Old 6th November 2002, 11:42   #1
cgfiend
Senior Member
 
cgfiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 257
Send a message via ICQ to cgfiend Send a message via AIM to cgfiend Send a message via Yahoo to cgfiend
Ogg, here I come!

I'm fairly new to Ogg, but have been collecting MP3's since before Napster. I remember using GetRight to download them off web sites. Those were the early days. Now I feel it's time for me to move up to the next technology, so I'm going to re-rip all of my CD's as Oggs. I did a little looking for CD rippers to use and finally settled with CD-DA Xtractor (for extraction only, I am using OggDropXP for encoding). It's pretty handy. I've decided to make all of my Ogg's at 7 quality (aka 224k). According to a FAQ I read, you start to lose stereo separation below 6 quality. I'm really impressed with the new technology and the reduced file size. For a test I yanked 38 Special - Flashback and it turned out great. I think I'm going to like Ogg a lot better than MP3. Besides, why would I want to support the royalty grubbing bastages that own the patents to MP3? Already I've seen Ogg used in a game---I think it was UT2003 if memory serves me right. It's an exciting prospect, all of this haggling about MP3's and all of the traders convert to Ogg and throw them for a loop. Anyone have other suggestions for Ogg goodies (utilities)? Also, I'd like to hear what you all think about Ogg and its seemingly bright future on the horizon.
cgfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 11:51   #2
Atmo
The Freak
(Forum King)
 
Atmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 9,400
I make mine at 4.9...Its a good trade off of quality vs size...but if quality is more important than size then its up to you to find the best compromise.

Havent used cd-da xtractor, just cdex (reccomended by the good people here) and soundforge (which doesnt have the quality setting, just the bitrate and cbr/vbr options) for encoding oggs..
Atmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 11:59   #3
Vie
Forum King
 
Vie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Thoron fields and Duranium shadows. Posts: Crap mostly
Posts: 7,999
Konnichiwa cgfiend! welcome to the bords, sorry I've not said Hi before but I havent seen you, untill now.

I to am on the .ogg bandwagon, though I mainly download most of my stuf. I'ed go with atmo on the Cdex, nice little prog, good sound quality and isnt filled with useles extras.

Member most in need of SpellCheck Lifetime Achievement Award

I'm a Twitch Streamer these days, it's weird.
Vie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 12:08   #4
cgfiend
Senior Member
 
cgfiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 257
Send a message via ICQ to cgfiend Send a message via AIM to cgfiend Send a message via Yahoo to cgfiend
CDex, etc...

I would have CDex right now, but the web site was down when I tried to get it last night. I'll try it again. I kinda like the OggDropXP, even though it's simplistic, the codec quality setting is supposed to give you the best results-to-size as opposed to selecting the bit rate. The only thing I don't like about OggDrop is it doesn't seem to write tags to the files. Does CDex do this for you? I don't mind the extra size of the files. I want quality. It's always been important to me.

It was refreshing to get my first reply from you Atmo, I have a couple of your skins and enjoy them a lot. Good stuff. Is there a skin for that one you use in your sig all the time? I can't seem to find that one.

Nice to meet you both, Atmo and Vie. I've only been on the forum about a week or so. Mostly in the Breaking News and Bitch List. I look forward to mingling with you guys for quite some time to come. Thanks for making me feel welcome.

cgfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 12:17   #5
Atmo
The Freak
(Forum King)
 
Atmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 9,400
Re: CDex, etc...

Quote:
Originally posted by cgfiend
The only thing I don't like about OggDrop is it doesn't seem to write tags to the files. Does CDex do this for you?
Yes it does.

My sigs just a scribble i did, i havent made a skin to match...although [shameless plug]gamusion is done in a similar style[/shameless plug]
Atmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 12:32   #6
cgfiend
Senior Member
 
cgfiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 257
Send a message via ICQ to cgfiend Send a message via AIM to cgfiend Send a message via Yahoo to cgfiend
Shameless plug, etc.

Cool on the tags. I already have Gamusion, it's one of my favorite skins. Your scribble in your sig looks like these crop circles... especially the third picture, which is a copy of the plate they sent into space with information about Earth. It would be neat to do a skin on this kind of theme.



cgfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 13:18   #7
binary hero
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,004
Send a message via ICQ to binary hero
ogg is the best. and yes, it is used in ut2003
binary hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 14:02   #8
Montana
Major Dude
 
Montana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Södertälje, Sweden
Posts: 1,058
Send a message via ICQ to Montana Send a message via AIM to Montana Send a message via Yahoo to Montana
i also ripped my cd's to ogg and i use -q 6 , i want more quality but don't want to big filesize

batman
Montana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 14:07   #9
fwgx
Rudolf the Red.
(Forum King)
 
fwgx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 9,314
Now if only portable devices would support the superior format...

.: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
fwgx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 14:10   #10
n_ick2000
Forum King
 
n_ick2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: -
Posts: 2,501
Send a message via AIM to n_ick2000 Send a message via Yahoo to n_ick2000
Iriver SlimX is suppoed to support vorbis "sometime". I think they announced that they would look into it.

|
n_ick2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 14:34   #11
cgfiend
Senior Member
 
cgfiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 257
Send a message via ICQ to cgfiend Send a message via AIM to cgfiend Send a message via Yahoo to cgfiend
In time...

I think if we show our support for Ogg enough it will happen. Already there are companies planning support for the format. I wouldn't think it too hard to implement considering the codec is out there and ready for use. You'll definitely want to buy a player that supports firmware upgrades.
cgfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 14:46   #12
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
if anyone cares, ut2k3 does use ogg compression, you were right

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 14:51   #13
Atmo
The Freak
(Forum King)
 
Atmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 9,400
Re: In time...

Quote:
Originally posted by cgfiend
You'll definitely want to buy a player that supports firmware upgrades.
Absolutely. Even though I think there will be players that support ogg soon enough, in a year or so there may be a format that's even better...
Atmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 18:17   #14
theboyjenkins
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 224
Whoo! ogg rules and yes iRiver are going to be adding it to their firmware

-J
theboyjenkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 18:34   #15
dylman
Forum King
 
dylman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Hawarden
Posts: 2,115
EAC is a great CD ripper, at least as good as CDEX, and in secure mode with scratched CDs is unparalleled.

There's no need to tell me when I'm right;
I operate on that principle exclusively and with absolute certainty
dylman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2002, 18:51   #16
Sparky!
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Ft. Wayne
Posts: 53
Finally!

I'm surprised EAC wasn't mentioned earlier. It's the ONLY ripper that can guarantee a perfect copy.

I can't imagine why anyone would settle for less.
Sparky! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 02:56   #17
Zoombie
Member
 
Zoombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 92
I agree completely about EAC - definately the best ripper out there. But...has anyone gotten tags to work with EAC and .ogg files? If I turn tagging on within EAC, my .ogg files become corrupt, but, if I don't, I have to do the tags one-by-one, because I have yet to find a good program to do tags en masse for ogg.
Zoombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 03:55   #18
rm'
Banned
 
rm''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,361
Re: Finally!

Quote:
Originally posted by Sparky!
I can't imagine why anyone would settle for less.
The decrease in ripping speed as opposed to CDex hardly seems worth it to me. I have neither the best ears, nor the best speakers. Besides, why get so anal about a perfect copy when you are going to be compressing it to mp3/ogg anyway?
rm' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 06:08   #19
Zoombie
Member
 
Zoombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally posted by Sawg
UNcheck the Add ID3 and add ID3v2 options. ID3 tags break Vorbis files. Make sure you are using Ogg Vorbis encoder option from the drop-down, it will add Vorbis Comments auto-magically.
Thanks. Didn't realize EAC automatically added OGG tags. Everything's fine now.
Zoombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 06:11   #20
Zoombie
Member
 
Zoombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 92
Re: Re: Finally!

Quote:
Originally posted by rm'

Besides, why get so anal about a perfect copy when you are going to be compressing it to mp3/ogg anyway?
Nothing ruins the mood of a song more than a nice pop and a skip. I can't help deleting popped files with disgust upon discovery...

Besides, you can actually get pretty good quality with MP3 and OGG...with LAME's --alt-prefix standard or OGG's -q 6, you can hardly tell that you're hearing a lossy file. Go up to --alt-prefix extreme or OGG's -q >7 and you get really great sound, although I don't consider it worth the file size.
Zoombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 06:43   #21
PabUK
Major Dude
 
PabUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: .com/munity
Posts: 1,278
I am still in the process of ripping all my albums to Ogg. Got about 25 done so far. I use CDex and Ogg quality 3. Ogg is optimised for low bitrate so the high ones (above 5) are overkill in my opinion. And Zoombie - I have not had a single pop or skip using CDex yet. And I have been using it for a long time.

In support of aggressive sex with llamas, and freedom from the obligation to explain.
Pawhosting.com | Pawsoft.com | Pawdesign.com | PabUK.com
PabUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 08:09   #22
Twilightseer
Frenchoderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lavabo, fond du couloir, 3è porte à droite
Posts: 6,309
I don't bother using EAC either except on a severely scratched CD.
But anyway, CDEX and EAC are the best two rippers available; as long as you use any of them, you're safe.
Twilightseer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 11:58   #23
sandb937
Major Dude
 
sandb937's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 818
whats supposed to be so good about an ogg file? i can't take it once burned and play it on anything else it would be worthless. i don't remember who it was that say by the time they have a portible player that supports an ogg format, something else will be out. also like rm mentioned none of us have the best ears or the best speakers so what differance does it make if the quality is 224/equal or not? as far as storing on a harddrive though, how do ogg files compair in size to a mp3 or a wav file?

sandb937 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 18:50   #24
Sparky!
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Ft. Wayne
Posts: 53
Why get anal about the quality of a ripped CD if you're gonna just compress it and play it on your computer?

Because one day your wife's gonna surprise you for your birthday with some decent speakers/sub for the computer and suddenly those 128k mp3's d/l from the net are gonna sound worse than cassette tapes I bought back in high school (circa 1985).

That's why!
Sparky! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 18:58   #25
Jedi Gemstone
Major Dudette
 
Jedi Gemstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,526
Ok I can't be assed to read that long paragraph of stuff that wouldn't even make sense to me.
I'd just like to welcome you to the forums

My Website
Deviantartness Yay
This signature was brought to you by the colour Red and the number 14
I'm A Purple Ghetto, So Follow Me To Sanity!! *Runs Off* I Have No Idea Where I'm Going......
Jedi Gemstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 19:09   #26
sandb937
Major Dude
 
sandb937's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally posted by Sparky!
Why get anal about the quality of a ripped CD if you're gonna just compress it and play it on your computer?

Because one day your wife's gonna surprise you for your birthday with some decent speakers/sub for the computer and suddenly those 128k mp3's d/l from the net are gonna sound worse than cassette tapes I bought back in high school (circa 1985).

That's why!
who says im playing the songs on my computer only? i do have a car i ride in and a bose home theater system the sounds better than any computer equipment you can get. i can give someone a disk of mps and they can play it in there car or boom box or whatever. what happens if they don't have a computer and i give them a disk that has ogg files on it? they can't listen to it. personally thats why they are useless

[edit] besides how do they compair size wise to an mp3 or a wav file?[/edit]

sandb937 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 19:43   #27
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by sandb937
whats supposed to be so good about an ogg file? i can't take it once burned and play it on anything else it would be worthless. i don't remember who it was that say by the time they have a portible player that supports an ogg format, something else will be out. also like rm mentioned none of us have the best ears or the best speakers so what differance does it make if the quality is 224/equal or not? as far as storing on a harddrive though, how do ogg files compair in size to a mp3 or a wav file?
ogg files better quality for the same size than mp3 files, and the quality loss is very slight as it uses variable rate recording (so it devotes more space to things that are hard to encode). i can tell the difference between an mp3 and an ogg on my not very good computer speakers. i have trouble differentiating between ogg and CD, though. ogg is open source, too, which gives it a far better chance of being successful in the future, as it is a free standard (unlike mp3, which strictly speaking can be charged per decoder). if you take an ogg file, and burn it to CD as audio, you can listen to it on any CD player (obviously), and the quality loss will be a great deal lower than burning (equivalent size) mp3s to audio.

and that's why i use ogg, thankyouverymuch.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 19:52   #28
cgfiend
Senior Member
 
cgfiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 257
Send a message via ICQ to cgfiend Send a message via AIM to cgfiend Send a message via Yahoo to cgfiend
All Ogg!

I just finished ripping the last of my CD's. Now to enjoy my new Oggs.
cgfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 19:56   #29
Sparky!
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Ft. Wayne
Posts: 53
Actually sandb937, my post was in response to rm's post questioning the need for a perfect rip in the face of lossy compression.

I wasn't arguing for or against the mp3 or ogg format. Rather I was arguing for better ripping to minimize the loss of quality when encoding to mp3 (or ogg).

But since that seems to be the general direction of this topic I might as well weigh in: The open source aspect of Vorbis first attracted me to the format. I have since done my own informal comparisons of mp3 and ogg files and found that ogg is AT LEAST a good as mp3. Better? Hard to tell, but I'm sold on ogg. I have not, however, given up on mp3, simply because of the wide support available for it. When ogg is as widely supported as mp3, I'll consider dumping mp3.
Sparky! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 20:03   #30
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
yeah... the only reasons i keep mp3s on my computer are:
  • you can't download oggs easily anywhere i can easily get access to
  • i'm not re-ripping all the CDs i did pre-ogg, then changing all my playlists
  • gta3 doesn't play oggs on the custom radio

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 20:11   #31
sandb937
Major Dude
 
sandb937's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
if you take an ogg file, and burn it to CD as audio, you can listen to it on any CD player (obviously), and the quality loss will be a great deal lower than burning (equivalent size) mp3s to audio.
but are you talking about converting the ogg files to wav files then buring to disk? if thats the case i will stay with mp3. or if i burn an ogg file as is to a disk will an mp3 decoder read it? or back to my first question does it have to be converted. maybe if they become as widly used as mp3 and more players become available then it might be worth switching

sandb937 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2002, 21:35   #32
cgfiend
Senior Member
 
cgfiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 257
Send a message via ICQ to cgfiend Send a message via AIM to cgfiend Send a message via Yahoo to cgfiend
Quote:
Originally posted by sandb937


but are you talking about converting the ogg files to wav files then buring to disk? if thats the case i will stay with mp3. or if i burn an ogg file as is to a disk will an mp3 decoder read it? or back to my first question does it have to be converted. maybe if they become as widly used as mp3 and more players become available then it might be worth switching
With Ogg's, unless you have a program that supports burning Oggs to disc, yes--you have to make them WAV's first. Easily done with OggDec.EXE or most Ogg-supporting encoding programs. An MP3 decoder won't read Ogg files, unless it has the support for it.

I had all of my own CD's ripped into MP3 format, but I decided it's better to support a format that is free (i.e. no support for the money grubbing bastards who own MP3). Ogg does what I want it to and it makes better sounding files at a lesser size. You can't beat that. That's why I reripped all of my CD's. Another reason was that my MP3's were ripped over years of using different programs and the names were in different formats and unorganized. Now my collection is clean and fresh, as well as better sounding with Ogg at quality 7 (224kb/s VBR). I couldn't ask for more. I'm happy with the results. I'm willing to go an extra mile just to give MP3 the boot.
cgfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2003, 11:44   #33
mark
Forum King
 
mark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Norn Ir'nd, leek...
Posts: 6,287
the last known whereabouts of rm'.....

mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2003, 16:08   #34
eleet-2k2
Forum King
 
eleet-2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mobil Ave.
Posts: 5,381
I go straight for at least 160 KBpz, and if I have enough CPU power, I'll make a VBR between 160-192KBps OGG. Good quality for the size.

"Welcome to the Island of people who know too much."..."Did you really think balloons would stop him?!"
See what I'm listening too.
eleet-2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > General Discussions

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump