Old 16th March 2012, 08:16   #1
mike-db
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Need some opinions

So in my hunt for a newer PC, I decided to see what fresh out of the box PC's are available on the market...

As much as I hate dell, they seem to have teamed up with Alienware. The PC I find in the wake of such news is the Alienware X51 Desktop. http://www.dell.com/ca/p/alienware-x51/pd

Intel® Core i3-2120 processor (3MB Cache, 3.3GHz with Hyper-Threading Technology)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Up to 6GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333Mhz - 2 DIMMS
Up to 1000GB SATA hard drive (7200RPM)
Slot-Loading Dual Layer DVD Burner (DVD+-RW, CD-RW) Or
Slot-Loading Dual Layer Blu-ray Reader (BR-ROM, DVD+-RW, CD-RW)
1GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 545
DW1502 Wireless-N WLAN Half Mini-Card
Internal High-Definition 7.1 Performance Audio with WAVES MAXX Audio
Alienware 240W PSU Or Alienware 330 Watt PSU


Plus a good amount of ports for all sorts of goodies (HDMI Output takes my eye) all in all sounds like an alright machine... For a Micro ATX that is.

For the price of $712 it's not too bad. I might even order one, though as I'm sure some of you know I'm not that knowledgeable in this area... And I've always made sure to spread my hate of dell for good reason...

You think this PC would be as big of a let down as every other dell I've worked with? From what I know because it's a Micro ATX that limits me for upgrades, than add on the need for Dell to limit their PC's even more.... You can see why I ask for an opinion.
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Old 16th March 2012, 08:35   #2
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I think you should look at HP. Everybody I know says pretty good things about those. w/ a 250 watt power supply, this couldn't be much of a gamer. My video card draws 120w all by itself.

I think you are paying a lot for the looks of this machine. All show... kind of light on the go part.

8 core Phenom II's are pretty cheap. You might consider that.

Past that, it looks like an ok machine. It's nice looking. The price seems more or less ok for what it is.

I couldn't find out what the graphics on this is, but you want to avoid Intel video. Get something w/nvidia or ATI graphics.
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Old 16th March 2012, 08:47   #3
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I guess I should mention that my budget is about $800. I cannot afford to spend any more than that.
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Old 17th March 2012, 02:34   #4
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You're paying for the name and aesthetics. You can far surpass these specs with a regular Dell inspiron desktop tower, especially if you don't need a new monitor.

You could easily step into a standard ATX case, jucier PSU, i5, 6GB RAM, and a very capable video card on your budget if you build a regular inspiron.

Build online, save to kart, and then start haggling over the phone. You'll be surprised what you can do with a little hustling.

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Old 17th March 2012, 20:42   #5
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www.ibuypower.com

keep these guys at an arm's length. Only purchase from them if they have cleaned up their act. Check the bbb or any similar business bureau you have in Canada.
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Old 18th March 2012, 03:24   #6
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There are a bunch of HP's in that price range. Better made, and with Radeon graphics.

I'd want a slot that will handle a full height video card. You might not find that in the mini-pc styles.

HP > Dell .... you might give $50 more for an HP. Just looking at them, you see the quality difference. Dell usually chimps out to meet a price.

The web says Asus machines are really good to look at too. Very high customer satisfaction. Almost as good as Apple.
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Old 18th March 2012, 03:33   #7
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Just to be an ass.

Depending upon your use: Mac mini?

There are more than pcs out there for sub $800...
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Old 18th March 2012, 07:41   #8
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There are a lot of machines out there for <$1000. Probably more than there are > $1000. You could build something pretty formidable for $1000-$1200. I like to build because usually you get better parts than a manufacturer is gonna use. You don't spend an hour removing bundled shit. That's nice too.

You can buy a reasonable desktop computer, but if you really wanted a gaming machine, I think you are still better off building it.

I think AMD wins currently on bang for the buck. 1090T Phenom II X6 3.4 Ghz is $200. Intel can't touch that.
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Old 18th March 2012, 15:42   #9
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Building is great, but only if you want a high end machine. The bottom line cost is very high when trying to build. Having a budget of $800 will probably yield a better machine if you stick with pre-built.

Indeed Asus makes great motherboards and other hardware. Newegg is a good place to shop if you're looking for Asus computers.

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Old 18th March 2012, 16:21   #10
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mike-db, what are you actually going to be doing with the PC?

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
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Old 18th March 2012, 17:10   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_rock923 View Post
mike-db, what are you actually going to be doing with the PC?
^Finally someone decides to actually ask what should have been asked initially!

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Old 18th March 2012, 18:28   #12
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Bought the same I do now. Play games, make winamp skins, watch porn. That order too.

So Apple is basically out of the question, I don't need to have a micro ATX. But the one I first posted is the first Micro ATX I've ever seen that's geared towards gaming.

EDIT/ Wont be hardcore gaming, probably countless hours of minecraft... So being able to handle MC at about 60-80 fps in fullscreen without disabling Direct 3D and what not just to make it run is basically the main goal... I figured I could get a decent PC that can handle that for under $800.

Building is a nice idea and I will build some day, but my pockets aren't too deep.
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Old 18th March 2012, 19:27   #13
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Minecraft will play on my wimpy laptop.

Quote:
The bottom line cost is very high when trying to build
Here's a kit for $835 that would kick the shit out of the factory built machine. Unlike the factory machine, it would play anything currently available.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.862842

You would need to add Windows........ you probably need a tube of Arctic Silver...

But you get the idea....

The above machine would annihilate the Dell box you were looking at.

I'd agree with Ted mostly about building a machine, but I will say none of my home brew machines has ever died. Ever. Dirty DVD drives make me buy one of those every couple years, but "knock on wood", none of my home brews has ever had a catastrophic failure.

On the other hand, I've never had a factory machine (except for my current Acer laptop) that hasn't ended up in the shop in a couple years.

Manufacturers build machines to last until they get out of the warranty period. I build machines to last 5 years. I have my last 3. They are up to 12 years old and still work fine. The last home brew is an Athlon 3800 X2. After 7 years, the last 4 years of it being used as a PVR..... that's running 100% cpu encoding TV and 100% hard disk on for 4 years.... I think the 500GB Western Digital in there might be ready to fail.

I'm not sure you save anything buying factory machines, at least not in the long run.
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Old 18th March 2012, 20:05   #14
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He'll need a processor, optical, PSU, plus the RAM has to fit the MoBo. Might want a card reader, kybd, and mouse too, but I'm not sure if he's shopping for those.

@op - do you need a monitor, card reader, mouse, kybd, printer, tv card, web cam, or anything else? Any parts you're planning on keeping from the previous box?

These days I'd recommend 6GB RAM to avoid having to use the HDD for virtual RAM.

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Old 18th March 2012, 20:09   #15
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You should probably have 8GB and also for dual channel memory symmetry. 16 is useful because you can use RAM for your swap space.

4 will certainly do, but memory is cheap.

I recommend Microsofts keyboard/optical mouse bundle (about $30).

Monitors. You'd have a hard time beating these at the price. I bought 2.

http://iguanamicro.com/asvh24wilcdm.html

Best monitors I ever had. You should check LED backlit monitors.... very easy on the eyes.

I like 4 feet of work area
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Old 18th March 2012, 20:15   #16
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PC accessories (monitor, keyboard, etc) are not what I'm looking for just a machine.
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Old 18th March 2012, 20:17   #17
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Build one, buy one. You probably can't go too far wrong. Really though, if all you wanted to do was play minecraft, you could probably find a $300 box that would do that.
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Old 18th March 2012, 20:37   #18
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Well I know for a fact that yes being able to actually support that game would be great but I'll be moving on to other things so I'm in it for the long haul. My dell has lasted me longer than it naturally should have.
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Old 18th March 2012, 22:26   #19
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Looking carefully at the specs..... If you wanted a small PC form factor and halfway reasonable graphics you could probably do worse than what you picked out. It's not gonna be killer at video games, but I'd expect it to play about anything... perhaps not on super-duper graphics modes, but well good enough to play.

I was looking around at the alternatives... and yeah... it's a pretty sweet little box. Especially if you really wanted a small form factor. I would consider it's graphics a compromise.. nothing like this is gonna have a 200 watt video card.

You probably won't be able to add anything much more powerful without changing the power supply...

Something like this is what it is. You won't be doing hardware upgrades. That might be good.

You probably could buy a PC for $200 less in a normal form factor. You have to decide if that's important.
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Old 26th March 2012, 22:38   #20
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Well this is my first time ever picking out parts for a build... So I'm not even sure if I have picked properly..

But here is what I'm planning on:
AMD A6-3650
ASUS F1A55-M LX
Mushkin Enhanced Essentials 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3
LG 22X Super-Multi DVD Burner
APEX ATX Mid Tower Case

HDD, OS, and other things will be salvaged from the old Dell, if the OS cannot be swapped over than I believe I have an extra copy of XP around here somewhere. Still not sure what else I'll need to buy.

Currently after shipping the build comes out to around $350, budget price had to be lowered due to some unexpected bills.

The rest of needed parts I'll probably buy from my local ma and pa PC shop. What do you guys think?
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Old 27th March 2012, 02:47   #21
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I'd still recommend more RAM. With 2 slots, try for 2 4-gig sticks if you can afford them. Since there's only 2 slots, you'll need to buy now if you ever plan on getting more; otherwise if you ever want to upgrade, you lose the original RAM sticks.

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Old 27th March 2012, 02:52   #22
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ahh, alert! alert!

If you plan on using an old hard drive, please make sure it's a SATA hard drive and not a PATA (a.k.a. IDE) hard drive. I don't see any PATA connections on the motherboard.

Also make sure your power supply has the correct connections for the motherboard and especially the newer optical (DVD) drive, which uses a SATA style (non-molex) power connection.

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Old 27th March 2012, 03:06   #23
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Yep, the old HDD does have SATA connections the new PSU seems to come with all the required connections.

1 x Main connector (20+4Pin) the Mobo stats state that it needs a 24 pin so I'm guessing this is right on the money.

What I'm wondering is if it would be better to just push up and buy a more expensive case that comes with a PSU.
(http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811147081)
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Old 27th March 2012, 03:58   #24
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Decided to bump up the RAM and decided against getting a CD/DVD Drive, I've got extra.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820313086 < RAM.

I'm also thinking that I should just go ahead and get my self a Heat sink/CPU Cooler, though I'm not really sure if I should bother or not I figure it's a safe way to go and that I'll probably not cheap out on it.

Though I might also just go ahead and buy one from the local PC Store.
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Old 27th March 2012, 04:19   #25
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I love the company most of the time, but Newegg shipping sometimes can be bullshit. Your case and RAM have the same shipping price despite having massively different sizes and weights. Always be sure to check competitors for the best bottom line price (after any kind of tax/shipping). Sometimes a phone call for the purposes of haggling about shipping costs can solve the problem if you don't mind giving it a try.

You make a good point about the CPU cooler; that processor doesn't include one, so you'll need one along with some thermal paste (unless the cooler includes it) before you turn on the machine.

A lot of people frown on Rosewill because it seems to be a budget brand, but I regularly use a camera card reader (several times a week from a couple types of camera cards) from them on my tower with no problems over the last 4 years. You won't get complaints from me about Rosewill because of that.

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Old 27th March 2012, 04:33   #26
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Budget brand speaks volumes to me. Shipping in total for this whole package seems to be $12 plus the $25 in taxes of course.... God damned HST.

With the CPU cooler I'm not even sure which one I should buy this rosewill one seems like a decent buy though I remember fucking with coolers in other peoples machines... And it seems to be more about what type of mobo I have... So I really have no idea if this will "Clip on" to the mobo... Or should I just worry about having some really good sticky gunk? (thermal paste)

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16835200014

EDIT/ Seems that Rosewill Thermal paste just is not the way to go, I saw more negative reviews than positive... Most of em saying to turn around and buy arctic silver instead.
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Old 27th March 2012, 05:06   #27
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It *might* work. Those RAM slots are close on the MoBo to the CPU socket, but it's hard for me to tell if they're close enough for the RAM sticks to run into a wide CPU cooler. Looking at the pictures, it looks like it should fit, but again, I'm not sure.

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Old 27th March 2012, 06:51   #28
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At 92 x 92 x 25mm I think it'll work. Seeing as the other "suggested" ones are much larger.

Orrr I could pay an extra $10 and just buy the whole box set with cpu cooler included, comes pre greased too.

EDIT/ From what I can tell, if I were to get this APU: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819103955 I'd still get the performance that I'm looking for and shave a few dollars off my bill.

Last edited by mike-db; 27th March 2012 at 09:09.
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Old 27th March 2012, 09:58   #29
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Well looks likes this build has been finalized. Unless I can find something else to sweeten up the deal I think I'm solid.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:00   #30
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AMD Athlon II X4 631 2.6GHz - You might want to look at the 631. It's $75 and looks comparable.

I looked at Passmarks benchmark page on "bang for the buck". This was high on the list.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:20   #31
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Hmm, I would but I don't feel like purchasing from multiple online vendors. :P I can just see it being a hassle.

It also looks like I'll have to purchase Win 7 for the fact that my win XP that was supplied with my dell will not be able to be used with any other PC. Though I've never tried.

I also have to keep in mind that the budget does not have much for squeeze room. Because of the fact that the A4-3400 was able to cut $25 off of the original processor price I've been able to throw in other things like the 8GB of ram. Anything that comes of this build is certain to be 100% better than what I'm running. It's win-win.
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Old 27th March 2012, 13:52   #32
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I am interested in this machine. I hope you'll tell us what you think when you get done. I don't know anything about this FM1 socket stuff. It has to be better than the usual motherboard graphics.

I was looking at hard drives. I guess the flooding in Thailand wiped out a lot of hard drive factories. None of those 1TB $80 drives around as near as I can tell.... like when I built my last system... Yeah... you might want to wait and buy yourself a Christmas present.....

Hard drives are gonna be expensive for several months I guess. Memory is so cheap, you might want to think about 16GB of RAM. It's sweet. I use 4GB for a ramdisk that is the "swap" that would usually be a mechanical drive. It's nice not to hear the hard disks rattle if nothing else. You don't bother closing anything. I just leave video games running to do other things. Never running out of memory is cool.
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:14   #33
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Well all in all I'm quite happy with the mobo I have picked out. Leaves room for future upgrades. I hope to eventually cap out at 32 GB of ram *some day*.

And yeah I remember when 1 TB was around $80 or so I think there are still a few stores around my area with some cheap TB drives.
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:18   #34
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You wouldn't need that yet. You do want 8 though. 16 would probably be a little overkill, but it's nice. I don't know what I'd do with 32.... maybe a server or running a bunch of virtual machines or something.

4 will get you by... but it was really kinda pissing me off. Putting the swap space in RAM. That's cool.
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:37   #35
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what are you use for making the ramdisk?

-daz
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:58   #36
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Oh and no worries I'll be letting you guys know about it every step of the way... Especially when I fuck up.

EDIT/ After a bit more research it seems that I can shave off an extra $120 off the bill. There is in fact a legal work around for the use of a Dell Reinstall disk... XP is back on the table.

Last edited by mike-db; 27th March 2012 at 16:48.
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Old 27th March 2012, 19:18   #37
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Success! Just knocked a few more dollars off the total bill. Ma and Pa shop has an "older" mid tower case that'll work perfectly with the mobo complete with a 450W PSU. They had forgotten about it till I called. I get it free, $25 in gas and shes mine.

Build Total: $258.46 CAD Taxes, gas, and shipping included
EDIT/ Ordered!
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Old 27th March 2012, 19:44   #38
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dunno if it is just me but it seems a bit wrong running XP on that especially with the improved core handling on Win7 and i know this is being done on a budget, etc but each to their own

-daz
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Old 27th March 2012, 19:51   #39
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True, but I still don't feel right about paying more than $90 for an OS. I'll make the leap some day, but till then XP is what I've got.

I was also able to snag a legit copy of XP from my dad.

Now it's the waiting game.
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Old 27th March 2012, 21:07   #40
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i fully understand the price aspect being an issue, was just putting that thought out there. either way hopefully it'll do what you want it to do when you get all the bits

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