Old 20th October 2007, 17:09   #1
nrgetic
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album art/tags in 5.5

Hi guys... poked around the forums a bit but couldn't find an answer so i figured i asked. with 5.5... does it store tags/album art in its own database or does it write directly to the file? i know in previous versions this was done in its own db. so far it seems like it still writes to its own database :-/ if it writes to its own db does anyone know of any plugins that write the tags and art to the file? i hate forgetting to backup the db file when I reinstall the OS and lose everything i've labeled so far.. pretty much the only reason why I use the other evil player so far.
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Old 20th October 2007, 17:27   #2
soulstace
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When you edit a tag, it is stored directly to the file (at least for mp3s). Album art is stored as %album%.jpg, in the same directory as the album.

So no, you should not lose tags or album art if you forget to backup the Winamp database.
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Old 20th October 2007, 20:46   #3
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If you edit metadata info from the File Info box then it will be saved to the tags in the file (assuming you use a working plugin (all bundled plugins do with the execption of formats that dont have metadata (wav, midi, etc.))). If you edit metadata from the Media Library, it might save it to the file depending on whether you check the box labeled "Update file tag(s) if supported"

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Old 25th October 2007, 07:02   #4
jumbodancer
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Album art & Big Bento

The way that I get Album Art into Big Bento is as follows
1 load audio into library window
2 Click on File Info
3 then click load art work which takes you into another window which invites you to load a picture. Go to where you have this picture file stored then write a name for it at the bottom of this window and save it.
Click copy and then paste. You will have to click on the paste tab as many times as you have tracks. The window will flash on each press and then stop when you have pressed for all the tracks. Clear window next time that you look at thee details the picture will be attached.
It was a pity that the metadata tag for art work wasn't included in the file data. this would have saved a lot of hair tearing.
I hope that you can make sense of all this

Jumbodancer
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Old 28th October 2007, 19:14   #5
addison
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I've notice something strange with this feature.
Before Winamp 5.5, i was using ID3-TagIT 3 for taging mp3s. It works great with album covers and that kind of stuff even when you load the mp3 on your iPod.

But then i try use the editor inside WinAmp 5.5 through View File Info --> Artwork --> Load Arkwork etc neither ID3-TagIT 3 nor my iPod recognize the cover artwork.

Who knows something about this?
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Old 28th October 2007, 20:18   #6
DJ Egg
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Quote:
Originally posted by soulstace
Album art is stored as %album%.jpg, in the same directory as the album.
ie. it's NOT stored as embedded art in the actual file tags...
which is why external editors won't see it (unless they support and are configured to see %album%.jpg files in the containing folder).

As for iPod, you need to (re)sync the mp3's with Winamp/pmp_ipod after, and then the iPod will see the art.
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Old 28th October 2007, 21:20   #7
addison
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thanks DJ!
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Old 8th November 2007, 18:28   #8
jim2664258
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
ie. it's NOT stored as embedded art in the actual file tags...
which is why external editors won't see it (unless they support and are configured to see %album%.jpg files in the containing folder).
Know if there are any plans to add an option to embed the artwork in the mp3 file? This is keeping me from using what is otherwise a really nice feature.
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Old 9th November 2007, 17:03   #9
PatrickNeil
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Slightly off topic question: is there any way to sort files (albums?) by those with or those without album art? Perhaps a 3rd party program that could make me a list of which are still missing art?
Thanks,
Patrick
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Old 17th April 2008, 01:42   #10
Anvil
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jim2664258 left this question 6 months ago:

Quote:
Originally posted by jim2664258
Know if there are any plans to add an option to embed the artwork in the mp3 file? This is keeping me from using what is otherwise a really nice feature.
There hasn't been a reply to it, and I was wondering the exact same thing myself.
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Old 17th April 2008, 02:42   #11
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Maybe one day, but not at the moment.

You'd need to convince us of the benefit of embedding the same image into e.g. all 10 files on the album, when you can just have one image in the containing folder instead.
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Old 17th April 2008, 15:33   #12
nrgetic
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the advantage of doing so is that this binds you to use specific folder structure... i think the way file storage is headed is database driven where files may be in different folders.

for example what if you sort your tunes by an artist on a title that contains various artists... it wont work.

i see your point where one image for all songs is more efficient than embedding the image in every song. if winamp supported this option (file embedded art) along with embedding file ratings into the file as well it'd be the ultimate player for me. right now i'm really split between the media library functionality of WMP11 and the sound quality (with plugins) of winamp... can't have both atm.
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Old 17th April 2008, 15:51   #13
DJ Egg
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"for example what if you sort your tunes by an artist on a title that contains various artists... it wont work."

Hmm, not sure if I understand you...

You mean if the album is a compilation?

All my compilations are stored in: Music\Various Artists\%Album%\...

I place the cover.jpg file in the album folder

I set the 'Album Artist' field in the tags to 'Various Artists', leaving the individual track 'Artist' fields as they are...

and everything works wonderfully.


Winamp will see/read embedded art, but not write it.
So you could use some external editor to embed the art, and Winamp will then see it.

But as it stands, we still see no benefit of embedding album art, and therefore have no reason to promote/encourage it. As far as I'm concerned, it's just unnecessary bloat.

The only benefit I know is that there's some 'internet-only' type non-commercial/download albums out there, which have a different embedded art image for each separate track (c/o iTunes). Winamp will see said images in the relevant areas when playing each track (e.g. in the Coverart tab of the Alt+3 File Info Editor, or in the Bento mcv->File Info area), but alas, it will only show the image from the first track as the Album cover in an Album Art view in the Media Library. So again, where Winamp is concerned, this defeats the main purpose... not to mention that these types of albums are few and far between (in comparison to the vast commercial album output generally available).
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Old 8th June 2008, 23:25   #14
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What if Winamp supported the option to embed/un-embed ratings and album art? Leave it to the user to decide if they care whether or not it causes extra bloat to the file size. I use Winamp to load files to my iriver clix, but the clix will not read images from a folder. So the only way to transfer ratings and album art is to have it embedded. Windows media player embeds, but doesn't give you the option to remove/change it. Windows also embeds the rating. Winamp doesn't. I like those two features in WMP, but I don't like using WMP. I like the functionality of Winamp better.

As a suggestion, I see where you can add a button in the Artwork tab of the Alt-3 File Info Editor to embed art. There is already a remove feature there. Secondly, I don't think it would add much "bloat" for the file to carry the rating. If a user decides to rate his files, then let him do so. If it takes to much space, he can say, remove ratings from all files, except for 5 stars, or 1 stars.
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Old 11th July 2008, 12:01   #15
jim2664258
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Yes, this gets my vote to make optional as well. I wouldn't call wanting all the file data to be stored inside a single file as 'bloat', even though I do understand that for albums it is more inefficient. Is hard disk space really that precious anymore?

I think if you organized your collection completely by album, whether or not you actually had the whole album, it would be fine to do it either way. But if you kept all your music in a single directory, and you had more than one 'Greatest Hits' album, you'd have to come up with some way of getting that name to be unique in order to get the right album art with the right album. This was actually the reason I started embedding album art in the first place. The other is just plain tidiness - everything is right in the file.

Just my opinion. Seems enough people want this feature it should be considered a little more. Surely there are other features that are not completely elegant that have been added due to popularity. Asking people to organize their collection on disk in a certain directory structure is a very 'Apple' thing to do, if that makes sense.
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Old 12th July 2008, 13:16   #16
jim2664258
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Also - Winamp will display album art if it is embedded, but won't allow you to embed album art. That's inconsistent.
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Old 12th July 2008, 13:30   #17
niktheguru
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If you guys want an excellent file tagger (and general organiser for your music files) give Tag and Rename a try. Its a lifesaver.

http://www.softpointer.com/tr.htm#features

I've been using it for sometime now, as I too like to embed the album art into the file itself rather than folder. Especially when you have loads of singles, and not albums.

Nikhil
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Old 25th August 2008, 04:57   #18
Aztroboy
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Half Baked

Different users have different preferences.

It seems half baked to create such useful and easily accessible tagging options, but not allow for the popular function of file-embedding. Other programs offer it for a good reason.

An example is I want to load my Nokia phone with music, its music manager program on the PC doesn't copy album art from directories, but it supports embedded album art on the device. There are a lot of 3rd party MP3 players around. (yes could set up winamp to x'fer with customised settings)

Taking the Black Holes and Revelations cover art that Winamp currently has on its ad page for v5.5 for example - its 9kb in size. Average song size is about 6MB, that makes the cover art approx 0.0015 of a song.

I have about 20GB of songs, it would cost 30mb to embed.

I have 30mb to spare, I opt for the succint nature and convenience of embedding.

All well versed music folk have the meta-data of artist/album redundantly embedded in songs on the same album by the same artist. I propose the album art, though many times larger than the simple text, is essentially insignifant to store also.

Last edited by Aztroboy; 25th August 2008 at 05:36.
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Old 28th August 2008, 11:21   #19
tyrd
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg ...
But as it stands, we still see no benefit of embedding album art, and therefore have no reason to promote/encourage it. As far as I'm concerned, it's just unnecessary bloat.
....


what about portable mp3 players?
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Old 31st August 2008, 23:23   #20
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Not to mention the fact that hard drive space is not really an issue like it used to be.
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Old 1st September 2008, 03:44   #21
tyrd
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not an issue at all, I have two 1Tb Hard drives already, and they are very cheap.
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Old 14th September 2008, 04:33   #22
Anvil
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Also, along with the album art, there should be a way to include song rating, embedded in the metadata. I like to rate my songs, even on a per album basis. I'm sure there are others who would agree that not all songs, regardless of how much you appreciate the artist, are of equal rating. I know I have CDs in which I may only like between 2 and 5 songs. This way, I could sort my entire database by rating and only move 5-star songs to my mp3 player. And the player would correctly display the rating of my songs.
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Old 20th September 2008, 17:46   #23
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I wanted to add this as an edit, but I exceeded the time limit to do so. Anyways, another fact that adds to my point of being able to embed the rating to the file: I had to rebuild my library after renaming the folder I use to store all my music. After which, none of my ratings were retained. Now I have to go through and re-rate all my music. I know that not EVERYone does this, but I also know that I'm not the only one. The odds of that... I would have won the lotto with better odds.
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Old 28th April 2009, 14:19   #24
zielwolf
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Quote:
Originally posted by nrgetic
the advantage of doing so is that this binds you to use specific folder structure... i think the way file storage is headed is database driven where files may be in different folders.

for example what if you sort your tunes by an artist on a title that contains various artists... it wont work.

i see your point where one image for all songs is more efficient than embedding the image in every song. if winamp supported this option (file embedded art) along with embedding file ratings into the file as well it'd be the ultimate player for me. right now i'm really split between the media library functionality of WMP11 and the sound quality (with plugins) of winamp... can't have both atm.

I totally agree. Saving one image per album in the folder where the album is stored makes a massive assumption - that everyone carefully and meticulously stores every track in folders by album title by artist. But I wouldn't bother with this if I didn't have to thanks to album art being stored this way (I like my album art a lot). After all that's what media library databases are supposed to be for, so I can in theory just dump all my music files in one big folder called "music" without having to sort everything by artist and then by album title. It's an incredible amount of work keeping my music folders organized and clean and even so more than 10% of my tracks, well over 1000 aren't stored in artist folders/album sub-folders as they're just single tracks off an album stored in big "miscellaneous" folders. Sorting all these would take forever and album art in these big "all the rest folders is a big mess thanks to not being able to store art by embedding it in the file.

Also, for my favourite albums I like to store separate cover art for the singles off that album as well as the album cover art and this usually causes big hassles because album art is not stored as file metadata. Often changing the art for one track changes it for all the tracks on that album which wasn't what I wanted - I just wanted a single track's artwork changed.
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Old 13th June 2009, 19:22   #25
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It would be nice to have the art embedded on my new Sony e438F player as this is the only way it sees the artwork. With the player UI there is always an image for each song, since I ripping everything with Winamp, all I get is the Sony logo for all my music. Would be nice if it was an option that the user could choose. Would also be nice if Winamp could automatically go out and find the album art along with the title/artist data when you are ripping music.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 13th June 2009, 21:05   #26
kabutar
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
"for example what if you sort your tunes by an artist on a title that contains various artists... it wont work."

Hmm, not sure if I understand you...

You mean if the album is a compilation?

All my compilations are stored in: Music\Various Artists\%Album%\...

I place the cover.jpg file in the album folder

I set the 'Album Artist' field in the tags to 'Various Artists', leaving the individual track 'Artist' fields as they are...

and everything works wonderfully.


Winamp will see/read embedded art, but not write it.
So you could use some external editor to embed the art, and Winamp will then see it.

But as it stands, we still see no benefit of embedding album art, and therefore have no reason to promote/encourage it. As far as I'm concerned, it's just unnecessary bloat.

The only benefit I know is that there's some 'internet-only' type non-commercial/download albums out there, which have a different embedded art image for each separate track (c/o iTunes). Winamp will see said images in the relevant areas when playing each track (e.g. in the Coverart tab of the Alt+3 File Info Editor, or in the Bento mcv->File Info area), but alas, it will only show the image from the first track as the Album cover in an Album Art view in the Media Library. So again, where Winamp is concerned, this defeats the main purpose... not to mention that these types of albums are few and far between (in comparison to the vast commercial album output generally available).
I have a lot of songs that are just that - songs. I don't like or want the whole album, so I don't keep it. Storing one image for each of those songs would be a MASSIVE headache.

And it's nice to have the images embedded in the file, as opposed to having to make sure to save the images in the directory, or make sure they're named the right way, etc. It just gives a lot more peace of mind to have everything embedded.

But the individual songs are the real thing. I can't have 800 image files for 800 individual songs - that's crazy!
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Old 13th June 2009, 21:28   #27
Greg_E
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My only reason is that my portable isn't as sophisticated as Winamp so it doesn't know how to deal with images in the folders. Any suggestions on a tag editor that will do batch edits and embed the artwork from the folder into each m4a file? Is there a plugin that will do the job (searched but didn't find anything)?

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 14th June 2009, 02:21   #28
Greg_E
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mp3tag with this tutorial seems to work OK for me so far:
http://www.geektonic.com/2008/02/aut...-to-large.html

Use %album%.jpg for the wildcard.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 14th June 2009, 12:00   #29
tyrd
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anvil
Also, along with the album art, there should be a way to include song rating, embedded in the metadata. I like to rate my songs, even on a per album basis. I'm sure there are others who would agree that not all songs, regardless of how much you appreciate the artist, are of equal rating. I know I have CDs in which I may only like between 2 and 5 songs. This way, I could sort my entire database by rating and only move 5-star songs to my mp3 player. And the player would correctly display the rating of my songs.

I believe song rating is not a id2v2 standard.
compilation flag yes/no, is also a nice feature that it's not a standard, itunes uses it, but not winamp.

for me, embed art, compilation flag, and embed song/album rating are neccesary features, but...
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Old 31st August 2010, 05:20   #30
Anvil
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Quote:
for me, embed art, compilation flag, and embed song/album rating are neccesary features, but...
But what? I agree with you tyrd. I think being able to embed these features would be great. I know that it's not an idv2 tag standard, but why not?
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