Old 14th February 2014, 18:16   #1
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Are skins lost?

Went to the main site to grab some skins and well, have you seen it yet? Looks really neat and very up-to-date with today's web design trends. But where the skins at?

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Old 14th February 2014, 18:42   #2
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it's a temp site and who knows what's going to happen with it compared to the old site functionality.
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Old 14th February 2014, 19:08   #3
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Well.. Where are the plug-ins for that matter..

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Old 14th February 2014, 19:13   #4
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the same. it was all in the same AOL system and as that was all taken down when the temp site was put up, then it's no surprise that there's nothing currently available.

that is why it's a temp site and who knows what's going to happen in relation to re-providing the skins and plug-ins which were previously up on winamp.com (isn't like it's not possible to find them via alternate sites now anyway so it's not a super critical issue).

and i'd also expect other sites to see some changes coming soon as well... again as another temp site.
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Old 14th February 2014, 19:44   #5
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So, the main question is.. Were the skins and plug-ins within the previous system part of the deal with Radionomy?

I know for sure that most skins are at DeviantArt (not all, but 80% at least) and some more may be at 1001 or the other Russian "mirror sites" out there (I should check what happened to those..), but I don't know if plug-ins are also so easy to find..

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Old 14th February 2014, 19:48   #6
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Well I know someone grabbed everything (if not most) of the plugins. Not sure what happened with that.

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Old 14th February 2014, 19:51   #7
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i believe so and based on the mess of the old sites, it was never going to be an instant "here's a new site like before" (which is insane to do anyway) and i really hope when it comes to plug-ins (assuming there will be a skins / plug-in section again) that they're not just going to blindly upload them when so many aren't compatible, etc.

just have a bit of patience, though the lack of posting / comments from other social media shows that skins and plug-ins really aren't all that commonly downloaded (as i've seen very little about any issues people are having finding what they want or just the complete lack of things on the site - is mainly from old-time users being nostalgic).
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Old 14th February 2014, 20:29   #8
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..though the lack of posting / comments from other social media shows that skins and plug-ins really aren't all that commonly downloaded (as i've seen very little about any issues people are having finding what they want or just the complete lack of things on the site - is mainly from old-time users being nostalgic).
I have that impression sometimes. Sometimes I think that what´s missing is the feedback, not the interest, people want to download these stuff but don´t want to "talk about it" ("that´s so 00s / 90s").
Still, I wonder why there were so many downloads of my skins on the old site.. (far too many more than in Devart or other sites, like thousands more)

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Old 14th February 2014, 21:35   #9
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because of scraping and who knows if the download counts were even correct (that old site was so messed around with that in the end a lot of things were purposefully disabled / left broken as it wasn't worth the effort). also downloads != installs.
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Old 14th February 2014, 22:25   #10
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Well.. you can't be more right on this one I guess..

Click image for larger version

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ID:	51008


And.. as a reminder, here comes a hint on how a little letter can make a whole difference..

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Views:	335
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ID:	51009

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Old 14th February 2014, 23:17   #11
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all of which sums up the changes which have been clearly noticed - that most users couldn't care for plug-ins and skins.

yes there is a demand still but the minimal effect of removing mine last year just shows why other people aren't making them and why I've generally lost interest (along with a lack of time). plus all of the feedback / posts saying they don't want to install a plug-in (or bother to notice they can chamge the skin) and that x, y & z has to be natively done just shows the odds the desktop client is under now and why contained apps which do it all are preferred (though that assumes features are natively added, etc).

there's still a place for such things but far less than it ever was or ever will be, which is why ideas of a skin / plug-in store basically won't work (as mrsinatra has mentioned a few times since the sale). as realistically the desktop is becoming a niche and mobile is where things are and wafa and such things should be more of a focus than the old desktop (not that most care if they still use 2.x despite all of its OS compatibility issues, vulnerabilities and tagging issues just as a starting point).
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Old 17th February 2014, 10:06   #12
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Well, I suspect that by now, most folks that use Winamp (for years in some cases) already have all the skins and plug-ins they want. I think the last time I got a plug-in from winamp.com was years ago. Most I have updated via the author's website or via a link in the forum. DrO's stuff, AjaxAMP, the Now Playing plug-in I use and so on.

Now, I did go through just about every page of skins to re-download the ones I knew were there that I might want again before the site was scheduled to go down. I just never bothered to get them again after I started using my new computer with Windows 7.

That Google trend thing is somewhat misleading. I never googled for winamp stuff because I knew where to get it.
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Old 17th February 2014, 14:20   #13
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IMHO looks like the business / working model of Winamp about skins & plugins should change or adapt to current needs, would be nice if Radionomy begin to seek feedback about it in the community, instead of run a pre-programmed plan based only on their vision of the market..

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Old 17th February 2014, 14:24   #14
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there hasn't been a business model relating to skins / plug-ins other than as a means to drive ad clicks on the old site.

and who knows what the new owner is thinking off doing (which i'm sure some people are going to get vocal about not hearing anything as if it's their right), but reliance on skins / plug-ins would be a mistake seeing as there's little innovation (or even presence) of either types and has not been that way for a long time (i got into plug-ins when they were already on the wane in 2003 which dropped off the cliff by 2007).
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Old 22nd February 2014, 23:30   #15
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DrO - just because, current interest has dropped off doesn't mean there is no interest at all. I think the lack of innovation, reliability, feature improvements, platform support (Linux, mac etc) made the continual evolution of plugin development and skin creation a problem; without a good base to drive the evolution, why bother with extending, creating or bring new work in.

When there are changes, updates, fixes and features being added continuously there are more users as a result of additional exposure and likewise more people interested in extending current functionality and then backwards into the application.

My thoughts anyway...

There are many examples of a thriving customization ecosystem over @ deviantART but, not for products that fail to extend themselves, add features, or provide multiple platforms that they drive towards).


Further
One of the biggest problems with Winamp current for skinners (to me); is the sheer complexity required in order to create a freeform modelled skin. This drives skinners/content creators away; this needs to be fixed. Plugin development likewise has similar problems...to create one you need to be able to program an application etc etc.

The right thing to do is to apply lean models and universal system for both plugins and skins. A simple yet complex approach to providing ease of use first; extend the base to any/every platform possible (Linux, iOS, WinPhone, Windows (all), android etc); built out a feature blog that showcases new features, services etc that are being developed, have been developed, will be developed. Setup on site knowledge base (not wiki); for using the app, the development model, the skin model (system) and showcase the API for the app. Stop hiding in the dark and expose all the future in a way that inspires your users to sell the app for you as it once was...

etc etc etc

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Old 23rd February 2014, 16:48   #16
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pretty much all of that comes down to management decisions. and i'm not disagreeing that there is still some interest, but realistically we've seen the golden days of skins and plug-ins and having seen a lot of user feedback that the forums never see, the vast majority of them don't want to install other things (be that skins or plug-ins). yes we don't know what the silent majority views are but based on the anonymous stats and other metrics, skins and plug-ins are downloaded and installed massively below the level of even a few years ago.

as for changing how skins and plug-ins are done. sure it should all be re-done in a nice way that doesn't have any of the legacy constraints and could just a scripted aspect, but seeing as that's what Modern skins were based on, your request is effectively requiring a complete re-start and who knows how long that would take and would it even be worth it financially?

whatever side you come from things (as it can be discussed / argued about forever ad nausea), there's a lot of deficiencies in things and there's other good things, and if anything will or will not be done will just have to be seen in what comes in the coming year or more.

as i would love to see things thriving like they used to, but things changed in how people use things and plug-ins / skinning is seen more of a bad thing now compared to 15years ago and if that's right or not, who can say, but it's just how current tech has seemingly gone. like i'd prefer to see the Winamp desktop client be able to run 'unskinned' (obviously as an option).
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Old 23rd February 2014, 18:52   #17
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Just a tiny grain to the panorama: Looks like "skins" particularly are something quite attached to music listeners (compared to video watchers, offimatic users, etc..)

Don't know exactly why, but besides desktop players -which most are skinnable-, most Android* players are skinnable nowadays (PowerAmp, Player Pro, Apollo, n7Player, Rocket MP, etc).
Conversely, among the few players that aren't you have Google play and.... Winamp.. =/

* I point Android because it' s the mobile platform Winamp is in right now and because it's the most integrated with Windows.

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Old 23rd February 2014, 19:05   #18
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though skinning always seems to come last on those i.e. once everything else is sorted out.

i'm not knocking that skins (as you two are primarily focused on) still have their place, but i'm basing my comments on what was seen with the desktop from the anonymous stats and for that, people providing those stats just care a lot less about changing the skin from the default.
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Old 23rd February 2014, 19:06   #19
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I've been pondering this for a while and then it dawned on me recently exactly when skinning died.... For me at any rate, 16th May 2004.....

What's significant about that date ? For me it's the last recorded bit of "fan mail" I received, up to that point for the five or six years previously fan mail would flow on a fairly regular basis, saying how cool my skins were, how can I do a modern skin, where did you get that image from etc etc... And then it went quiet, I didn't really notice at first, but about a year or two later it dawned that my hotmail account had been very very quiet ..

Personally for me it probably conked out not long after, I'd long since given up being bothered what my Winamp looked like, mainly because it spent so much time just sat in the sys tray rather than hogging screen estate you know, I had other things to be looking at, porn, games, spreadsheets , I didn't need some big ass skin covering my screen as well..

Sure I carried on making them, I enjoyed it , it was a fun way to pass the time, I still have at least two projects that could do to be finished one day, but starting something from scratch ? Nah, for two years I barely used Winamp, my tech needs had moved on, I'd gone iPad and rarely used a PC, and if I did it was for sending stuff to my iPad, so itunes became the default player, ironically my newly upgraded work laptop that I use has had security beefed up so I can no longer install itunes, I'm using a portable version of Winamp as my primary PC audio player.. Skin of choice ? Bento, again, it sits in the background most of the time, only tend to see it when changing albums and then it's back into the shadows with it.

It'll never be 1999 again, even if the skin engine was written from the ground up to make it so simple anyone could do it, people simply have better things to sink their time into than worrying about what Winamp might look like..

Although....! I do hope the old skin database comes back in some form or other, I'm pretty sure I had skins on there that were fairly unique that I no longer have copies of, prob could find them if I hunt hard enough, but frankly, can't be arsed, bigger fish to fry !
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Old 26th February 2014, 14:42   #20
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I wish I had gone through and saved a PDF or something of all the ratings and comments on my skin pages here, just for my own ego Even if the last comments on most of them were no later than 2009. I'm not so worried about making or getting new skins, just preserving the history that was there. I was foolish not to save a copy while I had a chance.

On the flip side, I would love to be able to skin Winamp on Android like you wouldn't believe.


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Old 26th February 2014, 15:09   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuigiHann View Post
I wish I had gone through and saved a PDF or something of all the ratings and comments on my skin pages here, just for my own ego Even if the last comments on most of them were no later than 2009. I'm not so worried about making or getting new skins, just preserving the history that was there. I was foolish not to save a copy while I had a chance.

On the flip side, I would love to be able to skin Winamp on Android like you wouldn't believe.
Well.. you still have http://uploadgeneration.info/Winamp/...com/skins.html (which is pretty useless without the search engine..).


About your last part, I couldn't agree more.. and dreaming a little more on it.. I think some sort of freeform skinning on Android would be revolutionary (like Winamp3/5 was to the skinning world back in 200x). It's highly unlikely I know.. but you never know, having Android that label of "the most customizable mobile system" could help in some way..

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Old 26th February 2014, 15:36   #22
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there's a lot of things with WAFA that should and must be fixed before even looking at providing some sort of skinned ui. though i'd much prefer WAFA being more like the rest of the look of Android than something that's dis-jointed, much like it already is especially from being based in the 2.x days compared to the more common 4.x styling that is now more in use. but everyone has their own thing
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Old 26th February 2014, 15:38   #23
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I would love to be able to skin Winamp on Android like you wouldn't believe.
This, I wanted this the moment I downloaded the app.

As for when skinning died for me? I'd say 2011, up until then I had free time. Lot's of free time.

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Old 3rd March 2014, 01:12   #24
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Skinners are sensitive lately.. is funny how most of us read the title and thought about "skinning act" instead of "skins on the old web"...

[sarcasm] Just to be clear.. SKINNERS ARE NOT LOST!... AND SKINS NEITHER! [/sarcasm]

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Old 16th March 2014, 04:32   #25
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Never died for me...

I still skin everyday...though, not always for the benefit of others. Sometimes, I skin Winamp too.

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Old 25th March 2014, 14:57   #26
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuigiHann
I would love to be able to skin Winamp on Android like you wouldn't believe.

This, I wanted this the moment I downloaded the app.
I think skinning in Winamp (the player that changed completely the skinning world..) should be something like this:

Click image for larger version

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ID:	51070 Click image for larger version

Name:	skin_android02.jpg
Views:	266
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ID:	51071 Click image for larger version

Name:	skin_android03.jpg
Views:	240
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ID:	51072


(Impossible? Dreaming is free.. )

EDIT: Mockups credits; 01 Cosmo UI by Yan Flahorn / 02 Ebonite / 03 Drone

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Old 1st May 2014, 04:56   #27
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130206...p.com/plugins/ Just for example. I'm gonna see what downloads and works.

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Old 3rd June 2014, 02:03   #28
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I'd love to be able to skin for:
Winamp For Android
Winamp For Linux
Winamp For Apple
Winamp For IOS

Event Better, I'd like to skin once and publish to all! w00t. And for the record...I do not use Winamp anymore; It doesn't play music from my subscribed music service. Therefore it hasn't played a tune other than repeating Lama Whips Ass for the last 4/5 years. While it catalogs and creates a playlist for my music it actually won't play them. It forces me to use the software I got them from (xBox Music - formerly Zune Software).

And 1001Skins sees around 80k+/- users nowadays...and I will likely at some point archive it permanently; and just keep a repo somewhere of all the skins. As it costs to much for the server and hosting of such a large amount of skins. Though, I'm very proud of converting it to C# and standard SQL.

~

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Old 3rd June 2014, 02:21   #29
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.. for the record...I do not use Winamp anymore; It doesn't play music from my subscribed music service.


Quote:
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...will likely at some point archive it permanently; and just keep a repo somewhere of all the skins. As it costs to much for the server and hosting of such a large amount of skins. Though, I'm very proud of converting it to C# and standard SQL.
Wow.. day of confessions??? 2 bombs in the same sentence.. keep it down, you'll blow the forums!

Sad to hear about the 1001.. this year we'll have 2 winamp's sites down in a row?? (maybe 3 if you count the original winamp.com....)

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Old 3rd June 2014, 02:29   #30
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Well my financial status is okay...and the server isn't that expensive. However, it is a cost that is bring very little return. I silently added the donate button to see if anyone would take...so, I could get rid of any ads...but, even the revenue from that is very low (cents).

I'm still up in the air for 1001skins. Max warned me that the usage was on the low side since 2001. We will see.

Though, a lot of users and many downloads, visits etc. Just a whole lot less than when I started.

Don't get me wrong...on the Winamp usage...I prefer Winamp. I want to use Winamp. I want to have my music played from Winamp. As of this moment...Winamp cannot read Windows Media Pro + DRM protected content. So, I use xBox Music Player (overall an iTunes clone) blech....

But, it plays well, and I can stream unlimited music, video for $9 USD. On up to 5 Devices. ~

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Old 3rd June 2014, 02:46   #31
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.. However, it is a cost that is bring very little return. I silently added the donate button to see if anyone would take...so, I could get rid of any ads...but, even the revenue from that is very low (cents).

I'm still up in the air for 1001skins. Max warned me that the usage was on the low side since 2001. We will see.

Though, a lot of users and many downloads, visits etc. Just a whole lot less than when I started..

Seems like it's not the right moment for these kind of sites.. when a new version of Winamp is up maybe traffic / feedback / interest would be a bit better.. but right now, between people who still thinks Winamp went off and the hiatus on the releases, feels like we are on dead air until further notice..

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Old 3rd June 2014, 22:37   #32
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Well my financial status is okay...and the server isn't that expensive. However, it is a cost that is bring very little return. I silently added the donate button to see if anyone would take...so, I could get rid of any ads...but, even the revenue from that is very low (cents).
I know that feeling, only got a few donations for Backup Tool over the years and zero donations for Info Tool, but most annoying is, that there are only two people who give feedback in the forums.

I can feel your frustration, though, if the last few guys (like you) loose their motivation as well, then anything related to Winamp will be really dead someday.

I'm using and enjoying your website, yeah, that isn't worth much, but better than nothing.

So let's cross our fingers, that Victhor is right, maybe Winamp will be more interesting for people again, if a newer version was released.
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Old 4th June 2014, 00:46   #33
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I took over in 2011; so I have been waiting and hoping for something to change. In all that time... the single best news I've witnessed is the purchase by radiology. At least it is music/content first for them... which puts Winamp back where it should be.

But, patience will eventually run out for the remaining die hards eventually...


Of Note: I've been eye'ing Aimp as of late...that player is really doing great and its skinning model is better than it used to be. ~

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Old 4th June 2014, 15:49   #34
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I haven't had time to even dedicate my self to any of my current WIP's. It's becoming quite frustrating, It's been a while since I've had the drive to push out a skin and I just can't! End of the day I never have time to do anything except fall asleep.

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Old 4th June 2014, 16:25   #35
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The key is finding time off at work (IF you work a lot in a computer and/or in an office)

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Old 5th June 2014, 02:28   #36
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Originally Posted by Victhor View Post
The key is finding time off at work (IF you work a lot in a computer and/or in an office)
Nope. :P Outside, all day and a bit of the night.

SEX APPEAL UP IN HERE!
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Old 5th June 2014, 06:26   #37
Sabine Klare
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Until the Eighties / Nineties the most people had well-paid-jobs without overtime. In the times of today the most people have badly paid jobs with overtime, and they don't have enough free time anymore. In the most jobs listening to music isn't allowed. It affects not only the Winamp Skinners, Preset Authors and Plugin Developers, also the musicians and other artists. I think, this situation is currently happening in many countries.

But also I myself hope, that the times will become better again, and that the Winamp Skinners, Preset Authors and Plugin Developers will come back. I think, they are needed also for the future. We shouldn't give up our hope.

Fortunately Winamp didn't have been shut down. I don't know yet, how the future versions of Winamp will look, but I hope, also the future versions will be skinnable, not only the current version and the older versions. No other media player is so skinnable and has so many features.

I am so sorry for You, Mike. All the best for You...

Sabine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine
Music, Art, Lyrics, Videos
AMBIENT... AMBIENT music forever...
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:59   #38
corwwin
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Hi everyone

I skinned Winamp in the golden days of the mid '00, but most of the skinners have been discouraged by the lack of interest of AOL for skinning art. ie, I could never find a comprehensive documentation about the specific xml functions and variables, and maki is like old egyptian for many people.
However, I've had big time while discovering the skinning art and developing my own skins, but, as most of the skin masters of the great era, I have now other interests, mainly because, after having made 6 or 7 skins, there's nothing left to discover about skinning.
Keep in mind, too, that the beauty of the thing is that skinning is totally useless. Beautiful, but becoming boring after a couple of years.
I hate the standard Bento and I use one of my own skins but, as Mr Jones said, now I don't care very much what Winamps looks like.
Everything is born, lives, rises and dies or sinks into oblivion, as the skinning art has done. No regrets, we've had lot of fun.

Have a nice day
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Old 10th June 2014, 22:59   #39
garetjax
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As I have been thinking about this awhile; I have these feelings/opinions:

1. Update Application
2. Update the engine
3. Provide Solutions for iOS, Android, and WinOS (phone)
4. Provide Skin availability for (aforementioned systems)
5. Provide Web Enabled Streaming Component (compiled source stream ie dll etc - call it Winamp for web-server)

Then skinning will re-emerge as a featured destination, bring back into light the application and draw yet more users back to the fold.

My thoughts anyways...

1001skins |
That's not a skin, it's some god awful piece of skinner gunk. - Mr. Jones
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Old 11th June 2014, 08:55   #40
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We are the Winamp Skin Lovers (and the Winamp Skinners). After the "Resurrection of Winamp" the "Resurrection of the Winamp Skins" could happen some day. At least we should be optimistic...

I am remembering my "Resurrection Live Show" on Mixlr (January 2014), before Mixlr had removed the SoundCloud Playlist (April 2014) and introduced the new Pricing Plan (May 2014). My "Special" was for Winamp, after Winamp had been sold to Radionomy...
https://soundcloud.com/ov3rblast/set...m-the-fog-o-ep

Light will come into the Darkness...

Sabine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine
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AMBIENT... AMBIENT music forever...
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