Old 5th March 2013, 17:27   #1
ThuGhacK
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VP62 - More steady bitrate

Hey guys,

I know nsv isnt all that much used anymore.
But still i like it so i use it .
I wish it was that simple, but i need a bit of help.

Now i'm trying to encode on 640 all is kinda well.
Except that at 1 point of the video encoding mostly the opening i guess more movement or not sure.
It starts at around 300+- and then boosts up to 1000 then back to 300+-.
Been messing with settings i can get the boost lower to around 700. but the quality of the overall stream is way worse!

So i was wondering am i missing something? i want a pretty nice quality stream @ 640 and not having to stream at around 300 cause there are peaks that reach 1k

I tried the temporal resamping, but it will just remove loads of frames where it would be 1000k and well its unwatchable. now then for Spatial resampling.
The bitrate is nice and all but i get first a green bar suddenly @ top and then video messes up more and more.
Not sure if im using a broken VP62 or something but aint able to find a better .

Thanks in advance for any help i might be getting .

Btw: No VP8 as i don't really get any results nor do i get a actuall panel to set options.

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Old 5th March 2013, 22:20   #2
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What is type of video that is being used as a source file ?

Have you tried switching from variable to fixed bit rate encoding ?

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Old 6th March 2013, 23:53   #3
ThuGhacK
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Hey,

Well i have it set to stream instead of local.
I don't see any other option to set it to static.
My source are originaly mp4 or mkv.
I convert it first to avi before i encode it.

It seems on 640kbps VP8 is able to stream well.
Im on the list just search google have atm 1 test stream for vp8.

Still the color's arent even close to the original.
Have tried to compile the latest vp8.

Might be that im on windows 8, 64bit that im getting some errors .

Atm no xp box to test it on.

Anyway if you know how to get more options/normal colors on vp8 i would be happy.
As the bitrate is perfect although i have to set it to 1400 to get 570kbps kinda weird.

So any fix for that would be great, as the quality seems pretty good.

If you know how to fix vp62 im also happy though .
Just trying to stream at uhmz i wouldnt dare say high quality.
But still get the most out of the bitrate i'm streaming at.

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Old 6th March 2013, 23:59   #4
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The original NSV software was designed around Windows XP and 32 bit.
With each generation of windows " improvements " minor quirks appear.

You have to remember that NSV has not been updated since 2004.

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Old 7th March 2013, 01:03   #5
ThuGhacK
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Hey,

I know but i have no box to compile vp8 atm myself.
I might try a virualbox but atm not quite the time for it.

But from your reply. i asume you have no fix then ?
Btw like your site .
Had a small problem downloading a bit ago though got a internal server error.
Not sure if its been fixed.
Tried to email the webmaster email that was listed with the error but it never got deliverd.

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Old 7th March 2013, 01:14   #6
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NSV was software that was developed and written by Justen Frankel in 2004. The executable code was not open source and I am not a programmer.

Shoutcast and America Online chose not to continue active development of the NSV project.

What were you trying to download from scvi.net ?

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Old 7th March 2013, 01:43   #7
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to make a correction to the above, NSV might have been started by Justin / Christophe, etc but most of the 'later' stuff was done by a completely different team within AOL (when they were trying to make use of it before other formats (WMV) were deemed more appropriate for company use. so NSV hadn't been under directly Winamp / SHOUTcast control (seeing as that basically ground to a halt in mid-2004 anyway) for some time.
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Old 7th March 2013, 01:55   #8
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Thanks for the info guys,
But anyway .
At that time the activex files.
Although as i noticed firefox no longer supports it its useless.
Though i found the people who have vlc installed can still see it online with the vlc plugin.
That seems to work on most major browsers yay!

No solution for mobile but what do you expect with nsv .

Atm i will be using VP8 hope im at least using latest version thats compiled.
No version so no clue .
Atm thinking of writing a new nsvscsrc, or write a proper gui tool,
To add the support it doesnt have, and fix a annoying bug of updating the title before its even connected..

Any hints to improve my encoding speed or even quality is helpful .

Edit:
Offtopic but oh well,
sank, as i have been reading quite some old posts.
I noticed you where looking for a good p2p solution.
Did you find a good one ? one that ofcourse has a userbase.
As even though im listed in the shoutcast tv directory.
Max viewers i can get is about 80. and thats more then most are getting.
Even when im around 30-40 at good times i still top the others.
So i asume the userbase has slimed down/was never to big.

So checking if i can use nsv to stream to any other base to get some more viewers .

Second Edit:
It seems the icecast directory,
Allows you to add servers to there list not coming from the ip thats adding them.
I might whip up a app that reads the info from the shoutcast page.
And adds it to the icecast directory .

Now the question.. would it be usefull or just don't even try ?

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Old 7th March 2013, 07:07   #9
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Sorry for the double post,
But my other post got rather big,

Well i was able to compile the vp8 .
Now using 1.1.0 yay!

Seems i had to setup everything as it was set to build a .exe
Couldnt figure it out directly.. now build it with vc++ 2005 but seems i could have done it with 2008.. need to reinstall 2008 later and try and see if it still works .

I can encode and watch the vid. havent noticed any changes yet though.
Yes winamp does use 1.1.0 for decoding.

Could upload it somewhere if interested.

All this time i was trying to build as Debug, those settings where messed up.
While Release was correct. but i never checked.. shame on me!

Edit:
Seems the threads option was never passed so it only used 1 core.
1 small change from 1 to config.g_threads and now i can set the amounth of threads i want.
I asume its cause some people set a amounth that they dont have ?
usershoot/overshoot is also used. yet you cant set it.. no clue why.

Though threads shouldnt mean core's should it ? even if i set it to 4 it uses about 5% more to reach 80% i got 4 cores btw. so i asume it was just a mistake.
Love this blazing fast encoding. normaly i had to wait now i can watch and encode!

Edit:
Seems there is 1.2.0 but no name ?
Nor a actuall zip for it so i will try to just use the real latest modified a few days ago.
from github wish me luck lol.

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Old 7th March 2013, 11:43   #10
ThuGhacK
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For some reason i cant alter my other message.
But anyway.. i need cygwin to work to get what i need.
And for what ever reason always ls: command not found.
I googled and googled always set your path's right.
I checked it multiple times removed it and added it.

It just wont see it..

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Old 7th March 2013, 23:40   #11
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There was a open source NSV library that was developed some time ago. It is a cross platform C/C++ Library that can be used to read or write in NSV format.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/nsvlib/

This NSV lib could be made into a module for VLC - and VLC could be used for a video streaming GUI.
VLC has encoding capabilities for numerous video codecs and it also supports Shoutcast / Icecast server sourcing.

Instant NSV Karma.

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Old 8th March 2013, 11:03   #12
ThuGhacK
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Ah yeah i know about the nsvlib and about vlc.
Yet i wouldnt wanna use vlc as a streaming application.

Anyway anybody here interested in a vp80 v1.1.0 ?
I compiled it. if wanted i should be able to enable some extra feature's.
Like make the treading option actually do something.
Noise option and stuff like that.

Or just compile it as is.

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Old 9th March 2013, 01:30   #13
ThuGhacK
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Not sure why the edit button is gone but oh well..
Anyway been testing with some options etc.
Checking the code..
Found a major annoyings in the current released version.
Anybody noticed @ low quality aka also low framerate.
Lets say you set it to 12 frames. the quality is horrible ? @ 128kbps ? realtime ?
Its cause the encoders auto gets set to 30 in the code.
I fixed it and the quality @ 12 frames get amazing! and the target bitrate also now works cause of it yay! 2 fixed in 1 .

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Old 9th March 2013, 08:03   #14
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the live streaming program, nsvcap.exe is microsoft directshow capture example amcap with some minor additions to do the encoding and streaming

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 9th March 2013, 08:15   #15
ThuGhacK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaromanda View Post
the live streaming program, nsvcap.exe is microsoft directshow capture example amcap with some minor additions to do the encoding and streaming
I have really no clue how this is related.

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Old 9th March 2013, 23:32   #16
jaromanda
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it's do do with openness of source

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 9th March 2013, 23:36   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThuGhacK View Post
Not sure why the edit button is gone but oh well..
because editing is time limited.
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Old 10th March 2013, 00:50   #18
ThuGhacK
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@DrO, ah i see that explain a lot.

@jaromanda, still.. what are you on about?
When did we switch to talk about open source applications ?

OnTopic(kinda):
So there is nobody who would want the new vp80 build 1.1.0 ?

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Old 10th March 2013, 01:50   #19
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sorry, I must've mis-read something earlier

I was just wondering why the source to nsvcap was not "open" - then the glaring bugs in it could be fixed

seems quicker than starting from scratch

I'll bow out now, as I'm obviously too stupid to understand what y'all are talking about

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 10th March 2013, 12:43   #20
ThuGhacK
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Haha,
I doubt your to stupid.
As you said before you probably mis read something.
Anyway i havent used nsvcap is quite sometime.
When i did though i never had problems with it i could keep it running for weeks without problem.

Atm i mostly stream pre-encoded files to a hosting server.
Would be nice though seeing more nsv related open source tools.

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Old 10th March 2013, 17:20   #21
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I hate that i have to double post but oh well..
Anyway are you guys sure nsv is all that dead as people think ?
Atm you can play a nsv stream on the wii, android, windows pc,linux pc, mac!
Most of them are done by VideoLan(VLC) + Browser support by VLC! yes they have a browser plugin for all mainstream browsers!

But i can watch my stream on my mobile without problem(sound stutterd cause mobile it a bit slow) but still!

I did notice winamp hasnt fixed the flip screen.. so when you encode for winamp.
VLC will show it upside down. but it has options to fix it. even on android!

With the VP80 codec i compiled i can get quite good quality on 320kbps even 128kbps its quite good(not as good as what i wanna watch though i like hd).

List of things we might want to replace/update, though update isnt possible.
nsvate.exe - still working perfectly for me(would be nice to have multi file encoding)
nsvcap.exe - never had problems(did read people having problems)
nsvscsrc.exe - would be nice to have a better one with more options(its possible to make a fully new one, would take a bit of time)
NSVenc.exe - never used it doubt it has any problems.
nsv_coder_vp62.dll - kinda outdated but still nice to sometimes use.
nsv_coder_vp80.dll - not to new but still being updated by google yay?
nsv_coder_aacplus.dll - no problems that are known to me so no problem right ?

So if we could get a gui that fixes/bypasses problems on nsvscsrc and adds a few feature's
Its a done deal, although a new app for this might be best(requires more work).

So to me it looks like we still got all tools working to make this happen.
Good video encoder(vp62,vp80), good audio encoder(aacplus).
Good encoder tools(nsvate), good live encoder tool(nsvcap).
Semi good streaming tool(nsvscsrc).

Any other reason why nsv would be outdated ? as to me it doesnt even seem most tools do require a update.

Edit:
Btw atm i'm checking how to add second pass to vp80 as it would be nice to have.
Just a pain to me to add as i dont often code in c++.
And ofcourse saving/reading of profile data. shouldnt be to hard.
And add some more public options like noise/sharpness.

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Old 16th March 2013, 14:42   #22
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Quote:
Anyway are you guys sure nsv is all that dead as people think ?
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/01/te...ted=all&src=pm

This was the day AOL killed it. July 1, 2004. Is Winamp dead? I think a lot of these things are dead being replaced by dedicated applications. Give it 10 years and we might not remember what a podcast, a media player or an RSS feed is.

Dead as a can of spam. It always was a twitchy bitch.

Webmaster rules of thumb:

No one will type or install anything. They'll just go someplace they don't have to.

There is a shift in the way media is getting delivered. In 10 years, we won't remember what a podcast, an RSS feed or a media player is. Everything is going to dedicated apps.

On Android.... you really do need that hardware video decoder. The manufacturers didn't include it for fun. VLC on Android? Not good. Uses your main processor instead of the super fast hardware decoder. That's doggish and a half.

NSV is dead. Is Winamp? It's got a lot of things working against it.

Last edited by rockouthippie; 16th March 2013 at 17:10.
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Old 19th May 2013, 17:39   #23
ThuGhacK
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Well just so you know still using vp8, though i guess its a mix of vp8 and vp9 atm..
As the vp8 source is using partially same as vp9 and vise-versa.

Anyway i am finally able to compile the github version on my win 8 box with visual studio 2010 yay!
Not quite sure how much improvement this will give though.

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