Old 7th March 2013, 15:29   #1
DJ Egg
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Winamp Cloud Beta FAQ

___________________________________

Winamp Cloud Beta on Winamp Labs
___________________________________

User Guide

1. Install Winamp 5.7 Beta with Winamp Cloud Beta [Download | Info]

2. Click on the Cloud Sources view in the Winamp Media Library or visit http://cloud.winamp.com in your browser (IE/Chrome/Firefox)

3. Login via the Facebook login.

Note that only Facebook logins are supported at the moment, as a means of authentication.
More auth methods will be coming later (Google, AOL/Winamp, etc).

4. You will now be placed on the Cloud Waitlist.

We will be distributing some invites over the coming days.

On receiving the invite, go to https://cloud.winamp.com to login.

Unfortunately, depending on the numbers, we may not be able to give invites to everyone at this time.

Further info can be found via Winamp Labs and your Cloud Profile page.

5. Go to the Cloud Sources page in the Winamp player (Windows pc client), login and confirm that your PC has been added.

6. You now need to wait for the Winamp (Windows client), specifically, the Cloud plugin, to scan your Media Library.

This could take a while with large libraries, but not too long with smaller ones.
Under normal circumstances, it only needs doing once per Winamp release....
You can view the progress by right-clicking "Cloud Sources" in the Media Library tree and selecting "Toggle Status Window"
or by going to: Winamp > Prefs (Ctrl+P) > Media Library > Cloud Sources > Logging tab
(also accessible by right-clicking on "Cloud Sources" in the Media Library tree and selecting "Preferences")

When it says "First Pull Completed" you are ready to start using the Winamp Cloud features.

Note that a first pull completion is also required on each Winamp restart, but should be a fairly quick process,
unless lots of newly added/edited songs need to be scanned....
Cloud features will be disabled until first pull has completed (usually a few seconds or so).

7. Start uploading your music to the Cloud.

Transfers can be made by clicking the Transfer button at the bottom of the Winamp Cloud view under the Cloud Sources node,
or by clicking the Transfer icon in the top right corner of the view,
both which work in a similar way to the "Devices > Sync" method...
Or you can right-click single or multiple songs in the Local Media Views or Playlist, and select: Send To > Cloud Sources > Winamp Cloud.
Or you can click the arrow in the Cloud column in the Local Media views and checkmark Winamp Cloud to start the transfer.
Transfer progress can be viewed via the Transfers view under the Cloud Sources node.

Any PC that you add to the Cloud will show under Cloud Sources.

Android devices are also supported (requires Winamp For Android 2.0 Beta)

Download from Cloud to local machine/device is coming soon.

You can listen to all songs you've uploaded to Winamp Cloud anywhere by using the Winamp Cloud Web Player at http://cloud.winamp.com

You can also play your songs via the Cloud view in Winamp, though it will always try to use a local version first, if one exists.
If no local version is found it will then stream it from the cloud instead.

___________________________________

Support FAQ

1. Windows


Q: What file types are currently supported for uploads?
A: MP3, MP4/M4A (audio-only). FLAC will upload, but the cloud web player can't play them.

Q: I get an Error: Song is not part of Cloud Library when trying to upload some songs.
A: File type is currently not supported (e.g. ogg, wma, wav);
or mediahash for song hasn't been calculated / metadata has not yet been announced.

If the latter, go to: Prefs > Cloud Sources > Options tab, and click "Rescan Local Library Now".
Go to Logging tab (or right-click on "Cloud Sources" in ML tree, and select "Toggle Status Window") to see progress.
If progress bar gets to 100% and files still do not upload, restart Winamp and watch progress again.
If the scan is going really slow, close and reopen Winamp again.
Wait for the progress bar to reach 100% or for first pull to complete before attempting to upload songs to cloud.

Note that, under normal circumstances, new songs should be automatically added to the database and any subsequent metadata edits (via the Winamp interface) for songs already in the database should also be automatically updated...

Q: What does the "Reset Cloud Library" button do?
A: It removes all songs you've uploaded to the cloud and resets everything back to the beginning, as though you are starting again from scratch.

Q: I have a major problem not covered by the above
A: Most problems are solved by deleting your local cloud database.

The cloud database file can be found via: %AppData%\Winamp\cloud\local-(uid).db

You can make a backup first if you wish.

Close Winamp, delete the .db file, reopen Winamp.
Winamp will now recreate the local cloud database by pulling directly from the cloud server.
It might take a few minutes for first pull to complete again....

Note that providing your Unique User ID (uid) in all correspondence will help us to troubleshoot & fix any serverside issues.

You can also use the "Save" button via "Winamp > Prefs (Ctrl+P) > Cloud Sources > Logging" tab
to save the current log to a .txt file and then attach it to your post here.

Please also note that this is beta software with some potential or unfound teething issues.
There may also be occasional serverside issues, which we will aim to fix as soon as possible, if and when they should occur.


2. Android

==TODO==


3. Cloud web player

Q: How do I improve streaming playback speed in Firefox browser? It takes 10+ secs for the next song to start playing...
A: To decrease latency (time it takes for a song to stream/buffer & start playing) in Firefox v20+
- Make sure you've got the latest version of Firefox from http://www.getfirefox.com
- Type the following into the Firefox address bar: about:config
- Type "media" into the search filter
- Look for the "media.windows-media-foundation.enabled" setting (screenshot)
- Double-click it to toggle it from "false" to "true" (screenshot)
- Refresh the cloud.winamp.com page using Ctrl+F5.
This will make Firefox use the Windows Media Foundation engine for streaming playback instead of the default Flash player
(which downloads songs in full to a temp folder on the local hard drive first, ie. it doesn't do proper http streaming!)
Hopefully, Mozilla will be making this the default setting in the next Firefox release (v21 or v22)...


4. Accounts

==TODO==


___________________________________
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Old 9th March 2013, 17:23   #2
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Very cool. Will Cloud Sources only apply to Winamp Cloud services, or will other cloud services be supported in the future? Google Music, for example.

Request: A little SmartView Query Language love.
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Old 9th March 2013, 20:15   #3
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the free version seems to be only 5gigs. i have around 500gigs. what costs are there with more gigs?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 11th March 2013, 12:06   #4
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When can we expect OGG support?

Winamp user since v1.something.
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Old 13th March 2013, 00:31   #5
osmosis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmosis View Post
Very cool. Will Cloud Sources only apply to Winamp Cloud services, or will other cloud services be supported in the future? Google Music, for example.
Follow-up, if you don't plan on implementing this yourselves, we may have a viable workaround (at least on Android) thanks to an intrepid developer.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2169761

Request: A little SmartView Query Language love.
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Old 13th March 2013, 05:15   #6
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i don't know if you saw my bug report re: the new cloud stuff in the 5.7b thread, but its still not working for me.

it still crashes when i load winamp a second time. the fix is to remove all the ML Cloud section in gen_ml.ini but that makes the whole scan start over. this last time it "max shrank" all the columns of my last used view!

i still haven't gotten an email from you all but i seemingly can get into the cloud service both inside winamp and at the website.

it now says 100gigs free, but its confusing. the website actually says the cloud is 100gig free, but it says my laptop has used 97.77GiB. what is it talking about? (i have around 500gigs of files) no file is seemingly actually uploaded, so i can't play anything, so how can 97gig be used? EDIT: it seems to be continuing from my last point, even though i have to delete the gen_ml stuff.

i was uploading what appeared to be my ML DB (not songs) to the site, got to around 20%, and then it slowed to a crawl (but was still progressing).

also, i have 65,576 items (audio). yet it was only trying to sync ~ 64,9xx of them. what was it skipping? i have mp3, flac, and a handful of mp4 and wma, (no drm). EDIT: it may be that isn't skipping as much as i thought, as it may just be continuing from its last point, but idk for sure.

the website needs an "album artist" column.

the website is somewhat slow to react.

the website needs a "search" field.

what are the "new revision ###" popups meaning?

it can be hard to remove entries from the website you try to manually remove, and i think the cloud sync should first remove from the website anything it had previously uploaded (be it a file or just a DB record) that is now no longer in the local winamps DB on the PC. syncing shouldn't just be adding, it should also be removing.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 13th March 2013, 12:59   #7
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i see now it has a search field, but it was hard for me to see on a different computer.

also, i tell the website to "remove" entries (via right click) but even though it says it does, they remain.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 14th March 2013, 02:59   #8
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more feedback: my winamp reports i have 475.75gigs. the cloud website says my computer has 475.82gigs, which is actually probably close enough, since i might have a handful of small video files in my audio files.

but what i find interesting is i have 65576 audio files locally, yet the cloud reports 32,768 tracks. thats almost exactly half. so i'm not sure how the count could be so off if the gigs are so close, and also i don't know if the cloud tracks are counted accurately. do i have all the tracks and the total is just wrong? or is the total correct as to how many i am actually being shown?

i also had an idea:

instead of doing all this intense syncing, why not just upload the winamp DB files to your server and convert them to a mySQL DB (or table) for each account?

also, can the plugin be made to be multi-threaded so it can process multiple files at once?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 15th March 2013, 04:40   #9
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cloud online will not see duplicate named files
(files with same name same artist different length or record dates)
this is why you may see a difference in number of tracks
if loaded in winamp on another computer the number will be correct

also if running on 2 computers your numbers will be double as both are indexed as separate entities

thanks rob
(c)rob 2013 (picture & SN)

(please note) As users we can't give others help unless we get full details of the problem that you are having
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Old 15th March 2013, 04:42   #10
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do i have some duplicates? likely. do i have 30k+ dupes? no.

and why would the number be correct on another computer but not this one?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 15th March 2013, 04:47   #11
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unless im reading your post wrong
are you saying cloud online is showing more files?
or are you saying winamp is reporting more files than showing in the online browser version?

for me online is about 11 files behind as those files have similar name and artist just different track numbers because they were recorded on different dates

thanks rob
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(please note) As users we can't give others help unless we get full details of the problem that you are having
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Old 15th March 2013, 04:52   #12
MrSinatra
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here is what i said:

"but what i find interesting is i have 65576 audio files locally, yet the cloud reports 32,768 tracks. thats almost exactly half."

unfortunately my normal laptop is in the shop, so when i log into the cloud, i can't see any tracks to provide a screenshot.

i have uploaded no actual files. i am talking only about what the cloud tallies say based on the tag syncing.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 15th March 2013, 05:07   #13
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sounds like it did the database twice then
why cant say
if you dont actually have that many files on your computer i would suggest doing rescan
if you do have that many it means not all were media hashed correctly and did not report to the cloud database itself
why, cant really say as computers can be picky

thanks rob
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(please note) As users we can't give others help unless we get full details of the problem that you are having
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Old 15th March 2013, 05:09   #14
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the cloud reports the right amount of gigs (close enough) but only half the tracks that i actually have here, locally.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 15th March 2013, 05:21   #15
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which can mean a few things
not all files were indexed or it's hiding duplicate filenames
without doing a reset on the database i cant really tell you why it only sees half of your database
memory is a separate index in the database

other thing could be happening
is online is hiding files it knows it cant handle
example videos

thanks rob
(c)rob 2013 (picture & SN)

(please note) As users we can't give others help unless we get full details of the problem that you are having
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Old 15th March 2013, 05:44   #16
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trust me, i don't have anywhere near 30k dupes. i have 4 or 5 videos at most.

the whole point of me posting tho is for the devs to be aware of it so they can fix it. we need not blindly speculate, just report.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 15th March 2013, 11:33   #17
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don't reset your library, wait for the next build.
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Old 19th March 2013, 03:44   #18
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Uh... I hate to be negative, but if I'm gonna use this, it's gonna have to be more capable that Google Cloud, Amazon, Ubuntu One... bla bla... This sort of looks like the ugly little brother you have to tie a pork chop to so the dog will play with him.

Will you store my 17GB mp3 collection? Google does. Amazon gives me 5GB+anything I buy. What makes me not yawn here?
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Old 19th March 2013, 04:15   #19
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cloud is still work in progress
as work continues better features will be introduced to make it better than other similar platforms
right now as you see it is still in beta format
so there are bound to be hiccups here and there

thanks rob
(c)rob 2013 (picture & SN)

(please note) As users we can't give others help unless we get full details of the problem that you are having
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Old 19th March 2013, 19:40   #20
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I just got the Cloud invite and I can't start the Winamp 2.0 beta after a clean install. It just tells me: "Unfortunately. Winamp has stopped". I have HTC Sensation with ICS (official ROM).
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Old 19th March 2013, 19:57   #21
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thanks for the feedback
all error reports will help the developers find whats going wrong

since yes you are not the only one having issues with the android version of cloud

thanks rob
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(please note) As users we can't give others help unless we get full details of the problem that you are having
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Old 19th March 2013, 21:12   #22
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Here is the error which CatLog reported:
code:
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): FATAL EXCEPTION: main
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to create application com.nullsoft.winamp.WinampApp: android.database.sqlite.SQLiteException: Can't upgrade read-only database from version 0 to 1: /data/data/com.nullsoft.winamp/cloud-721e6bacd5d2072d.db
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.app.ActivityThread.handleBindApplication(ActivityThread.java:4465)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.app.ActivityThread.access$1300(ActivityThread.java:139)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.app.ActivityThread$H.handleMessage(ActivityThread.java:1305)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.os.Handler.dispatchMessage(Handler.java:99)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.os.Looper.loop(Looper.java:154)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.app.ActivityThread.main(ActivityThread.java:4945)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at java.lang.reflect.Method.invokeNative(Native Method)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:511)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at com.android.internal.os.ZygoteInit$MethodAndArgsCaller.run(ZygoteInit.java:784)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at com.android.internal.os.ZygoteInit.main(ZygoteInit.java:551)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at dalvik.system.NativeStart.main(Native Method)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): Caused by: android.database.sqlite.SQLiteException: Can't upgrade read-only database from version 0 to 1: /data/data/com.nullsoft.winamp/cloud-721e6bacd5d2072d.db
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.database.sqlite.SQLiteOpenHelper.getReadableDatabase(SQLiteOpenHelper.java:244)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at com.nullsoft.replicant.cloud.ReplicantDBCore.initDB(SourceFile:61)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at com.nullsoft.replicant.cloud.ReplicantDB.initDB(SourceFile:32)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at com.nullsoft.replicant.cloud.CloudManager.initDB(SourceFile:99)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at com.nullsoft.winamp.WinampApp.onCreate(SourceFile:167)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.app.Instrumentation.callApplicationOnCreate(Instrumentation.java:981)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): at android.app.ActivityThread.handleBindApplication(ActivityThread.java:4462)
03-19 21:44:37.562 E/AndroidRuntime(12255): ... 10 more
03-19 21:44:37.592 E/EmbeddedLogger(242): App crashed! Process: com.nullsoft.winamp
03-19 21:44:37.592 E/EmbeddedLogger(242): App crashed! Package: com.nullsoft.winamp v1078 (2.0)
03-19 21:44:37.622 E/EmbeddedLogger(242): Application Label: Winamp



I have no idea how to delete /data/data/com.nullsoft.winamp/cloud-721e6bacd5d2072d.db, since that is not on my SD card and uninstalled and cleared on Winamp data before I installed the new version.
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Old 19th March 2013, 21:42   #23
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Hey kustodian

We've received a few similar reports.
It's being looked into, and we'll hopefully have a fix available soon.

Sorry :-(
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Old 4th April 2013, 19:59   #24
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some feedback:

the cloud website proper needs to support artwork imo. google does.

in the winamp app, the ML column for the cloud has an up arrow for something NOT in the cloud, and nothing for something in the cloud. this is backwards and messy.

first of all, there should not be an indication of a negative, meaning the up arrow denoting something not in the cloud. it should be the other way around, some kind of dot or checkmark showing that something IS in the cloud, a positive indication something "made it"

secondly, a lot of users are going to have a lot more music than the cloud provides space for, so this indication of a negative just clutters up the ML tracks pane. its like having a visual indicator for some missing tag, it just isn't appropriate. alternatively, you could, by pref, use red and green dots to show what isn't or is (respectively) in the cloud. but visually indicating only a negative is frankly, nonsense.

however, it would make sense to have a toggle in the NP file info pane, a button that one would click to upload the current song. the button should itself also display if the current song is uploaded or not, (i.e. pull double duty).

I still have never gotten an email from the cloud about the cloud.

also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i also had an idea:

instead of doing all this intense syncing, why not just upload the winamp DB files to your server and convert them to a mySQL DB (or table) for each account?

also, can the plugin be made to be multi-threaded so it can process multiple files at once?
wouldn't this be a perfect job for winamp agent? it could be made multi threading and work outside of winamp proper, so a separate process and it wouldn't crash winamp. it could copy and upload the DB files as well to be translated serverside to MySQL.

this is how google does it kinda, in that they use a tray app, and it monitors for changes.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=358822

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 4th April 2013, 22:16   #25
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cloud does support artwork
just right now the only artwork supported is embeded artwork in the music file
if you just add album art to the song through winamp it does not always embed the artwork into the file

as for arrows the right pointing arrow generally means there is typically a menu, if grayed out means menu is not available
down arrow means menu has been expanded
for any other arrows im not sure what you mean

if you have not recieved your email yet dont be discouraged as im sure there is a back log of applicants

as for storage there is space to have 100gb service it will have a cost to it
for 5gig itself you can get a lot of files (depending on quality and file size)
i have 200 songs on my 4 gig flash card on my phone and still have more than 3 gig left

as the cloud is still proof of concept the finals are not completely set
recommendations to make it better are still being accepted

thanks rob
(c)rob 2013 (picture & SN)

(please note) As users we can't give others help unless we get full details of the problem that you are having
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Old 4th April 2013, 22:36   #26
MrSinatra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
cloud does support artwork
just right now the only artwork supported is embeded artwork in the music file
if you just add album art to the song through winamp it does not always embed the artwork into the file
first, are you a dev? or a user?

second, I am talking about at the cloud website. last I saw, no artwork there.

third, I will never embed art, and winamp doesn't natively support it, (meaning the ability to embed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
as for arrows the right pointing arrow generally means there is typically a menu, if grayed out means menu is not available
down arrow means menu has been expanded
for any other arrows im not sure what you mean
I have no idea what you are talking about but I was clear as to what I am talking about. in the ML tracks pane there is now a column with a cloud on it. if (in a given file's row) it is not uploaded, an "up" arrow is shown. if it is uploaded, no arrow is shown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
if you have not recieved your email yet dont be discouraged as im sure there is a back log of applicants
that's not the point. the point is I seemingly have full access (or had it prior) without ever having gotten an email.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
as for storage there is space to have 100gb service it will have a cost to it
for 5gig itself you can get a lot of files (depending on quality and file size)
i have 200 songs on my 4 gig flash card on my phone and still have more than 3 gig left
I am aware of this but I have no idea what point you are making.

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Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
as the cloud is still proof of concept the finals are not completely set
recommendations to make it better are still being accepted
that is what I am doing here.

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Old 4th April 2013, 22:53   #27
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i am a cloud user
and all my files have embeded artwork in them
when i play them on the cloud website the album art shows up next to the track counter
winamp does use embeded artwork just fine just does not embed the artwork itself
there are many file folders i have that the only artwork is in the music file itself and there are no issues from winamp
only program that tends to complain is windows media player
and i dont use that if i dont have to

the icon you are refering to is a cloud
when the icon is filled it means the file was uploaded and is sitting on the cloud website
when it is hollow it has been indexed yet has not been uploaded
depending on which skin you are in it is easier to understand

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Old 4th April 2013, 23:13   #28
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re: cloud icon column...

up arrow (aka upload icon) = not known to the cloud & if not uploaded to cloud hosting

no icon = known to the cloud and available on the local cloud client (even if it has a cloud hosted instance)

full cloud icon = only available as a cloud hosted instance

half cloud = mix of cloud and local and other device instances

partial cloud = not directly available on local cloud client and not available as a cloud hosted instance i.e. only present on another cloud client which is not always there like a WAFA install


clicking the cloud icon (or right-click -> cloud-sources sub-menu on a library item) shows a menu showing what cloud devices the file is known to relate to along with being able to upload / remove from a device.

additional there is a tooltip which gives an indication of device locations and what the up arrow means. and the column can be removed if it's annoying / deemed useless in the views.
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Old 5th April 2013, 00:12   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
i am a cloud user
and all my files have embeded artwork in them
when i play them on the cloud website the album art shows up next to the track counter
winamp does use embeded artwork just fine just does not embed the artwork itself
there are many file folders i have that the only artwork is in the music file itself and there are no issues from winamp
only program that tends to complain is windows media player
and i dont use that if i dont have to
and when the cloud site last worked for me, I saw no artwork. if its b/c its not embedded, that's a problem. google handles it fine.

trust me, I am well aware of winamp the app's capabilities vis a vis embeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
the icon you are refering to is a cloud
when the icon is filled it means the file was uploaded and is sitting on the cloud website
when it is hollow it has been indexed yet has not been uploaded
depending on which skin you are in it is easier to understand
in the cloud column, I only ever see an up arrow or nothing. that's it. I am not seeing all these other clouds and frankly, it sounds silly.

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Old 5th April 2013, 02:40   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
re: cloud icon column...

up arrow (aka upload icon) = not known to the cloud & if not uploaded to cloud hosting
I figured that's what it meant, but its an unnecessary indication of a negative. if the column is blank, that should indicate the item was not put into the cloud.

to do it this way just adds clutter to the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
no icon = known to the cloud and available on the local cloud client (even if it has a cloud hosted instance)
I don't follow the logic here. no icon in the column at all means its in the cloud, but as I said, this should be reversed, there should be a positive indication of something being in the cloud, and maybe a different icon meaning its both in the cloud, AND available to the client.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
full cloud icon = only available as a cloud hosted instance
I haven't seen that. when would that apply? when something is in the cloud but not simultaneously on the local device?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
half cloud = mix of cloud and local and other device instances
can you illustrate a real world example of this? I think I get it, but just to be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
partial cloud = not directly available on local cloud client and not available as a cloud hosted instance i.e. only present on another cloud client which is not always there like a WAFA install
I have only seen the up arrow or nothing, and so its a bit hard for me to envision all this, but again some real world illustration might help.

is the cloud meant to be able to stream things from one device to another, without the actual song bits stored on the cloud? meaning, is that one way this is envisioned as working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
clicking the cloud icon (or right-click -> cloud-sources sub-menu on a library item) shows a menu showing what cloud devices the file is known to relate to along with being able to upload / remove from a device.
i'm not following that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
additional there is a tooltip which gives an indication of device locations and what the up arrow means. and the column can be removed if it's annoying / deemed useless in the views.
the column itself is not annoying or useless, in fact its the opposite, its needed and necessary, and so that's why how its implemented is so important.

I just don't get the thinking that says its better to indicate the negative, while at the same time indicate nothing for the positive?

what else is done in that way?

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Old 5th April 2013, 04:01   #31
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ok i see what you mean about the arrows in the ml main list (not the cloud list)
if dro's list is right then there is a issue
as all my files show a arrow yet all are on the cloud
so technically all should be clouds
now in cloud view the icons are correct for files seen by cloud but are not uploaded as a empty cloud icon and when the files are on cloud as a full cloud

and i agree the icon is a little backwards
should have the up arrow meaning file has been uploaded to the cloud

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Old 5th April 2013, 04:09   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
ok i see what you mean about the arrows in the ml main list (not the cloud list)
right, I was speaking about the audio views in the nav tree under "Local Media" not "Cloud Sources"

I haven't spent much time under cloud sources since the cloud website itself isn't working well for me, but now I see some of these other clouds. still, its not working properly and takes forever to refresh its view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
if dro's list is right then there is a issue
as all my files show a arrow yet all are on the cloud
so technically all should be clouds
now in cloud view the icons are correct for files seen by cloud but are not uploaded as a empty cloud icon and when the files are on cloud as a full cloud
sounds like you are seeing some bugs i'm not, but i'm seeing enough of my own so I can't help you much.

maybe the way the arrows, clouds etc, all those icons work should be different depending if you are under Local Media or Cloud Sources. it might make sense to have the arrows showing the negative (not yet on the cloud) under cloud sources, but certainly not under local media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
and i agree the icon is a little backwards
should have the up arrow meaning file has been uploaded to the cloud
well, I didn't even get into that, but you're right. the idea that an up arrow is going to mean intuitively to someone that this is a file that COULD be uploaded to the cloud, is specious at best. obviously its not what I think, and its not what you thought either.

imo, under local media, just leaving it blank is best if it is not on the cloud server. an up arrow leads to confusion.

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Old 5th April 2013, 11:10   #33
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rob: the reason for the up arrow was that without it with how the states are wanted to be shown (as i've detailed) you had zero indication of what state a file is in with regards to being or not being in the cloud unless you looked at the cloud icon menu, etc.

before the up arrow was added, you only ever saw a blank icon for a file which is seen to be local in the main library views (which is not handled in the public beta builds) whereas the cloud source views show a greater range of the icons in use (but that's more from them only showing different states with respect to other cloud devices). and with other changes intended for the main library views, the other cloud icons are more likely to appear.

so due to how it all works, WAFA and the web client show things more as expected because (especially with the web client) they don't have most of the local files present and instead show the full and partial cloud icons most of the time. plus they are dedicated views whereas unless you're using the cloud sources views, the main library views are still heavily in-progress of being altered.

finally, there have been countless hours spent over the icon situation and as such this is what is deemed as wanted for the time being until reviewed / determined by those making the final product decisions that it needs to be changed. so there will not be any changes to the display logic unless i'm explicitly told to change it.
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Old 5th April 2013, 12:59   #34
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gets a little confusing i can agree
i was seeing half my ml showing arrows yet when you point at it says uploaded to cloud and in local library
then pointed at some that dont have icons and get the same message

is it possible my database is confused?
probable, who really knows

it could be possible that it got messed up when the laptop re did its database to see the files on a flash drive
which was supposed to be a exact copy of the music folder where the desktop sees its files
you would have thought both have the same exact metadata
but apparently that is not true

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Old 5th April 2013, 15:03   #35
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Hi robdog2004,

I tried to PM you, but it is not possible. Since you don't mind using embedded art, excuse me going a little OT. User & dev thinktink has recently provided a plug-in that lets Winamp's <Alt>+3 tag editor embed album art. You still need to download your own artwork, since Winamp no longer does that. See post #73 in the thread linked below for the link to the latest version of thinktink's plug-in.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=357457&page=2

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Old 5th April 2013, 23:51   #36
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already use the plugin
so yeah i know about it

for me embedding the art saves space
specially when you keep the image small for most mp3 players
including cell phones

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Old 6th April 2013, 15:54   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdog2004 View Post
for me embedding the art saves space
specially when you keep the image small for most mp3 players
including cell phones
If you are storing 2 or more songs from the same album and using the same image for each song, then using 1 image for the album uses less space than embedding the same image in each song.

I like to embed because I often don't use the same image for each song in an album. For me, looking at the same image over and over is boring, so I use different images of the artist and/or images related to the 'mood' of the songs.

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Old 7th April 2013, 19:02   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
rob: the reason for the up arrow was that without it with how the states are wanted to be shown (as i've detailed) you had zero indication of what state a file is in with regards to being or not being in the cloud unless you looked at the cloud icon menu, etc.
by that logic, you have zero indication of what state something is in when it is uploaded, since it shows nothing in that column AFTER its uploaded. (meaning, under that column under local media in the nav tree). but that doesn't make sense either, since obviously being blank in that column IS AN INDICATION, its just a totally counter intuitive indication, the way its currently implemented.

but that's not even the point. I am not trying to upset anyone or start an argument, I merely want the "powers that be" to hear me before committing to a terrible mistake in implementation.

do whatever you like, have any system of icons you want under "Cloud Sources" ...that's fine by me.

but please, PLEASE under "Local Media" do the sensible thing, and keep that column blank UNLESS something is uploaded to the cloud. putting an up arrow there not only clutters the screen for no reason, but as u have seen in just this thread, doesn't mean intuitively the same thing to everyone. its just a BAD IDEA. and then making it blank once something is uploaded, is even more senseless.

do blank, or a cloud icon. that makes sense. blank indicates the negative (no cloud relationship), and a cloud icon (or whatever u want) indicates the positive (uploaded or some other type of positive cloud relationship).

ps. in addition, u might have some kind of icon showing files that will not work on the cloud.

ROB:

it does sound like your winamp confused DBs, and storing the same pic multiple times in flies wastes space. I store it once per folder, (although I do include one backup in the folder too). besides, its the method native to winamp, ergo the cloud should support it, as google does.

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Old 7th April 2013, 20:42   #39
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My 2¢ worth re: File icons in the Media Library

If it is possible to click on the icon and upload the file to the cloud, either immediately or through some dialogue, then an up-arrow is appropriate.
But if the icon is just window-dressing and "unclickable", then it should be a cloud if the file was previously uploaded, with no icon otherwise.

For me, the up-arrow implies "click here to upload". Don't use if it's only function is informational.

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Old 7th April 2013, 20:52   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryerman View Post
If it is possible to click on the icon and upload the file to the cloud, either immediately or through some dialogue, then an up-arrow is appropriate.
that is how it works for the main library and cloud specific views with the cloud icon being functional so you can upload or remove or (when support is implemented) transfer between devices.
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