Old 3rd June 2003, 11:41   #1
baafie
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bin hero

Hello.

Since asking individual moderators doesn't get me answers, I'm starting a new thread to ask this question:

Why is Binary Hero still banned?
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Old 3rd June 2003, 11:45   #2
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/me moons baaf
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Old 3rd June 2003, 11:49   #3
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Wow. An eloquent and succinct response from the mod team there :|

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Old 3rd June 2003, 11:58   #4
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Originally posted by AngelPHiSH
Wow. An eloquent and succinct response from the mod team there :|
The fact is I'm not paid for this, therefore I provide slighly less good replies.
It's all on purpose.
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Old 3rd June 2003, 11:59   #5
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You mean you're doing a poor job because you're not getting paid?

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Old 3rd June 2003, 12:09   #6
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Old 3rd June 2003, 12:11   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twilightseer
The fact is I'm not paid for this, therefore I provide slighly less good replies.
It's all on purpose.
*insert some witty response here*

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Old 3rd June 2003, 12:11   #8
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baafie, you've read bh's posting yesterday and that's exactly what he did - so I think it's reason enough to ban him ...


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Old 3rd June 2003, 12:20   #9
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What happens if I break the rules?
At best your post will be edited by one of the moderators and you will be issued a warning. If the offence is more serious your post will be deleted. Posting "why was my post edited/deleted?" etc. will only make matters worse so please don't.

Should you have already been issued warnings and continue to break the rules, you will be issued a temporary ban - your posting privileges will be disabled for seven days, but you will still be able to view the forums as a guest.

For persistent and or deliberate rule-breakers your account will be "Nuked". That means you are no longer welcome on these forums and your account will no longer function. If you re-register, your new account will be nuked immediately and any new threads/posts will automatically be removed, regardless of their nature

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Old 3rd June 2003, 13:50   #10
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this is binary_hero here, borrowing angelphish's account, i just felt i needed to reply to will:

i NEVER got a warning, of any sort, my account was banned, i was given no reason at all (i kinda figured it was because i had flamed jon joy). other than a small amount of flaming I DID NOTHING WRONG. i did NOT hack the forums, as i have said before, i am not capable of doing such a thing. yes, i did post at the ****** forums saying i had, but then so did neko and someone else. now, the mods chose to believe this (why, i do not know, there is no ip evidence at all, in either the vbulletin logs or the server logs, in fact the evidence points towards neko). yet i was banned.

the worst part of this all is the fact that someone posted at skin reviewer backstage saying that i was a liar and a hacker, when i am neither. being called a liar and a generally evil person in front of people you really respect is not a nice thing.

and i still haven't actually been told why i was banned formally, i learnt it from some threads that were leaked from backstage, but nobody has even asked me if i did it, or what i knew about the situation. the mods looked at a deeply sarcastic thread, with a group of people admitting to hacking the forums, and jumped to the wrong conclusion. thanks for that.

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Old 3rd June 2003, 14:17   #11
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I think it was because there were getting too many lefties on the forums and more people would care if I was banned .

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Old 3rd June 2003, 14:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by cyana
baafie, you've read bh's posting yesterday and that's exactly what he did - so I think it's reason enough to ban him ...
Obviously, that post was a truckload of sarcasm. Do you really believe that someone who has made so many intelligent and interesting threads in the past, will suddenly act like an asshat? Of course not.

Quote:
Originally posted by will
What happens if I break the rules ...
At best your post will be edited by one of the moderators and you will ..

etc yadayada..
Which rule did he break?
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Old 3rd June 2003, 14:57   #13
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what post yesterday?
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Old 3rd June 2003, 14:58   #14
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http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=137538
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Old 3rd June 2003, 15:08   #15
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Using an another account when you're banned is Ban Evasion.
Sarcasm or not, it's still persistant and deliberate rule-breaking. Regardless of prior circumstances, there are ways to get in touch with "the right people" to request unbanning and then there's posting a sarcastic thread in the public forums. Admin knows who was banned and why, and no moderator is going to reverse the decision and they shouldn't have to explain why over and over. We answer to admin, you answer to admin. BH, mail steve@nullsoft.com if you have further issues. Everyone else, I'll leave the thread open to discussion, but try to be cool .

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edited (@nullsoft.com, not winamp.com)

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Old 3rd June 2003, 15:11   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by baafie
Obviously, that post was a truckload of sarcasm. Do you really believe that someone who has made so many intelligent and interesting threads in the past, will suddenly act like an asshat? Of course not.
dunno, why not ? I was informed in the backstage what happened and I have no reason to believe that they were wrong. Sarcasm or not, it parroted the things bh is accused or had claimed he had done, and I wanted to avoid to write them down again, that's the reason why I referred to the posting, wether it was bh's or not.


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Old 3rd June 2003, 15:18   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gonzotek
BH, mail steve@nullsoft.com if you have further issues.
Binary Hero claims to have emailed steve, but did not receive a response.
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Old 3rd June 2003, 15:24   #18
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If that's Steve's decision, what can we do? Perhaps the lack of response is a hint. Or, (and more likely really) he just didn't get it....Nullsoft's mail server(s) have rejected many of my mails from various addresses (free email esp.) through the years. But trust me on this, Steve's aware...very aware. Just the same, I'll pass along this thread url, but I can't promise he'll get the results he desires.

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But I'm feeling much better now.
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Old 3rd June 2003, 15:35   #19
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thnx for the link, it's been move backstage i guess, but thnx anyway baafie
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Old 5th June 2003, 05:12   #20
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*bump* so any updates? I am not here to argue why he was banned, nor am I going to start a lobby to bring him back, since it seems he doesn't want to come back, I am jsut realy curious as to _why_ he was banned, that is all. Just a simple. "he flamed someone" or "he posted warez" or whatnot is all i ask for, just something more than "'cause the admin say so" please.
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Old 5th June 2003, 05:28   #21
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Me too. I'm a bit perplexed, as we all were told that we would get an official responce in a stickied thread (current Forum situation), since lost, but it never happened. I would like to get this past me so I can once again trust my peers and moderators. I'd like to know.

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Old 5th June 2003, 08:21   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gonzotek
Using an another account when you're banned is Ban Evasion.
*cough* anal *cough* *cough* retentive *cough*


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than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings
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Old 5th June 2003, 08:41   #23
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Bah, bah, bah...

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Old 5th June 2003, 08:53   #24
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ok I didnt want to get involved in this thread, nor do I care about the situation, this is what went on, plain and simple.

about a month ago one of the forum members (why he's still here, I dont know) threatened to hack into binary hero's PC, BH didnt like this, there was a couple of threads on this.

about a day later another ex-member (neko) decided to get revenge on the dude that was threatening BH, and decided to use a mod's account to hack into his forums account and make some changes. The ex-member that did this was known to hate these forums. why? I dont know.

Now, the mod's account that was hacked into was and still is believed to be Nemessis's. Why? Because he had been disgusted with the forums at the time and all the *******ters knew about it, including the current mods. So without cause other than that, Nem was temp banned for his alleged involvement in the hacking of the dude's acct, until the mods found out otherwise. Nemessis didnt like that idea and created a thread voice-ing(sp?) his opinion of his banning, then I guess something happened between him and the mods squad in which he ended up creating a thread full of flames towards the mod squad which resulted in him being permanently banned.

Now, BH was banned because the mods/admin thought he had a part in the hacking of the guys account. Now, I wasnt around in ******* or on the forums at the time so I have no idea what went on, all I know is what I've been told. It happened a month ago so even if I did know, I porbably wouldve forgotten by now anyways

Also, these were the people who were banned from this incident:

1. neko was banned for flaming and hacking, pretty straight forward
2. BH was banned for his alleged involvement in the hacking of the dude's acct.
3. Nemessis was banned for flaming , which is very sad for me personally as well as the forums, Nem was one of the best members here
4. Matt was also banned for flaming
5. random_error was also banned , reason unkown
6. a-arse was banned, reason unkown
7. BeerBaron was banned, reason unkown
8. Qhobbes was banned also, which is weird because I hardly ever see him in *******, where all this hacking was being plotted

Now, according to admin the bans that took place are permanent, they were supposed to give a formal announcement but never did. In my opinion the ones who were banned for flaming were just letting frustrations out, no reason to permanently ban them, but I guess the mods/admins thought they had no chance of returning anyways.

Yes, in my opinion there should have been things ON BOTH SIDES that should have been done to prevent all of this from getting out of hand like it did. If so, none of the people above wouldve been banned. But I guess that's life.

Last edited by Bizznatch; 5th June 2003 at 09:08.
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Old 5th June 2003, 08:55   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bizznatch
5. random_error was also banned , reason unkown
RM'.txt


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Old 5th June 2003, 09:22   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by ctn|chrisw
RM'.txt
ok so RE was banned for flaming,

I also got word that arse was banned for posting warez intentionally and Qhobbes ban was unrelated to the incident, it just happened to be about the same time as all this was going on.

Still havent gotten word on BeerBaron.
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Old 5th June 2003, 09:38   #27
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Oh man! It's the forums 6 month curse I swear! .

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Old 5th June 2003, 14:27   #28
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bizz for mod! but seriously, thanks a lot for the explination.
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Old 5th June 2003, 15:10   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
.... Just a simple. "he flamed someone" or "he posted warez" or whatnot is all i ask for, just something more than "'cause the admin say so" please.
Well said dlink, This attitude causes more bad feeling on the forums than anything else, keep people in the dark and they start shooting blindly. If I remember correctly b_h was banned on a temporary basis pending investigation, after that it seems it was easier to do nothing than actually sort the situation out or admit that it had all been handled very badly.

It would be very easy to draw parallels with current political events and the way in which short term expediency turns into long term acceptance.

UJ
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Old 5th June 2003, 15:18   #30
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I thought this was a thread about someone doing something herioc with a bin :disappointed:
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Old 5th June 2003, 15:38   #31
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I was waiting backstage for more mods to comment on this before posting it publicly, but here's some of the requested info:

Ethan reminded me that BH was banned for posting rm.txt, ip-verified ban evasion (anyone remember O M F G?), and now once again ban evasion.

A-arse - banned for warez lists

BeerBaron - banned for posting pornography.


The reason the mods haven't been more forthcoming yet is because as of now there is still an unresolved issue or two. However, regardless of how they came to be banned, whether it was an ******* plot or an individual's mistake, each person made choices that got them in the place they are. They could have made different choices if they had wanted, no one was forcing them. We were under attack and took measures to stop it. The truly innocent people are still here, those implicated but not guilty were reinstated, and those who we could find DOCUMENTED evidence against are now banned. Many of the threads are in the evidence locker, a thing the guilty parties may be forgetting or ignoring while watching this discussion from the wings.

We have not "done nothing" nor do I feel that it was handled badly. You are drawing conclusions from incomplete data, and so I can't fault you for it, but please try to understand that we know more then we're saying and we aren't saying what that is because we don't know ENOUGH yet to be sure what we know is exactly the whole picture.

Walk a mile in a mod's shoes: Try to help out the forums, then watch them get attacked on multiple fronts by multiple individuals, then attempt to assure the security of the forums, then have your good-intent actions questions by regulars, and to top it all off, do it all for free. The long and short of it is, everyone is here because Nullsoft is cool enough to let them be here, me included. If you don't like what Nullsoft has to offer (in mods, software, or general attitude), you can simply avoid coming here. You don't have to ruin it for the rest of us. I'm sorry if that came off a little rude, I'm trying my best here to encourage understanding and not fear, uncertainty, and doubt; and I'll admit I'm weary of explaining that mods have to do the jobs they're asked to do and forums.winamp.com isn't a democracy of the people, for the people, and by the people, it's a tech support forum, for crissakes. We don't HAVE to HAVE GD, Bitchlist, Breaking News, Music-O-Rama, or any discussion areas. But we like them and like having the diversity of members we have. Before casting stones try to understand. I'm trying to understand bh's, et al's actions and that's why no one has seen me badmouthing the banned members. I'd really appreciate the same attempt.

-=Gonzotek=-

p.s. And I never even got a Winamp hat, t-shirt, or shot glass for my efforts.

I was away for a while.
But I'm feeling much better now.
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Old 5th June 2003, 15:54   #32
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Okay, it seems that yet another explanation must be given as to what went on. And to be honest, this is getting rediculous - we can post all the forum rules in the world, but what it boils down to is that if you don't be a fuckwit, you'll get along just fine with everybody here. If you act like a spoilt 6 year old kid, then what can I say...

First of all, nobody was initially banned on a permanent basis. As my original post already pointed out (and Tom posted something along the same lines), is that there was a distinct possibility at the time that either a moderator's or an administrator’s account had been compromised, and any accounts suspected of being involved were placed on a temporary ban until the matter was resolved.

Before any decisions were made, a thorough analysis was made of the webserver logs, to see who exactly had been reinstating old accounts, and generally fucking around with the backstage control panel.

1. neko was banned for flaming and hacking, pretty straight forward

Right. Neko was benned for hacking into the mod CP through a moderators account. The logs prove conclusively that it was him.

2. BH was banned for his alleged involvement in the hacking of the dude's acct.

No, Binary Hero's account was temporarily banned as he was suspected of being involved due to comments that he had made online. Whether this had been said as a joke or not is not relevant - given the situation, they had to be taken seriously until it was proven through the logs that his account had not been comprimised, or had not been used to access the mod CP.

However, in the interim, Binary Hero staged a form of protest by creating multiple accounts - many different variations of "BH", "Radioactive Man", "More of Me", "less of me" and "o m f g" to name a few. Also, under the username "less of me", he posted links to cracks, streamrippers and porn. He posted rm.txt on more than one occasion too.

3. Nemessis was banned for flaming , which is very sad for me personally as well as the forums, Nem was one of the best members here

No - Nemessis wasn't originally banned, but his account was temporarily demodded as a precautionary measure, as it was the only possible security leak at the time. However, again as some form of protest, Nemessis decided to pull threads from backstage and post them on the web. He also gave out passwords for other accounts on IRC.

4. Matt was also banned for flaming

True. Matt flamed many of the moderators backstage. But he also copied posts made backstage into IRC for other members to read, and posted rm.txt.

5. random_error was also banned , reason unkown

random_error posted porn as some form of objection to what was happening.

6. a-arse was banned, reason unkown

a-arse did pretty much the same as random_error, with his list of great warez sites

7. BeerBaron was banned, reason unkown

Banned for posting sick porn.... this is getting repetitive.....

8. Qhobbes was banned also...

...for posting links to objectionable sites, questionable avatar, trolling.....

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Old 5th June 2003, 15:58   #33
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Let's review Binary Hero..

After an alleged hacking incident, Binary Hero is banned. He then makes a new user account, and posts rm'.txt. Later on he makes another user account, and expresses his discontent with the situation.

Now, the question is, why was he banned in the first place? According to the moderators, steve banned him because he thought Binary Hero was part of the hacking incident. It is also said that this ban is permanent, and there was supposed to be an announcement about this and other bans.

Obviously, nothing will happen until steve decides to speak up. I suggest we all take a vacation.
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Old 5th June 2003, 16:03   #34
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Old 5th June 2003, 16:05   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by baafie
is also said that this ban is permanent, and there was supposed to be an announcement about this and other bans.
Okay, let me quote from my original post:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=132097
Quote:
What has not been pointed out (or may have been badly explained) is that any accounts suspected of being involved in this incident have been placed on temporary ban until the matter is resolved. At the moment, any of the logs pertaining to this are being looked at in order to find out exactly who was involved. Depending on the outcome of this, some accounts will be reinstated, some will not.
Quote:
Obviously, nothing will happen until steve decides to speak up. I suggest we all take a vacation.
I couldn't agree more. I'll try to contact him now.

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Old 5th June 2003, 16:18   #36
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Thanks Gonzo and ethan, plain and simple (if a little overdue ).

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Old 5th June 2003, 16:18   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by ethan_h
... temporary ban ...
Forgive me, I should stop listening to Bizznatch.
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Old 5th June 2003, 17:04   #38
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I think that the administrators made a big mistake. BH, Nemessis and Neko where propably indeed involved in the incident, but the others wheren't.
They should first have kept this a secret, and grab the evidence about what's going on, and then go to ban people and find out why they did it, or where involved.

Being banned is the worst that can happen to someone on the Winamp forums, and especially if you're a regular, you will go against it.
And since the mods and admins don't seem willing to answer any questions, about the how, when, where, and what of the situation, it made everything worse.

What would you do if you're angry; I'd protest. By doing things that aren't allowed, knowing that you can't lose anything anymore... You're banned anyway.

The admins provoke this kind of behavior. It's their mistake. They just ban, not explaining why...

Even a temporary ban, is like being put in prison for a few days, not knowing why... Stupid behavior...?! ("Stomweg idioot")

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Old 5th June 2003, 17:20   #39
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Quote:
I think that the administrators made a big mistake. BH, Nemessis and Neko where propably indeed involved in the incident, but the others wheren't.
You know this because???

Quote:
They should first have kept this a secret, and grab the evidence about what's going on, and then go to ban people and find out why they did it, or where involved.
How exactly could it be kept secret? The attackers were acting in public, therefore the repercussions were public knowledge as well.
Quote:
Being banned is the worst that can happen to someone on the Winamp forums, and especially if you're a regular, you will go against it.
And since the mods and admins don't seem willing to answer any questions, about the how, when, where, and what of the situation, it made everything worse.
It was explained that any bannings were to be considered temporary until otherwise noted, and the reason given was that we couldn't be sure ourselves of the who, what, where, and so on of the situation...we're still not 100% on that.

Quote:
What would you do if you're angry; I'd protest. By doing things that aren't allowed, knowing that you can't lose anything anymore... You're banned anyway.
I try not to get angry, I TRY TO UNDERSTAND A SITUATION BEFORE REACTING TO IT. I personally feel that if these individuals were such fine members they would have done the same.
Quote:
The admins provoke this kind of behavior. It's their mistake. They just ban, not explaining why...

Even a temporary ban, is like being put in prison for a few days, not knowing why... Stupid behavior...?! ("Stomweg idioot")
The explanation was given, whether you accept it or not is a different story.

The forums' security was compromised. We had no choice but to temporarily ban any account that seemed involved in any way, whatsoever. You are considering the feelings of individual members, we (the mods and admin) have to consider the forums as a whole (stats as this moment: Registered Members: 113,173; Total Threads: 113,537; Total Posts: 854,137).

-=Gonzotek=-

I was away for a while.
But I'm feeling much better now.
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Old 5th June 2003, 17:46   #40
steve
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Look, I understand the concerns many of you have. I think that perhaps the mods and I haven't been doing a good enough job of communicating when and why people are punished after the punishment is handed out. Regardless, it still stands that these members are guilty of not using their commonsense and breaking some of the most obvious rules. Their punishments will stand because the rules they broke aren't going to bend to accomedate them.

It's a shame that when mods are investigated, they start breaking all sorts of rules in protest. instead of breaking the rules, why not spend the time trying to make help everyone find the right evidence to help quickly re-instate their position rather than breaking rules and really making yourself guilty. BH and Nem should have known this.

The decisions stand.
-s

Steve Gedikian
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