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Old 14th June 2005, 02:45   #81
someusername
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here's my bunch...
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Old 14th June 2005, 22:44   #82
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Phat/Eos can you reduce it by more still to about 50-60. There are many worthy additions there but there are a few that look similar and imho a couple that are not up to the quailty of teh rest (ouch for example). and some seem really slow.

The amount atm will increase the downlaod size of Winamp considerably.

Personaly I want to keep the essence of MilkDrop that we have built up over the year thus keeping many of the presets from the previous versions.

I'll trim the existing presets installed with Winamp but about 20-30% but there are many to add.

I think much of Geiss' stuff should stay. I find it a bit insulting to suggest removing all of Ryans stuff.

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Old 15th June 2005, 02:41   #83
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Not to be confrontational here, but Rovastar, you have 124 presets that are already bundled with Milkdrop [a lot show their age given they are from the days of Milkdrop 1.1, and to use your words "are not up to the quality of the rest"]. 124 alone is more presets than I have posted above [119] by both myself and Phat combined.
I am seriously not trying to start drama, but you yourself have not posted any new presets in quite some time [10 since jan '04], and for the last two years have really only posted in the forum to plug R4, not to moderate or discuss milkdrop, so I'm not entirely sure why this is a decision up to you, rather than Tag.

Given the very few hardcore authors that are still posting here, there is at the very least, room for each of us to have 30 presets each. There are no more than 10 major authors with enough presets to even post that many, that's 300 presets, add in the others who've only posted 9 or 10 to include and we are still well under 400 presets [including you and Geiss].
I see absolutely no reason that anyone here should be restricted to (x) number of presets, if the same restriction does not apply to everyone else.

We should only keep Geiss' better stuff, a lot of it is so old that it literally is just a simple waveform and some zoom or warp.

The set up for presets in the next release of Winamp should both be fair the authors, and make Milkdrop look it's best.

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Old 15th June 2005, 03:57   #84
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"but there are a few that look similar"

Yea, I but you have something like 14 different Harlequin remixes currently bundled.

And these have already been downloaded THOUSANDS of times. (maybe even millions I don't know the stats)

How about letting the people that still actively post presets take a little more dominance?
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Old 15th June 2005, 04:30   #85
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Might I also point out that of the above 119 Phat and I listed, 46 of them involve other authors, either as remixes of our work, our remixing of, or credited code [Krash's beat detection]...

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Old 15th June 2005, 09:51   #86
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Money problems suck
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Old 15th June 2005, 09:59   #87
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That they do.

Me and Eo.S have been there to, we've been food stamp poor before.

Hope you're problems work themselves out soon. =)
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Old 15th June 2005, 12:09   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phat
"but there are a few that look similar"

Yea, I but you have something like 14 different Harlequin remixes currently bundled.

And these have already been downloaded THOUSANDS of times. (maybe even millions I don't know the stats)

How about letting the people that still actively post presets take a little more dominance?
Obviously you have misubderstood my post entirely.

Yes there are some that are similar in the existing install in there and like I said there will be some that will be trimmed. There are many of mine that I want to remove.

No-one is saying that you should not be included in the install you seem to make out this is the case.

If there are say 400 presets or so in the new install and you have 60 of them that is a significant chunk of them.

I didn't see people like Aderrasi complaining that he had only 1 or 2 in the install of MilkDrop when he posted hundreds of them here many of them very good.

You will be fully represented please don't make that you will not be.

Krash beat code is many presets and AFAIK he doesn't request recognition for this in them. I class nearly all of those presets 100+ presets with your stamp on them.

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Old 15th June 2005, 12:36   #89
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Quote:
Hope you're problems work themselves out soon.
Odd, my are problems weren't at issue.

Dammit Rova, try to stay on topic.
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Old 15th June 2005, 12:50   #90
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Oh, I figured when you said money problems you ment you're money problems..

What other money would you have been talking about? (Is it some kinda reference that I'm just not getting or something?)
Cuz I thought that comment came out of left field. I just figured you where posting it in here because that's where everyone was looking.
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Old 15th June 2005, 13:13   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eo.S.
Not to be confrontational here, but Rovastar, you have 124 presets that are already bundled with Milkdrop [a lot show their age given they are from the days of Milkdrop 1.1, and to use your words "are not up to the quality of the rest"].
I meant the quailty of the ones in your pack. I do have a fair few in there Ryan choose them and not me many I suggested to him from other authors were not included.

I want to trim mine down really but also I want to add a few more too.

Quote:
Originally posted by Eo.S.

124 alone is more presets than I have posted above [119] by both myself and Phat combined.
I am seriously not trying to start drama, but you yourself have not posted any new presets in quite some time [10 since jan '04], and for the last two years have really only posted in the forum to plug R4, not to moderate or discuss milkdrop, so I'm not entirely sure why this is a decision up to you, rather than Tag.
Please How often do I mention R4 here.

I meanted it when I started doing stuff on it. I mention stuff I did on GForce in recent times too. But probably a couple of post in a couple of years. Not really all that excessive.

What have I been missing in the moderation of this forum?

Is there a thread that needed to be moderated and was not. Generaly not much needs to be done here. The last thread I had to moderate was in July last year.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=186325



And now in this thread tbh after some emails to me.

It is not totaly down to me I admit that. Newbie Tag (who hasn't worked out how to use his PMs) will get the final say.

We also have to take into consideration how complex the presets are and how they will work on slower computers. A lot of yours are complex and run slow on modest machines.

Say we increase the default mesh from the now chunky 32x24 to 48 the old maximum.

I would like to see MD run on a say 1Ghz machine with a GF3 in with a reasonable speed. It is all about balance.

There is no reason we cannot all be happy here.

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Old 15th June 2005, 13:14   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by unchained
Dammit Rova, try to stay on topic.
Sorry......

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Old 15th June 2005, 13:31   #93
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lets not forget that many people just install winamp over the top of an older install, so all the old presets wont be deleted anyway.

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Old 15th June 2005, 14:38   #94
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"I didn't see people like Aderrasi complaining that he had only 1 or 2 in the install of MilkDrop when he posted hundreds of them here many of them very good."

Well maybe he should have. I'm more complaining about already posting over a thousand and having none on the install at all. (Even when I submited them, just how you told us to)

"Please How often do I mention R4 here."

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....7&highlight=r4

You've only posted more R4 presets in here then milkdrop ones for at least a year... (not trying to get under you're skin, but if you going to break out old threads...)

"Lets not forget that many people just install winamp over the top of an older install, so all the old presets wont be deleted anyway."

I know that is EXACTLY the point. Thousands of people already have the older presets, and if they don't have them there could always be a section of milkdrop.co.uk or something simular that has the old school set.
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Old 15th June 2005, 17:05   #95
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Maybe i don't have a saying on this, since noone asked me to trim my stuff but i feel i must say some things...

first of all I find it meaningless trying to reduce the number of new presets when some have been included over and over again. As CraigF said, noone loses presets they already had, they just get more. I also like to see that rules apply to either all or noone, but some people just post more presets than others, can't help it... phat and eos had the courtesy to include stuff with other authors' names on them too; since you're asking them to reduce the number, the only reasonable thing for them to do (imo) would be to remove all that stuff and just include theirs. (i suppose that's what i'd do) I don't see how leaving great stuff out (in the name of a measly hundred kilobytes) is any good for MD.

Originally posted by Rovastar:
"I would like to see MD run on a say 1Ghz machine with a GF3 in with a reasonable speed. It is all about balance. "

Have you seen what AVS (with its bundled stuff) looks like on my 2.4ghz/RADEON9800? (You don't want to!)
Do we have to force our presets to mediocre so that they run decently on a dated pc?

I'm not trying to kick anyone out, or make myself a name with someone else's glory. I've only written no more than ~40 presets for v1.04 and i'd like to see my stuff in there just as much as anyone else but I reassure you, I won't think about it twice if i don't!

The idea here is to promote MD, and honestly, i don't see how shipping it with a ton of stuff for v1.01 is any kind of promotion! I unbderstand that there are rules to be respected, but if you want to show someone what MD can do TODAY, this is your stuff!

oh, and i don't get that money comment either!
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Old 15th June 2005, 17:46   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phat

"Please How often do I mention R4 here."

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....7&highlight=r4

Well done on finding the one thread from 2003. It was one big happy family in those days where we could post stuff like that.

The difference with AVS is that in general it is designed to run at a much lower res. If AVS shipped at 1024x768 res no pixel doubling then it would be different.

And with AVS there are presets shipped from a very long time ago when it was first created.

Leaving great stuff out is what we have to do anyway. Otherwise there would thousands of presets included.

I don't see how this is so difficult to understand. There will probably be 250 or 50% new presets in the new version anyway. I think that is the fairest solution. To remove all traces of old stuff is wrong IMHO. We have to grow and expand but newer doesn't always mean better.

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Old 15th June 2005, 21:17   #97
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This post is not meant to upset anyone. Rovastar said (The amount atm will increase the downlaod size of Winamp considerably). I think what it will all come to do is the download size of the new winamp 5.1. Just to point out that most the new presets are at least double the size of the most the old ones. Phat and Eo.S 119 pack unzipped is 1.39 megabytes and the 436 in winamp now unzipped is under a meg. So unless Tag is going to allow the download size of winamp to increase by at least a meg I think everyone is going to need to reduce the size of their packs. I could be wrong here. If Tag will tell us if their is a limit on size, which I believe their is going to be. Then we will have a better idea with what we are working with here. Unchained are you going to post yours? if you do don't leave out proper identification. SM
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Old 15th June 2005, 23:07   #98
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Unzipped size is not really significant here, zipped size is the number that contributes to download size when bundled into winamp.

As for performance, taking geforce 3 and 1Ghz computers into account is ridiculous. If you spend $400 on a computer [or buy anything from dell, gateway, or best buy] you will have machine that faster than either of ours. A radeon 9600se is $75, and an athlon xp 2700 with motherboard is $130, both are faster than either computer that myself or Phat use. Anyone who is still using a gf3 on a 1GHz box is not that concerned with graphics performance, you can't even play current games with any decent framerate on a machine that slow. By today's standards, geforce 4 or radeon 9600 and 2Ghz is a modest machine. If your framerate sucks, drop the resolution.

>If there are say 400 presets or so in the new
>install and you have 60 of them that is a
>significant chunk of them.

While we work together, Phat and I are NOT the same person, we are still separate authors.

As Tag is the official winamp developer, he is really the only person here that should have any definitive say on the number of presets included. Beyond that the distribution among authors needs to be agreed upon by the authors, and not up to the decision of any one of us [moderator or not]. If any one of us are limited to a specific number, that number should apply to everyone.

By today's standards there is a lot of CRAP in the bundled presets, the essence of Milkdrop is to be the sickest looking visualization out there, and dropping old presets that aren't up to snuff in no way denies that.

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Old 16th June 2005, 04:49   #99
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I'm with E. Arguing over the size of the download is rediculous..we're talking about a few dozen lines of bare text at the absolute max, in a day and age where a graphics driver update is a 20mb affair.

I'm as aware as anybody else about the issues of bloat and what can be lost with development and revision...hell I've often longed for the days when 64k was a ton of RAM, but they're long gone.

The point is to rock the world's nutsaq and then reload, not to maintain a dinosaur that crawls along great on Joe's 386 with no floating point chip. Lose all the standard zoom effects, the presets with 20 lines of code that doesn't actually do anything, and other kruft. If somebody wants v1.01 they can go dig for it.
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Old 16th June 2005, 07:54   #100
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This is my final 10 presets for winamp 5.1. Had to make a couple changes. SM
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Old 16th June 2005, 08:26   #101
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>If there are say 400 presets or so in the new install and you
>have 60 of them that is a significant chunk of them.

again, there are 426 in the current bundle, you have 124 of them.

>I do have a fair few in there Ryan choose them and
>not me...

Exactly, you may have not thought some were worth putting in, but someone else did...

>We have to grow and expand but newer doesn't always
>mean better.

always, no, in this case, for the most part, yes. The art of milkdrop has had the collaborative development of various authors over the last 2 years, who have been able to develop on more powerful hardware than 2yrs ago. Newer presets are capable of more. Like any art form, multiple contributors accelerate it's growth, and after 4 yrs of development, it will be more refined than it was at 2yrs of development.

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Old 16th June 2005, 15:41   #102
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I don't know... Everyone has a point... I guess we should wait for a final decision to be made and see what we do then. We're big boys, i think we'll work out sth
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Old 18th June 2005, 02:26   #103
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> We're big boys

and girl...
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Old 18th June 2005, 13:20   #104
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Just keep them coming. You've got about 10 days left (we'll need a couple of days to sort/prepare everything prior to July 1st).

Some very nice submissions so far

Remember, only presets posted in THIS thread will be used, so if there's any been posted in any other thread that you think might be worthy candidates, then please copy/reattach them here.

Thanks
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Old 18th June 2005, 18:06   #105
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and girl...
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Old 18th June 2005, 23:09   #106
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Well actually girls it you decide to include Mstress and Rozzer. SM
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Old 23rd June 2005, 20:42   #107
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Here are the trimmed ones from the orginal selection from about 450 to less than 300.

www.milkdrop.co.uk/trimmed.zip

I'll add a few more later.

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Old 23rd June 2005, 20:45   #108
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heres somemore from me
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Blah!
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Old 24th June 2005, 09:14   #109
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mmk, this should be my final pick - added a couple of new ones & reset the ratings to 3 - it's now 24 of mine and 2 remixs
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Old 30th June 2005, 13:14   #110
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sorry to cut this so close
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Old 30th June 2005, 15:47   #111
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2 more in case they don't post. One by Unchained and one by mstress that I modded. SM
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Old 30th June 2005, 23:12   #112
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Ok. Is that them all now?

If there's any more presets anywhere that anyone feels should be included, then you've still got a few more hours to post them here. Other than that, I think we're almost there (just gotta sort thru them all now).

A big thanks to everyone. This is definitely gonna rock!

______________________________________________


@ Rovastar

So you (and everyone else here) agree that your trimmed.zip of the original presets should still be included, but all the other ones should be removed from the default distro, yes?
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Old 1st July 2005, 04:49   #113
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so are you actually filtering through the submissions? Or just including everything that's been posted here for submission?

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Old 1st July 2005, 05:20   #114
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Here are 2 more, if it's not to late.
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Old 1st July 2005, 13:33   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg


@ Rovastar

So you (and everyone else here) agree that your trimmed.zip of the original presets should still be included, but all the other ones should be removed from the default distro, yes?
I think they should for history and all that, also it can help newcomers to MilkDrop to start with soem basic ones and then grow into something more complex.

Also they are small in size and I know some might say size doesn't matter.....but Ryan was told by Nullsoft in the past that he had to keep the size down.....

The trimmed ones average about 1-2KB a preset whereas new ones average a lot more over 10-15KB (even up to 30KB) (due to more stuff goinmg off and the way they are saved in 1.04)

I was going to add a few newer ones of mine maybe if I get time in the next hour or so. If not in the next release.

Additionaly have all the Milkdrop docuimentation & ini files been added? They have been missing of the last year.......
Add me to teh beta team will you Egg.

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Old 3rd July 2005, 00:46   #116
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So when is this new version of winamp comming out?
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Old 4th July 2005, 18:09   #117
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I don't think it is quite ready yet. I want to make sure all teh ini files and stuff are there too. Doing that now.

And here are a few from me (about a dozen) new since last release. I probably have more but that is all for now

http://www.milkdrop.co.uk/downloads/...or_5point1.zip

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Old 4th July 2005, 18:27   #118
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Ok these files are also missing from the Winamp distro.

www.milkdrop.co.uk/Downloads/missing.zip

They are:

Milk_img.ini 13 KB (sprire/images config file)
milk_Msg.ini 6 KB (Text messges config file)
milkdrop.html 61KB (This is already with the Winamp distro but I have updated it with the new authors in the credits)
milkdrop_preset_authoring.html 49KB (documentation reference for creating presets)
q_and_t_vars.gif 46 KB (a pic to go with the preset authoring documenation)

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Old 4th July 2005, 18:54   #119
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I guess I'm only included in the "...and to everyone else who has contributed." section...

Because, ofcourse, I'm only a minor contributor.

::rolls eyes HARD::

But I guess what is on the screen in milkdrop is most important..

Btw Rovastar, did you see my recent remixes of you're Fractopia Unspoken Mix? The Speak When Spoken 3 remix?

O well, does anyone know when this winamp will be comming out or does no one presently know?
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Old 4th July 2005, 19:19   #120
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Sorry about that I did add you but it was there fro soem reason :/

All sorted now.

I can't remember what mixes I have seen not I much chance to go through them detail yet.

Don't know the date. These things get set back sometimes. I imagine in teh next couple of weeks.

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