Old 30th December 2015, 21:18   #1
Bryon Stout
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Live365 closing its doors?

http://go.2live365.com/l/a/30/ot/mj3...4l/trouble.htm


Dear Live365 Listener,

For 17 years, Live365 has offered small webcasters the opportunity to stream music and talk programming, providing an alternative distribution channel for diverse, quality content on the Internet in a legally responsible way.

Recently, the Copyright Royalty Board, the governing entity for establishing the sound recording royalty rates that are paid to copyright holders, has published the new rates for 2016-20. The previous provisions for small webcasters to opt for a percentage of revenue model were not renewed.

The current provisions end at the end of 2015. The absence of this license will make legally streaming copyrighted musical content prohibitively expensive for many small to mid-sized Internet broadcasters. Live365 relies on this license for many of their broadcast partners and, as such, has hard decisions to make regarding their future in the streaming industry.

Two weeks ago, Live365 faced an additional blow, losing the support of its investors who have helped the company with its mission for over a decade.

The company was forced to significantly reduce staff and is now actively looking for partners to help continue the service into 2016. At this time, Live365 is planning to keep their stations active while getting the word out about this investment opportunity. With nearly two decades of Internet streaming experience and thousands of paying customers, this could be an ideal situation for a company looking to diversify into streaming audio.

CEO N. Mark Lam has begun initial discussions with possible business partners as the company looks to new options in the new year.

Dean Kattari, Director of Broadcasting for Live365:

"The true value of Live365 lies in it's diversity of content - it's a sanctuary where you can hear music and other content that it so unlike the template broadcasting that is heard on most terrestrial radio. These stations are the hard work of real human beings who use Live365 to share their vision with the world. It's a home for musical discovery because many of these stations play emerging artists that terrestrial stations are reluctant to take a chance on. It would be a great loss for this to all go away."

While Live365 is going through this process, we understand that our listeners will have questions about how all of this will affect their service so we have provided a simple FAQ section to help answer some of them.

We thank you for being part of the Live365 family and hope for the best in 2016.

Rock on,

The Last of the Live365ers


FAQ

So what happened?
Please refer to the full PR bulletin here. Basically, Live365 may not be able to continue service for our broadcasters after January 31, 2016; so streaming audio may stop at that point.
Can I still get support for my current services?
We will be deferring all inquiries to email correspondence only. Technicians will be accessing emails 7 days a week throughout January to assist our listeners. For Inquiries, please email listensupport@live365.com.

How does this affect my VIP services?
Many of our stations will continue broadcasting until January 31th. You can use that time to research other streaming provider options.

I prepaid for the year/3 months/6 months, am I eligible for any refunds?
Prorated refund of services will be facilitated by requests sent to Refund@live365.com. Please note these emails will be handled with the highest priority.
So that we can quickly reply to your requests, please include at least one of the following:
Username - Email address - Account number

Why is my preferred station is not broadcasting?
Due to the new rulings of the Copyright Royalty Board, some of our stations (Personal Broadcasters) will not be issued a new license for 2016 so they might stop broadcasting at the end of December. Our Pro Broadcasting stations should continue for the duration of January.
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Old 30th December 2015, 21:52   #2
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I hope that it doesn't shut down.

I like Live365 and I love listening to it.
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Old 31st December 2015, 07:21   #3
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"nearly the entire staff was laid off this week. The company vacated its office space, and the few remaining personnel are working from their homes."

http://rainnews.com/live365-suffers-...acates-office/

It is not looking good at all.

This decision by RIAA has pretty much gutted Internet music broadcasting in the United States - OR - listening to music stations from outside the United States. I just hope and pray that Radionomy can pull through all this crap.

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Old 31st December 2015, 12:57   #4
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So it looks like the RIAA have got their wish....RIP Internet radio

The future of streaming is only going to be for the rich and big corporations like Apple.

I just wonder how many stations will just go Pirate ...

I mean there's hundreds of stations out there on the net with no licence to stream and some of them have been on the go for 15+ years and no one seems to be hunting them down.

Or maybe that's the RIAA's next mission who knows 2016 looks like it will be an interesting year for streaming.



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Old 3rd January 2016, 02:54   #5
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even if Radionomy pulls through, stations still have to pay licensing and royalty fees. At the new rates, it's looking pretty bleak for the small webcaster - unless Radionomy is going to pay those fees for the web caster (which I don't think they do/will)
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Old 3rd January 2016, 03:48   #6
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Radionomy DOES pay those fees. In order to have royalty fees paid and the unlimited streaming, you must maintain a certain listener level.

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Old 3rd January 2016, 10:45   #7
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Radionomy DOES pay those fees. In order to have royalty fees paid and the unlimited streaming, you must maintain a certain listener level.

Just to clarify... Radionomy pays licensing/royalty fees for Radionomy stations, but not for SHOUTcast stations.


I know you already knew/meant that, Sankt, but I just wanted to point it out to others who might interpret it to mean that Radionomy also pays the fees for SHOUTcast stations... who would need to use a service like StreamLicensing instead.... (feel free to list other licensing/royalty services here).
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Old 3rd January 2016, 21:33   #8
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You can sign for Radionomy streaming here : http://www.radionomy.com/en/static/produce.

Christian Genre Licensing : http://us.ccli.com

Christian Genre Licensing : http://www.christiancopyrightsolutions.com

The Stream Licensing company: http://www.streamlicensing.com

ProNet Licensing: http://www.pronetlicensing.com

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Old 4th January 2016, 12:46   #9
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Im somewhat curious to radionomys stand with this situation right now. I havent heard any comments on the impact of the latest decision, or how it will effect the entity that saved SHOUTcast/ Winamp.

Trips to Washington/ meet with PRO members?


........Long time since I last visited, guess its time to update my Signature....

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Old 4th January 2016, 17:12   #10
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The European media conglomerate Vivendi that owns Universal Music Group, Canal+ and Dailymotion bought a large share of Radionomy in December last year. By all accounts, investors are not going to jump ship from Radionomy like they did for Live365.

http://tech.eu/brief/vivendi-majority-stake-radionomy/

I would think that Radionomy can leverage its financial power to weather the storm. It can also use it's relevance in the EU trading block to guide changes in the "protectionist" measures that RIAA and SECAM are initiating. Does that European Free Trade Agreement ring a bell ?

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Old 6th January 2016, 18:44   #11
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live365 refugee looking for alternatives

live365 is pulling the plug on 1/31. As mentioned, radionomy requires you to get to 130 listener hours per day by your 9th month or you are gone. Forever.

Microcasters like me are looking for new homes, and I'd sure love to hear from folks out there on how this might be done and with whom. radionomy would only be a stopgap for me. Less than 128kbps streaming is not an option. My station is a music station that folks tune in to for the quality as much as anything. If you can suggest something for me, here's my wishlist:

1. Must be legal and include royalties, with derivation from tags
2. Must be >= 128kbps mp3
3. Needs to have easy to use client DJ software (we have non-technical folks)
4. Must be rock solid
5. Must support at least 50 listeners
6. Must be one-stop shopping

Please help! radionomy isn't an option down the road because they require 130 listener hours per day at the 9 month mark. Right now I'm at about 40 TLH and I doubt I can more than triple my audience in 9 months. It took me 3+ years to get to this point.
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Old 9th January 2016, 05:53   #12
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Have you considered combining your station with another existing station and both of you work together to get your required TLH ?

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Old 10th January 2016, 19:06   #13
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teaming up

Yes I would consider that, especially since most of my live shows are primetime eastern U.S. and occasional weekends.

I've been diligently testing out DJ software for live broadcasting, and I need some advice here. I have 8 DJ's and nobody can spend much money, so SAM Broadcaster is not an option.

Played a bunch with winamp/shoutcast DSP and it works ok, BUT! studio365-live (v3) is SO easy to use, combined with their drivers you talk by simply unmuting, over the music, with no other "sound input driver" fuss. I can talk over the music, or pause the music and keep talking. How the hell do I do this? Is there any software out there that can?

help!
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Old 11th January 2016, 21:22   #14
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Just use centovacast > liquidsoap, Have your broadcasters use BUTT and call it a day.
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Old 12th January 2016, 15:48   #15
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I had Live365's smallest package (5 listeners or less).
I really am only interested in streaming to myself as I travel alot and don't want to carry my entire library around with me.

What's my best option to stream to an audience of one (myself) and not run afoul of Royalty/Copyright rules?
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Old 12th January 2016, 22:41   #16
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Make your stream private via config file or with the GUI of whatever auto DJ you use.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Private_DJ View Post
I had Live365's smallest package (5 listeners or less).
I really am only interested in streaming to myself as I travel alot and don't want to carry my entire library around with me.

What's my best option to stream to an audience of one (myself) and not run afoul of Royalty/Copyright rules?
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Old 15th January 2016, 12:48   #17
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Marvin from Stream Licensing reckons hundreds of radio stations have gone off air this past 2 weeks.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/business...casters/277738



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Old 20th January 2016, 15:38   #18
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Also I myself had created accounts on Live365, Ustream and Mixlr.

Mixlr was the only-one internet radio, where I had broadcasted live, when it was free yet with an unlimited broadcast time, and when Mixlr had the SoundCloud-Playlist yet. In April 2014 the Soundcloud-Playlist had been removed, and 1 month later the New Pricing Plan had been introduced. Usually 1 hour for free accounts is not enough.

I am already afraid, that Live365 will not be the only-one internet radio, which possibly has to close its doors soon. I will be very sad, if we will lose also Mixlr and Ustream...

Edit:
I have found via the Google Search "ende von kleinen internet radio stationen" and "zukunft von shoutcast radio" also "USA: Kahlschlag bei Webradios wegen neuer Copyright-Tantiemen". I don't want to post the link, because it is a .html-link and no "normal" link. The overview-link has to be enough:
http://www.heise.de/thema/Internetradio

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Old 21st January 2016, 11:43   #19
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That is the same bullshit like here in Germany. With very high license fees the industry tries to close out small radios. The fact that you have to pay in Germany whether royalty free music or not is killing all small radios.
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Old 21st January 2016, 12:12   #20
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It's worldwide GREED by artists and record companies that is screwing the small hobby broadcasters over!



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Last edited by DJ-Garybaldy; 21st January 2016 at 13:23.
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Old 21st January 2016, 17:39   #21
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Gary, the artists rarely see any major amounts of money. It's the record labels and the royalty collection agencies that are the greedy lot. You would be surprised at how many well known artists have had to sue their record labels over royalty money not paid out. Dolly Parton (Extremely famous country music star) was one of the artists that had to sue her label. The music labels excuse for not sending royalty payments was - they had lost her mail address. Very very very sad and pathetic to say the least!

This is all about control. Cumulus Media and IHeart Radio have turned terrestrial radio into a three ring circus with satellite audio feeds that masquerade as local content / DJ's. Terrestrial radio does not like competition and will do what ever it can to squash Internet radio. Just like the cable companies are bleeding customers because of the cord cutting. Why pay for expensive cable program packages - when you can simply subscribe to Amazon, Hulu and Netflix for a quarter of the price! The cable companies / wireless companies are always "adjusting" the bandwidth caps to "facilitate" good bandwidth data access. In other words - they don't want you to get your content from other sources via the Internet - just the cable company!

Let us not forget that the Record Labels and the Music Industry has some of the best politicians that money (aka "campaign donations") can buy.

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Old 21st January 2016, 17:44   #22
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If a royalty agency came after me - claiming that I owed money for streaming Public Domain or Creative Commons Licensed content - I would call every snake in the grass, ambulance chasing lawyer I could find and tell the ignorant idiots to bring it on.

I don't play silly games with fools

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Old 22nd January 2016, 15:01   #23
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securenet systems - helping live365 clients

we are setting up many, many former live365 clients on our network. we can get you set up immediately with no down time.

for information on how to transfer your streams over asap, call x+xxx-xxx-xxxx, or visit www.google.com for assistance.

securenet has the highest-rated streaming codecs and universal HTM5 players. we also share ad revenue with all our ad network participants.

we are here to help you!

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Old 22nd January 2016, 15:19   #24
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we are setting up many, many former live365 clients on our network. we can get you set up immediately with no down time.

for information on how to transfer your streams over asap, call x+xxx-xxx-xxxx, or visit www.google.com for assistance.

securenet has the highest-rated streaming codecs and universal HTM5 players. we also share ad revenue with all our ad network participants.

we are here to help you!

j morris
Are you also covering their license fees too? .... That would be amazing IF you were!



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Old 22nd January 2016, 15:39   #25
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we do the royalty accounting

but do not pay the royalties. this is a broken business model. crystal media networks, live365 and a few others that have tried it have failed. you gotta pay if you wanna play, but we can help with some advice and ideas as to what others are doing...give us a call.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 16:26   #26
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I don't think you're going to get many calls if you're NOT a License provider TBH!

Every stream host is promising the same thing for Live365 users but what they really need is a place to license their stream etc ...

I guess IF you can't provide licensing then you're NOT much use to anyone stream hosts are 10 a penny these days....



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Old 24th January 2016, 04:04   #27
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Radionomy seems to be doing very well at covering both stream hosting and paying music royalties Jim Morris.

P.S.

Please don't spam the forums with advertising :-)

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Old 24th January 2016, 12:49   #28
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Please don't spam the forums with advertising :-)
Hey, that reminds me of our recent conversation about advertising in the forums.
First, you locked the thread. Now I can't find it.
Has it been completely removed?

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Old 24th January 2016, 17:46   #29
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Mr. Ryerman, that thread was saved in evidentiary status should additional actions need to be taken.

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Old 24th January 2016, 17:52   #30
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If the Copyright Royalty Board actually submitted a workable plan on artists royalty, then a business paying royalties would be doable.

The PPL license in the UK is an excellent example of a very fair licensing system.

Quote:
Small radio service

An online radio station or simulcast where the audience cannot influence their listening experience by, for example, skipping tracks or pausing the broadcast.

To qualify for this licence, the service must have revenues of less than £5,000 a year and no more than 270,000 performances* each year.

How much does a PPL licence cost?

Fees are currently £206.32 (plus VAT) for the 2016 licence year. Any service that launches after 1st January in any given licence year will initially pay a pro-rata fee for the period from the licence commencement date to 31st December.

Everyone that holds a PPL Small Webcaster licence must submit a report at the end of every quarter to PPL detailing the total amount of time the service has been listened to and the average number of recorded music tracks broadcast per hour.

*One performance is when one user streams one recorded music track broadcast in the service.
http://www.ppluk.com/I-Play-Music/Ra...-and-services/

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Old 24th January 2016, 18:00   #31
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The PPL license stipulates less than 270,000 plays per year.

That breaks down to:

22,500 plays per month.

or

750 plays per day (based on a 30 day month).

or

31.25 plays per hour.

Anything above that would fall under the next tier.

* Commercial

or

* Non Commercial

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Old 24th January 2016, 18:22   #32
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A growing movement is also being made for a universal blanket license under the authority of WIPO, or another multinational IP rights group.

Quote:
Historically, music publishers and collecting societies administered their rights on a territory-by-territory basis and as users themselves operated within a single territory, this was unproblematic. With greater market integration and the emergence of digital networks, however, a growing number of observers are recognizing that territorial approaches to licensing are becoming unworkable.

The desire for a one-stop shop for the online licensing of music rights across Europe was the root of a complaint by broadcaster RTL to the EC in 2000. The complaint was triggered by the refusal of the German authors’ society GEMA to grant a pan-European license “for all its music broadcasting activities, both national and international via traditional and new forms of exploitation”. A similar complaint was filed in 2003, by European digital and interactive broadcaster Music Choice against CISAC2. The two complaints were subsequently consolidated and in July 2009 the Commission ruled in favor of RTL and Music Choice.

The EC reasoned that the societies were anti-competitive because they had created a closed network in which each individual society has the exclusive right to grant licenses to commercial users within its national territory. The Commission considered that this constrained authors and composers as well as broadcasters: the former being required to join the collecting society of the country of their domicile and the latter being required to conclude licensing agreements with the collecting societies of each country in which they operated.
http://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en...icle_0004.html

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Old 24th January 2016, 18:38   #33
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Mr. Ryerman, that thread was saved in evidentiary status should additional actions need to be taken.
Why does "saved in evidentiary status" require it to be removed from sight?
Leaving it on the forum as a locked thread won't change its content, truth, or effectiveness.
If evidence is truly required, it is most effective and believable when it is published openly.

And what "additional actions" are contemplated? Actions to further what end?
If you believe I've violated some rule, please be specific instead of merely implying that I have committed some offence.

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Old 24th January 2016, 22:17   #34
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Another strong possibility for alternate content is the use of Creative Commons or Public Domain. There are several record labels that do allow their content to be used for broadcasting or streaming.

https://creativecommons.org/record-labels/

(Magnatunes is not one of them however.)

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Old 29th January 2016, 11:49   #35
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2 days to go...

You'd think with that much time left there would be some stations on Live365 getting ready for the inevitable but it seems most are carrying on like nothings going to happen...

Sunday will be a dark day for Internet radio that's for sure....Unless there's a last minute deal to save it but i doubt that's going to happen.



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Old 29th January 2016, 15:34   #36
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I remember January 2012, when suddenly the German users had lost the access to Grooveshark, while I was editing my playlists. Suddenly nothing had worked anymore, and I had do delete the cookies. And Grooveshark was not the only-one music-website, we lost the access also to We7, MOG and another website, where the users had built playlists (the name of this website cannot be posted). I myself didn't learn to know Pandora anymore in 2010.

I am afraid, that some more Dark Sundays will follow, not only this one...

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Old 29th January 2016, 15:59   #37
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Grooveshark shut down last year anyway because it was being used for uploading pirated songs...It was no huge surprise TBH most of the audio of songs on there was sub standard.



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Old 29th January 2016, 16:19   #38
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I myself have just discovered it, too...
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grooveshark

For my 10 uploaded songs I myself had the copyrights, because I am the artist Sabine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine. After loosing the access as listener I had lost also the access to the Artist Dashboard, where I had checked the statistics as musician.

My own music is also on many other music websites...

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Old 31st January 2016, 09:55   #39
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LIVE 365 1999-2016 RIP

It's a sad day indeed it was live365 that introduced me to Internet radio back in 1999.



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Old 1st February 2016, 03:07   #40
sankt
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: www.ScenicRadio.com
Posts: 2,975
Today is the day.



I was fortunate enough to have received a T-Shirt when they launched the company.

C'est la vie

Scenic Television is your ambient window to the world - - Television.ScenicRadio.com
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