredibly quickly, as many of the trees, while badly burned, didn't die. Most of the damage in that area I saw was not fire, but windstorm damage from 2 years ago. Perhaps your part of the state was different than that which I visited.

You're right in that I shouldn't call Palin stupid - she's just unbelievably under qualified to be a vice president or president in the case that McCain couldn't serve. If I were republican and believed in the party's platform, I might vote for her to be a mayor of a small to midsize city, but she just doesn't have any grasp of content related to federal or international issues.

As far as Palin having more experience than Obama, here is what they did before their current positions:

Quote:
A graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as president of the Harvard Law Review, Obama worked as a community organizer and practiced as a civil rights attorney before serving in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004. He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004.
The same source (Wikipedia) lists a lot of college hopping and beauty pageants for Palin, finally getting a communications/journalism degree from the University of Idaho. (You'd think that with a degree like that, she'd handle the media a little better...)

Quote:
She was a member of the Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996 and mayor from 1996 to 2002. After an unsuccessful campaign for lieutenant governor of Alaska in 2002, she chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004.
I realize it's silly to compare the presidential candidate on one side to a vice presidential candidate of another, but that's what came up in conversation here, so I figured I'd give it a go.

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Old 4th October 2008, 22:04   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
Daisy almost died a few months ago. She's got Canine Autoimmune hemolytic anemia. Basically, she kills her own red blood cells. Medicated, she's pretty normal now, a miracle considering AIHA is 80% lethal. She has to take steroids, so that makes her a little more of a handful. She is right here, so pet accomplished

I don't know what the study you mentioned fits into a game management scenario except that it looks like wolves and humans both like to hunt from a road....hmmm....
Sorry to hear about Daisy's illness. I hope she will do much better on her meds. (Hang tough, Daisy)
The study showed human impact on Caribou to be more severe.

"BAD BIOLOGY
But opponents of the wolf-kill plan, including conservationists and many wildlife biologists, are outraged at the notion of killing one species to save another. They call the plan a barbaric attempt to control Mother Nature. "It's just poor biology," says wildlife scientist Gordon Haber, who has studied Alaska's wilderness for the last 28 years.

For one thing, says Haber, the state is mistaken in thinking that wolves harm caribou numbers. Like other predators, he says, wolves do not hunt their prey to the brink of extinction. If they did, they would have nothing to eat. Instead, he says, when caribou numbers decrease, wolves respond by breeding less. With fewer wolves around, the caribou rebound--naturally.
Predators can even have a positive effect on their prey, continues Haber. "Predation keeps prey populations well below their habitat limits," the population size their habitat can reasonably support, he says. "So [the prey] don't end up starving," he adds. Disturbing this balance can have disastrous consequences for both predator and prey, he says."
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Old 4th October 2008, 23:10   #104
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Voted for Gore, then voted for Bush but have learned my lesson...it's not so much who you vote for to lead but how much you e-mail your local reps.
The country's in a really bad state right now and to place blame is wrong at this point. It's time to try and help fix it.
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Old 4th October 2008, 23:17   #105
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Since 1972, when the California sea lion came under the provisions of the Marine Mammal Protection Act, its population has rebounded from a low of 50,000 to about 300,000. In fact, today the number of sea lions in the northwest has increased so significantly that their predation on threatened and endangered salmon and steelhead has officials in Oregon, Washington and Idaho concerned for the future viability of these fish populations.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/SeaLion/index.asp

Non-lethal means of removing these sea lions didn't work. Human predation of these salmon have been COMPLETELY STOPPED! Shooting them has been authorized although this is not by using hunters. Oregon government people will do it.

When you see wolves in the dump eating 22 year old guys might there be too many wolves?

Quote:
Originally posted by swingdjted
even in the forests that have never really been altered by humans.
Most of the severe fires have been in Southern Oregon and just about none (or none) of the Astoria and Tillamook county forests are natural. That's the point. Densely packed forests planted with douglas fir by man must be logged or they eventually burn.

The natural forest around here has ash, birch as a mix with the sparce and very flammable douglas fir being a minority of the trees.

In 1933, there were almost no trees left in Northwest Oregon because of the Tillamook burn which by 1933 wasn't a natural forest either. It was a second and third generation man made forest. Planted to be logged. What you were looking at was mostly planted by people until the late 1950's after the burn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillamook_Burn

It wouldn't surprise me much if the whole thing went up like a torch again. It just hasn't happened yet.
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Old 4th October 2008, 23:26   #106
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I just wanna see Palin/Bush even though it's dropped 5 fetises out of it

BTW, Welcome back ROH
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Old 5th October 2008, 02:25   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
The country's in a really bad state right now and to place blame is wrong at this point. It's time to try and help fix it.
Could not agree more.

Parties aside, its time to vote for who is best suited to dig us out of this mess.

Of course, that is really hard to figure out when all the candidates will talk about is how under qualified the other is, how dumb the other is, how unprepared the other is, and that the other person is really only concerned about their "pretty boy" image.

Oh, I forgot: PIGS AND LIPSTICK.

Yet year after year after year, we make these issues the sole reason to elect one bumbling idiot the President over the other.

Downright sad really.
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Old 5th October 2008, 09:54   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by fc*uk
Could not agree more.

Parties aside, its time to vote for who is best suited to dog us out of this mess.

Downright sad really.
Fixed. With lipstick.

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Old 5th October 2008, 13:04   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
it's not so much who you vote for to lead but how much you e-mail your local reps.
The country's in a really bad state right now and to place blame is wrong at this point. It's time to try and help fix it.
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Old 5th October 2008, 13:15   #110
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I dont give a fuc....

Everthing stay the same, the say everthing but after 3 moands nothing change.
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Old 5th October 2008, 16:36   #111
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I think obama will do it.
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Old 5th October 2008, 18:05   #112
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ehm after all, what about Nader/Gonzalez? since the other candidates seem to suck both, what do you know about your nearest alternatives? I only mean, before don't going to election at all...
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Old 5th October 2008, 19:31   #113
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Nader has tunnel vision. He just doesn't seem to have a grasp on most issues; only a few. I'd say the same about Ross Perot.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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Old 5th October 2008, 21:43   #114
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I look at it this way - all politicians are crooked. They all have someone in their back pocket. When you vote you're not only voting for that person but also for their political party, those they are likely to place in important positions and the lobbyists and interests that support them. So vote for those most likely to benefit you.

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Old 5th October 2008, 22:53   #115
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those most likely to benefit you

even if that implies Mission Impending Doom 3?
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Old 7th October 2008, 01:14   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Widdykats
I wish Ross Perot were running.(Condition contrary to fact)
I don't. He was crazy and a racist.
I only say that cause of his economics background; would be nice to have someone with his smarts in charge that can help out economically. And even in the '80s, he predicted that we would hit the financial crisis that we're all facing now. Whoever becomes President needs to get a hold of him for some good advice, cause our country's a mess.

As an American living overseas, I get asked who I'll vote for, with most hoping that I'll vote for Obama. People I know, only see McCain as a Bush zombie, which is not good for international relationships. And I'm reading more and more of foreign articles that are hoping for an Obama victory.
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Old 7th October 2008, 01:28   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShyShy
only see McCain as a Bush zombie, which is not good for international relationships
They never liked us anyway and they are every bit as crooked as we are... big deal.....

It's not just Bush, it's all of the scheming bastards.....

I'm probably going with Obama, but it sure as hell isn't because the Euros like him..
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Old 7th October 2008, 01:41   #118
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From way up above.

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Originally posted by baafie
I agree with two points already made here: the candidates are indistinguishable and the political system is fundamentally flawed (although, in my opinion, it is working the way it was intended to work).

You are guaranteed to see the same kind of politics regardless of who you choose, as long as the system stays the same.

If you think the candidates are indistinguishable and the system is fundamently flawed, I just don't know where to begin. Favor Obama or Favor McCain, but we couldn't have two more polar opposites in terms of temperment, education, experience, world view and plans for our nation's future.

It's uncanny to me to read so many posts full of nihilism and resignation to a life of no options and powerlessness. With this kind of apathy, no wonder the idiots get away with so much corruption and thievery.

Hell yes democracy in our Republic has problems but if people will just spend time reading and thinking and becoming informed, passionate voters things would work a helluva lot better. Saying, "it doesn't matter, we're all fucked" just doesn't work for me. If I felt that way I'd go shoot myself or buy a one-way ticket to another country. But I don't feel that way and have trouble understanding why such obviously bright and smart people can sometimes be so willfully deadened and empty inside.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
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Old 7th October 2008, 03:35   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flexi

even if that implies Mission Impending Doom 3?
Didn't we already have that?

One power we need is the power to have recall elections against anyone. If a politician goes wrong we should have a right to push them right on out of office if enough people agree. We have that but it's next to impossible to do when dealing with DC politicos.

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Old 7th October 2008, 04:39   #120
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Which side of the aisle are we going to fight the corruption on? I'm not even sure we can point out specific individuals for a booting.

You might not like Bush, but he expressed concerns about fannie and freddie as early as 2001. The democrats (especially Obama) definitely were in the pockets of Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson, both of them are neck deep in the mortgage debacle.

Between our two parties? How many hundred billion blown in fouled up policies?

I'll admit, I don't really know how to vote. It doesn't really matter anyway. I'm in Oregon where Obama is the clear winner.

"Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues, I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I defended their efforts to encourage affordable homeownership, when in retrospect I should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004. Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit that when it comes to Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong. - (D) Artur Davis

Hmmm.... wrong or bought ....?
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