Old 3rd July 2006, 17:47   #201
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
Just got my camera and gear yesterday when I was in Chattanooga again. Haven't had a whole lot of time to play with it yet, but this thing kicks ass. I'm really glad I got the battery grip for it, too. It adds a lot of stability to the whole camera, and it's easy to find rechargable AA batteries for it. The Image Stabalizer in this lens is awesome, too. I'll get pictures a little bit later.

Also, I want to say thanks to everyone that's helped me pick all of this gear out. I really appreciate it.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2006, 05:05   #202
STanger
Senior Member
 
STanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Memphis TN
Posts: 399
Send a message via AIM to STanger Send a message via Yahoo to STanger
yo sarge! glad to hear that u like the new camera gear!
STanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2006, 00:51   #203
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837


I'm thinking about getting another 2GB card for it just like the one I've already got, as well. Just this past weekend, when I got the camera, I put a GB of pictures on the card just playing around with it. So, if I ever decide to take it out and do some serious shooting, I'm going to need more space. I'm thinking about getting an internal card reader for my computer, too. It's quite a pain to hook the camera up with the USB cable every time I want to transfer pictures, and it's slow as hell anyways. I was looking at these three readers. Got any other suggestions maybe? I always appreciate suggestions.

I also need to get a nice carry case for my tripod. I'd like to find one with some padding (doesn't have to be a lot, but at least some), is primarily black in color, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2006, 02:16   #204
dlichterman
Forum King
 
dlichterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Where Hell Froze Over
Posts: 2,466
If you are going to have to open your computer to put something internal in, get something like this:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=SP-BA-N

I love it!!!

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
dlichterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2006, 03:47   #205
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
I wish I could, but all four of my 5.25" bays are being used. The only free bay I have left is one 3.5" bay.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2006, 03:50   #206
dlichterman
Forum King
 
dlichterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Where Hell Froze Over
Posts: 2,466
Well that just sucks for you. Buy a new case.

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
dlichterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2006, 03:57   #207
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
I've already put well over $2,000 into just the tower alone. That doesn't include the dual LCD monitors. I'm not going to get another case just to install a card reader. :P
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2006, 23:28   #208
Razzinno
Piffle Producer
 
Razzinno's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: the secret files of my pc
Posts: 2,588
I've read this thread since its inception with only a passing interest. After all, I had two digital and two 35mm cameras already. That was until Wedneday when someone(s) stole my latest digital camera, wallet, and other items from my truck (those back windows are not secure!) Now I'm looking at Sarge's list with keen interest:
The main thing I'm balking at is the lens. Right now it just sets the total too high for comfort. Hopefully next week though I'll order the camera and a couple other items.

I'm glad Sarge did all the homework for me.
Razzinno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2006, 23:43   #209
SSJ4 Gogitta
Followed by Gnomes
(Forum King)
 
SSJ4 Gogitta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: West Virginia Googolplex: 10^10¹°° FB:/SSJ4.DominusDeus DeviantArt: DominusDeus XboX GT: A Wild Meeseeks Playstation 4: DominusDeus
Posts: 7,161
Send a message via AIM to SSJ4 Gogitta
Quote:
Originally posted by sgtfuzzbubble99
I've already put well over $2,000 into just the tower alone. That doesn't include the dual LCD monitors. I'm not going to get another case just to install a card reader. :P
Case + Dremel = case mod

SSJ4 Gogitta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2006, 00:18   #210
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
@ razzinno:
Sorry to hear about your camera and wallet. If that lens is too much, this one is a good alternative. It's focal length range isn't quite as wide, but it still has the long top end zoom length. It doesn't have Image Stabalization, but it does have the USM autofocus drive system. It's also got a rear-mounted focusing ring, so the lens doesn't rotate at the front when focused. And since it's EF-Mount, it's compatible with all of Canon's dSLR cameras, including the smaller-framed cameras like the Rebel XT and 30D. So, if you decide to get a full-frame dSLR in the future, this lens will be compatible. Another lens you might want to consider in this focal length category is this one. It doesn't have the rear focusing ring like the other, but it has a wider focal length range (same as the lens I bought). It's also got USM, which is good. Both of these lenses should be 1/2 to 2/3 the price of mine, depending on where you get them.


@ SSJ4:
Yes, but I like this case too much to ruin it with my lackluster skills. :P And after doing some more math, talking a bit with techsupp0rt on IRC, and doing a couple benchmark tests, I've come to the conclusion that it won't be any faster to put the card in a card reader. The only advantage to get a card reader at this point would be to cut back on the hassle of using a USB cable to connect the camera. :\
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2006, 00:22   #211
SSJ4 Gogitta
Followed by Gnomes
(Forum King)
 
SSJ4 Gogitta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: West Virginia Googolplex: 10^10¹°° FB:/SSJ4.DominusDeus DeviantArt: DominusDeus XboX GT: A Wild Meeseeks Playstation 4: DominusDeus
Posts: 7,161
Send a message via AIM to SSJ4 Gogitta
That's the reason I got a card reader for my desktop. Though since I've given my old camera to my mom, both of my new(er) cameras use SD cards, and my laptop has a built in SD reader on the front of it.

SSJ4 Gogitta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2006, 00:31   #212
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
When I picked out all the parts for this computer, I specifically made sure that this motherboard was supposed to support Hi-Speed USB. It was advertised as that, but when I got it, I found out that it only supports Full-Speed. Go figure.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2006, 00:31   #213
gaekwad2
Foorum King
 
gaekwad2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: bar2000
Posts: 11,424
Quote:
Originally posted by razzinno
I've read this thread since its inception with only a passing interest. After all, I had two digital and two 35mm cameras already. That was until Wedneday when someone(s) stole my latest digital camera, wallet, and other items from my truck (those back windows are not secure!) Now I'm looking at Sarge's list with keen interest:

The main thing I'm balking at is the lens. Right now it just sets the total too high for comfort.
If you need IS/antishake and can wait a while, both the Sony Alpha and the Pentax K100D with comparable lenses should be cheaper (the Sony with 18-70 and 70-300 on preorder is already down to €1018 over here, once it actually hits the stores the price should drop further).
gaekwad2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2006, 01:39   #214
Razzinno
Piffle Producer
 
Razzinno's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: the secret files of my pc
Posts: 2,588
Thanks Sarge and gaek. Those are definitely viable alternatives. I'm checking out the specs on everything now.

Till then, I guess I'll use my old Canon Rebel. It'll outperform the other digital (bought in 99). I've been using digitals so long, I probably won't last the month going back to using film. Right now I just grateful to have other cameras to use.
Razzinno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2006, 06:29   #215
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
Hope you find what you're looking for.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2006, 18:51   #216
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
I got fed up with connecting the camera using the USB cable. Every time I connect my Rebel XT to the front USB ports on my computer, it would just hang and not work. I'd have to unplug it and plug it back in, then an icon would show up in the system tray. I'd have to click the icon to bring up an error message stating something along the lines of "The connected Hi-Speed USB device will function at reduced speeds when it is connected to a USB Full-Speed port. Blah blah blah." Then it would show up in Windows Explorer as a drive so that I could get the pictures... But, I couldn't cut and paste them to the hard drive. I had to copy them. I can't figure out why it won't let me cut and paste. None of the images are protected.

Anyways, I'm already sick and tired of this crap, so I went ahead and ordered an internal card reader. And while I was at it, I also ordered another CF card.

Atech PR0-28U 28-in-1 External / Internal Card Reader
Sandisk 2.0 GB Ultra II CompactFlash Card

Ordered both from Newegg for less than the MSRP on the card alone. That'll give me 4GB worth of space to take pictures with. Woot.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2006, 04:25   #217
SSJ4 Gogitta
Followed by Gnomes
(Forum King)
 
SSJ4 Gogitta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: West Virginia Googolplex: 10^10¹°° FB:/SSJ4.DominusDeus DeviantArt: DominusDeus XboX GT: A Wild Meeseeks Playstation 4: DominusDeus
Posts: 7,161
Send a message via AIM to SSJ4 Gogitta
Should be a nice card. I use a Sandisk Ultra II 1.0 GB SD card for my cameras.

SSJ4 Gogitta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2006, 04:32   #218
dlichterman
Forum King
 
dlichterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Where Hell Froze Over
Posts: 2,466
^That the one with the USB built in?

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
dlichterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2006, 04:46   #219
SSJ4 Gogitta
Followed by Gnomes
(Forum King)
 
SSJ4 Gogitta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: West Virginia Googolplex: 10^10¹°° FB:/SSJ4.DominusDeus DeviantArt: DominusDeus XboX GT: A Wild Meeseeks Playstation 4: DominusDeus
Posts: 7,161
Send a message via AIM to SSJ4 Gogitta
No, the USB one would be this one

SSJ4 Gogitta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2006, 06:36   #220
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,991
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Quote:
Originally posted by sgtfuzzbubble99
I couldn't cut and paste them to the hard drive. I had to copy them. I can't figure out why it won't let me cut and paste.
I fucking HATE that about my Canon camera. The only way it'll let me delete the camera's pics from the computer is if I use the included "Zoom Browser" software that came with the camera. I hate that software, because it loads the entire hard drive's library of pics every time you plug in the camera, takes time to load, and wastes resources. There's not a single feature in that software that isn't found on a better common photo browsing/editing program, and the camera doesn't show up as a drive on "My Computer" unless the bundled software is installed.

Quote:
Originally posted by sgtfuzzbubble99
Ordered both from Newegg for less than the MSRP on the card alone.
Nice work shopping.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2006, 23:17   #221
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
Quote:
Should be a nice card. I use a Sandisk Ultra II 1.0 GB SD card for my cameras.
I'm pretty happy with the one I've got already. It's got enough speed to let me shoot 25+ continuous frames before it starts with the buffer lag. Having two of these cards will let me take a buttload of pictures before I have to transfer them to my computer.

Quote:
I fucking HATE that about my Canon camera. The only way it'll let me delete the camera's pics from the computer is if I use the included "Zoom Browser" software that came with the camera. I hate that software, because it loads the entire hard drive's library of pics every time you plug in the camera, takes time to load, and wastes resources. There's not a single feature in that software that isn't found on a better common photo browsing/editing program, and the camera doesn't show up as a drive on "My Computer" unless the bundled software is installed.
Yeah, that's crap. My Fuji point-and-shoot camera acts just like a removable drive when I connect it to the computer with the USB cable. I can do whatever I want with it. I don't understand why Canon is different. Luckily though, I didn't have to install the software to connect it. I just get an error message each time I do stating something like "The connected Hi-Speed USB device will only work at reduced speeds when connected to Full-Speed USB ports blah blah blah." (Of course, that's because of my motherboard.) I just close that and then the camera will EVENTUALLY show up in Windows Explorer as a drive... but the only menu command I can use is 'copy' when I right-click the picture files. I'm hoping that card reader is as good as all of the reviews on Newegg tout it to be.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2006, 05:15   #222
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,991
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
I really should look into that too, since I still have an available 5.25" bay to mess with.

And yes, when I bring home digital cameras from work (Sony CyberShot models), just like you said, it pops up as a new drive and is easily used for CUT and paste.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2006, 03:22   #223
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
Aye.

I just went through the menu settings on this camera, and I found out that I had it set up to connect directly to a printer instead of to a computer. Strangely enough, when I set it to use a normal PC connection, it wouldn't let me do anything at all with it, not even copy and paste the images. Go figure.

Also, I still haven't been able to wear out the batteries in this battery grip. I must've taken a couple thousand caputures with it already, AF and IS on continuously, AF assist flash and regular flash quite a bit as well, and these batteries are still going strong. I've had the camera for a couple weeks now, and I haven't had to charge the batteries once yet.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2006, 03:36   #224
! ! ! Myspace !
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3
what is good easy and good camera ? where?
! ! ! Myspace ! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2006, 04:06   #225
mikm
Major Dude
 
mikm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 1,255
Hell. Go to. Now

powered by C₂H₅OH
mikm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2006, 04:08   #226
k_rock923
\m/
(Forum King)
 
k_rock923's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: /bin/bash
Posts: 7,850
Send a message via AIM to k_rock923
mikm, you really shouldn't use goto anymore

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
k_rock923 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2006, 05:18   #227
dlichterman
Forum King
 
dlichterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Where Hell Froze Over
Posts: 2,466
When we are in Hawaii I will post some pics my mom takes with her Rebel XT

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
dlichterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 02:19   #228
Razzinno
Piffle Producer
 
Razzinno's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: the secret files of my pc
Posts: 2,588
Got the camera today. Went with Olympus 8.1 Megapixel EVOLT Digital SLR Camera. It came with two Zuiko interchangeable lenses. Hope to have some pics in a few days. Want to do a little traveling with it first. And no, I will NOT be leaving it in my truck this time!
Razzinno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 03:02   #229
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
E-300, E-500, E-330?

The E-330 was a consideration of mine at the beginning of this thread.


[edit]
Nevermind. The E-500 is the only 8+ megapixel Evolt dSLR that Olympus produces now. Let me know how you like it.
[/edit]
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 03:07   #230
Razzinno
Piffle Producer
 
Razzinno's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: the secret files of my pc
Posts: 2,588
E-500. Right now I'm cleaning a bunch of crap off this pc before I install the software. I hope to go to some lakes tommorrow evening to catch a sunset.
Razzinno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 03:12   #231
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
Awesomeness.

If I ever get a few days off from work, I'll see if I can't go find a couple spots to take some pictures with my Rebel XT. I'm really interested to see what kinds of images your Evolt is capable of taking.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 03:36   #232
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,991
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
somewhat offtopic, but I didn't want to bother with a new thread if I could just post it here...

I want a 1GB MMC (Multimedia Card) camera memory card. I had found one on Amazon/Simpletech that was $39 after shipping cost, but after buying it, several weeks after, it never showed up in the mail. I had to contact Simpletech and Amazon to get my money back. Luckily they didn't mind giving me a refund, but I'm still taking pics on the camera's 16MB included card - that's only 4 pics at the highest setting!

Any suggestions/links for a 1GB MMC card? What speed should I be looking for (the camera is a Canon A540)? What price range should I shoot for?

Any brands that are extra good/bad that I should be aware of?

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 04:19   #233
dlichterman
Forum King
 
dlichterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Where Hell Froze Over
Posts: 2,466
You do know that it supports MMC and SD right

http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=380

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
dlichterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 04:26   #234
Razzinno
Piffle Producer
 
Razzinno's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: the secret files of my pc
Posts: 2,588
You can try here. Delivers up to 11 MBps (read) and 7 MBps (write) speeds.
Razzinno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 05:10   #235
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
If it takes SD cards, I'd get one of those. They're much more common than MMC.

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Cata..._SD_Cards.aspx

The CF cards that I have for my dSLR are Sandisk Ultra II's. Very good memory. If you decide to get one of those, buy from Newegg. They've almost always got the best prices (for the quality, features, and speed), and they have great service. I buy almost everything from them.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820180615
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820180616
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 05:30   #236
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,991
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Quote:
Originally posted by dlichterman
You do know that it supports MMC and SD right
Nope, I didn't know that till you posted it.

I checked the manual and sure enough, it supports both.

You may have saved me money - I think SD is generally less expensive than MMC.

@ dlichterman, razzino, and sarge,

Thanks for the links, I'll probably make my decision based on your links tonight.

How does one compare 50X or 60X to MB per second?

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 07:09   #237
dlichterman
Forum King
 
dlichterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Where Hell Froze Over
Posts: 2,466
Quote:
Originally posted by swingdjted
You may have saved me money - I think SD is generally less expensive than MMC.
Yep. Exactly why I posted that. SD is also usually faster unless you buy a mucho expensivo MMC plus thing

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
dlichterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 08:33   #238
gaekwad2
Foorum King
 
gaekwad2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: bar2000
Posts: 11,424
Since it's been bumped anyway:
Quote:
Originally posted by sgtfuzzbubble99
Here is my ideal set of criteria for a new camera:

- At least a 5.0 Megapixel effective resolution.
- Large CCD/CMOS. (1/2.0" or larger for 5.0Mp to 6.2Mp, 1/1.8" or larger for 6.3Mp and up.)
- Uses standard batteries. (AA, AAA, etc. No proprietary battery packs.)
- At least 10x optical zoom. (Digital Zoom optional.)
- Large LCD. (2.0" or larger preferred, 1.8" minimum.)
- At least ISO 800 at max res. (Preferably ISO 1600.)
- Fast startup time. (1.4 seconds or faster.)
- xD media card compatible preferred.
- Must have USB cable included.
- Must save images in standard file formats.
Incidentally Fuji just announced a camera that fulfills all those criteria, the S6000fd/S6500fd* with 6.3 Megapixel 1/1.7" SuperCCD and up to ISO3200 at full resolution (only in terms of pixels though, more than 800 will be rather soft).
It's still no SLR, if you look at the samples you can see some detail loss due to noise reduction even at ISO 100.

*different name in different parts of the world, just like the S5200/S5600 and S9000/S9500, for whatever reason
gaekwad2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 18:10   #239
sgtfuzzbubble011
 
sgtfuzzbubble011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 60,837
That figures. It's probably best that I didn't buy it anyways, though. I'm extremely happy with my Canon, even if it costs WAY more than that Fuji. :P Thanks for the link.


Quote:
How does one compare 50X or 60X to MB per second?
Not exactly sure, but my Ultra II's are rated for 9MBps and 10MBps write and read speeds. Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing any multiplier ratings (50x, 60x, 80x, etc) on my Sandisk card packages. They simply listed the write and read speeds in MBps.
sgtfuzzbubble011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2006, 20:07   #240
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,991
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
I wish there were an equation or something, as pretty much no brands use both - just one or the other, making it hard to compare.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > General Discussions

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump