Old 6th December 2006, 22:54   #1
will
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The Atheist Delusion

Heh.

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Old 6th December 2006, 22:56   #2
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god is not a delusion, he's a farsical entity conjured up to corral the people of his time and give them one common belief and therefore some sort of unity.

I hate everyone, so you don't have to.
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Old 6th December 2006, 22:59   #3
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No dude. Atheists are deluded.

God -> bible -> God.

Checkmate!

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Old 6th December 2006, 22:59   #4
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^ Very witty bit, will!
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Old 6th December 2006, 23:00   #5
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the bible is nothing but lies...

furthermore, i challenge you to prove your "god" hypothesis, if you cannot all religions must denounce him at once

see where that kind of one sided reasoning leads to?

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Old 6th December 2006, 23:04   #6
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I like being a "pick and choose" non-religous, Catholic(sorta) Works for me!
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Old 6th December 2006, 23:18   #7
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The God Test

ok here ya go, if you really wanna prove god simply and easily follow these steps :

1. wait for a lightning storm
2. go outside and bring a hose along (you'll need it later)
3. find the nearest tree (preferably a really large one, ones with cell phone antennas work especially well)
4. make as large of a puddle as you can with the hose (this must be done AROUND THE TREE, so that the TREE IS IN THE STANDING WATER)
5. jump into the puddle of water that should be now surrounding your tree
6. YELL as loud as you can : "IF GOD EXISTS I WILL NOT BE STRUCK BY LIGHTNING!"

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Old 6th December 2006, 23:21   #8
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hahaha Good find, Will.
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Old 7th December 2006, 00:05   #9
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Re: The God Test

Indeed. Hilarious.

Quote:
Originally posted by Too-DAMN-Much
ok here ya go, if you really wanna prove god simply and easily follow these steps :

...

6. YELL as loud as you can : "IF GOD EXISTS I WILL NOT BE STRUCK BY LIGHTNING!"
You're assuming God will follow your instructions.


One of my favorite parts of any such discussion is that the Earth is some 6000 years old.

I personally think the Earth is 39 years old.

How do I know anything existed before I was born? What can I trust?

I better come up with a way to explain it all for myself. And then put it all into a book. And then that it's in the book will make it true.
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Old 7th December 2006, 00:35   #10
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That was well done.

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Old 7th December 2006, 00:39   #11
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Except that anybody born after it was published could not believe it...


Personally I hope there's a god, because otherwise I spent a fair part of my childhood talking to myself.

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Old 7th December 2006, 01:15   #12
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the video was okay, i am a christian, but i don't believe everything in it

remember, the bible was not directly written by God, but his followers

for example, the time the earth has ben around, my theory is that the 6000 years is from after the earth cooled, the "days" described in Genisis could theorecticaly be longer periods of time, the first couple being enlongated because of the smoldering surface's light

also, it is not delusional to believe in no God, there are several scientifid works that have been proven while the bible stays unproved in a logical and understandable way

the God --> Bible --> God thing doesn't work for me, more like God --> followers --> Bible --> God, any kind of distortion could happen in the followers stage, the bible states that we, as humans, are imperfect beings, so how could we write the perfect testimony to the almighty God?

the Bible may have some flaws in it, but so does atheism

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Old 7th December 2006, 05:04   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainintheface5
the video was okay, i am a christian, but i don't believe everything in it
You *do* know that the whole thing is a joke, don't you?

Quote:
Originally posted by rainintheface5
the God --> Bible --> God thing doesn't work for me, more like God --> followers --> Bible --> God
So you're saying the logic is perfectly circular? Very interesting.

Quote:
Originally posted by rainintheface5
the Bible may have some flaws in it, but so does atheism
I agree. In an infinite context (i.e., the universe), it's scientifically impossible to prove that something (i.e., God) does not exist.

And actually, the Bible *is* perfect. For it to be imperfect, it would have to be based in known fact and then stray from it.

All fictional works are perfect, so to speak, as they are exactly whatever the author intended them to be (barring errors in spelling or grammar). With fiction there are no rules of content, and no limits except the human imagination.

The Bible is certainly one of the finest works of mankind ever created.
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Old 7th December 2006, 05:33   #14
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i just cannot, nay will not believe a book written about the afterlife by someone who has never experienced it, it's just a stupid thing to do....

i'm no rocket scientist, so if i told you carrots will make your rocket reach pluto, that means you'd believe me?!?!?

I hate everyone, so you don't have to.
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Old 7th December 2006, 05:37   #15
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While scor makes a logical argument with a strong base, TDM just shouts out retarded shit. Kinda like some Christians, amirite?

Quote:
Originally posted by Too-DAMN-Much
i challenge you to prove your "god" hypothesis,
(The act of aquiring) Proof denies faith, and without faith God is nothing.

The video makes me laugh, even if I'm a Christian. Well put together and humorous.
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Old 7th December 2006, 07:21   #16
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Without faith in something, you believe in nothing.

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Old 7th December 2006, 07:24   #17
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And what's wrong with that?
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Old 7th December 2006, 07:34   #18
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I don't know. I do know that everybody believes in something.

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Old 7th December 2006, 08:47   #19
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I believe that the square of the hypotenuse is the sum of the squares of the other two sides of a right triangle.

That's what I believe in. Because I can prove it.

(ok, so I do believe some things are very highly likely, such as evolution and the big bang. But it would be possible for additional evidence to change this opinion. Could any evidence change your opinion on the origin of the universe? If the answer is "no" then (IMO) you have no hope of getting anywhere near the right answer.)

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Old 7th December 2006, 09:24   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by deeder7001
I don't know. I do know that everybody believes in something.
Well, most people believe in something !
And even the most non-religous person has prayed that their car would start in cold weather!
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Old 7th December 2006, 09:25   #21
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I'm kind of skeptic on the "Big Bang Theory". Always have been. Never quite made sense to me. God also boggles my mind. Where did God come from? How did God get here? Why? How does God not have a beginning? Just because I believe in it doesn't mean that I don't have questions about it. I also like looking for answers to things. Even if only a few tolerate my methods.

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Old 7th December 2006, 09:36   #22
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You raise an important point.

If you answer the question "How were we created" with "God did it", then this does raise a lot of problems. Such as "How was God created?"

In general, I think that God as an explanation creates more questions that answers.

"God did it" is not a simple answer, but one that (for me) requires an awful lot of justification. Justification that is never provided by God-based religions.

And that's one of the reasons why I think God is very highly unlikely.

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Old 7th December 2006, 09:41   #23
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Well, I believe in the possibility of The Big Bang Theory!
And, I like having faith in my own version of God!
Lots of very devout people have questioned their faith, deeder
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Old 7th December 2006, 09:42   #24
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Without questions, there are no answers.

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Old 7th December 2006, 10:17   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Widdykats
And even the most non-religous person has prayed that their car would start in cold weather!
I've never prayed for anything inanimate, or for an event to occur. But I pray for friends when they ask for it.

If prayer without belief makes me a blasphemer, then so be it.
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Old 7th December 2006, 11:33   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by deeder7001
I'm kind of skeptic on the "Big Bang Theory". Always have been. Never quite made sense to me.
Obviously it's incomplete. It's just the most logical conclusion from the data that we currently have, which makes it the accepted theory. When we get more information, it'll be amended.

There's certainly not enough evidence to explain why it happened, at present. There may never be enough. But that doesn't discredit the theory; it simply states that, given the evidence and understanding we have, the logical conclusion is that all these things were once close together, and has been expanding since then.

The problem that science-type people tend to have with religion is that it's not disprovable. It's based upon simple assertion ("God exists") which can never be proven incorrect, whereas scientific theories always can.

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Old 7th December 2006, 11:38   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
I've never prayed for anything inanimate, or for an event to occur. But I pray for friends when they ask for it.

If prayer without belief makes me a blasphemer, then so be it.
Nah! You're just kind! But you never prayed you wouldn't bust a zipper on your jeans?
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Old 7th December 2006, 15:04   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Too-DAMN-Much
i just cannot, nay will not believe a book written about the afterlife by someone who has never experienced it, it's just a stupid thing to do....

i'm no rocket scientist, so if i told you carrots will make your rocket reach pluto, that means you'd believe me?!?!?
Actually the bible has very little to say about the afterlife. Maybe you should try reading the bible before you criticize it?

if one were to criticize a scientific theory such as evolution or the big bang theory would you accept their criticisms when it was fairly obvious they knew very little about those theories?

As far as young earth, and old earth arguments, things like the big bang, and even evolution have very little to do with Christianity and salvation through Jesus Christ
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Old 7th December 2006, 17:37   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by will
In general, I think that God as an explanation creates more questions that answers.
I don't know. I mean, it basically creates one question: Who is God? Because once you know who he is, everything else kinda falls into place. Of course, you never know the entire answer, but as long as you are seeking to find the answer, you're well on your way of doing what he expects of you. (e. g. David was a man after God's own heart)


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Old 7th December 2006, 18:11   #30
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Re: Re: The God Test

Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
I personally think the Earth is 39 years old.
Personally I believe in Last Thursdayism

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
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Old 7th December 2006, 18:27   #31
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Funny stuff.

Religion is great. So long as people don't take it seriously enough that we end up with Dark Ages or Crusades then its harmless.

-- Jheriko

'Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers'
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Old 7th December 2006, 18:49   #32
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Funny how people still are trying to prove that God does/does not exist.
If that were possible, then don't you think that the people in the time before us (no matter if that's 6000 or some millions of years) would've been able to do that and get this discussion over with?

It ends up with faith, without evidence other than your own experiences.
All I mean is don't judge others by your own point of view because your knowledge is incomplete.

About the 'Where does God come from' question, I'll answer with: Where did the stuff that caused the Big Bang come from? First there was nothing, then that nothing exploded and formed everything?! Christianity offers an answer here, but in the end it all comes down to what you choose to believe.

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Old 7th December 2006, 19:12   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
I don't know. I mean, it basically creates one question: Who is God?
Ok, I'll expand this question somewhat:
Where did God come from?
When did God come into existence?
Why did God create us?
How does God exert his power?
How many Gods are there?
Is God as described the Christian mythology, the Muslim mythology, the Ancient Greek/Roman mythology, the Viking mythology, the Hindu mythology, or the Ancient Egyptian mythology or Flying Spaghetti monster or <continue unto infinity> ?

I could go on.

"Who is God?" is probably the most complicated question you could possibly ask.

Each religion gives a different set of answers to some of these questions and doesn't have an answer for the rest of them. And there is no way to know which religions answers are right!

And all this is after we make the assumption that God even exists!

My point is this: "God did it!" is the most incomplete, unsatisfying, and unprovable answer to any question.

God is such a poor explanation that I don't think it can be the answer to any question.

I became an atheist the day I realised this.

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Old 7th December 2006, 19:30   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Warrior of the Light
About the 'Where does God come from' question, I'll answer with: Where did the stuff that caused the Big Bang come from? First there was nothing, then that nothing exploded and formed everything?! Christianity offers an answer here, but in the end it all comes down to what you choose to believe.
Actually, the big bang can be explained through an application of quantum mechanics. Given that there is a chance for a universe to be created (this must be true since we exist in the universe), due to quantum mechanics it is then 100% certain that sooner or latter a universe will form out of complete nothingness. The caveat to this though is that for every positive universe that gets created, you need to create one negative universe to keep the total energy zero. With that you can have a universe with infinite energy as long as another universe is created with equally infinite but opposite energy.

This principle can be illustrated on the micro scale through particle interactions. In some sub-atomic particle interactions you need to calculate your results to include virtual particles. Virtual particles are particles that appear out of nothing and disappear immediately after they appear, but they occur in pairs, one positive one negative, so that the total energy is zero.
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Old 7th December 2006, 19:34   #35
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Albeit that's a structured theory, it reminds me of this, which makes me laugh.
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Old 7th December 2006, 19:54   #36
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Every theory I have ever heard (religious or scientific) is based on assumptions.
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Old 7th December 2006, 20:27   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by will
"Who is God?" is probably the most complicated question you could possibly ask.
And that very fact has to count for something. What could be more noble than seeking after the most complicated question one could ask?

Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
The problem that science-type people tend to have with religion is that it's not disprovable. It's based upon simple assertion ("God exists") which can never be proven incorrect, whereas scientific theories always can.
Who are you ultimately trying to prove or disprove "god exists" to? Because the answer is always "myself" when a scientific type asks that question. The "leap of faith" required to believe that God exists removes the self from this process. Experiencing something "bigger" than yourself requires passiveness. It's not you observing the answers or you rationalizing any observation, its allowing yourself to be observed and rationalized.

Quote:
Originally posted by will
Each religion gives a different set of answers to some of these questions and doesn't have an answer for the rest of them. And there is no way to know which religions answers are right!
You can see what each one tells you about yourself and about God.
Atheism always seems to tell me that I'm the center of the universe.
I find that unsatisfying and unfair to everyone else.


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Old 7th December 2006, 20:38   #38
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Quite the contrary, Atheism tells you that you are quite insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe, which is unfathomably old and large.

Religions tells you that you are "Gods chosen people" and are special and the universe was made for you. Isn't that unfair to everyone else?

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Old 7th December 2006, 20:51   #39
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Old 7th December 2006, 20:52   #40
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nothing is fair.

Where does this notion of fairness come from anyway?
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