Old 7th March 2013, 16:14   #1
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Winamp For Android 2.0 Beta discussion

Winamp For Android 2.0 Beta
http://www.winamp.com/labs/android

A clean install is recommended
(ie. don't install it straight on top of latest 1.4.x version)

Please read Winamp Labs info first.

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Discuss all things 2.0 Beta in this thread only. Thanks.
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Old 12th March 2013, 11:01   #2
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hi all,

Egg asked me to post this here, and i'm flattered. i hope it is helpful to the devs and the users. please feel free to ask me for any further clarifications:

--

so, my understanding is nullsoft is going to go to WFA 2.0 fairly soon, yes?

if so, it would REALLY be a good idea to FIX some of the serious under the hood issues with WFA, syncing, and so on, so they are forever fixed going forward.

here is what you need to do, imo:

1. you need to change the terminology throughout the winamp desktop app to be CONSISTENT. CD Ripping (which doesn't) and "the droid path" (which does) should BOTH use <albumartist> for "album artist" and <artist> for "track artist" ...any other confusing inconsistentcies should likewise be stamped out.

2. the user can already make adjustments to prefs, etc, for USB transfers. the user can NOT do the same for wifi xfers. why? again, this should be changed, wifi xfer settings should be equally exposed, which leads to:

3. both the USB and the wifi xfer settings should be controlled by the same pref[s]. so what i mean is that it shouldn't matter if the user uses a USB cable or wifi to do things, there should be ONLY one set of prefs to control BOTH types of xfers. otherwise, the USB ones risk being divergent from what the app forces via wifi ones.

so to put it another way, the method of xfer should not matter, the prefs applying to xfers will be universal/global to any type of xfer, and all methods of xfer should be controlled by the one set of prefs for that (i.e. winamp to droid).

4. the defaults are currently terrible for the prefs. they should look something like this, (where G is the Droid):

G:\Music\<Albumartist>\<Album>\## - <Artist> - <Title>

when the music is put on the device in this way, it properly organizes albums, including VA ones, on a droid/WFA.

the current default, for wifi, is close to that. but for USB, it uses track artist! thats just silly. and thats the kind of divergence u get out of the box, as well as a crappy default.

5. in WFA, albums need to show that they are "by" a TPE2 value (album artist) not a TPE1 (track artist) value, which is never correct for VA albums.

6. use TPE2 when TPE2 is present. if TPE2 is blank, then look for TCMP=1 tags, and if present, assume albumartist=VA (common in itunes files); and if not present, use TPE1 to = TPE2. FYI: gracenote commonly assigns an AA value.

7. copy all art files in a given album folder (even for only one xfer'd track) to the phones same album folder.

7a. give me a way to "refresh artwork" on WFA the way i can on the desktop app.

8. i know this is "8" but its a really important one! WFA should respect AA tags, and allow users to switch, on the fly, browsing between a list of artists (track artists) or AAs (album artists). and browsing albums should ALWAYS be done via album artists > albums, OR album artists > year > albums.

thats all i can think of for the moment.

imo, with 5.7 in beta and WFA 2.0 right around the corner, there is no better time than now to fix the issues listed above and have this all straight going forward for the rest of time! these aren't minor issues, a lot of of users have posted about this which means a lot more users are out there just "giving up" on an incredibly messy current implementation.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 12th March 2013, 11:23   #3
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i would elaborate for point 6 that it would really be helpful for the winamp for desktop app to add in the ability to edit TCMP frames in the ML for id3, COMPILATION fields for Vorbis, etc. there are only 4 states:

no frame or field present at all
no value present for a frame or field
=1
=0

only " =1 " is affirmative to stating 'is a comp' status. "no value present" really isn't a valid state; it is better to simply remove the field altogether.

i am NOT saying the desktop app should do anything to its own behavior, beyond sensibly allowing editing these values & sorting its column & being a smartview criteria, etc; however, to properly support portable devices, esp by apple, winamp should not only allow editing of these values, but also be aware of them when setting "comp flags" for xfer to devices that may not recognize such tags.

it is a fallacy for winamp to think (behave as if) only those things with <albumartist> tags = to VA are comps.

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Old 12th March 2013, 20:26   #4
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only thing i see might be a issue for some
if bought pro through the app it will not recognize the pro if clean install

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Old 12th March 2013, 21:01   #5
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@robdog2004

Hey Rob. Yeah, that's because the apk needs to be up on Google Play for those features to work.
There was a beta pass feature in the beta builds which enabled those features, but the Google API has changed, so it's now broken...
Stay tuned. We're working on it ;-)
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Old 12th March 2013, 21:22   #6
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good to hear egg
now the other thing for me is to get the cloud fixed
(you should see that in your email)

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Old 13th March 2013, 01:34   #7
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on a completely different note...

something i always see frustrating users, is that they can't control what gets scanned and what doesn't.

the WFA app needs a pref to allow the user to specify as many multiple locations for it to scan as they want, and include external or secondary memory cards, (as opposed to internal memory only) and the specifc folders on them they want in any of those memory locations.

on the other hand, the app also needs a pref, prob on by default, so it can be told to NOT use any media except that which is explicitly specified as described above. this would keep ringtones, VMs, etc, out of the apps ML.

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Old 13th March 2013, 01:50   #8
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i agree with those features
as not all phones store memory on internal or external cards by default
the option to index from multiple folders would be nice
example mine stores files on external memory card and it sees that only
yet i know there are files stored elsewhere on the phone, though i dont want them played or in my library, i would like for it to at least recognize they are there just in case i would ever like for them to be in my library sometime in the future

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Old 14th March 2013, 03:39   #9
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on a related note, people don't want their album art showing up in the phones "Gallery" with their normal pictures.

so maybe the art files can be marked "hidden" or something?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
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Old 14th March 2013, 03:55   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
on a related note, people don't want their album art showing up in the phones "Gallery" with their normal pictures.

so maybe the art files can be marked "hidden" or something?
Pretty easily done, just needs a .nomedia file in the directory containing the pictures.

Request: A little SmartView Query Language love.
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Old 14th March 2013, 04:05   #11
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but wouldn't that apply to the mp3s also in that folder? or is there txt in the .nomedia file that specifies pictures?

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Old 14th March 2013, 17:48   #12
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finding out i have a limited memory issue with my phone (only 100mb or less free of ram at times)
right now if i try to use cloud with the android the phone stops responding
if i try to fast forward to a different song it goes back to the begining of the current song
song list mixes both what is on the phone and online in the cloud
some may not want this, rather cloud songs be in their own view
other thing didnt notice was a option to use cloud only on wifi
unless that is already default
phone is samsung stratosphere (first edition) with android 2.3.6
when my upgrade comes (which is soon) will be able to go to android 4.1 and a faster phone

thanks rob
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Old 14th March 2013, 21:16   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmosis View Post
Pretty easily done, just needs a .nomedia file in the directory containing the pictures.
Could you elaberate on how to do this in a new thread. I posted a thread on this picture in galley topic and have had no replies yet. Thanks !!!

ALW
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Old 14th March 2013, 22:34   #14
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There's a new update on Winamp Labs

Winamp-2.0.1070-Beta-prod-cloud.apk

Still very beta, but slightly less so than the last build :-)
Bear in mind, that it's mainly a proof-of-concept build for showing-off Winamp Cloud integration.
More features (from 1.4.x and newer) will be coming eventually....

The new build also includes various bug fixes. Thanks for all the reports! Keep them coming!
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Old 15th March 2013, 00:41   #15
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love the view feature in songs
though a major issue for me
click on songs if cloud db is disabled and get "whoops winamp has crashed, sending report"
sometimes get the error message in playlist mode
other thing when using enqueue all in songs it'll say
"0 songs added to playlist"
this is clean install

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Old 16th March 2013, 11:25   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
but wouldn't that apply to the mp3s also in that folder? or is there txt in the .nomedia file that specifies pictures?
Hmm.. yeah good point. Depends on how the Winamp app works; if it respects .nomedia files or not. Android's media storage does so the mp3 files (and album art) won't show up in GMusic or Gallery, but if Winamp just takes whatever directory you point it at then it's no problem.

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Old 16th March 2013, 13:12   #17
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Yes, there's an inconsistency between the way pmp_android and pmp_wifi send album art.
In usb mode we embed the art, in wifi mode we send as .%album%.jpeg

Ideally, we need to either make pmp_wifi also embed the art,
or save it with an extension that only winamp will recognize, eg. album.art or whatever.

I haven't tried the .nomedia file trick, but as MrS says, it'll probably also hide the mp3 files,
if not from Winamp then definitely from other players/apps.
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Old 16th March 2013, 21:06   #18
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Would not embedding the art add to the file size of every song in that album? Most people have a pretty limited amount of storage on their phones. Having one file used for all songs in the album would definitely save space.

A few things that could help.
1. Use an image format not supported by Android. i.e. Tiff
This would work but would require building an image translator to put images into that format and a renderer for the format. Probably not worth it. That and it hopes they don't start supporting it.

2. Use an unknown file extension i.e. ART This would theoretically solve the problem if Android didn't figure out what the file was anyway. For instance many people rename an animated gif file to jpg just to see people get confused when the browser shows it anyway.

3. Create a database that contains the art.

4. Create a subdir to the music directory call ALBUMART with a .nomedia file in it. That way the other players could see the music and the artwork would be kept private. This is probably the easiest to implement and has the added benefit that it is understandable to a person that stumbles across it.
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Old 16th March 2013, 22:44   #19
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embedding album art to songs only adds minimal file size since its embeded along with song info with the id3 tags
you are looking at a few kb instead of mb
most of my songs are about 4mb for 3-4 minute song with album art embeded

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Old 16th March 2013, 22:55   #20
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space on phones is already limited, and embedding as part of a xfer only makes that xfer take longer, and more complex.

if someone ALREADY has their embeds in the file, then they are all set. just xfer the files en toto.

but if someone uses folder art, (and many do), then the folder art, (all of it) should simply xfer along to the device with any one given file. obviously it only needs sent once per folder. if the extension needs renamed to "art" so be it. but i think the android app should follow the same rules for "finding" art the desktop has, b/c we all need to remember that a user might have put the songs or whatever on the device using a DIFFERENT method than winamp!

why is that hard to do? i don't even understand why this is a question?

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Old 16th March 2013, 23:07   #21
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if using album art as folder.jpg it still runs like the winamp on the computer
from what ive seen when i ran the phone memory card as a flash drive
so im guessing for most files it's already doing what your saying
depending on the phone manufacturer
samsung does things differently than most companies for a example

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Old 16th March 2013, 23:26   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
if using album art as folder.jpg it still runs like the winamp on the computer
from what ive seen when i ran the phone memory card as a flash drive
so im guessing for most files it's already doing what your saying
depending on the phone manufacturer
samsung does things differently than most companies for a example
no, its not. here is what egg said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Egg View Post
Yes, there's an inconsistency between the way pmp_android and pmp_wifi send album art.
In usb mode we embed the art, in wifi mode we send as .%album%.jpeg

Ideally, we need to either make pmp_wifi also embed the art,
or save it with an extension that only winamp will recognize, eg. album.art or whatever.

I haven't tried the .nomedia file trick, but as MrS says, it'll probably also hide the mp3 files,
if not from Winamp then definitely from other players/apps.
imo, the WFA app should have the same rules for FINDING art as the desktop app, except it should add one: anything with an .art extension, and that should be second, only after embeds. (it should keep all the existing rules however b/c the songs/art can get onto the device via many other ways than winamp)

imo, the winamp for desktop app should xfer any and all art files it finds in an album folder to the device in the same album folder, and just rename their extensions .art

WFA would then look for the *.art files the same way it looks for *.jpgs on the desktop app; its just that on WFA it looks for *.art ones first.

that seems simple enough to me.

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Old 16th March 2013, 23:53   #23
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since mine are all embeded before sending to the phone i dont have a issue
now when i looked at the memory card most said folder.jpg
and i only transfer by winamp
so it may depend on the image in the folder its grabbing the files from

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Old 17th March 2013, 00:11   #24
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it sounds to me like you are doing a xfer by wifi, and winamp is then taking an embed and making a folder art out of it, which if true, is crazy. (or, maybe you have "hidden" folder art you don't know about?)

but what i am talking about is what winamp should do in WFA 2.0 ...if it finds no folder art, it should just xfer the songs, thats it. then WFA can parse them to see if art is embedded or not, and if so, just use the first track of the album for the album art.

otherwise: if there are no embeds, but there is album art, then it should use that.

it should not, for any reason, embed art during xfer. nor should it, for any reason, rename the art files it finds during xfer, EXCEPT the extensions. and i only advocate that bit to overcome the "artwork in the gallery" issue.

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Old 17th March 2013, 00:27   #25
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I do not object to WFA using embedded art if it finds it. I would object to it requiring it. While it may only add 10-20K to the file, it would add that to every file in the album. That starts getting big in a hurry.

The solution to including folder art that I like best is to simply place it a subdir with the .nomedia flag. No renaming would be required.
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Old 17th March 2013, 00:41   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMullins View Post
I do not object to WFA using embedded art if it finds it. I would object to it requiring it. While it may only add 10-20K to the file, it would add that to every file in the album. That starts getting big in a hurry.
i agree. and embedded art can be a lot more than 10-20K per file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMullins View Post
The solution to including folder art that I like best is to simply place it a subdir with the .nomedia flag. No renaming would be required.
and as egg stated, that likely won't work b/c it would likely hide all files, not just art, from other apps in the droid, (winamp is merely the best, not the only, droid media player). so another media player would not see the mp3s for example.

if it weren't for that, i'd agree with you, but that must be taken into account.

EDIT: if you mean one gigantic art folder, that also doesn't work, as how would WFA keep track of each art file? it would have to, at the very least, rename the art file to the album name, and then what happens when you have two matching album names?

no, the best idea is to match the system used on the desktop, i.e. art files which are not embeds belong in album folders.

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Old 17th March 2013, 01:11   #27
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Well I could see it two different ways. A common folder like \mount\extsdcard\Music\AlbumArt
since the folder is in Music all of the music files would still be visible to other apps. Just what was in the subfolder AlbumArt would be hidden. The artwork there could be stored as albumname.jpg to make the connection.

Alternatively you could store it as
\mount\extsdcard\Music\Album\track1.mp3
\mount\extsdcard\Music\Album\track2.mp3
\mount\extsdcard\Music\Album\AlbumArt\albumart.jpg

Of course the AlbumArt folder would be at the same place as the music files. So all the other media programs would see exactly what they expected. It would simply have an additional folder inside the album that would be ignored.
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Old 17th March 2013, 05:59   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMullins View Post
Well I could see it two different ways. A common folder like \mount\extsdcard\Music\AlbumArt
since the folder is in Music all of the music files would still be visible to other apps. Just what was in the subfolder AlbumArt would be hidden. The artwork there could be stored as albumname.jpg to make the connection.
like i said, that wouldn't work, b/c lots of albums share the same name. think "Greatest Hits" ...you would have to do something more complex, like use an artist or albumartist name with the album name, and that has pitfalls all over the place. it just isn't elegant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMullins View Post
Alternatively you could store it as
\mount\extsdcard\Music\Album\track1.mp3
\mount\extsdcard\Music\Album\track2.mp3
\mount\extsdcard\Music\Album\AlbumArt\albumart.jpg

Of course the AlbumArt folder would be at the same place as the music files. So all the other media programs would see exactly what they expected. It would simply have an additional folder inside the album that would be ignored.
this is a much better idea. to me, this is fine, or renaming the extensions and just keeping the art in the folder with the songs is fine. i could easily live with either way.

just out of curiousity, why are you against renaming the extensions of xferred files?

EDIT:

the filepath should be like this though

\mount\extsdcard\Music\<albumartist>\<Album>\Art\*.jpg

and the artwork file itself shouldn't be renamed, simply copied.

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Old 17th March 2013, 07:01   #29
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One reason is that it assumes that Androids media engine will not see though the attempt at disguise. For instance chrome has no problem properly rendering a gif named as a jpg. It looks at the file header and understands what it really is. It also assumes that the file extension will never be used by another app and confuse something even worse. It would also tend to make it difficult if you wanted to edit the album art (no I don't know why you ever would but ...). Then there would be the issue of having not one, but multiple phoney extensions to cover all of the possible formats. So for me a better solution is to use the os and its features as they are designed. Putting the artwork in a subdir resolves those issues I said before, without messing up any other apps. Not to mention that it is a fairly easy solution that would take very little effort to implement and test.

Your example of the filepath is correct. I was just being lazy. Do not forget that any time a folder art is created and the artwork copied in a .nomedia should also be created that is what would keep the artwork out of the gallery while still being available to WFA. (I will bet that it will not take very long for other developers to notice and start using it also.)
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Old 17th March 2013, 07:59   #30
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Quote:
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One reason is that it assumes that Androids media engine will not see though the attempt at disguise.
my guess is the "disguise" would work fine, but ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMullins View Post
For instance chrome has no problem properly rendering a gif named as a jpg.
but thats b/c it can do both, and b/c it knows that either is an image. rename it to *.fgg and see if it works. it might but i really doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMullins View Post
It looks at the file header and understands what it really is.
b/c both are image extensions, therefore it guesses image types.

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It also assumes that the file extension will never be used by another app and confuse something even worse.
a risk? maybe, but a small one. it could always be changed later, and these aren't meant to be on the phone forever.

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It would also tend to make it difficult if you wanted to edit the album art (no I don't know why you ever would but ...).
who is doing that on a phone? and why would you do it there and not the source?

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Then there would be the issue of having not one, but multiple phoney extensions to cover all of the possible formats.
no, that wouldn't be necessary. one extension for all the supported filetypes would work, b/c the app could examine the file headers just like chrome does.

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So for me a better solution is to use the os and its features as they are designed. Putting the artwork in a subdir resolves those issues I said before, without messing up any other apps. Not to mention that it is a fairly easy solution that would take very little effort to implement and test.
i think there are pros and cons to both but i'm happy with either. its a great suggestion imo.

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Your example of the filepath is correct. I was just being lazy. Do not forget that any time a folder art is created and the artwork copied in a .nomedia should also be created that is what would keep the artwork out of the gallery while still being available to WFA. (I will bet that it will not take very long for other developers to notice and start using it also.)
yep, i think the devs understand that, as do i.

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Old 19th March 2013, 21:48   #31
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There's a new update on Winamp Labs

WAFA-B-2.0.1078-prodc.apk

Again, still very beta, but slightly less so than the last build :-)
Includes various fixes & optimizations....
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Old 19th March 2013, 23:34   #32
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working better egg
still enqueue all is not working
songs list or any other on board stoarge
click enqueue all says 0 songs added to playlist

thanks rob
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Old 20th March 2013, 04:20   #33
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I tried the beta today for the first time hoping it may fix the problems I've had with syncing but the beta crashes straight away after launching. I am using the galaxy s2 with Ice Cream Sandwich (4.0.4)

My problem with the current Winamp is its rare that it is ever discovered on the main desktop version to allow syncing even though its set up to do so and connected to the WI-FI.
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Old 20th March 2013, 04:56   #34
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thats a issue that has been ongoing and difficult to track
as it's kind of both android and desktop winamp itself
along with some routers inability to do data share between desktop and wifi

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Old 20th March 2013, 06:21   #35
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thats a issue that has been ongoing and difficult to track
as it's kind of both android and desktop winamp itself
along with some routers inability to do data share between desktop and wifi
Any idea if this is being worked on. I did a look up not so long back and heard apparently someone claiming the reason was that the android and desktop team where separate and so some of the integration wasn't working properly.

I love the idea of the sync feature because sometimes I just want to quickly sync a couple of certain songs without having to find my USB lead. If there is an ongoing problem, Winamp should update their help part, as the instructions to sync don't really have much information to help when it goes wrong.
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Old 20th March 2013, 06:35   #36
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im sure its being worked on
hopefully though if this cloud works you can send files from your computer to your phone through the cloud instead of through the iffy wifi plugin
to me it seems like it can be done once all bugs are out

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Old 21st March 2013, 01:43   #37
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Build 1087 is now up on Winamp Labs

WAFA-B-2.0.1087-prodc.apk

Mainly just more bug/crash fixes

You will need to do a clean install (ie. uninstall the old version first) if you were experiencing the "ReadOnlyDatabaseException" crash on startup with build 1078

Streams (shoutcast, cdlp, spinner) still not working... hopefully for the next build :-)

Streaming and downloading from the Cloud seems to be working ok though, which is the main proof-of-concept aspect of this beta.

The main reason why not all features from 1.4.x are working in the current 2.0 beta builds is because we've implemented our own media database and playback engine, which paves the way for lots more functionality....
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Old 21st March 2013, 03:08   #38
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main issue seen
cloud login screen not showing (might be temporary)
other issues are as before add song s to queue says 0 songs added
other issue noticed
as it appears in notifier
song title does show
shows file path instead this maybe a gingerbread only thing

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Old 21st March 2013, 07:00   #39
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im sure its being worked on
hopefully though if this cloud works you can send files from your computer to your phone through the cloud instead of through the iffy wifi plugin
to me it seems like it can be done once all bugs are out
Just tried the new Beta and sync worked for once straight away. Has worked on and off in the past but looking good fingers crossed
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Old 21st March 2013, 22:22   #40
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Build 1088 is now up on Winamp Labs

WAFA-B-2.0.1088-prodc.apk

- More bug/crash fixes
- SHOUTcast streams (initially) now working...
- Individual CDLP/Spinner song streams now working
- Fixed ad-blocking issue

There are still known issues with the Play Queue (0 songs added/cleared)
and a few other known crashes/bugs which will hopefully be fixed for the next build,
but this build certainly seems to be the most stable one so far.... :-)
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