Old 22nd August 2003, 06:14   #1
J. Burnaway
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Way back when...

Before the Big Bang (if you believe in it) what was there?

Go.
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Old 22nd August 2003, 06:19   #2
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a really big m-80... heh...

There was ummm... well... I would assume that there was a whole lot of nothing and at the same time a whole lot of something smashed up real small.
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Old 22nd August 2003, 07:51   #3
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Re: Way back when...

Quote:
Originally posted by J. Burnaway
Before the Big Bang (if you believe in it)
The big bang requires no belief.

Firstly if the universe was infinite, then if you picked any line in the night sky and went directly forwards out into space, you would eventually come across a star (it being infinite). That implies that theres a star along every line of sight, which in turn means that the sky would be white.

So the universe cannot be infinite.

When a fire truck speeds past your house, its sirens appear to sound higher pitched when its coming towards you, and lower pitched when its going away from you.

The same effect happens with light, and we can measure very accuratly that everything is moving away from us in the universe.
Therefore the universe is expanding. So today the universe is smaller than it will be tomorrow. Therefore, at one point in the past the universe was very, very small. The big bang.

No belief required, only understanding.
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Old 22nd August 2003, 08:00   #4
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Quote:
That implies that theres a star along every line of sight, which in turn means that the sky would be white.
you forgot that stars' light far away doesn't reach us as much as closer celestial bodies.

if time is infinite, it could never of began, nor wil it end. so if the BB was to happen at the beginning of time, it would've never of happened. i feel that this will deteroriate in pointless argeuing as these things usally do, i no thats there is about 4-5 threads that have been on this topic beforehand and have gone into flaming, saying that one theory is more right than another. there only theories, not fact
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Old 22nd August 2003, 10:07   #5
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The light from the stars may not have reached us yet. Just because the universe may not have been around for an infinite ammount of time doesn't mean that the size of the universe isn't infinite.

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Old 22nd August 2003, 11:19   #6
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We could all just take the easy way out and say that *Gasp* "God" created everything ..

But it's not going to be me saying it.
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Old 22nd August 2003, 12:02   #7
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maybe god made the big bang happen....
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Old 22nd August 2003, 13:14   #8
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You can believe that God created it, AND believe in the Big Bang, easily.

What I love is people who say, "There is no God. There was only the Big Bang." I then ask, "Where did the matter involved in the Big Bang come from?" and they reply, "Uhhhmmmmmmm. It was already there, DUH." "Yes, and who put it there?" "Nobody MADE it, it was just THERE already." *sigh*
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Old 22nd August 2003, 13:21   #9
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and what made it go bang?
"i dunno, it just did"

*sigh*
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Old 22nd August 2003, 13:25   #10
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Old 22nd August 2003, 13:46   #11
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What was before the big bang is irrelevent as it cannot affect us is any way now because it is not in our universe, and by definition of the universe, cannot affect us.


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Old 22nd August 2003, 14:14   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by MetallichicA
You can believe that God created it, AND believe in the Big Bang, easily.

What I love is people who say, "There is no God. There was only the Big Bang." I then ask, "Where did the matter involved in the Big Bang come from?" and they reply, "Uhhhmmmmmmm. It was already there, DUH." "Yes, and who put it there?" "Nobody MADE it, it was just THERE already." *sigh*
so if God made the matter for the big bang where did God come from? or was god created or is God infinite and so god always has been there and always will be there? and now i'm getting myself all confused
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Old 22nd August 2003, 14:21   #13
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Old 23rd August 2003, 15:21   #14
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"It is apparent that creators sometimes favour the Big Bang method of universe construction, and at other times use the more gentle methods of Continual Creation. This follows studies by cosmotherapists which have revealed that the violence of the Big Bang can give a universe serious psychological problems when it gets older". Terry Prattchet.

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Old 23rd August 2003, 17:23   #15
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Re: Re: Way back when...

Quote:
Originally posted by will
The big bang requires no belief...
I was trying to be respectful of people whose religious beliefs cause them to have differing viewpoints so this wouldn't degenerate into another religion argument. There are some who will say that God created the universe 6000 years ago with the stars as they are and their light from billions of years already in the position it would be in if there was a big bang - which is an argument you can't really disprove because it takes your evidence and puts a really convenient spin on it.

devilsadvocatephily: just because something has no effect on us doesn't mean it's not interesting to think about. You should know that Mr. SETI!

I once heard a proof of why the universe can't be infinite. It had something to do with the rate at which light dissapates over distance and that surface area of a sphere - like if you have a sphere of stars, there would be another sphere of stars twice as far. The light from the outer sphere would be dimmer by a factor of 3, but the number of stars would be greater by a factor of 4, so the light from those stars would be brighter than the light from the closer sphere. If the universe was infinite, there would be an infinite number of these spheres, and it would never be dark at night. Does that make sense? The math is probably borked, but that was the gist.
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Old 23rd August 2003, 17:31   #16
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Re: Way back when...

Quote:
Originally posted by J. Burnaway
Before the Big Bang (if you believe in it) what was there?
energy. the center of the universe had a very high amount of energy (this is reflected by the change in the speed of light)... then all the energy reached one point, and the big bang happened. as all the material spreads out from the centre point of the universe, energy will build up again (as all the material slowly dissipates into energy and is attracted back to the void in the centre), and eventually that energy will reach a concentration that will lead to another "big bang". it's a cycle, innit? preservation of energy.

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Old 23rd August 2003, 22:35   #17
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Gather 'round for storytime kiddies

Before the earth, the stars, the moon, the Big Bang, there was God, but not the ones you hear about these days in the bible, nosiree. This was an UberGod, who was bored. The other God was his brother, who we'll call GoofGod; he was starting to run amock trying to create little dolls for himself from dirt and ribs or some shit. The UberGod saw this, and didn't like it. He liked the concept, but the little two-legged creatures didn't do anything worthwhile in his eyes. So he ignored this part of the galaxy and focused on his own creation, which was a bountiful and prosperous world filled with waffles, llamas, vikings, music and Winamps. It was good indeed.

A few eons passed, the UberGod's world grew in perfect harmony, while GoofGod's world, was, well, doing okay. It had seen ups and down, more downs than ups naturally, and GG sought for a way to change this. He consulted his brother, UberGod, saying, "These humans, they do nothing! Whatever they do, they fuck up, whenever there's peace, one of them has to go and destroy it, when there's something good, they have to flip it and mutilate it into something bad. Help me fix this, before I flush this world down my GodToilet™!!" Of course, the UberGod wanted nothing to do with his fuckup BrotherGod's new fucked up world, but he hated to see him unhappy, so he decided to step in.

The UberGod brought his UberNullsoft team down from his UberWorld to create a media player that would surely bring joy to those who used it. People around the world were elated, listening to their favorite songs on Winamp, while surfing through the syrupy waves of their newly created Waffledom, whipping the various llamas they happened to pass. Singing vikings were scattered along this syrupy stream, bringing endless bouts of laughter to those would pause to listen to their haikus of Winamp praise.

Many prophets also cropped up, ranting on the joys and Winamp to those who were disbelievers or had stumbled upon the Winamp Valley, and weren't quite sure what it was. Those who refuted the beliefs of the Waffle, were thrown into the Sonique Pit, never to be heard from again. (Not that there was anything wrong with Sonique, we just didn't want these rambling cuntsores in our world) All was good, for a time. Many passed through, basking in the golden reflections of the crisply fresh waffles, occasionally drinking from the Stream of Syrup, and pondering and discussing the various teachings from the prophets. Legend also has it that if you whipped the llamas the right way, at the right time, in the second phase of the New Viking Moon, they would bestow upon the Winamp world a new stream, or, on rare occasions, a new version of the player.

The GoofGod looked upon this new world, and was joyous. He thanked his brother, the UberGod for all he done, and somehow convinced him that he could now run the world on his own, seeing how wonderful everything had become. The UberGod was not very pleased at GG's decision, but left reluctantly, as he only wanted to please his BrotherGod and not cause any upset between them. Before returning back to his Winamp World, he warned GoofGod of this one group called simply AOL. He told him to be wary of those people, as they had a tendency to destroy whatever came into their greedy hands and manipulate it into something purely for economic gain. The GoofGod listened to this adivce, but not with both ears, which would later ensure a certain doom for his world.

And so, the GoofGod took control of this world, making sure the syrup was always flowing, the vikings always singing, and the music, always, always playing. He gave little heed however, the small groups of "Suits" that were now popping up here and there around his world. He figured they were just newcomers, and would soon shed that appearance and begin to contribute and make the world better; boy was this motherfucker wrong.

The Suits spread through the world quickly, like a bloodsucking virus, running around with their TOS agreements in their hands, sending all who disobeyed to their newly erected guillotines. They raped and pillaged, sucking the Syrup Streams dry, burning the Waffle Valley to an ugly brown crisp, and throwing all the Vikings and Llamas into an underground asylum, never to be heard from again. In their wake, they had leveled the paradise to nothing more than a parched, souless, empty land of misery, with only the burned waffle carcasses as a reminder of what once was.

Needless to say, the GoofGod gave up hope, and began heavily drinking. I last heard that he had gotten pulled over and arrested on DUI charges, for driving his comet into a nearby nubile solar system. The UberGod saw what had happened to this world, and shrugged, saying "I warned that DickheadGod, so much for that."

Every now and then though, the UberGod passes by, dropping off a single prophet to walk the Waffle Graves and offer aid to anyone who is there. They have come to be known as Moderators, and the old school ones stand proudly, walking amongst the weak and distraught, offering light and salvation, with their "Book Of Winamp" firmly planted in their hand. Possibly, these chosen few can bring people back to the barren and destroyed world left behind by the Suits. Until that day of Waffle Redemption and Judgement comes, they will continue on with their quest....

-Book of Waffle, Chapter 10:1-59
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Old 23rd August 2003, 22:41   #18
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Old 23rd August 2003, 23:29   #19
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I've had had many discussions with my physics teacher at high school about this, I was always asking questions he could not answer and we made this conclusion:

BB took time at 0:00,000
There was no before BB, becasue at the 0:00,000 time the existence of the TIME started.
There was no MATTER at the 0:00,000 there was just pure ENERGY.
The ENERGY was concetrated in the 0 (=the biggining) place.
Since there was no SPACE (x-axis, y-axis, z-axis), the MATTER couldn't have existed, because MATTER must have dimensions.
The big bang was just the point, where this ENERGY converted into MATTER, so the SPACE had to start existing, and the TIME as well (accepting the fact time is the fourth dimension...)

And here we have two ways of understanding the problem:

a) Max speed = speed of light
=> The size of the universe is NOT infinite, because the matter started moving from the 0 point, so the maximum diameter of the Space is:
R = speed of light * age of the Space.

b) Max speed > speed of light
=> The size of the universe IS infinite... [insert very long and boring article WHY it is infinite]

I am sure this is not correctly explained, but I am better in physics in my native language than in English...

How do they call the Big Mac? Big Mac's a Big Mac, but they call it Le Big Mac! LE BIG MAC?!

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Old 24th August 2003, 07:09   #20
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I think I found the thing I was talking about before: it's called Olbers' Paradox. The easy explanation is: if the universe was infinite in space and time, then no matter where you looked, eventually you would see a star. Every point in space would be occupied by a star, therefore it would never be dark, and in fact it would be infinitely bright.

There is a math proof to back this up also. Search for Olber's Paradox if you are interested.
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Old 24th August 2003, 07:17   #21
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Before god created the universe, he created nothing at all.

-St. Augustine, The Confessions
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Old 24th August 2003, 08:43   #22
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Re: Gather 'round for storytime kiddies

Quote:
Originally posted by SexyLoserKitten
[...]

-Book of Waffle, Chapter 10:1-59
PRAISE THE LORD

=D

"My heart hates uggos." –J.D.
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Old 24th August 2003, 09:25   #23
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i have a question.

if the universe is not infinite then what is over the boundary of the universe?

"Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?"
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Old 24th August 2003, 09:26   #24
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A wooden fence, with an angry dog.
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Old 24th August 2003, 09:27   #25
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well that explains it.

"Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?"
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Old 24th August 2003, 09:32   #26
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Old 24th August 2003, 09:34   #27
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Also as interesting; what happens later on in time?

The stars are running out of fuel, and will die eventually, leaving the galaxies cold and without light.

And will the universe then contract? Will there be another big bang? Or will it just remain as lifeless rocks...
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Old 24th August 2003, 10:20   #28
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c2R: depends on how much matter is there in the universe. Either will it contract into the state which practically WAS the big bang (let's call it rewind), than the big bang thing is likely to happen again; or it will expand for all the time...

How do they call the Big Mac? Big Mac's a Big Mac, but they call it Le Big Mac! LE BIG MAC?!

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Old 24th August 2003, 11:30   #29
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in otherwords :
small bang - repeat
really big bang - drift off eternally, and is dead and lifeless and boring and hope to god your eterall soul isnt trapped there...
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