Old 20th March 2003, 03:59   #1
Nullsoft
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Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

To our beloved developers,


we'd like to inform you of our new (or somewhat recently updated) development
plans for Winamp. It's important to note that our primary goals (to provide
the best media playback experience and functionality) have not changed.

The New Plan[tm]!

Currently we provide Winamp 2.81 and Winamp3 for our users. Both programs
provide some really excellent features and functionality, and a lot of those
benefits do not overlap between the two products.

We intend to combine everything our users like about Winamp 2.81 and Winamp3
into one version of Winamp.

Step 1: Winamp 2.9 (next week)

Winamp 2.9 will be built on Winamp 2.x, and include new features such as video
support and a media library. Winamp 2.9 will also provide some new APIs for
tighter plug-in integration. We will even be releasing portable device plug-ins
as examples.

Step 1.5: release lots of updates to Winamp 2.9x, to fix bugs and add minor improvements.

Step 2: Winamp "5" (this summer)

(The "5" is just a working title, and may or may not be used.. The (slightly amusing)
thought is that Winamp 2 + Winamp 3 = Winamp 5; but not everybody around is sold on
that idea. We'll see.)

This version will integrate Winamp 3 skin and script support into the Winamp 2.x platform.
This will allow users who do not wish to have complex freeform skins to use classic
Winamp skin(s), with the full performance of Winamp 2.x. Those who wish to use more
advanced Winamp3 skins can do so as well. The integration will be seamless.

Initially this version of Winamp will not support Wasabi components. That may
or may not change as we go forward, we have yet to see how worthwhile that will
be. We have and will be extending Winamp 2.x's plug-in architecture greatly to
allow much of the same functionality that can be accomplished with Wasabi).

We also plan on adding CD ripping and burning capability for this release.

We are aiming to release this version sometime (read: towards the end of) this
summer (2003).

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Profit!

(don't worry about steps 3 and 4, they are just a lame Southpark reference)

To just sum things up: plan going forward:
  • Winamp 2.9, March 2003
    - Adds video and library and new APIs for better plug-in integration to Winamp 2.x
  • Winamp "5" (title unknown), Late Summer 2003
    - Adds Winamp3 skin support, CD ripping, CD burning.
    - Fully supports Winamp "classic" and Winamp3 skins
    - Fully supports Winamp "classic" plug-ins
    - Does not initially support Winamp3 (Wasabi) components.


For developer questions, please ask in this forum.
For press inquires, please contact Ann Burkart <mailto:burkartann@aol.com>.


-Nullsoft

P.S. Steve _REALLY_ is an evil robot. Really. Of course, this remark annoys him. Because it is TRUE
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Old 21st March 2003, 10:58   #2
J_Bloggs
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Re: Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

Quote:
Originally posted by Nullsoft
Step 2: Winamp "5" (this summer)
Any chance of getting that to within a range of months? Where I am summers just finishing that doesn't mean much.

¯¯¯¯Joe Bloggs____
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Old 21st March 2003, 16:22   #3
Enfurno
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PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT... just as i read in that survey, are you guys thinking of charging for winamp?? i can tell you right now if that is the case ill never lay hands on another copy of winamp again..god forbid id have to switch to jetaudio. you guys are already backed by aol/timewarner, dont tell me they dont provide you with any profit. winamp has been a free program since i can remember using the internet, thats just how it is, dont change that or you are going to lose some of your long time friends.
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Old 21st March 2003, 18:14   #4
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COOL DO IT GUYS
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Old 21st March 2003, 19:43   #5
hammerhead
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What about winamp 3? Will it continue development?
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Old 21st March 2003, 20:23   #6
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Actually, Winamp was shareware up until 3 years ago. Mr. Winamp has always been free....

-s

Quote:
Originally posted by Enfurno
PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT... just as i read in that survey, are you guys thinking of charging for winamp?? i can tell you right now if that is the case ill never lay hands on another copy of winamp again..god forbid id have to switch to jetaudio. you guys are already backed by aol/timewarner, dont tell me they dont provide you with any profit. winamp has been a free program since i can remember using the internet, thats just how it is, dont change that or you are going to lose some of your long time friends.

Steve Gedikian
Ex Llama Wrangler
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Old 22nd March 2003, 00:50   #7
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yes, and I paid for it. Got a serial number that did absolutely nothing, since it was always fully functional anyway, but a lot of users paid for it.
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Old 22nd March 2003, 05:17   #8
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just to clear things up for some people, winamp3 WILL continue to be developed right? at what state? behind the scenes or what?

also, what is happening with the site, it will have to be relaunched for the new release of winamp5, do we get a new database this time?

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Old 22nd March 2003, 09:50   #9
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Why not build support for Mac and Linux instead of re-building something that's already fine as it is?

honestly, winamp 2.x is perfect. I can't and haven't found anything I would want changed with the program.. I say be content with the beautiful product you've produces, and try to reach a broader audience.
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Old 23rd March 2003, 11:32   #10
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Re: Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

Quote:
Originally posted by Nullsoft
Initially this version of Winamp will not support Wasabi components. That may
or may not change as we go forward, we have yet to see how worthwhile that will
be. We have and will be extending Winamp 2.x's plug-in architecture greatly to
allow much of the same functionality that can be accomplished with Wasabi).
I guess not all wa3 skins will be compatible with wa5 then.
This is gonna be really bad knowing that the best skins are the ones that wont work.
are you going to make an effort to have as many wa3 skins compatible or you think the skinners will definitly need to recode their complex skins?

QaBOjk, wa2 is not perfect and honestly, who cares about mac and linux? AOL doesnt.
I think The New Plan[tm] is very good and proves that nullsoft's working on providing what the users want.
wa2 is the best player, but aestheticly it's not half as good as the competition.. wa3 being the best in that business combining the two is an excelent idea.
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Old 23rd March 2003, 11:37   #11
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Re: Re: Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

Quote:
Originally posted by Adil
I guess not all wa3 skins will be compatible with wa5 then.
This is gonna be really bad knowing that the best skins are the ones that wont work.
are you going to make an effort to have as many wa3 skins compatible or you think the skinners will definitly need to recode their complex skins?
No adil, I think what will happen is they will get the system to ignore the wasabi. Which is NOT the main part of the skin, it is the resizeable window (stdframe). Maki will still be there, so your BOOM skin will be fine, I think.
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Old 23rd March 2003, 11:39   #12
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little post about the new winamp name, I personally like the idea of Winamp5... I just hope it wont be replaced by something like:
- Winamp XP
- Winamp pro
- Winamp Gold
- Winamp 2003
- Winamp 3.1
- Winamp Millenium
- Winamp Turbo
- Super Winamp
etc...

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Old 23rd March 2003, 11:47   #13
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Re: Re: Re: Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

Quote:
Originally posted by hammerhead
No adil, I think what will happen is they will get the system to ignore the wasabi. Which is NOT the main part of the skin, it is the resizeable window (stdframe). Maki will still be there, so your BOOM skin will be fine, I think.
ok, since you took the example of boom, did you know that it uses the standard frame for other stuff than PL or ML? like the boom preferences, about box, the manual...
and what about the skins that iclude the color themes selection into a drawer? (mmd3 for ex)

I've noticed that the standard frame is present in wa2.9... so maybe that wont be a problem, I just wanna know exactly what parts of the current wa3 skins wont work in the future wa5.
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Old 23rd March 2003, 19:01   #14
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Looking at will's code, I think he may actually have to make some adjustments.
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Old 24th March 2003, 20:48   #15
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winamp 5 will fully support wa3 skins, it says it right hup there, dont get 2.9 and 5 confused..

i think the new name should be Winamp ZR945 lol
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Old 24th March 2003, 20:57   #16
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Yes, but WASABI will not be included. I think this means no more XUI objects, and those are plentiful in BOOM.
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Old 24th March 2003, 21:07   #17
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oh well, hopefully this will be for the best, winamp 3 is very cpu hungry compared to most other mp3 players and it does have several bugs.
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Old 25th March 2003, 09:53   #18
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no xui objects? damn, that means NONE of my skins will work, including JRS

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Old 25th March 2003, 16:13   #19
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gonna keep on working with wa3.... no wasabi ... men.. how can u even THINK that! *g*... btw.. i don't like the "winamp 5"-idea... winamp5 sounds like it would be something totally new, and that's just not the case...

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Old 25th March 2003, 16:21   #20
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XUI objs are just xml and maki. Same as skins. I'd think the gamma controls could be ported over along with the rest of the skinning system. They'll most likely use the popular skins they have in their database for in-house testing of the new system, so like, don't sweat it, .

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Old 25th March 2003, 17:06   #21
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Oh. I always thought XUIs were wasabi components.
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Old 27th March 2003, 21:23   #22
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it would be nice if you tell us(beginners) what wasabi is( in some "easy" words) so we can see what will be missing in winamp 5.
About the name i think winamp 4 will be the next logical name but what the hell winamp 5 sound good.
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Old 27th March 2003, 21:48   #23
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I think Winamp 5 is kinda weak. I mean, winamp3 had the neat little play on MP3, but MP5? We have yet to see that. (tell me I'm right about this) I think it should be something more dramatic, like Winamp: Project Crispy, or WPC for short. Something to capture that llama-beatin' attitude of winamp.

Edit: And I know this wasn't addressed above, but please keep the MAKI the same. If I had to learn another custom programming language from scratch again, I might be forced to find and behead the evil robot.
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Old 27th March 2003, 22:25   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto Cuellar
it would be nice if you tell us(beginners) what wasabi is( in some "easy" words) so we can see what will be missing in winamp 5.
About the name i think winamp 4 will be the next logical name but what the hell winamp 5 sound good.
Wasabi is a software development platform. It's the collection of source code files (libraries and classes) that allows a developer to make an application that is skinnable, extendable, and cross-platform. At least, that's what is supposed to eventually become. Cross platform building isn't really available yet, although it is being worked on. Right now the whole platform is written using MSVC6 as an IDE. That means you need to know C++ to use it directly. Other proramming languages like VB and Delphi may be able to interact with it in the future or through third party efforts like that of bizzy_d, who is creating a wasabi component for winamp3 to allow VB developers to work with Winamp3(in a limited but "better than nothing" way). Using the Wasabi SDK (which is also the Winamp3 SDK now, although the two will eventually become seperate entities), you build on top of already available code to do what you want. This means you have to be prepared to learn and use someone else's style of programming but you gain a lot of power and speed by not having to recreate common solutions to common problems like network communications, user interaction/interface, and file i/o (among many other things). They have classes for handling all kinds of common things and that lets you get on with whatever special feature you're working on.

So that's it in a nutshell, I think. Feel free to correct me if I've made a grave mistake or misassumption somewhere.

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Old 28th March 2003, 00:48   #25
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from what i think i've understand if wasabi is gone in winamp5 all components will not work anymore right??, but skins an maki will be the same right??, please correct me if i'm wrong, i just wanna know what will change for skinning.
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Old 18th April 2003, 16:32   #26
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Talking Old Parameter /class=[something]

Very good!

So my and the Software "MP3Find" and
the Software of all other developer who
wrote additions for Winamp 2.x will survive !!!

But is it sure that also the old Parameter
/class=[something] will be supported?

This is very important for me,
because my software controls 2 Winamps 2.x
simultaneous over WMS-Commands.

Thanks for fast reply
Peter Lorenz
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Old 1st May 2003, 06:49   #27
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WinAMP4 - > future of music.... mp4 aac. (hopefully)
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Old 1st May 2003, 13:40   #28
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MP4 AAC playback is available now.

http://faac.sourceforge.net/download.php

With licensing costs, I wouldn't get my hopes up for AOL to float the costs of legally bundling it with Winamp, unless they have(find) a use for it that will somehow make them some money.

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Old 9th May 2003, 22:30   #29
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I have a suggestion about Winamp5
I have post that also to Wishlist.

Can be compatible with Macromedia Flash???
What I mean.
Ok I'm a webdesigner and GFX guy ok?
Imagine how many Extras can get winamp using the technology of Flash swf movies into it like graphics parts, menus, buttons with sounds, animation with/without actionscript and MUCH MUCH MORE.

I would pay for that definately, but don't ask to pay for a version that it's already great as about compatibility and features.
I mean i could give money to something inovative and 1 step ahead from the rest of the players, but not on a player that the only competition is on standard things like burning and video playing.

You see Real One right? you see Sonique, those are 10 steps behind Winamp. Why? cause winamp community made winamp what is now.
And don't try to profit money from people that supports winamp for the ideal and for a hobby, this ain't right my friends.

As I say in my slogan Feed Your Imagination, go around, take a look see how the whole internet world is developed on this state of time and you'll see what I mean clearly.

Thanks for reading and I hope to see this one day happen
Greetings from (ages behind Greece) damn it's too hot here now :P
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Old 12th May 2003, 14:31   #30
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This idea is very wonder!
wa3+wa2.9=5?
also how to direct wa5?
and some need to very try?!
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Old 14th May 2003, 11:22   #31
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VAG, this idea is wonderful! but wouldn't such a player grow too big? i mean, winamp3 already sometimes takes ages to load (when u've gotta load a big skin), but with flashsupport? wowi

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Old 14th May 2003, 14:40   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by VAG
Can be compatible with Macromedia Flash???
the best idea yet! or even better would be to use svg cause it's in xml format already and using swf would require you to get down and dirty with macromedia or something... unless they released the specs on their format
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Old 17th May 2003, 11:35   #33
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the idea of incorporating flash support is awesome...winamp needs hardcore animation like that in the skins factory skins of wmp9.
even gif support would be cool
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Old 17th May 2003, 15:26   #34
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Adding gif support is relatively trivial compared to well-integrated flash support. But gifs are very limited and the type of animation they support is already available with animatedLayers. So support for them isn't very useful...you can just convert the gif to a png.

By well-integrated flash support I mean allowing winamp3 and flash to really work together, not just displaying a flash movie in a window. BTW, if you want to do just that now, you can use a browser object and have it navigate to a flash.

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Old 17th May 2003, 17:14   #35
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But for proper flash support, nullsoft would have to pay Macromedia? And that would for winamp 3 to become shareware, right?
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Old 18th May 2003, 14:08   #36
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I don't know about everyone else here, but this new Winamp sounds very promising to me. And in my opinion, I would make it my default player even if none of the old skins worked with it. A complete skining refresh could be a good thing in some aspects. All of the best skins could be completely redone if needed. I know I would redo my skins if I had to, no questions asked.

Finally! A Winamp with CD-ripping and Burning built in. I can't wait to get rid of JetAudio. Hopefully, it won't use much resorces. I need a full-featured player that runs well in the background.
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Old 18th May 2003, 15:43   #37
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Gonzotek
Ecxept animation my friend Flash uses Vector graphics
Can you imagine skins to be same quality of graphics in any resolution?
Imagine custom menus builded in Flash for each skin except the standard menus that Nullsoft will include on the player.

As about that HH asked about paying Macromedia, I believe this is
not a standard, Macromedia can be added to About Credits that Winamp will have, and there is not need to pay for using swf movies, cause each created movie is builded with a purchased Flash5/MX application
So there is no need to pay for use.

It's like askins from Adobe and Macromedia, Corel , Jasc Software rights for using PNGs now.... (no sense)

I could pay of course for a version of Winamp supporting this.
GIFs aren't the best idea for animations.....256 colors limitations
make a skin look........bad.

So Gonzo my friend go tell to the Developers about that and make some connections with Macromedia and ask about that.
That could be awsome OUT OF COMPETITION Player if taht heppens.

PS: And that idea is a gift from me to you :P
Hehehe

LaterZzz
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Old 18th May 2003, 16:11   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by VAG
Ecxept animation my friend Flash uses Vector graphics
Can you imagine skins to be same quality of graphics in any resolution?
now wouldn't that be something
Quote:
It's like askins from Adobe and Macromedia, Corel , Jasc Software rights for using PNGs now.... (no sense)
yes... except the rights for png isn't owned by any of those companies, or any company at all -- it's open... whereas macromedia owns the rights for flash... so why not use another standard? *cough*svg*cough*
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Old 18th May 2003, 16:12   #39
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http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....=flash+winamp3

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....=flash+winamp3

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....=flash+winamp3

Vag, sorry but your idea is OLD . It's been discussed and discussed some more. The developers are aware of the possibility, but aren't pursuing it currently and have encouraged third party developers to try their hands at coding a flash-integrating component. I agree, it's a great idea, but properly integrated support isn't a trivial task, to do it right would require a lot of time and effort, no matter who does it.

About paying for PNG's: They're already a free open-sourced format, flash movies aren't. So there isn't anyone to collect fees for using PNG. Flash, on the other hand, is Macromedia's hot meal ticket.

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Old 18th May 2003, 17:03   #40
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I personally think the scripting engine is FINE. And didn't I read somewhere about button sounds?
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