Old 12th December 2011, 20:35   #1
MrSinatra
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win7 file permissions angering me!

so, i usually rip with EAC right to my system drive. but i had a big project to do, so this time i ripped directly to my ext drive where all the music ends up anyway.

plays fine in winamp, but i can't edit a damn thing. check the permissions, and lo and behold, my one acct, mrsinatra, under users doesn't have write access.

why is this? not only how do i fix it, but how do i keep it from happening?

to be clear, when i look at the files i made this "new" way, in file props, under the security tab, the group "system" and "administrator" have access, while "user" does not. this is somewhat confusing since the only profile is "mrsinatra" and is listed under both admin and users.

how do i put an end to this madness, meaning fix whats there, and keep it from happening going forward? thx.

edit: i should also add, i clone the whole library onto multiple ext drives on multiple systems with totally different users and/or OS's, and i want anyone to be able to write access these, not just read them, from the get go. i think all these types of permissions things should be "opt in" not opt out. pisses me off.

edit2: i am trying to make my changes propagate to all files and subfolders under the roots of where i made these rips. how???

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Old 13th December 2011, 04:43   #2
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Hi MrSinatra,

Why is this?

This is the result of blaming Windows for the virus and malware writers of the world. The average user demanded Microsoft give them an easy fix. There are new rules of the road. Get used to them, they are here to stay. The administrator account can be used to change permissions on a file by file basis. I'm sure someone will or may have already come up with a way to make mass changes. I have not yet heard of any that are easy and reliable.

It seems the average user is just a user. They have no desire to create or edit content. They are content with what is provided by others. When people demand an easy fix, things are reduced to the lowest common denominator. Sad, but true. So your new (old) way of creating content on an external drive has new restrictions when you want to change things.

Some of the Win 7 security defaults can be modified. Do a web search. It is beyond the scope of this forum to get into the details here. Good hunting.
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Old 13th December 2011, 04:54   #3
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i know how to fix it manually, i'm just looking for a less time consuming way. i don't need a philosophical discussion nor do i need to hear that this is outside the scope of the forum, since it isn't. i want to mod files with winamp and can't, so the Q is how to make it possible, thats fair game here.

edit: interestingly, if i run winamp by right clicking, then running as admin, i can make edits and so on. my user is an admin, but not the way it used to be b4 win7 it seems.

regardless, i just want to mass update permissions.

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Old 13th December 2011, 05:27   #4
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so here is what isn't working:

http://www.mediafire.com/i/?d75uvn8b7rms7or

and here is what is working:

http://www.mediafire.com/i/?eg8dcrmqir1r4jk

i notice that the first group entry [under system] from the good one is missing in the bad one. i don't know why when i rip to the system drive with EAC it is there, but if i rip direct to the ext drive with EAC it isn't there. damn irritating. so i need some way to put that entry there into all those folders and files. am i just adding an owner?

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Old 13th December 2011, 08:08   #5
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Sorry for the 'philosophical discussion', you did ask why.

Yes, you just need to add an owner and the right inheritances to the files or folders and files.

The Windows command line utility "icacls.exe" will allow you to mass update permissions. This utility should be in your Win 7 "Windows/System32" folder. You will have to research the exact syntax to use in your case.

"SetACL" is a commercial utility that reports to have a way around the 260 character path+filename limit, if that is an issue.
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Old 13th December 2011, 08:31   #6
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thx, but this is def above my head. i have all the folders and files in two spots, so 2 "root sub-folders" if you will.

here is the syntax explanation:

Quote:
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>icacls.exe

ICACLS name /save aclfile [/T] [/C] [/L] [/Q]
stores the DACLs for the files and folders that match the name
into aclfile for later use with /restore. Note that SACLs,
owner, or integrity labels are not saved.

ICACLS directory [/substitute SidOld SidNew [...]] /restore aclfile
[/C] [/L] [/Q]
applies the stored DACLs to files in directory.

ICACLS name /setowner user [/T] [/C] [/L] [/Q]
changes the owner of all matching names. This option does not
force a change of ownership; use the takeown.exe utility for
that purpose.

ICACLS name /findsid Sid [/T] [/C] [/L] [/Q]
finds all matching names that contain an ACL
explicitly mentioning Sid.

ICACLS name /verify [/T] [/C] [/L] [/Q]
finds all files whose ACL is not in canonical form or whose
lengths are inconsistent with ACE counts.

ICACLS name /reset [/T] [/C] [/L] [/Q]
replaces ACLs with default inherited ACLs for all matching files.

ICACLS name [/grant[:r] Sid:perm[...]]
[/deny Sid:perm [...]]
[/remove[:g|:d]] Sid[...]] [/T] [/C] [/L] [/Q]
[/setintegritylevel Level:policy[...]]

/grant[:r] Sid:perm grants the specified user access rights. With :r,
the permissions replace any previouly granted explicit permissions.
Without :r, the permissions are added to any previously granted
explicit permissions.

/deny Sid:perm explicitly denies the specified user access rights.
An explicit deny ACE is added for the stated permissions and
the same permissions in any explicit grant are removed.

/remove[:[g|d]] Sid removes all occurrences of Sid in the ACL. With
:g, it removes all occurrences of granted rights to that Sid. With
:d, it removes all occurrences of denied rights to that Sid.

/setintegritylevel [(CI)(OI)]Level explicitly adds an integrity
ACE to all matching files. The level is to be specified as one
of:
L[ow]
M[edium]
H[igh]
Inheritance options for the integrity ACE may precede the level
and are applied only to directories.

/inheritance:e|d|r
e - enables inheritance
d - disables inheritance and copy the ACEs
r - remove all inherited ACEs


Note:
Sids may be in either numerical or friendly name form. If a numerical
form is given, affix a * to the start of the SID.

/T indicates that this operation is performed on all matching
files/directories below the directories specified in the name.

/C indicates that this operation will continue on all file errors.
Error messages will still be displayed.

/L indicates that this operation is performed on a symbolic link
itself versus its target.

/Q indicates that icacls should supress success messages.

ICACLS preserves the canonical ordering of ACE entries:
Explicit denials
Explicit grants
Inherited denials
Inherited grants

perm is a permission mask and can be specified in one of two forms:
a sequence of simple rights:
N - no access
F - full access
M - modify access
RX - read and execute access
R - read-only access
W - write-only access
D - delete access
a comma-separated list in parentheses of specific rights:
DE - delete
RC - read control
WDAC - write DAC
WO - write owner
S - synchronize
AS - access system security
MA - maximum allowed
GR - generic read
GW - generic write
GE - generic execute
GA - generic all
RD - read data/list directory
WD - write data/add file
AD - append data/add subdirectory
REA - read extended attributes
WEA - write extended attributes
X - execute/traverse
DC - delete child
RA - read attributes
WA - write attributes
inheritance rights may precede either form and are applied
only to directories:
(OI) - object inherit
(CI) - container inherit
(IO) - inherit only
(NP) - don't propagate inherit
(I) - permission inherited from parent container

Examples:

icacls c:\windows\* /save AclFile /T
- Will save the ACLs for all files under c:\windows
and its subdirectories to AclFile.

icacls c:\windows\ /restore AclFile
- Will restore the Acls for every file within
AclFile that exists in c:\windows and its subdirectories.

icacls file /grant Administrator:(D,WDAC)
- Will grant the user Administrator Delete and Write DAC
permissions to file.

icacls file /grant *S-1-1-0:(D,WDAC)
- Will grant the user defined by sid S-1-1-0 Delete and
Write DAC permissions to file.

C:\Windows\system32>
so if one location is:

M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project

and everything affected is in "rip project" what cmd would add my missing user self to the screenshots?

in addition, how do i keep this from happening with future rips made with EAC direct to the ext drive?

thx.

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Old 13th December 2011, 09:14   #7
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looking here:

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/window...le-folder.html

post 9 seems close to what i want, so if you look at my screenshots, does this look reasonable:

icacls M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project\* /grant Everyone:(F)

or

icacls M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project\* /grant MrSinatra:(F)

?

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Old 13th December 2011, 09:29   #8
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I would run the command box elevated (as an administrator) and use the following syntax.

icacls M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project\* /grant MrSinatra:(F,M,W)

And, as I tried to say before, I don't think you can keep this from happening if you use a user account to rip to an external drive.
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Old 13th December 2011, 20:28   #9
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The key point is to make sure that M:\AUDIO\ has the rights set for MrSinatra to have full access. Then tick the boxes for those settings to be inherited downwards.

RIGHT CLICK the M:\AUDIO\ folder.
Click on the SECURITY tab
This now shows a summary of user rights for that folder.
Click on <ADVANCED> button
Now you can change the settings.
Click the EDIT button
Now select the users you want to change the rights for.
"Everyone" would be all users. Or pick "MrSinatra" for just you.
Once you have your settings correct - IMPORTANT STEP - TICK the "Replace all existing inheritable permissions on all descendants with the inheritable permissions from this object"
OK, OK, OK all the boxes until you get back to the folder.
You should get a window pop-up applying all of the new settings.

Yes, this seems odd, but it is really just applying the same user settings that have been around since the days of NT. Due to infections and badly coded programs too much crap ended up in too many places. This is now trying to coral you to your correct locations.

Yes, it is a pain, but from experience of my job I can tell you that it is working as it is making Win7 machines much easier to clean up after infection than old promiscuous XP.


If my above steps have not been clear enough, or not worked for you, then I can break them down a bit more.
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Old 13th December 2011, 20:31   #10
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P.S. And yes - the dialog boxes are confusing, and the settings seem mad and illogical, but this is how Microsoft makes money from their courses.

Seriously - this is complicated using as these are basically the same dialog boxes that get used for complex Server User Rights settings.

(You wait until you try and then share this folder on the network... and realise the SHARING user rights is a completely different set of dialogs to get right)

I have been working in Windows Networking since the last Century. So have got used to its odd little ways.
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Old 13th December 2011, 21:36   #11
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hi guys, thx for responding,

esp you BP, as i thought i recalled you having similar expert postings on this before.

i have not yet tried anything, i want to be sure i don't make anything worse. i should point out that my two screenshots are file properties, and not folder properties.

based on what you see in those screenshots BP, what is the problem? that my specific profile is not specifically listed as an owner? is that the correct diagnosis?

if so, don't i just need to apply your fix to the folder and sub-folders/files affected? we're talking 400gigs here, most of which works properly. will your fix make the bad screenshot look like the good one?

also, why does this happen at all? the only difference is where i ripped to with EAC, either system drive, or direct to the ext drive. (typically i rip to system drive, and move it after, and have np's with that). how can i keep this from happening going forward if i want to rip direct to the ext?

sorry for my clumsy understanding of the problems here, and thx again for the help!

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Old 14th December 2011, 02:51   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
I would run the command box elevated (as an administrator) and use the following syntax.

icacls M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project\* /grant MrSinatraF,M,W)

And, as I tried to say before, I don't think you can keep this from happening if you use a user account to rip to an external drive.
in control panel, under users, MrSinatra is the ONLY user listed, and is listed as an administrator. (aside from "Guest" which is off, and other default type machine ones)

are you saying thats still not good enough? and if so, that there is no workaround?

waiting to hear from BP before i try any cmd line stuff.

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Old 14th December 2011, 08:49   #13
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Hi,

BP has more experience with this kind of stuff than me. If there is a way to prevent this going forward, he may know.

The MrSinatra account is AN administrator, but not "The Administrator", so there are still some restrictions on the account (much less than those on a user account) with UAC turned on. Maybe even with UAC turned off. The MrSinatra account is really what used to be called a super user. The true administrator account (with no restrictions) is hidden by default. This is another Windows security change not widely known.

BP is suggesting attacking the problem from the folder level. I suggested 'fixing' the files in the "rip project" folder, since you said they are the only ones affected.

Whichever way you decide to go, you will learn various ways to make mass changes. That is some comfort if this can't be prevented going forward. I agree this is a 'pain' for those who just want to use their computers to do what appears to be simple, logical, common sense type stuff.
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Old 14th December 2011, 08:53   #14
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Answering backwards because I am up far too early in the morning... the command line stuff should do the same as I am describing but with less pretty GUI to let you know what is going on. Get to grips with the GUI and you can avoid learning the command line side. (Or come back to that for advanced lessons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
hi guys, thx for responding,

esp you BP, as i thought i recalled you having similar expert postings on this before.
I have been working with these permissions since the days of yore. (Well, NT 3.51 back in the dim and distant 1990s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i have not yet tried anything, i want to be sure i don't make anything worse. i should point out that my two screenshots are file properties, and not folder properties.
Don't be scared of these dialogs. You learn more when you make mistakes. Practice on a single album first if you want to be sure of what you are doing.

Yes, you have shown file properties. But folders look the same. With the added bonus of any work you do on a folder can be propagated down the whole tree underneath it with that magic tick box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
based on what you see in those screenshots BP, what is the problem? that my specific profile is not specifically listed as an owner? is that the correct diagnosis?
There is no problem shown in your screenshots. Permissions are just inherited downwards. And you can correct that using the instructions I popped in the above post. What happened back in history was you created the M:\AUDIO\ folder and then that laid out the rules for the permissions of everything that then followed. When you correct the top most folder of M:\AUDIO\ by adding MrSinatra with "Full Control" and tick the magic tick box, it will then propagate your changes all the way down the tree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
if so, don't i just need to apply your fix to the folder and sub-folders/files affected? we're talking 400gigs here, most of which works properly. will your fix make the bad screenshot look like the good one?
You just need to apply the fix to the highest level folder and then it will propagate down for you. You will not need to do every single sub-folder as that would drive any sane person mad. (Or a mad person madder)

When you set the permissions on the highest level, you choose what you want to see there. (Generally "full control" for MrSinatra). Basically you make the folder look like your "good" screenshot. You only really need to touch the MrSinatra settings as the settings of a single user will override the group settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
also, why does this happen at all? the only difference is where i ripped to with EAC, either system drive, or direct to the ext drive. (typically i rip to system drive, and move it after, and have np's with that). how can i keep this from happening going forward if i want to rip direct to the ext?
Why does it happen? 'cos them is de rulez of the serverz set down by magic pixies at Microsoft. Reasons lost in the history of time, but backward compatibility means they don't dare change it. Server Admins who live in those dark caves of the basement need these fine tunable settings to wind up the users. Sorry - I mean to be able to keep data safe from accidental deletion, etc. To keep lusers away from vital system data or confidentiality. There have been some additions now to bring in UAC at the desktop level. (And in the Win7 world you are supposed to stick in the C:\Users\ folders to keep your life simple. With that C:\Users\Public\ being the branch setup for you to share to other people.)

Or, more importantly, when you created the higher level folder M:\AUDIO\ it set the file rights for everything below it. And you then confused things by "moving" in folders from your system drive which would have probably taken their own settings along with them.

I often see a mess where a user rips to the desktop, gets permissions of the single user on the desktop, then they move that folder to the server and wonder why the rest of the company cannot access their files. This will be because the inheritance had been turned off on that parent folder.

To keep this from happening, set the rights you want to see on M:\AUDIO\ and make sure the ticks are set for the inheritance of the rights down the tree. Also check that the location where you are ripping to has the correct rights set on the folder.

And don't try and be clever. Don't try and change the settings on your system ROOT drive or \Windows\ folder or \Progam Files\ folders. These are there for your own safety. Best to leave well alone. Just do your ripping to a C:\RIPPY\ folder with carefully managed settings. (Or to M:\AUDIO\ once you have it cleanly setup)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
sorry for my clumsy understanding of the problems here, and thx again for the help!
No worries about clumsy. This is the Black Arts of Permissions Knowledge. Hidden behind bizarre and wonderous dialog boxes. There are some pages in those dialogs that are just weird and I have never touched. I try and just fettle with the stuff I know works.

As to "ownership", you should be okay with ignoring that. As you made the files in the first place, you or the admistrator group will already be owner. You only really need to mess with "ownership" when transferring stuff from an old PC which had been in a restricted folder.

Last edited by Batter Pudding; 14th December 2011 at 10:12. Reason: Corrections of typos
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Old 14th December 2011, 09:06   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Hi,

BP has more experience with this kind of stuff than me. If there is a way to prevent this going forward, he may know.
Hammers. That is the answer. Place a hammer within view of your webcam and then your PC will learn who is boss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
The MrSinatra account is AN administrator, but not "The Administrator", so there are still some restrictions on the account (much less than those on a user account) with UAC turned on. Maybe even with UAC turned off. The true administrator account (with no restrictions) is hidden by default. This is another Windows security change not widely known.
Even though you are on a single user PC, you need to remember that these settings come from the land of Big Companies and Servers and Controlling the Lusers on the Network. So you have "groups" and "users". You stick the "users" into a "group" to be able to more quickly set their rights to a file or folder. Aminifu is right to point out that "MrSinatra" is a member of the "administrator" group. But this does not mean he has magic rights over every file on the PC. These rights have always been around since before the days of XP, just XP was a promiscous tart that allowed almost anything to happen. Blame Windows 95\Windows 98. When the NT code became XP it had to keep much of the lax security of Win9x to avoid breaking badly written programs. Now, 10 years later, security is tightened up to enforce the rules that have always been there. Too long we have put up with crap programmers who cannot be bothered to read the manuals, which has then led to a mess of settings, dll hell, registry mess, etc. (To be fair, programmers are always under pressure to get the job done and have to take short cuts. We are rarely given time to stop and read the manuals.)

UAC came in to mainly annoy the developers. It was there to made badly written programs look bad and be annoying. Example: progams should not be writing to the HKLM branch in the registry - there is a PER USER section called HKCU that you put your settings in. Ditto \Progam Files\ this is for the APPLICATION files, not user data files. You may be the only user of your PC, but the problem is the underlying system is based on a server with multiple users. And now these rules are enforced, applications like Winamp soon cleaned up their act and put the right stuff in the right place. (Winamp was an especially good example as it started life back in the DOS and FAT based days of Win9x. Now with a few tweaks it is fully compliant to the security rules. User settings in the C:\Users\ folders and the only time you see a UAC prompt is when you are changing the system-wide file associations)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
BP is suggesting attacking the problem from the folder level. I suggested 'fixing' the files in the "rip project" folder, since you said they are the only ones affected.
Fixing the folders is quicker. And the sooner you get your head around that folder permissions box you will be soon laughing. And folder or file permissions are basically the same. Just hitting the folder and letting it propagate saves time. Command lines are cool as well - but this is Windows and GUI land. The command line is you "get out of jail" card when something is really FUBAR. Or you are working from a script.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Whichever way you decide to go, you will learn various ways to make mass changes. That is some comfort if this can't be prevented going forward. I agree this is a 'pain' for those who just want to use their computers to do what appears to be simple, logical, common sense type stuff.
Learn it all for it is all good. Just take it slow, step by step. Play around with a few sub folders first. Be happy with those dialog boxes. Then be brave and hit the higher levels. And notice - I have not even mentioned the Network Shares yet as that is a different land of mysteries. Get your head around giving yourself rights first and then we will come back to the other lusers you mentioned in an earlier post.
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Old 14th December 2011, 09:34   #16
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So there are ways to get around Microsoft's OS folder structure and UAC restrictions. Good to know, thanx BP.
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Old 14th December 2011, 10:09   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
So there are ways to get around Microsoft's OS folder structure and UAC restrictions. Good to know, thanx BP.
Not so much as "get around" but to "work with it". Learning the Black Magic Arts of the Permissions Pixies is not impossible. It is just a case of learning the language. Following a few rules. Understanding why this is on your PC.

If I get time later I'll play with an external hard drive and write a more exact step by step. I know I got a bit waffly above, but there is a lot of ground to cover to include the "why" within all of this.
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Old 15th December 2011, 05:36   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
The key point is to make sure that M:\AUDIO\ has the rights set for MrSinatra to have full access. Then tick the boxes for those settings to be inherited downwards.

RIGHT CLICK the M:\AUDIO\ folder.
Click on the SECURITY tab
This now shows a summary of user rights for that folder.
Click on <ADVANCED> button
Now you can change the settings.
Click the EDIT button
Now select the users you want to change the rights for.
"Everyone" would be all users. Or pick "MrSinatra" for just you.
Once you have your settings correct - IMPORTANT STEP - TICK the "Replace all existing inheritable permissions on all descendants with the inheritable permissions from this object"
OK, OK, OK all the boxes until you get back to the folder.
You should get a window pop-up applying all of the new settings.

Yes, this seems odd, but it is really just applying the same user settings that have been around since the days of NT. Due to infections and badly coded programs too much crap ended up in too many places. This is now trying to coral you to your correct locations.

Yes, it is a pain, but from experience of my job I can tell you that it is working as it is making Win7 machines much easier to clean up after infection than old promiscuous XP.


If my above steps have not been clear enough, or not worked for you, then I can break them down a bit more.
these directions aren't working for me, here's what i do:

1. go to M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project\ and right click it to get to properties
2. click the security tab
3. i can click "edit" or "advanced" and i click "advanced" as per your direction.
4. i am now stuck, i have no idea what to do here.

i need the dummies, step by step instructions. sorry and thx.

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Old 15th December 2011, 11:15   #19
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Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
these directions aren't working for me, here's what i do:

1. go to M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project\ and right click it to get to properties
2. click the security tab
3. i can click "edit" or "advanced" and i click "advanced" as per your direction.
4. i am now stuck, i have no idea what to do here.

i need the dummies, step by step instructions. sorry and thx.
Okay.... the missing bits. I'll try a bit clearer (though still tricky without pictures). And I'll also assume that your two images show the before and after you are trying to deal with. I can also see I missed a step that would make things easier to understand.
1. go to M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project\ and right click it to get to properties
2. click the security tab

First we need to add our Missing User "MrSinatra"
3. Click <edit> to bring up a list of who can access this folder.
4. As we don't see MrSinatra, click <ADD> to navigate a weird set of pages
5. Now press <Advanced...> to open the next page
6. Now press <Find Now>
7. Finally something recognisable. Locate your username from the list.
8. Hit OK to dismiss the list of users.
9. Now you see your name written into the box, hit OK.
10. Now you are back to a screen that looks like your screenshot, but importantly you can now select the user rights for each person listed.
11. Find your newly added user "MrSinatra", highlight it, then tick "FULL CONTROL" in the Allow column of the box at the bottom half of the screen.
12. Hit OK.

13. Now you should be back at your original security dialog box showing user rights. Now we can propagate these settings down the rest of the directory tree below.

14. From the security tab, hit <ADVANCED>
15. Hit <Edit>
16. Now tick the "Replace all existing inheritable permissions on all descendants with the inheritable permissions from this object"
17. Press OK and a message box pops up asking you to confirm the action. "This will replace explicitly defined permissions on all descendants of this object with inheritable permissions from Identities.". Press <YES>. If a lot of files need changing, then you will see a box pop-up here while the changes are carried out.
18. OK OK out of all the dialog boxes and you are done.

So, in summary, first we add the missing user MrSinatra. Next we set that user's rights to the folder. Finally we make sure those changes can propagate down to the folders below.

I am doing the above from memory. I'll grab an external drive and check this through for you shortly over a cup of coffee. (I'll have it done before sun-up on your side of the pond)

Edit: I have now checked this on an external drive, and slightly tweaked the instructions to include step 17 in more details.

Last edited by Batter Pudding; 15th December 2011 at 13:55.
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Old 18th December 2011, 22:18   #20
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hey BP, sorry for my delay responding.

steps 1-14 worked perfectly.

however, you say to hit "edit" for step 15, but i don't see an "edit."

so i am stuck there. thx for sticking with me thru this.

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Old 18th December 2011, 22:45   #21
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okay... step 15 onwards.

Which OS are you running?

I am doing this mini-guide from Vista 64-bit Business. But can check on other OS's.

It is a "Permissions" page that the edit button appears on.

Can you post a screenshot of the page you are looking at that does not have the edit button.
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Old 18th December 2011, 22:46   #22
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win7ult 32bit, hold for the screenshot...

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Old 18th December 2011, 22:50   #23
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I'll boot up my laptop to check the differences. Can you see an <Add...> button instead?
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Old 18th December 2011, 22:53   #24
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http://www.mediafire.com/i/?fnq9tzh7hx7k8i8

i just don't want to take any chances, so i'm being careful...

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Old 18th December 2011, 22:55   #25
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The button you want is <Change Permissions> I will update my instructions above for you.
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Old 18th December 2011, 22:57   #26
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okay.... so I cannot edit a post that is that old. So here is the last steps for Windows 7 instead of Windows Vista. The only change is the name of a button.

13. Now you should be back at your original security dialog box showing user rights. Now we can propagate these settings down the rest of the directory tree below.

14. From the security tab, hit <ADVANCED>
15. Hit <Change Permission>
16. Now tick the "Replace all existing inheritable permissions on all descendants with the inheritable permissions from this object"
17. Press OK and a message box pops up asking you to confirm the action. "This will replace explicitly defined permissions on all descendants of this object with inheritable permissions from Identities.". Press <YES>. If a lot of files need changing, then you will see a box pop-up here while the changes are carried out.
18. OK OK out of all the dialog boxes and you are done.

So, in summary, first we add the missing user MrSinatra. Next we set that user's rights to the folder. Finally we make sure those changes can propagate down to the folders below.
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Old 18th December 2011, 22:58   #27
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ok, but please also tell me which thing to highlight to change permissions on... the step by painful tedious step direction is what i need, or i panic.

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Old 18th December 2011, 23:01   #28
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No need to highlight. What we are doing is taking the CURRENT settings of the folder and telling them to be copied downwards. So just follow my post #26 and it should now work.

I'll hang around for an hour for you to complete this, but I have to get someone on an early train tomorrow so not staying on much past Midnight GMT.
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Old 18th December 2011, 23:06   #29
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i understand, u can go when u need to, but i am running into trouble...

i did 1-14 np, so i now do this:

click advanced
click change permissions (while the first thing, admins, is highlighted)
then i get another similar screen, and it has add, edit, remove and so on.

i don't know what to do there.

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Old 18th December 2011, 23:08   #30
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ah, wait, i see the replace tick, but which thing do i highlight above? admins? or mrsinatra? (both say "not inherited" while everything else says M:\ )

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Old 18th December 2011, 23:14   #31
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ah, wait, i see the replace tick, but which thing do i highlight above? admins? or mrsinatra? (both say "not inherited" while everything else says M:\ )
You do not need to highlight anything.

Just tick the box "Replace all existing inheritable permissions on all descendants with the inheritable permissions from this object".

Just follow the instructions. Don't change anything else.

What you are doing is changing how the FOLDER behaves. So that tick will tell it to copy its settings DOWN the tree to every folder and file below it.

(Note - my steps have now been checked on Win7Pro)
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Old 18th December 2011, 23:17   #32
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ah, wait, i see the replace tick, but which thing do i highlight above? admins? or mrsinatra? (both say "not inherited" while everything else says M:\ )
Currently what the box is telling you is that some users copy their settings from the M:\ folder. This is done by "inheriting" the settings of that folder.

MrSinatra is the user you have just added, which is why it does not mention where it copied its settings from.

"inherit" means "copy from the folder above me in the file tree"
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Old 18th December 2011, 23:25   #33
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The suspense is killing me. Just tick the box - you are almost there.
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Old 18th December 2011, 23:25   #34
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awesome, it works! wasn't doubting you, just making absolutely sure i didn't mess it up.

so... is there anyway i can PREVENT this from happening? it would be very useful to me to be able to rip EAC files direct to the ext HD, and avoid the need to do all this.

thx a lot!

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Old 18th December 2011, 23:32   #35
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If you do this to the PARENT folder it will keep all of it CHILDREN folders in line. Try creating a new folder or file in M:\AUDIO\music\Trish\rip project\ folder you have just modified and see how the changes propagate each time.

When you feel happy, do M:\AUDIO\ and everything will copy down from there. Allowing all new folders and files you add to take on these settings.

We can talk in more detail as much as you want. And once happy, we can look at how "groups" work for your multiple users. And then, we can also move on to the NETWORK permissions applied to sharing.

You have done the hardest bit.
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Old 18th December 2011, 23:38   #36
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The permissions of a folder or file are set by the folder it is created in. That is what the other tick is about which allows you to turn off this inheritance. Not something you want to do here. Allowing folder rights to propagate is what makes rights easier to handle.
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Old 18th December 2011, 23:47   #37
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i'm not sure i'm following you above, but it can wait, and also while this worked on my "rip project" folder, unfortunately my other folder looks like this isn't working, and just looks "different." again, it can wait.

for now, i'll just make a new folder in my rip project folder, to rip new stuff to, and try to go from there.

thx again!

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Old 18th December 2011, 23:56   #38
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We can look at the details of the other folders in the week and I'll try better descriptions for you. M:\AUDIO\ should act the same as your rip project folder.

Maybe a few screenshots of your "different" folder so I can explain the differences.

Glad I can help. Windows Security settings are weird, but there is some logic to it. Always safer to stay with what you know first though, so we will take this in steps you can follow. Soon you will be a master of some of the Dark Arts of Windows
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Old 19th December 2011, 02:40   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
...Glad I can help. Windows Security settings are weird, but there is some logic to it. Always safer to stay with what you know first though, so we will take this in steps you can follow. Soon you will be a master of some of the Dark Arts of Windows
I don't intend on interrupting your discussion with MrSinatra (so don't feel you need to reply) except to thank you for taking the time to explain some of the "Dark Arts". This thread will be extremely useful to many people (like me) who are uninformed and a little bit intimidated by permissions and folder settings. Thanks again.

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Old 19th December 2011, 09:20   #40
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@Ryerman: I was hoping that this would help a few other people. We now have to work on a secure OS which means it helps if one knows the rules.
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