"I'm praying for you only, no more cry, no more cry"

rm' · 8th November 2002, 17:52

Anecdotal evidence over the past decade and a half or so has indicated that prayer can help stop (and even reverse) the progress of terminal illnesses such as cancer and cystic fibrosis. Both prayer by the patient, and by others on behalf of the patient has been shown to have an affect.

Why do you think this is? Do you think that if further studies are conducted into the subject, a clear link between prayer and healing will be determined?

pixiefied · 8th November 2002, 17:57

i have heard of that. some of it i think is b.s but i think its some sort of meditation.people are reaching deeper in their minds and dont realize it.they may have found a part of the 6th sense and dont know it.

sandb937 · 8th November 2002, 17:59

i think its because people are not just praying to be praying (playing church/religion). they have faith that they will be healed. god said ask and you shall receive. but its only cause god alows them to be healed.

pixiefied · 8th November 2002, 18:07

how do you know they are praying to god? maybe they are praying to the sickness to go away or they think they are praying to a god.i heard that monks pray for so long that the world around them could crash and they will never know it. thats how deep they get.if you think about it,everyone would start praying if they got a cold or if they suddenly became sick...but look how many die every year.so maybe its just a few people in this world that has to ability to heal or it just may be pure luck.

. - .... .- -. .... · 8th November 2002, 19:46

Power of the mind is an amazing thing. If you have faith enough to believe in a God that can heall all of your illneses, and you believe that all of your prayers are going to somehow put you in His favour, then the thought alone can have drastic effects on the body - at least, thats what I believe.

Cameron221 · 8th November 2002, 20:27

The mind is able to do amazing things.

Some1 · 8th November 2002, 20:42

It's just another example of the placebo effect, sometimes the mere belief that something will work is enough to make it actually work for whatever reason, and it doesn't matter if the beleif is in a sugar-pill which you have been told is the cure for cancer, or in prayer.

Orgone_Man · 8th November 2002, 20:55

I believe that along with studying the effects of prayer on patients, experts are also increasingly studying the effects of meditation on ill patients as well as healthy people.

eleet-2k2 · 8th November 2002, 21:08

Quote:

Originally posted by rm'
Anecdotal evidence over the past decade and a half or so has indicated that prayer can help stop (and even reverse) the progress of terminal illnesses such as cancer and cystic fibrosis. Both prayer by the patient, and by others on behalf of the patient has been shown to have an affect.

Why do you think this is? Do you think that if further studies are conducted into the subject, a clear link between prayer and healing will be determined?

I think the body holistically acts different if the person hopes in something. I can't really explain.

Some1 · 8th November 2002, 21:18

Quote:

I think the body holistically acts different if the person hopes in something. I can't really explain.

See "placebo effect"

fwgx · 8th November 2002, 21:21

Quote:

Originally posted by ethan_h
Power of the mind is an amazing thing. If you have faith enough to believe in a God that can heall all of your illneses, and you believe that all of your prayers are going to somehow put you in His favour, then the thought alone can have drastic effects on the body - at least, thats what I believe.

yup, see placebo affect too.

Orgone_Man · 8th November 2002, 21:34

hmm... I guess having a "placebo effect" is, in a sense, experiencing a mind over matter phenomenon. But, what does this actually constitute?

1. The placebo creates a new feeling towards the ailment (hope for releif or happiness....) so it could be considered a "mental distraction" from the ailment.
2. The placebo causes a person's stress to lower and the person becomes happy which causes a release of certain chemicals which could help aid a person's ailment.
3. The placebo creates in that person's mind a solid form of longing, or the person now focuses on his/her ailment becoming healed b/c the placebo has initialized this train of thought/will.

Perhaps, if number 3 is the case, this is evidence of some kind of "will energy" that is unknown to us or not publicly accepted. Who can know?

rm' · 8th November 2002, 22:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Orgone_Man
I believe that along with studying the effects of prayer on patients, experts are also increasingly studying the effects of meditation on ill patients as well as healthy people.

Definitely. Sorry for focussing entirely on prayer. Mind excerises have been shown to have tremendous effects. Visualising your leucocytes destroying cancerous cells, for example.

And you've also pointed out something else very interesting: why does a placebo effect have any affect at all? As you've stated, doesn't this point towards some mind over body phenomenon?

fwgx · 8th November 2002, 22:29

Your mind controls the body so it would seam natural that a healthy mind means a healthy body. Also For day to day stress and illness, not cancer etc, it is the feeling good that makes the differance. If you don't know your ill you don't care.

Some1 · 8th November 2002, 22:44

Quote:

As you've stated, doesn't this point towards some mind over body phenomenon?

Yes, indeed it does...I think I remember hearing something about how happy/relaxed people consistently have stronger immune systems than those who are stressed out, and it makes sense that prayer, meditation, or the beleif that you are on some new "wonder-drug" that will cure whatever ails you all serve to lessen stress. I wonder if keeping somebody heavily sedated would have the same effect...

Quote:

Sorry for focussing entirely on prayer. Mind excerises have been shown to have tremendous effects. Visualising your leucocytes destroying cancerous cells, for example.

You also forgot music...I've found that when I get sick, playing some nice, loud music helps me start feeling better and can cut my average recovery time almost in half.

dollerspark · 8th November 2002, 22:47

Placebo effect. That pretty much sums it up right there. The mind can do incredible things...

Orgone_Man · 9th November 2002, 00:07

I can tell all of you one thing for sure....

After practicing meditation, I can definately tell in my day to day life when another person is agitated or depressed and trying not to show it. It goes vice versa for people who are happy and excited. I have definately noticed an increase in my empathic perception.... perhaps even more than two-fold.

8th November 2002, 17:52	#1
rm' Banned Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 11,361	"I'm praying for you only, no more cry, no more cry" Anecdotal evidence over the past decade and a half or so has indicated that prayer can help stop (and even reverse) the progress of terminal illnesses such as cancer and cystic fibrosis. Both prayer by the patient, and by others on behalf of the patient has been shown to have an affect. Why do you think this is? Do you think that if further studies are conducted into the subject, a clear link between prayer and healing will be determined?

8th November 2002, 17:57	#2
pixiefied Mother Trucker Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: in the forest Posts: 3,493	i have heard of that. some of it i think is b.s but i think its some sort of meditation.people are reaching deeper in their minds and dont realize it.they may have found a part of the 6th sense and dont know it. "Well, got to love you and leave you, need to go get into the shower and rub my hard naked body all over with soapy bubbles, I'll be back later to carry on playing.... It'll take you some time to get over the image of me naked in the shower......mind you don't masturbate to hard thinking about it...." - Mr.Jones

8th November 2002, 18:07	#4
pixiefied Mother Trucker Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: in the forest Posts: 3,493	how do you know they are praying to god? maybe they are praying to the sickness to go away or they think they are praying to a god.i heard that monks pray for so long that the world around them could crash and they will never know it. thats how deep they get.if you think about it,everyone would start praying if they got a cold or if they suddenly became sick...but look how many die every year.so maybe its just a few people in this world that has to ability to heal or it just may be pure luck. "Well, got to love you and leave you, need to go get into the shower and rub my hard naked body all over with soapy bubbles, I'll be back later to carry on playing.... It'll take you some time to get over the image of me naked in the shower......mind you don't masturbate to hard thinking about it...." - Mr.Jones

8th November 2002, 19:46	#5
. - .... .- -. .... Backpacking Moderator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: საქართველო (Georgia) Posts: 10,098	Power of the mind is an amazing thing. If you have faith enough to believe in a God that can heall all of your illneses, and you believe that all of your prayers are going to somehow put you in His favour, then the thought alone can have drastic effects on the body - at least, thats what I believe. Like my photography? Buy some here....

8th November 2002, 20:27	#6
Cameron221 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 955	The mind is able to do amazing things. "These are the rules. If you dont like them, I got others" [img]http://metallichica.***********/yribbon.gif[/img] #unreal2 chat: mIRC - irc://irc.**.org/unreal2

8th November 2002, 17:59	#3
sandb937 Major Dude Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 818	i think its because people are not just praying to be praying (playing church/religion). they have faith that they will be healed. god said ask and you shall receive. but its only cause god alows them to be healed.

8th November 2002, 20:42	#7
Some1 Forum King Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 14th Street Posts: (-1)^ï¿½ Posts: 2,236	It's just another example of the placebo effect, sometimes the mere belief that something will work is enough to make it actually work for whatever reason, and it doesn't matter if the beleif is in a sugar-pill which you have been told is the cure for cancer, or in prayer.

8th November 2002, 20:55	#8
Orgone_Man Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 1,235	I believe that along with studying the effects of prayer on patients, experts are also increasingly studying the effects of meditation on ill patients as well as healthy people.

8th November 2002, 21:34	#12
Orgone_Man Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 1,235	hmm... I guess having a "placebo effect" is, in a sense, experiencing a mind over matter phenomenon. But, what does this actually constitute? 1. The placebo creates a new feeling towards the ailment (hope for releif or happiness....) so it could be considered a "mental distraction" from the ailment. 2. The placebo causes a person's stress to lower and the person becomes happy which causes a release of certain chemicals which could help aid a person's ailment. 3. The placebo creates in that person's mind a solid form of longing, or the person now focuses on his/her ailment becoming healed b/c the placebo has initialized this train of thought/will. Perhaps, if number 3 is the case, this is evidence of some kind of "will energy" that is unknown to us or not publicly accepted. Who can know?

8th November 2002, 22:29	#14
fwgx Rudolf the Red. (Forum King) Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 9,315	Your mind controls the body so it would seam natural that a healthy mind means a healthy body. Also For day to day stress and illness, not cancer etc, it is the feeling good that makes the differance. If you don't know your ill you don't care. .: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:. "We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."

8th November 2002, 22:47	#16
dollerspark Major Dude Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wh!te Tr@sh Hell (AZ) Posts: 708	Placebo effect. That pretty much sums it up right there. The mind can do incredible things... "We are fortunate: we are alive; we are powerful; the welfare of our civilization and our species is in our hands. If we do not speak for Earth, who will? If we are not committed to our own survival, who will be?" -Carl Sagan

9th November 2002, 00:07	#17
Orgone_Man Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 1,235	I can tell all of you one thing for sure.... After practicing meditation, I can definately tell in my day to day life when another person is agitated or depressed and trying not to show it. It goes vice versa for people who are happy and excited. I have definately noticed an increase in my empathic perception.... perhaps even more than two-fold.

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