Old 26th May 2003, 04:53   #41
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his name his fazer, not hitler, and my friend, you are quite the sheltered and ignorant fellow arn't you?
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Old 26th May 2003, 04:59   #42
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XD. He's not exactly the Smartest Peanut in the Turd, as Bloodhound Gang would say.

Well, I'm not going to go so far as to flame, because I don't hate the guy. He just seems like the type to not use the search feature before posting a new topic.


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Old 26th May 2003, 10:53   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazer
Everybody's Biased. ANd Biased opinions don't mean shit in the long run.
i'd almost agree, if that didn't inextricably apply that opinions "don't mean shit". that's not something i believe.

i thought that was the buddhist symbol. a more interesting question is, why is it in your avatar? i find it hard to believe that it's in there because it's a symbol of peace, or of buddhism, alone. it's in there to stir shit, isn't it?

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Old 26th May 2003, 15:14   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
it's in there to stir shit, isn't it?

I hope so /ebil laugh
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Old 26th May 2003, 17:24   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazer
Yes, finally a moron I get to make an ass of.
u'v been waiting for that for awhile, i'd almost blew the whisle on u the first time i saw u'r avatar in skinlove but then i realized it was the the other symble that is the inverse of the swastika (thought it happens to also be in many other culturs a symbol of love and good fourture) but i hate the swastika b/c in international fourms it can be, and would certainly be offenceive to someone.
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Old 26th May 2003, 19:23   #46
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Fazer : Youve got your facts wrong. The swastika is a hindu sybmol and was adopted by Buddhists much later. It's esentially still a hindu symbol.

e-raser: how the hell can it be offensive? It's a holy symbol.
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Old 26th May 2003, 21:18   #47
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No Zootm, believe it or not, it really is a symbol of peace and well-being, though I knew the likely reprocussions of my having this holy symbol in my avatar. People find religion to be a bad thing, so I've been asked my a moderator who doesn't know about what the swastika is, stands for, or which way the arms move in the nazi swastika, to remove it. I've sent him a reply and I'm waiting for a reply to my own before, I presume, being banned for religion, being forced to remove my religious avatar, or being understood.

I don't like "Stirring shit" and I don't like being the center of attention for negative things. I much prefer being left alone in some aspects, like religion, and I just find that this is a largely misunderstood symbol, which people refuse to learn the origins of, because they don't enjoy learning.

I apologize if it came off that way.

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Old 26th May 2003, 21:31   #48
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just b/c one culture sees no offencive nature to a symble dose not erase th fact that hisoricaly this symbol was used to rally the pple of the nazi party who were responsible for killing 6 million jews and vertualy eradicating the gyipsys and killing millions of other nationalites. would you be so insensitive to simply through those facts to the side and expect that all pple fell neutral twords such a symble, its like giving the middle finger to your grandmother expecting her to know that in indian cultures that means hello (made up example)

dont know why pple try to be so dame politicaly correct these days. there are levels to inanimate and conceptual ideas that go beyond the symple definition and facts, thats why i would find it very offencive if someone would actualy have a swastika as an avatar, i'd demand that such a avatar be removed from these fourms, this is't buddah.com you know.
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Old 26th May 2003, 21:36   #49
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just to clarify that i'm not refering to the revers swastica, just to the one nazi germany used
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Old 26th May 2003, 22:26   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by e-raser
just b/c one culture sees no offencive nature to a symble dose not erase th fact that hisoricaly this symbol was used to rally the pple of the nazi party who were responsible for killing 6 million jews and vertualy eradicating the gyipsys and killing millions of other nationalites. would you be so insensitive to simply through those facts to the side and expect that all pple fell neutral twords such a symble, its like giving the middle finger to your grandmother expecting her to know that in indian cultures that means hello (made up example)

dont know why pple try to be so dame politicaly correct these days. there are levels to inanimate and conceptual ideas that go beyond the symple definition and facts, thats why i would find it very offencive if someone would actualy have a swastika as an avatar, i'd demand that such a avatar be removed from these fourms, this is't buddah.com you know.
Just because a few cultures see offence in a symbol used for hundreds of years by many groups of people does not erase the fact that historically this sumbol doesn't have anything to do with that other culture. Would you be so insensitive to simply throw those facts to the side and expect that people, whom have for hundreds of years used that symbol, "Get With It" and accept the fact that people hate them for their religious symbol? Especially when they don't look the exact same. The Middle Finger is the Middle Finger. The Reverse Swastica used by Nazi Germany from 1910-1945 is NOT The same as the Swastica used by multiple religions used for hundreds of years.

That's like saying that people should stop using crosses because it's almost like the upside down cross, which offends people.

And it's spelled Buddha, have some respect for Christe's sake


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Old 26th May 2003, 22:27   #51
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Just to clarify that I'm not refering to e-rasers post, just to the any posts that may come up like this in the future.


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Old 27th May 2003, 00:09   #52
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Unfortunately, the majority of people you will meet are not educated enough to know the real meaning of such a symbol. Oh and, to be honest, saying that Russia or the USA or the UK were the main players is silly really. All we know is what happened. Whatifs are a means unto an end.

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Old 27th May 2003, 00:53   #53
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I am almsot tempted to haev my penguin wave a confederate flag jsut to see what would happen.....
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Old 27th May 2003, 01:18   #54
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whoa. dont check your email for a few days, and see what you miss.

i knew the swastika was a symbol in many other cultures, but, admittedly, i didnt look to see if the arms were pointing one way or another. for your edification, it has also been used as a native american symbol. even though it is an important symbol to many cultures, you must have known what people would think when you put it up. ESPECIALLY when you are posting in a forum about ww2, of course im going to take it in that context without thinking twice.

i may have jumped the bait a little, but you knew what you were getting into when you put it up, man.

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Old 27th May 2003, 10:59   #55
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Being an indian i dont like what you guys are saying about Swastika, its a symbol of worship and we worship it. Its not a nazi symbol or anything


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Old 27th May 2003, 11:13   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ishan_Rocky
Its not a nazi symbol or anything
reversed, it's a nazi symbol. that's just something you're going to have to deal with.

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Old 27th May 2003, 19:53   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by oNaMiSsIo
that happened because america wanted it to. we were already worried about the spread of communism near the end of ww2, so part of the rationale for using the bomb was to keep the russians out by ending that part of the war before russia could get involved.
Or, we used it to scare the Soviet Union. I know that if I was Stalin, and I saw what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I would be kissing America's ass.
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Old 27th May 2003, 22:30   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by insomniac
Or, we used it to scare the Soviet Union. I know that if I was Stalin, and I saw what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I would be kissing America's ass.
i concur. lets try to get this forum off the swastika and back onto russia in ww2.

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Old 28th May 2003, 08:56   #59
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Are'nt any russians here?


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Old 28th May 2003, 19:26   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
reversed, it's a nazi symbol. that's just something you're going to have to deal with.
Not really. It's not his fault some German racist decided to use a symbol that's similar to his holy one. It's not his fault that people on this forum are not educated enough to know what it means.

e-raser : Your comparison is flawed. The nazi symbol and the swastiva arent the same. To use your example : you would prolly be giving your grandma the index finger. Dosent mean the same thing.

I know this isn't Buddha.com nut it isn't Jew.com either. This is an international forum.

As for the war : Every country had a part to play in it. There's no point in discussing the ifs and buts.
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Old 28th May 2003, 20:29   #61
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while we're on the subject of hitler stealing stuff... (desperately trying to get the conversation back on track)

hitler stole his one-hand slaute and eagle standards from the roman centurions. anything else you guys can think of that he stole from other cultures?

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Old 28th May 2003, 20:49   #62
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OH GOD, one hand salute and an EAGLE. AMERICANS BE DAMNED.


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Old 28th May 2003, 20:55   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by oNaMiSsIo
whoa. dont check your email for a few days, and see what you miss.

i knew the swastika was a symbol in many other cultures, but, admittedly, i didnt look to see if the arms were pointing one way or another. for your edification, it has also been used as a native american symbol. even though it is an important symbol to many cultures, you must have known what people would think when you put it up. ESPECIALLY when you are posting in a forum about ww2, of course im going to take it in that context without thinking twice.

i may have jumped the bait a little, but you knew what you were getting into when you put it up, man.

http://www.geocities.com/angryindian/page5.html
Okay, let me think for a second...


...you didn't take the time out of your day to look at the hands my "anti-semetic avatar" were pointed, but you took the time out of your day to (I think) report me, flame me, post multiple other posts afterwords, and look up all this information about the origins of the swastika.

/me = baffled


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Old 28th May 2003, 20:59   #64
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no, the specific one that the nazis did.. i didnt want to describe it and take forever for something i thought everyone would understand

nazi standard http://www.museumofworldwarii.com/im...rwache_lge.jpg

roman standard http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/notgreek/romstanr.gif

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Old 28th May 2003, 21:02   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazer
Okay, let me think for a second...


...you didn't take the time out of your day to look at the hands my "anti-semetic avatar" were pointed, but you took the time out of your day to (I think) report me, flame me, post multiple other posts afterwords, and look up all this information about the origins of the swastika.

/me = baffled
1. i didnt report you (dont even know how)
2. where did i flame you? ( i think calling me someone you can make an ass out of is flaming really)
3. multiple posts, if you read them, clarify my thoughts and defend myself.
4. looking up information was for my own good. if im wrong about something, i want to know why so i can understand

no one is out to get you man. stop being paranoid

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Old 28th May 2003, 21:04   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazer
OH GOD, one hand salute and an EAGLE. AMERICANS BE DAMNED.
seriously man, what do you have against me? i took umbrage at a symbol i thought was a swastika, (i later backed down when i realized it wasnt) and which you deliberately put up to trap someone like me (yes you did--- remember "finally, someone i can make an ass out of")

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Old 28th May 2003, 21:40   #67
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Not really. It's not his fault some German racist decided to use a symbol that's similar to his holy one. It's not his fault that people on this forum are not educated enough to know what it means.
true, but the problem is that reversed, it is the symbol of the nazi regime. whether or not it should cause offence is a different thing altogether, but to say it's not the symbol of the nazis is foolish. it is.

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Old 29th May 2003, 04:24   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by oNaMiSsIo
seriously man, what do you have against me? i took umbrage at a symbol i thought was a swastika, (i later backed down when i realized it wasnt) and which you deliberately put up to trap someone like me (yes you did--- remember "finally, someone i can make an ass out of")
The fact that you called me hitler kind of did it for me. I don't have anything against you personally, I would have said the same thing to anyone that posted that same thing. Just because someone has "backed down" doesn't make it okay for them to compare you to a diabolical genocidal maniac of sorts and then you not say anything back to them.


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Old 29th May 2003, 04:36   #69
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true, but the problem is that reversed, it is the symbol of the nazi regime. whether or not it should cause offence is a different thing altogether, but to say it's not the symbol of the nazis is foolish. it is.
You reverse the cross and it's the upside down cross, which is a symbol the of anti-christians. They look similair but they have different meanings, should the cross be banned from the forums, because it might look like it's upside down to some forumers?


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Old 29th May 2003, 10:45   #70
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i didn't say ban it from the forums, did i?

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Old 29th May 2003, 12:57   #71
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Always remember, this forum is primarily a software support forum hosted by a company wishing to remain in business. Freedom of speech and expression only extends so far. Fazer was asked by a moderator to remove it, and he did, so as far as the moderating team is concerned he's ok by us. But Nullsoft doesn't need to be defending it's members' freedom of speech or it's own right to operate in the US when some human rights group gets it's panties in a bunch over some members 50x50 pixel avatar. So it's entirely within Nullsoft's right to ask that members maintain a certain respectability when they are using Nullsofts bandwidth and servers. Whether you or I agree with what they ask is irrelevent: if I really don't like it I'm free to leave, but otherwise I think I ought to respect my hosts enough to do what they ask.


So yes, regardless of the the symbology, were a cross upsetting a large enough portion of the forum, upside down or not, a moderator would likely ask a person to stop using it. We don't want to censor everything and anything, but we would like to continue having forums.winamp.com to enjoy, and thus we protect it's interests.

Calling people names, especially german dictators, isn't exactly a great example of WHY we want to protect the forum, on the other hand. Avoiding that kind of reaction to something that is possibly offensive would be a wise thing for all of us to do.

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Old 29th May 2003, 14:58   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by watadoo
Fun fact about perception and symbols: When US school kids said this country's pledge of allegiance, many many years ago -- prior to the Spanish Civil war, WWII and the rise of Fascism -- they used to hold out one hand in what we now think of as the Fascist salute, thanks to Mussolini. The hand over the heart didn't come into play until the late 40's early 50's.

hm...i did not know that. interesting.
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Old 29th May 2003, 16:08   #73
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If by any means the fighting going on around here was because of me i apologise.


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Old 29th May 2003, 20:45   #74
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no, ishan, it wasn't. nice of you to offer though. it was all fazer and i. i hereby apologize to fazer for calling him hitler when i thought he had a swastika for an avatar. perhaps he would find it in his great big heart to forgive me and even apologize himself.

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Old 30th May 2003, 13:18   #75
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Yeah bro', I'll forgive you.

I apologize too <.<


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Old 30th May 2003, 17:37   #76
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Old 30th May 2003, 20:47   #77
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Isnt it soo nice to see everyone get along so nicely?
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Old 30th May 2003, 22:49   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by watadoo
Fun fact about perception and symbols: When US school kids said this country's pledge of allegiance, many many years ago -- prior to the Spanish Civil war, WWII and the rise of Fascism -- they used to hold out one hand in what we now think of as the Fascist salute, thanks to Mussolini. The hand over the heart didn't come into play until the late 40's early 50's.
thats really cool.... i had no idea.

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Old 31st May 2003, 08:16   #79
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yeah that's interesting


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Old 31st May 2003, 16:03   #80
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the stupid who say's Russia won ww2 he/she should not have knowledge about history.
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