Old 2nd September 2007, 23:15   #1
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Iran reaches key nuclear goal

Iran has met a key target for its nuclear programme and now has 3,000 centrifuges enriching uranium, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said.

Mr Ahmadinejad said Iran would continue its drive in spite of UN sanctions.

Enriched uranium can be used for power stations but also for nuclear bombs. The West has accused Iran of trying to develop weapons - a charge Iran denies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6974903.stm
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Old 3rd September 2007, 00:23   #2
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These people are going to be the end of this world.
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Old 3rd September 2007, 01:44   #3
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Originally posted by whatboy
These people are going to be the end of this world.
Unlike say the Americans, British, Russians, Chinese, French, Australians, Israeli, Germans and others who all have Nuclear Weapons and some of the worst 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'...

But I suppose thats alright though?


btw do you know how Britain and America knew Iraq had WMD's?

Probably due to the fact that they fucking gave them to them in the first place... wow go figure! No... that can't be true...

or how about the majority of weapons in Africa (Apart from the Kalashnikov) whats the main weapon? oh thats right the 7.62 SLR - wonder where they got them? Ah yeah thats right - when the SA80, now the standard (Piece of shite) British Infantry weapon was introduced and the good old SLR was phased out, they were all sold of to third world countries in Africa, well blow me fucking sideways, who would have guessed it.

Do you know it's about time the 'Sheeple' gave them selves a good hard slap up side of the head (As hard as you fucking possibly can) and wake up a bit....

So what? So Iran has near enough capability to produce an atomic bomb, half the fecking world already has them ffs and at the end of the day I'm more concerned about that nutjob bush - as he is the most likely to use the fuckers since the last two that were used in an act of aggression..

Oh yeah - thats right - conveniently forgotten about that one - who has already used them in an act of war? Thats what concerns me...Used not once but twice so my book who is more likely to use them again? .....

fuck it, but this annoys the crap out of me..


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Old 3rd September 2007, 02:18   #4
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Am sorry that you can't see that Iran is an evil government and would rather see the destruction of American, Britain or any other country that don't complied with their laws(bible laws). Yes American used atomic bombs twice and other nations do have it, but that radical mentality is what's lacking from the other nations including ours.

During the Cold War I think this world didn't exploded when America and Russian where at a nuclear crisis because both side did value life and didn't want a mass extermination. Iran would not think twice of bombing any other country or city or even care about the outcome because they lack moral thinking.

There is only two sides EVIL AND GOOD.
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Old 3rd September 2007, 03:03   #5
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yeah but at the end of the day it's not Iran threatening to use it - Israel are the only ones doing that at the moment. A country that has been in flagrant breach of more UN directives for over 30 years - ably supported by Britain and America of course.

BTW - please stop listening to the claptrap from Government run media circus's such CNN, ABC, BBC, ITV and the majority of main stream news papers....

just re-read the last of your post there..

Quote:
city or even care about the outcome because they lack moral thinking.
Is that for real? Wheres the difference? current situation in Iraq is against all UN directives and decisions. Against International Law.
Iran? you can get stoned to death or hung? America - poisoned or gassed or shot or electrocuted..

Wheres the difference? I can't see much moral thinking on either side...

Ah!!! I know - theres not enough oil in just Iraq alone, well not to support 'The all Western Dream' maybe that could be the real reason. It was the reason behind Iraq whether anyone likes that or not...

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Old 3rd September 2007, 06:17   #6
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Originally posted by Smeggle



Is that for real? Wheres the difference? current situation in Iraq is against all UN directives and decisions. Against International Law.
Iran? you can get stoned to death or hung? America - poisoned or gassed or shot or electrocuted..

You kill a whole family or rape a girl and kill her you, then will get kill in our legal system. You go and change your religion in our country or commit adultery I don't think we won't even care. At the end of the day we may have our things to work on but at least they are not brutal as Iran.
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Old 3rd September 2007, 06:19   #7
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oh just to answer another point you pointed out. Maybe you don't live in American, but our government don't control our press.
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Old 3rd September 2007, 07:03   #8
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Originally posted by whatboy
oh just to answer another point you pointed out. Maybe you don't live in American, but our government don't control our press.
No, but money does.
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Old 3rd September 2007, 13:45   #9
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You kill a whole family or rape a girl and kill her you, then will get kill in our legal system. You go and change your religion in our country or commit adultery I don't think we won't even care. At the end of the day we may have our things to work on but at least they are not brutal as Iran.
Then you obviously don't know your history very well. What about the communist witch hunts of the 50's/60's and still going on to this day. The persecution of the coloured American populace especially prevalent in the Southern states and still ongoing to this day...

Theres plenty of evidence to it all - thats if you want to open your eyes and take the blinkers off. Heres a film by the renowned and highly respected journalist Johnathan Pilger, who was the person to expose the horrors of the Cambodian regime under the Khmer Rouge and also reported on the Vietnam War.

In this documentary he exposes the involvement and influences of the US in Latin America - it's kinda long, about 1hour 34mins. If you want to learn something then watch this film, then tell me that not only your own Government but the British Government are righteous and honorable...

Johnathan Pilger - The War On Democracy

Watch the woman about 1 hour 8mins in, an American woman and what happened to her and who was involved...

***Warning*** Contains very graphic scenes

And thats only one film amongst many that seek to expose the truth. You can find more information if you wish at zdnet probably one of the only reliable sources on the internet.

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Old 6th September 2007, 18:02   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by whatboy
You kill a whole family or rape a girl and kill her you, then will get kill in our legal system. You go and change your religion in our country or commit adultery I don't think we won't even care. At the end of the day we may have our things to work on but at least they are not brutal as Iran.
You rape a girl in Iran and the girl gets punished. But no, the US are the evil ones!
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Old 6th September 2007, 19:24   #11
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Its all a public soap opera anyways.

Iran officials might be big talkers but they are not stupid. The moment Iran tries sending nukes this way is the day that area is erased from the planet(again). The only thing that hurts in the end are innocent bystanders.
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Old 6th September 2007, 22:07   #12
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Iran officials might be big talkers but they are not stupid.
Ahmadinejad not stupid? Stupid enough to buy trade sanctions. Stupid enough to present a threat. It is probable that the Iranians aren't stupid enough to let this continue... I'm just hoping it's before shit hits the fan.

Iranians need to understand that no matter who runs the US in coming years, it isn't going to be Jimmy Carter.
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Old 8th September 2007, 01:51   #13
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Originally posted by Smeggle
Then you obviously don't know your history very well. What about the communist witch hunts of the 50's/60's and still going on to this day. The persecution of the coloured American populace especially prevalent in the Southern states and still ongoing to this day...

Theres plenty of evidence to it all - thats if you want to open your eyes and take the blinkers off. Heres a film by the renowned and highly respected journalist Johnathan Pilger, who was the person to expose the horrors of the Cambodian regime under the Khmer Rouge and also reported on the Vietnam War.

In this documentary he exposes the involvement and influences of the US in Latin America - it's kinda long, about 1hour 34mins. If you want to learn something then watch this film, [then tell me that not only your own Government but the British Government are righteous and honorable...

Johnathan Pilger - The War On Democracy

Watch the woman about 1 hour 8mins in, an American woman and what happened to her and who was involved...

***Warning*** Contains very graphic scenes

And thats only one film amongst many that seek to expose the truth. You can find more information if you wish at zdnet probably one of the only reliable sources on the internet.
I gave your film a chance. I view it all the way until the end and I must say WOW. If anybody has an 1hr free of their time please watch this and tell me if you come to the same conclusion. This John Pilger is such anti-American it's not even funny. First the Interview with Hugo Chavez is so wrong in so many ways. First he is only showing the side Hugo Chavez want you to see for example they talked about a private news station called RCTV which they showed people saying there is no censor hmmm fast-forward a couple of months and you will find that the same private news station was close cause Chavez did not want to renew their license because of speaking out against him and conspiring a coup. URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCTV]RCTV WIKI[/URL]

One thing that this film pointed out is how this so call people government are so helpful to their people especially the poor. My family comes from a latin-America country and I have to tell you, when your piss-poor and you have a guy promising the world you will support him no matter if they are a dictator or Nazi. One funny example that happen in my parents country was during election for the local mayor one of the candidate which also was a dentist went to the poor section and starting giving them free dental service. Has that dentist ever gone back after she lost.....NO...Did the poor people who got that service care about the policy or even know about it....No...Did they vote for her.....YES..because that's all they remember.



I mean the whole film blames EVERYTHING on the U.S. I gave your film a chance, but this was to bias on the side of. All these government failed the people it was a democratic government or a dictatorship The U.S. or any other country cant be held accountable for this. This country(U.S.A.) is great cause people strive to be better and work hard it not expect hands-out from the government(lets exclude the small percentage that are to lazy and live off food-stamps )
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Old 8th September 2007, 02:24   #14
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All these government failed the people it was a democratic government or a dictatorship The U.S. or any other country cant be held accountable for this.
Then you obviously need to go watch it again - btw - the part where the coup happened against Chavez? The shooting of the 'Anti - Chavez' march? That was done by an Irish film crew - had nothing to do with Pilger.

What about all the other latin american countries, nothing to do with Chavez who were doing fine until what? The fucking CIA didn't agree with something? it was 'Against American Interests'..

Thats not Pilger talking thats is historical proven fact - he just presented it.

Heres another film http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...95115331&hl=en

the beginning is a bit graphic - but it is an eye opener.

Part of the reason behind the current situation is because of America's involvement in the Coup against Chavez which the CIA were proven to have a hand in (And standard operating practice for those clowns)- again from the Irish film Chavez - Surviving the Coup, absolutely nothing as I say to with Pilger.

Pilger may come across as 'Anti American' to you but then whats he to do? Lie? he doesn't pull any punches and believe me - he's given it to the French and the British just as much and as often. He is not by any means biased no matter what you think. Actually he gives out about the British even worse, he was being kinda nice in that film!

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Old 10th September 2007, 00:50   #15
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There's certainly a big difference between having the bomb, and using it.

Qutie frankly, who are we to judge other countries from developing them. Anything we say is hypocritical at best...
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Old 10th September 2007, 01:43   #16
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Old 17th September 2007, 06:01   #17
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fact are positive things. speculation and bloviage are worthless.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
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Old 19th September 2007, 08:58   #18
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It merely suggests that there are other factions in the Iranian government to whom representatives of the West can appeal.
I would like to know exactly whom we are supposed to talk to in Iran.

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That was one of the reasons why the reforminst Khatami and a similarly "liberal" Majlis (Iranian Parliament) couldn't accomplish all the liberalizing reforms they tried to implement several years ago.
That and being a liberal will get you killed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_murders_of_Iran

Maybe we could dig someone up.

There is nothing to negotiate until Iran gives up it's thinly veiled nuclear weapons program, quits sponsoring terrorists and gets out of Iraq.

I see no one to talk to that is likely to result in any of that happening. This is a hard line right wing government, and you are right Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not all powerful, but he's right in line with a government that is.

The Iranian merchant class funded the Shah's ouster, but I'm not sure they could revoke the power they gave the Ayatollahs, even if they wanted to.
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Old 19th September 2007, 09:54   #19
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wow, a voice of reason
On my internet?! It's more likely than you think.
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Old 19th September 2007, 10:16   #20
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Theres a group of Film Documentaries I came across in the last day or so on Google Video. Something I've suspected for a long time and more shocking than I thought.

The films are by a guy called Adam Curtis (Just go to google video and do a search for him)

Or alternatively The Trap

The Power of Nightmares

Never mind conspiracy theories - if you want historical fact that shows how the world got to where it is today - there you have it. The films are kinda long in 3 pt's and about an hour each.

Theres also another set The Century of Self which is the start of the series - Thats availble in 4 pt's begining HERE

Whats more frightening about it, is when it is seen in the cold hard light of historical proven fact and not as some pieballed conspiracy theory.

(The whole lot is covered in those films btw - Iraq, Iran, Britain, French, U.S. Afghanistan, Islamic Jihad, etc etc..

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Old 19th September 2007, 12:49   #21
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The Power of Nightmares is a well made left wing propaganda piece. So well made that you might not notice that the premise of comparing our near conservatives to the likes of Sayed Qutb is absolutely preposterous.

Still, worth a watch for exploring some of the motives and methods of early islamic radicals such as Qutb. It draws completely ridiculous conclusions about our near conservatives and their motives for the cold war and resisting radical islam.

When someone like the Soviets can drop hundred megaton nuclear warheads on you, it's a real nightmare, not propaganda. When radicals blow up our embassies and attack our military installations it's not paranoia. Our trade center going missing is just about as real as it gets. The "Nightmare" propaganda, if you can buy that baloney, was a real nightmare and pre-dates near conservatives like Wolfowitz with democrats all the way back to Roosevelt. These "imagined" threats were real enough as the Cuban Missile Crisis and the attack on the USS Cole demonstrate along with dozens of other examples of Soviet and radical terrorist actions over the last 60 years.

Here's an interesting film about operations of the KGB in North America:

http://ufosearch.blogspot.com/2007/0...ctionswmv.html

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Old 19th September 2007, 17:03   #22
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we can go discussed this all year long, but I want to talk back to those who think we are the enemy when Iran drop some nuclear bomb labeled "Made In Iran" because we don't follow Islam "RADICAL" teaching.
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Old 19th September 2007, 20:23   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
The Power of Nightmares is a well made left wing propaganda piece. So well made that you might not notice that the premise of comparing our near conservatives to the likes of Sayed Qutb is absolutely preposterous.


Em no he doesn't compare them - he shows how and why the two came about and teh position they hold in todays world and how they got there. Thats quite a big difference and certainly not a comparison in any form.
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Originally posted by rockouthippie
Still, worth a watch for exploring some of the motives and methods of early islamic radicals such as Qutb. It draws completely ridiculous conclusions about our near conservatives and their motives for the cold war and resisting radical islam.
Nope not ridiculous conclusions. Unless you still wish to believe the balderdash garbage fed to you by main stream media that is.
Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
When someone like the Soviets can drop hundred megaton nuclear warheads on you, it's a real nightmare, not propaganda. When radicals blow up our embassies and attack our military installations it's not paranoia. Our trade center going missing is just about as real as it gets. The "Nightmare" propaganda, if you can buy that baloney, was a real nightmare and pre-dates near conservatives like Wolfowitz with democrats all the way back to Roosevelt. These "imagined" threats were real enough as the Cuban Missile Crisis and the attack on the USS Cole demonstrate along with dozens of other examples of Soviet and radical terrorist actions over the last 60 years.
Em - Thats essentially what he says - though he does use what the US has in the same vein have you actually watched these films? I wonder?
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Originally posted by rockouthippie
Here's an interesting film about operations of the KGB in North America:

http://ufosearch.blogspot.com/2007/0...ctionswmv.html
Sorry not wanting to be horrible but anything that has UFO in there is the kind of thing I stay clear of. Generally it is supposition and conspiratorially laced rhetoric...

At the end of the day we could argue back and forth infinitum - Here's an interesting film about operations of the CIA in the USSR....? You see the point? Or how about What the CIA and the KGB operations in London? (Great Britain) I could go on as they were all up to some pathetic paranoid idiocy in one place or another and then we are fed a glutton of hogwash by there media circus.

Even Computers? What do you think they are? Do you think they are this revolutionary new tool that will make the worlds work that much easier (Guffaws hysterically)- What about Mobile Phones? With GPRS?

What!! Identity chips!! Identity Cards!! SHOCK!! The horror of it!! Here have a super mobile phone with GPRS but you need to first register with it to get this amazing 60squiddos of free credit and whats more we sell you the phone with 20squiddos already on it and for good measure heres a free gift all for the price of 79 squiddos!!!

YaY - hey that means I win I get the phone for free

So identity card measures get thrown out and they just got them another way without anyone even being aware of it. But what about 'Un-Registered' phones - I hear you ask? Ah Hah! Got your little conspiracy theory there!!

Really? Keywords? Automatically the word is logged by 'Security Forces Sections' the world over. The NSA and British Intelligence services have been doing this for years, so it's nothing new. That triggers an alert and automatically that phone is triangulated and location logged along with the complete conversation, the phone called and it's location.

That log is then escalated for further investigation. As well both phones are constantly monitored from that moment forth.

Now theres a neat conspiracy theory for you ....

Any truth in it do you think?


btw: nice to see you back

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Old 19th September 2007, 22:13   #24
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[B]warns against initiating military actions against Iran.
.....Notwithstanding Ahmadinejad's unpopularity, still, an attack on Iran will cause Iranians to rally round the flag, so to speak, and nationalism will become rather inflamed.
So we should allow Iran to continue it's atomic energy program and continue to develop ballistic missiles? I don't think trade sanctions and negotiations are likely to work. Iran seems quite willing in a nationalist way to oppose the entire world, not just the US, in their manifest destiny ideas about erradicating Israel and conquering the middle east.

Notwithstanding Ahmadinejad's unpopularity, the national energy of Iran is focused on obtaining the goals of Irans far right. If there is dissent, it's certainly ineffective at this point. If Iran were really a democracy, instead of a theocracy, I think we'd have a choice about military action. At this point, I think it's inevitable. It may not be a choice about attacking Iran. Eventually they will be ready to attack us. If you listen to the Iranian government they will too.

When Ahmadinejad talks about Irans "peaceful" nuclear goals he should pause 10 seconds before threatening Israel in the same sentence. Add Irans ballistic missile program that would be a complete waste of time without nuclear warheads and you begin to get the real picture.

Concern about "inflamed nationalism" in Iran? They already seem to be nationalistic enough to buy trade sanctions and make themselves an outcast in the world community.

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Old 20th September 2007, 01:21   #25
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Any country who has Nuclear arms should be sanctioned, irrespective of who or what they think they are. No country has any right to them and no country has any right to use them no matter what the situation. They are the most abhorrent, disgusting, evil weapon ever devised and any Country that has them or wants them should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

The reasons given for having them are the most pathetic and small minded and immoral that is given. The people who give those arguments for them are just as pathetic, small minded and immoral.

If we as a species have the ability through technology to develop anything that is so destructive then we as a species are abhorrent, immoral and serve no purpose. If that is the best we can do then what are we?

Great? Magnificent? All powerful? Hardly, in any way or form.

Am I or is anyone supposed to respect that ability? Personally, I have 1000/thousand% (percent), more respect for the gentlemen who invented the water bottle filtration system that we heard of just a week or so back. That deserves more respect than any of this. It deserves it because it is one thing only and that is beneficial. Beneficial in a billion more ways than any pathetic, immoral destructive nuclear weapon. And what happens? The pathetic military latch on to it as wondrous military aid. No it isn't and now was it made or invented for that!

The argument as to whether any country should have or not have a nuclear weapon is just as distasteful and immoral as any country that does have them. I have no problem with nuclear energy as long as it is used for good. As long as it is beneficial to our survival and the survival of our planet. But when I see it used as it is, it is nothing short of sickening and anyone who can take pride or rejoice that they have them and a wish to use them even if only as a threatening gesture is the sickest form of life that could be imagined.

Seriously - have we not learned with even the last one hundred years of history that no one wins any war? That all that is left is a sadness on both sides? On any side?

If this continues in the way it is going there will be no winners, there will only be losers and you can bet that will not include the likes of those that say we should do this. We should have pride in it?

Sorry, but personally I can't think of anything to be proud of in this. Indeed, what has been perpetrated over the last 6 short years makes me ashamed of what I am supposed to be, a human being. I would say that to all parties involved, no matter what there creed, nationality, religion or belief.

I say that because I believe that nothing and certainly not any of the four last mentioned concepts have any sanctity above that of another human beings life.

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Old 26th September 2007, 15:46   #26
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Lets get clear about some stuff. The world would be a better place if Saddam was still the brutal dictator of Iraq and our Army was at home in barracks. "Stability" is not synonymous with American interests. It is a fair approximation of "profitable for the oil cartel" but that's
not something I particularly give a flying fuck about. If Iran actually got a nuclear weapon and decided to threaten us with it we might remind them that we have several thousand of those puppies, mounted on a variety of technological delivery platforms, and if they really want
to play in that league, a believable threat or an actual action could lead us to converting them to a wide expanse of glass.

There are a number of people on the right wing of American politics who actually believe that there is a danger of the Caliphate reconstituting itself and forcing us to bow to their god. I never thought I would have to say this but there is no danger whatsoever of that. Iran does not, by any stretch of the imagination, constitute an existential threat to us. Neither does the entirety of the Muslim world in concerted effort. This continuous fantasy terror has just got to stop. It's foolish.

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Old 26th September 2007, 18:11   #27
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Unlike say the Americans, British, Russians, Chinese, French, Australians, Israeli, Germans and others who all have Nuclear Weapons and some of the worst 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'...
no nukes in oz dude.

we don't even have a nuclear power plant.(we have a reactor for medical radioisotopes and research)


btw bill.

iran is a huge risk to israel, saudi arabia, iraq(the new iraq), kuwait, bahrain and UAE.(and any other closeby country that has western influence)

the iranian government are fricken loonatics.

come to think of it many iranians are idiots... see Mr007 for instance.

if iran is allowed to have nukes, other countries will want them aswell.
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Old 26th September 2007, 18:36   #28
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Any country who has Nuclear arms should be sanctioned, irrespective of who or what they think they are. No country has any right to them and no country has any right to use them no matter what the situation.
Keep in mind that it can be quite hard to sanction a guy with bigger guns than you.

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They are the most abhorrent, disgusting, evil weapon ever devised and any country that has them or wants them should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
I'd say that biological weapons are much much worse. Given the short amount of time it takes to get between any two cities, a biological attack by a competent party would likely cause a pandemic. I also don't see your argument for nuclear weapons being "evil". Admittedly, the radiation and fallout from the weapons is pretty bad. Aside from that, though, what's your argument against them? Is it because they kill a lot of people? That's the purpose of a bomb. That's basically how weapons have been designed to do for ages: kill the enemy as effectively as possible while avoiding harm as much as possible.

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The reasons given for having them are the most pathetic and small minded and immoral that is given. The people who give those arguments for them are just as pathetic, small minded and immoral.
Weapons like nukes are good deterrents. I think that self-defense is a damn good reason.

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If we as a species have the ability through technology to develop anything that is so destructive then we as a species are abhorrent, immoral and serve no purpose. If that is the best we can do then what are we?
You're saying that just because we know how to kill people we are abhorrent? A knowledge of, and a desire to use are two different things. Most people could easily kill somebody. Does that mean they will?

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...And what happens? The pathetic military latch on to it a wondrous military aid. No it isn't and now was it made or invented for that!
It's water filtration. How could you possibly say that it's bad that the military is using it? What difference does it make if a soldier or a camper gets fresh water? Get off your high horse. Who are you to say that the military doesn't get to use a technology? It's not like they're gonna use the fresh water to drown people.


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The argument as to whether any country should have or not have a nuclear weapon is just as distasteful and immoral as any country that does have them. I have no problem with nuclear energy as long as it is used for good. As long as it is beneficial to our survival and the survival of our planet. But when I see it used as it is, it is nothing short of sickening and anyone who can take pride or rejoice that they have them and a wish to use them even if only as a threatening gesture is the sickest form of life that could be imagined.
If you replace nuclear power with any other technology that can be both a constructive and destructive force, you'd realize how silly your argument sounds. "I'm against fire if it's used to hurt people." "Metallurgy is bad if it's used to make swords."




tl;dr: We all agree that war should be avoided at all costs, Smeggle. We all agree that nuclear weapons should be only used if *absolutely* necessary. However, I don't think that they should be banned outright because they can kill people.

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Old 27th September 2007, 09:57   #29
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If you replace nuclear power with any other technology that can be both a constructive and destructive force, you'd realize how silly your argument sounds. "I'm against fire if it's used to hurt people." "Metallurgy is bad if it's used to make swords."
Yes and thats the point - they are bad if they are used to hurt people. Most of your argument is semantic and I could easily have discounted my own statements myself. Thats not a slur or meant as offensive btw on the flip side of what I said you are right and the quote I have used above from what you said doesn't really put my argument as silly but does show a semantic flaw.

However that flaw is only shown if it is judged within terms of 'Our Standard mentality'. And it is the general mentality (And Morals) that is at fault. As you rightfully say, chemical/biological weapons are every bit as bad as nuclear but then so is fire and metal as you sort of point out in the quote above.

Inherently though it is not the fire or metal that is at fault but the mentality of those who use it. An indoctrinated mentality that starts more or less as soon as you are born. Same goes for anything really - what you are taught, what you are influenced with is what you will become.

I chose to question what I was taught, what I was being influenced with and I decided they were wrong, (Wrong in so many ways). I don't see the need for any weapons. I don't see the need for any conflict. Apart from them being abhorrent to me I just see them as pathetic and any argument for either is just as pathetic irrespective of the side that is doing it.

That argument aside it's time for a wake up call in how we as a species view our whole existence. If we don't, I seriously don't think we will be a species on this planet for much longer. And that is serious. It's time we stop this stupidity of Nationality, Religion, Oppressive beliefs most of which are locked with in the other two.

It's time we started to look at just what we are. I don't see a Chinese person, Russian, American, Libyan, Saudi, Australian, British, French, German, Austrian, Polish, Italian, Iraqi, Indian, Argentinian, Spanish, Portugese etc etc et al..I don't see skin colour, I don't see Catholic, (Although I was supposedly born one), Muslim, KKK, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu etc al...

All I see is another human being, some with issues that they really need to deal with others without...

Theres a film that kicks about (on youtube I think) about the Internet. Was a news story from back in 1994 - one of the statements in in was similar to what I have just said, With computers there is no religion, no nationality, no colour prejudice, no need for conflict (basically - not exact but close enough)..

I say it's about time we, the ordinary people of this planet, tell this 1% who order us into these situations, who tell us we should be shooting and blowing the crap out of each other in the name of some imagined Uber Demi Being to go boil them selves a one.

Maybe I do live in dreamland that one day some how we can all live together but it's nice to dream and for me it would be an amazing dream. Still it is what it is at the moment - who knows though - one day maybe, one day....

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Old 27th September 2007, 10:26   #30
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Unfortunately more then 1% of the population believes in conflict. Quite a large percentage of people believe that conflict is necessary at some level. Also just about every major conflict ever taken on was about self preservation. Which goes to say that people in general are scared. At different levels and about different things people in general fear unknowns or changes in life. That is an inherent nature not, in my opinion, taught. It is a factor of who we are as a species. If you could provide some way to make people feel safe from their neighbor you would fix about 99% of the reasons why we go to war with each other. I think this is a difficult thing to achieve due to how many of us there are. Each one of us represents a view point or difference, which scares alot of people.
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Old 27th September 2007, 17:35   #31
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Unfortunately more then 1% of the population believes in conflict. Quite a large percentage of people believe that conflict is necessary at some level. Also just about every major conflict ever taken on was about self preservation. Which goes to say that people in general are scared. At different levels and about different things people in general fear unknowns or changes in life. That is an inherent nature not, in my opinion, taught. It is a factor of who we are as a species. If you could provide some way to make people feel safe from their neighbor you would fix about 99% of the reasons why we go to war with each other. I think this is a difficult thing to achieve due to how many of us there are. Each one of us represents a view point or difference, which scares a lot of people.

Agreed - more than 1% do but I was talking about the politicians there not the ordinary people.

Most major conflicts, especially those in the last century I don't think of as self preservation and a lot of the evidence that is coming out now shows a completely different picture. that comes down to just who was behind the two wars especially the second world war.

As for fears being inherent - yes again I agree, 'Inherented' from there parents, family and peers. A baby knows nothing about the complexities of society, yes it can be frightened bu sudden loud noises but it basically does not know fear par se. A lot of that is taught I believe...

Still, what you are saying raises some very valid points, especially
Quote:
If you could provide some way to make people feel safe from their neighbor you would fix about 99% of the reasons why we go to war with each other.
Couldn't have said that better myself

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Old 28th September 2007, 04:50   #32
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Should the French be part of the axis of evil since they don't want Iran with nukes. Oh I know let's not hit them with bomb but send some of our best queers over there to spice things up since they seem to lack that over there.
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Old 28th September 2007, 12:11   #33
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Should the French be part of the axis of evil since they don't want Iran with nukes. Oh I know let's not hit them with bomb but send some of our best queers over there to spice things up since they seem to lack that over there.
Should America be part of the axis of evil considering they have one of the largest collections of W.M.D.'s in existence? Oh yes I know we could always send the collective amount of Gays in America over there to spice things up since they seem to lack that over there.

Que Sa?

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Old 30th September 2007, 07:21   #34
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if true, it shows a brazen side of bush even i thought was impossible. All the deaths, american, iraqi, innocent and guilt alike could have been avoided. And our increasingly crushed ecomomy could have been possible saved by allowing Sadamm to disappear with 1/10 id 1% of the vast fortune we've wasted. So much wastes, so much death.

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Old 30th September 2007, 20:21   #35
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if true, it shows a brazen side of bush even i thought was impossible. All the deaths, american, iraqi, innocent and guilt alike could have been avoided. And our increasingly crushed ecomomy could have been possible saved by allowing Sadamm to disappear with 1/10 id 1% of the vast fortune we've wasted. So much wastes, so much death.
I was reading about that earlier - about Hussein saying he would leave and go into exile - I think the figure he was looking for was quite ludicrous 1 billion US - if that is to be believed of course....

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Old 1st October 2007, 04:23   #36
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He was asking to be allowed to take $1b of the funds he'd already accumulated through the normal channels of graft, not asking the us for a fresh pay check. He was just saying,
"I've already stolen this money fair and square. Let me go quietly and take it with me, and I'll go without a fight and you're welcome to steal the rest."

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
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Old 1st October 2007, 19:00   #37
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He was asking to be allowed to take $1b of the funds he'd already accumulated through the normal channels of graft, not asking the us for a fresh pay check. He was just saying,
"I've already stolen this money fair and square. Let me go quietly and take it with me, and I'll go without a fight and you're welcome to steal the rest."
Post of the Day.

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Old 8th June 2011, 19:05   #38
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Iran to triple nuke output, use better centrifuges

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press – Wed Jun 8, 7:46 am ET


TEHRAN, Iran – Iran will soon install more advanced centrifuges at its new uranium enrichment site, the country's nuclear chief said Wednesday, underscoring Tehran's continued defiance in the face of international sanctions imposed over its controversial nuclear program.

Vice President Fereidoun Abbasi also announced that Iran plans to triple its output of the higher enriched uranium in 2011 and move the entire program to the new, secretly-built facility.

The uranium enrichment lies at the heart of Iran's dispute with the West, which is concerned that the activity masks efforts to make nuclear weapons — a charge Tehran denies, insisting the work is peaceful and only meant to generate electricity.

Abbasi, who also heads Iran's nuclear agency, said that Tehran would set up the more efficient centrifuges, suitable for higher-grade uranium enrichment, at the Fordo site near the holy city of Qom in central Iran.

Built next to a military complex to protect it in case of an attack, Fordo was long kept secret and was only acknowledged by Iran after it was identified by Western intelligence agencies in September 2009.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110608/...a/iran_nuclear
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