Old 7th September 2001, 21:29   #1
OnceAponATime
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 1
Another graphics question

I am sorry, there are alot of people asking about better frame rates and video acceleration but no straight forward answers. Why is implementing 3D acceleration into AVS so difficult? I have seen other visual plug-ins for Winamp that use the technology, not that Im downing AVS .... it kicks ASS, but it has a slow frame rate because it doesen't use the available resources of an everyday computer. Shouldn't this be looked at as a problem by the coders? I see alot in the news about skins and new skins for Winamp 3, but nothing about the coding of a new AVS thats gonna blow you away be cause it CAN use accelerated graphics.Is there any development and if so when can it be expected? Again, I am not putting the code down, its unreal, but it would be UNREAL if it could use REAL graphics.
OnceAponATime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2001, 02:34   #2
Scarface2k1
Banned
 
Scarface2k1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: i dont get out much so i dont remember
Posts: 1,032
Send a message via ICQ to Scarface2k1 Send a message via AIM to Scarface2k1 Send a message via Yahoo to Scarface2k1
because avs doesnt need it to be it (basically saying) you can have avs to look like its have 3d and GL, just u got to have the right presets that do
Scarface2k1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2001, 05:28   #3
transfrmr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 157
True...

I believe that right now the flaw is that most of the people making AVS presets (myself included) still don't completely understand the program itself. Therefore, we an't really optimise our work. There are people making insane presets that run pretty fast, but you're going to need a faster processor to watch them.

As for why it takes them so long.. Well, in case you didn't notice, it's freeware, and they have just had staff cuts at nullsoft as well. Plus they're workingon Winamp 3. I'm pretty sure they'll get around to updating AVS, an maybe even implementing some kind of 3d card usage, but hey, they have other stuff to do.

(hey, that may be way off base, but I'm pretty sure it's something along those lines)
transfrmr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2001, 03:12   #4
rarefluid
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
3D graphics are possible with AVS. You just got to do it yourself...
It works. You need nothing but a superscope and some equations.
There is a guy that doues this prefectly, let's see, what's his name... Uhm... ELVIS I think. Oh, yes he's even made some presets that are in the standard AVS-newpicks dir. Try "Livinginabox" and learn...

Some features to ues hardware would be nice. Maybe scaling the AVS-output could be done in hardware, means redering to maybe 320*200, but displaying it at 640*480. Like pixel-doubling, only that the hardware does it with filtering and stuff. Would be nice.

Everything else would mean using OpenGL or D3D and I think it would be dificult to work into AVS.

I also think that the limits of AVS are somehow a challenge and some people invent new ways to push these limits further. AVS is about visuals for music not a 3D-engine...

KIM
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2001, 23:31   #5
Scarface2k1
Banned
 
Scarface2k1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: i dont get out much so i dont remember
Posts: 1,032
Send a message via ICQ to Scarface2k1 Send a message via AIM to Scarface2k1 Send a message via Yahoo to Scarface2k1
or how bouts updating one's graphics card (which should give someone about 5-10 more fps depending on what card he gots)
Scarface2k1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2001, 13:36   #6
transfrmr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 157
Yep.

If you want true proof that AVS 3D graphics at a decent framerate is possible, check out the EL-VIS plasma pack. Good to the last drop, I drooled all over myself and almost drowned
transfrmr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2001, 17:05   #7
Tonic
Senior Member
 
Tonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Sofia,Bulgaria
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally posted by rarefluid
Some features to ues hardware would be nice. Maybe scaling the AVS-output could be done in hardware, means redering to maybe 320*200, but displaying it at 640*480. Like pixel-doubling, only that the hardware does it with filtering and stuff. Would be nice.

KIM
Yes we members of AVSociety talk about such fetures from more then 6 months and send some messages to Justin. And finaly he implant same fuction in new AVS that can be found only in WINAMP alpha l8r so it cannot be used with WINAMP 2.x until they did not release new version. But I still think there is a lot of things to improve for example thic scaling may be done automaticly dipends of speed of AVS so if diplay resolution is 800/600 and you want to run all AVS with 20FPS it may reduce render size dynamicly but stil display 800/600 using filtering like in overaly mode. But from this comes one other program most of AVS effect must be rewrited so size of element to be same nometer used resolution. For example now if you use SSC with Line width from "Set render mode" you only are ableto select size depending of pixel not from actual screen size. So if one SSC is 100 pixels width it will be take 33% (1/3) of screen if res. is 320/240 but if res. is 800/600 it will take only 12% (1/8) of screen. And this will couse not so similar look of AVS if render size is dynamicly changed based on speed.
Tonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2001, 17:22   #8
Tonic
Senior Member
 
Tonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Sofia,Bulgaria
Posts: 137
Re: Yep.

Quote:
Originally posted by transfrmr
If you want true proof that AVS 3D graphics at a decent framerate is possible, check out the EL-VIS plasma pack. Good to the last drop, I drooled all over myself and almost drowned
There is many wasy if creating 3D AVS. Just need to know AVS very well.
Histori of 3D avs.
1 - There is one 3D.APE that displeay some 3D objects from .ASC files. I do not know how to find program with which are made .ASC files and cannot find somone to help me. So there is near 7 .ASC files with different shapes like ANT,Cube,Sphere .... Check for "Tonic_Fatest_pack" (in WINAMP AVS presets page) for this 3D ape and all .ASK files

2 - Second way was with 3D surfaces that are made with normal Static Movement. Example is "x=x/(y+1)" that create izometric look.
there is a lot of other static 3D surfaces that can be produced like 3D room, 3D coridor, 3D tunel etc.. but code is more complicated

3 - Then when we have this 3D surface you may add and some 3D movement like X,Y shifting with (with DynShift) then with DynDist you can add and Z axis (with zooming)

4 - THen as you said El-Vis decide that SSC and be mede 3D with usage of some 3D transformacion. For such effect searc for "El_VIS" (in WINAMP AVS presets page) and DL 6 and 7 AVS packs from him

5 - Next step was when to AVS were added new effect called DynMove.
There is alot AVS artist that use DynMOve to create 3D look but best of them that use full feture of DynMove is UnConeD. Dl his presets from WINAMP AVS preset pasge by searching for "WHACKO" or just go to "TOP 10 AVS presets" page and you will see them. Also last El-vis 8th AVS Pack to heve good usage of 3D DynMovements

all info come from Tonic

PS: Some new 3D AVS and from me can be found here

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation.php?id=78161

some old from me and other can be found here:
http://tonic.deviantart.com
http://avsking.deviantart.com
http://el-vionic.deviantart.com
http://nemoorange.deviantart.com
Tonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2001, 00:12   #9
transfrmr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 157
:)

Thanks Tonic..

I have all of EL-VIS and Unconed's packs, they are sublime. I also have a great many of yours and they're great too.

Did the AVS society ever get a site? I searched but there doesn't seem to be one around. Also you guys were mentionning making an AVS tutorial, has this happened? Because if not I'd be interested in helping out.

Anyways, you can e-mail me if you want, or PM me.

Thanks for the tips and the reply, it really does help. If you want to check out some of my work, the links are at the bottom(in sig).

L8tr
transfrmr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2001, 15:42   #10
ParaNoya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: HOEVUH!!!! (The Netherlands)
Posts: 26
Send a message via ICQ to ParaNoya
Yes a site is coming.

There is being worked hard on the official AVSociety site. But it isn't finished yet. I hope it'll be finished soon but I don't know exactly when that's going to be. But we'll keep you informed when the site will be up.
ParaNoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2001, 15:52   #11
ParaNoya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: HOEVUH!!!! (The Netherlands)
Posts: 26
Send a message via ICQ to ParaNoya
oops

BTW for now we have a temporary community. this can be found at http://communities.msn.com/avsociety here you can ask eveything you want and check out the latest "thechniques" in the field of AVS.
ParaNoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2001, 03:52   #12
n_ick2000
Forum King
 
n_ick2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: -
Posts: 2,501
Send a message via AIM to n_ick2000 Send a message via Yahoo to n_ick2000
Quote:
Originally posted by rarefluid
3D graphics are possible with AVS. You just got to do it yourself...
I think there should be a new superscope designed just for 3d stuff.

|
n_ick2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2001, 12:10   #13
UnConeD
Whacked Moderator
 
UnConeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,104
Quote:
Originally posted by n_ick2000


I think there should be a new superscope designed just for 3d stuff.
I totally disagree... every 3D SSC I've made has had slightly different code because of preset-specific optimizations. If we move to a 3D SSC it would only be good if the code would be lightning fast and super-versatile. 3D SSC is more than just a silly wireframe
UnConeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2001, 20:05   #14
rradikal
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 39
3d acceleration problem cleared

hi i'd like to clear this ever-somingback problem.
there are no features in avs which could be 3d accelerated.
of coz using a hardware scaling is a great suggestion but
i guess this is not the core of accelerated gfx most of ppl ask for.

there should be new features coded to use 3d stuff ...
somethin like 3d object renderer with a customizable number
of faces and reaction on sound ... and texture loader.
and lightning ... hey, it sound cool!
rradikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2001, 17:01   #15
UnConeD
Whacked Moderator
 
UnConeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,104
Actually

Well actually some parts of AVS could be 3D accelerated. Using the lightning fast blitter in your card is a lot faster than using your cpu. The dynamicmovement for example can be done using a 3D card (the plug-in Milkdrop does it). The superscope as well (if your 3D card has dedicated and fast line drawing features).

The reason it doesn't work well for AVS is because all the rest is done by the CPU, so you'd need to copy the image to the card, process it, and bring it back to the CPU for more processing. In this case letting the CPU do it is faster I believe.
UnConeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Visualizations > AVS

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump