Green Day says no to war w/ Iraq

QHOBBES · 22nd November 2002, 03:20

Green Day's Billie Joe Armstrong recently left an audio message on their
offical site , www.greenday.com , asking visitors and fans to head
over to www.greenday.net (a fan site) and sign a petition started by
Green Day Fans against the war on Iraq (or the war for peace as W. likes
to call it). So far "we" (the Green Day fans) have 1043 online sigs and thats
just after one day. I encourage anyone, whether or not a Green Day fan,
to head over to http://www.petitiononline.com/abcd1039/petition.html
and sign this petition if you are against this useless war.

Now here's my real question, have any other artist set up such things
on there pages asking fans not to support the war on Iraq?

TheOrgasmicMe · 22nd November 2002, 03:25

yay! it is now 1058! including me.

InvisableMan · 22nd November 2002, 03:58

damn hippy bitches. im fucking sick and tired of you people constantly trying to throw your chicken-shit asses in the progress of the US armed forces.

insomniac · 22nd November 2002, 04:11

Hell no.

Xerxes · 22nd November 2002, 06:52

Quote:

Originally posted by QHOBBES

Now here's my real question, have any other artist set up such things
on there pages asking fans not to support the war on Iraq?

Barbara Striesand?

james · 22nd November 2002, 06:58

Tell me why you object to a possible (inevitable?) war on Iraq?

Some things just have to be done...

Montana · 22nd November 2002, 11:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Herbster
Tell me why you object to a possible (inevitable?) war on Iraq?

Some things just have to be done...

george w bush needs to handle his own business and not start a war in the middle east, if he does it then he is begging for for a 2nd 9/11-type attack, war is not the answer to get peace in the middleeast

i think that bush is kinda angry that he still hasn't found usama bin ladin and his popularity has lowered so he chose to pick on iraq. kinda cowardly done actually

hgnis · 22nd November 2002, 12:53

Why should there not be war now?
How many of you have ever seen it first hand huh? No, I am not speaking about playing DOA, Resident Evil, Onimusha etc.

I do not think America is ready yet for a drawn out middle east combat situation given that oil deal or not, the Russians and Chinese still fully support the Iraqis (unofficially). Iraq's unpredictability in the market is one of the factors preventing complete domination of the world's fuel resources by the West....
True, their support is not critical for victory but their sale of "resources" to the Middle East has considerably build up the "defensive" strength of several of the Middle Eastern states and this has the potential for a lengthy conflict.

You people better be damn sure you're ready to see the bodybags piling up, I for one am not. Just go to the WTC site and see the barricaded hole there.
I object to sending the disaffected youth (American and Middle Eastern) to fight something created by politicians, but I will not sign.

stttafffy · 22nd November 2002, 14:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Montana

george w bush needs to handle his own business and not start a war in the middle east, if he does it then he is begging for for a 2nd 9/11-type attack,

i think further large scale terrorist attacks are inevitable. everybody hates us :P but for real, i would rather a war could be avoided while accomplishing all of Bush's goals. but that is an idealist POV. if we go to war, lets make em hurt bad. anihilation is the name of the game

Bilbo Baggins · 22nd November 2002, 15:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Montana

george w bush needs to handle his own business and not start a war in the middle east, if he does it then he is begging for for a 2nd 9/11-type attack, war is not the answer to get peace in the middleeast

i think that bush is kinda angry that he still hasn't found usama bin ladin and his popularity has lowered so he chose to pick on iraq. kinda cowardly done actually

Although the fact that Saddam Hussein has used chemical weapons against his own people, and is activly looking for the technology to be able to deploy these weapons to a longer range means that we shouldn't fear him?

The US is not just trying to control the weapons in the middle east though. Look at the Oil embargo they recently slapped on North Korea (along with South Korea and Japan). The US is only going forward in such a way because it has the military power and resources to enable it do do this. Other nations (say those in Europe) have much smaller armies, mainly because the people of Europe suffered close on 100 years of war in the last century, and want to live in peace for a bit now.

binary hero · 22nd November 2002, 17:58

well, if greenday say so, we must listen to them/

c2R · 22nd November 2002, 18:10

I like Green Day, but there's no way that I'd sign a petition objecting to war on Iraq, just because they ask.

It's probably fine for you Americans, living more than four thousand miles away.... however, if allowed to develop nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons unchecked, Iraq could in a short period of time be able to threaten or attack EU member states. He's also proved himself as an "evil" person, by invading and attacking other countires, and his own citizens. The other factor as I've mentioned before is that the oil must be allowed to flow.

I think that if Iraq doesn't abide by the terms and conditions of having weapons inspectors return to the country, with full access then the rest of the interational community should ensure by any means necessary that the threat to our security is eliminated. Let us not forget that the Iraqis started it all in the first place, by invading Kuwait. The allied forces were the victors, and rather than dividing Iraq (as happened with Germany, among other countries) they let it survive, with Saddam Hussain continuing as leader; when they could just as easily have occupied the country. Iraq is allowed to continue to exist in it's current form by the conditions laid down after the Gulf war. If it disregards those conditions, it should fear the consequences.

J. Burnaway · 22nd November 2002, 19:03

Yay! U.S. foreign policy will from here on out be driven by a sell-out pop/punk band!

Does this mean that George Bush gets to write songs for their next album?

InvisableMan · 22nd November 2002, 19:23

i also say that people who do not live in the usa shouldnt give their opinion on how bush should run things

John M · 22nd November 2002, 20:21

wow, Billie Joe Armstrong can put my balls in his mouth.

seriously, dont use all your adoring fans as political pawns.

J. Burnaway · 22nd November 2002, 22:00

I can just see the public service announcement now:

"As a high school dropout who knows how to play guitar and write songs about masturbation, I urge you to join me in whatever cause I happen to choose. Today's cause is (fill in the blank)"

Gonzotek · 22nd November 2002, 22:11

So muscians should just stick to making music, then? John Lennon would be proud. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the sentiments, or whether or not you like the band, I say Green Day deserves some respect for actually saying *something* about the state of the world. I DO NOT feel that Green Day fans should just sign because Green Day asks them to, but I do think that it's a good thing to have an opinion on something and to ask other people who share that opinion to support you.

-=Gonzotek=-

btw, I won't be signing, because I feel that this war is inevitable, whether or not Bush is in charge. The situation has been escalating for much, much longer than Bush has been in office.

J. Burnaway · 22nd November 2002, 22:42

They can say what they want, and they are free to do so, just as we are free to make fun of them for thinking that their position as producers of pop music gives them some added clout in areas they aren't specialists in. I think for the most part the average musician or movie star is so self-obsessed that they think we will care what they think, when in reality, they are no more or less intelligent than the average person you might walk up to on the street. People need to formulate their own opinions, and not be told what to think by Barbra Striesand (left wing) or Bruce Willis (right wing).

Kinetik* · 22nd November 2002, 23:31

Rather you're a pop star, a punk rocker, or a fucking homeless person, you have a say in the way this country's run. Why should we go to war with Iraq? Okay, let me get this straight, My teacher says we're the leaders in the "Free Peaceful" world, so the Iraqi's shouldn't be allowed to have Nuclear Weapons. So I asked. "Okay, so we're the leaders of the FREE, PEACEFUL World, so we should be allowed to have Nuclear weapons, when they can't. They haven't openly attacked us in the last 10 years, and if it wasn't for America they wouldn't have fought us in the first place. We GAVE Them the guns they're using now, 10 years ago." Why should I go to war and die for some president who made a Mistake? I'll be GOD DAMNED, if I'm dying for someone elses mistake. If anyone should fucking die it should be George Bush Sr. We die for their 'Causes' for their 'ideals' and for their war, but Why? Think about it, Why do we fight? For freedom? Isn't it us who's trying to take away their lives by killing their men? They're women? And they're youth? What makes us any different from them? skin color? Ideals? politics? The way our country's run? We're all Human beings, and we're all ran by leaders who in the long run, don't fight for the Wants of us all. True, they can't do what's right for everybody, but not going to war with Iraq would be better than going to war with them. We kill millions of Iraqi's, the ONLY Difference between us and Terrorists is that we're OPEN, about our practices, we LET people know we're killing people, and we have the power to stop any group of people that challenges us.

Here are a few links I find Interesting:

http://www.anti-flag.com/anti-flag/102102.htm

http://www.peace-action.org/

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/

http://www.anti-flag.com/anti-flag/nytimes.html

I've said what I felt I needed to say. Make fun of my opnion, call me a hippie, whatever you need to, but just think about it, before you do, Fascist.

patroclus22 · 23rd November 2002, 01:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Xerxes

Barbara Striesand?

And "Hanoi" Jane Fonda. Don't forget her.

InvisableMan · 23rd November 2002, 02:27

@ Fazer... typical move to dig yourself into a hole and defend yourself by calling anyone who doesnt agree with your opinion a fascist

J. Burnaway · 23rd November 2002, 03:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Fazer
Rather you're a pop star, a punk rocker, or a fucking homeless person, you have a say in the way this country's run.

I'm not saying pop stars shouldn't have a say in how this country is run - I just think their say is about as valuable as your average Magic 8 ball, and people who act on something just because a pop star tells them to need help.

Quote:

Why should we go to war with Iraq? Okay, let me get this straight, My teacher says we're the leaders in the "Free Peaceful" world, so the Iraqi's shouldn't be allowed to have Nuclear Weapons. So I asked. "Okay, so we're the leaders of the FREE, PEACEFUL World, so we should be allowed to have Nuclear weapons, when they can't. They haven't openly attacked us in the last 10 years, and if it wasn't for America they wouldn't have fought us in the first place.

Perhaps you are correct - funding, aiding and abetting terrorists is seldom done in the open. And it was Iraq invading Kuwait that started many of the problems, in a ill-advised power grab by Saddam Hussien.

Quote:

We GAVE Them the guns they're using now, 10 years ago.

Huh? Actually, most of their stuff is Russian, and we destroyed a lot of that 10 years ago, after they invaded Kuwait.

Quote:

Why should I go to war and die for some president who made a Mistake? I'll be GOD DAMNED, if I'm dying for someone elses mistake.

I don't recall anyone asking you to. Military service is voluntary - there isn't a draft.

Quote:

If anyone should fucking die it should be George Bush Sr. We die for their 'Causes' for their 'ideals' and for their war, but Why? Think about it, Why do we fight? For freedom? Isn't it us who's trying to take away their lives by killing their men? They're women? And they're youth?

Actually, I believe the goal is to destroy their army, not the rest of the people there

Quote:

What makes us any different from them? skin color? Ideals? politics? The way our country's run? We're all Human beings, and we're all ran by leaders who in the long run, don't fight for the Wants of us all.

Maybe what is different is that Saddam Hussien has used his poison gas on religious minorities he doesn't like, and he wants to get ahold of more of those and similar weapons? So in a way, you are right - what's different is the way their country is run. The U.S. has freedom of religion as a basis of government, where as Iraq uses it as a basis to kill its own citizens.

Quote:

True, they can't do what's right for everybody, but not going to war with Iraq would be better than going to war with them. We kill millions of Iraqi's, the ONLY Difference between us and Terrorists is that we're OPEN, about our practices, we LET people know we're killing people, and we have the power to stop any group of people that challenges us.

If more than a few thousand Iraqis are killed, I'd be surprised - and nearly all of those will be soldiers.

Quote:

I've said what I felt I needed to say. Make fun of my opnion, call me a hippie, whatever you need to, but just think about it, before you do, Fascist.

I'm not going to call you a hippie. You are entitled to you opinion, without me belittling your arguments by calling you names. Pity you don't give those who disagree with you the same courtesy.

dollerspark · 23rd November 2002, 04:02

A band expresses their opinion and suddenly everyone jumps all over them and those who agree? Loosen up people, seriously. They have a right to an opinion, and if they want to start a petition, then let them (that is kinda one of the freedoms in this country, if you didn't know). If people agree let them sign. If people sign just because they like GreenDay, that's a different story.

I don't support our involvement in this war. It doesn't take a genious to see what kind of trouble is already over there. Why the hell should we get involved? Because they flew planes into a few of our buildings? I'm not trying to downplay 9/11, but it's stupid to have more American blood shed over an ongoing conflict in the messed-up middle east. Then we have all of the Iraqi allies suddenly taking the chance to fight us, or at least stand against us, as well.

And did anyone think that maybe they were trying to pull the US into war? Maybe the terrorists had a greater motive behind their horrible acts? I, personally, just don't see them committing this unwarranted act with no hidden motive, I just don't. Those people may not be sane, but they're not stupid. They're obviously wanting to go to war with us, and dumbass dubya is falling right into their trap.

Although not a huge fan, I say kudos to Green Day for expressing their opinion, and I hope their petition does well.

Kinetik* · 23rd November 2002, 04:17

It's not some much the people who disagree with me in General who are fascists. It's the people that don't have a solid argument for going to war with Iraq. It's the close minded people, who just want to nuke all the "ragheads" as I've heard. Just because they're more brown, or have different cultures, Like my teacher, "We should wipe Iraq off the face of the earth." That's what I consider a fascist. Understood, no, we didn't gas our people, but is it not true we have done a bit of the same, to a select few of our own? Area 51, it can be seen from Airplanes going to and from Las Vegas, if I remember corretly, and people have been diagnosed with Cancers, like certain cases, I forget the names, they all had the same name. We poisoned them, (Our government) and then when they tried to sue the US Government in court, the Judge said that Area 51 didn't exist, and nothing was done about it. The people had cancers, and our government knew about it, did Area 51 exist? obviously so, but did the government deny the obvious? YES, and they could do so again, and they probably are.

About the draft, I wouldn't die for this country, not if forced to. Not if there was a draft, I'd flee, i'll be the first to admit that. I admit, they're dictators, and they'd kill us all if they could, at the drop of a hat, but what makes us different is that we're "better than them." As a country, and a whole.

And as far as the killing over religion issue, you're right. Iraq kills those who contradict their religions, while we kill without prejudice.

I don't know, my brain's racked, I'm going to sleep.

InvisableMan · 23rd November 2002, 04:22

Quote:

Originally posted by J. Burnaway

I'm not going to call you a hippie. You are entitled to you opinion, without me belittling your arguments by calling you names. Pity you don't give those who disagree with you the same courtesy.

in other words

Quote:

Originally posted by InvisableMan
@ Fazer... typical move to dig yourself into a hole and defend yourself by calling anyone who doesnt agree with your opinion a fascist

Quote:

Originally posted by dollerspark
Maybe the terrorists had a greater motive behind their horrible acts?

doubtful.

I am Jesus · 23rd November 2002, 04:37

Has war ever solved anything? I think it makes things worse.

QHOBBES · 23rd November 2002, 04:45

what he^ said. please read http://www.angelfire.com/az/qhobbes/...waronpeace.txt
i tried to stop a war by getting publicity for a petition but it just
started a flame war. history repeates itself again. mods/admins please
whack this thread. obviously peace can never solve anything.

22nd November 2002, 03:20	#1
QHOBBES Banned Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: I H8 Mods Posts: 1,405	Green Day says no to war w/ Iraq Green Day's Billie Joe Armstrong recently left an audio message on their offical site , www.greenday.com , asking visitors and fans to head over to www.greenday.net (a fan site) and sign a petition started by Green Day Fans against the war on Iraq (or the war for peace as W. likes to call it). So far "we" (the Green Day fans) have 1043 online sigs and thats just after one day. I encourage anyone, whether or not a Green Day fan, to head over to http://www.petitiononline.com/abcd1039/petition.html and sign this petition if you are against this useless war. Now here's my real question, have any other artist set up such things on there pages asking fans not to support the war on Iraq?

22nd November 2002, 03:25	#2
TheOrgasmicMe Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico Posts: 323	yay! it is now 1058! including me. Sean k. - Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

22nd November 2002, 06:58	#6
james Forum PFY (Major Dude) Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: WR3 or NG7 Posts: 6.2+3i Posts: 1,700	Tell me why you object to a possible (inevitable?) war on Iraq? Some things just have to be done... He uses statistics like a drunk uses lamp-posts: for support, not illumination.

22nd November 2002, 12:53	#8
hgnis Hobbit Humper Forum King Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: banned camp Posts: 4,098	Why should there not be war now? How many of you have ever seen it first hand huh? No, I am not speaking about playing DOA, Resident Evil, Onimusha etc. I do not think America is ready yet for a drawn out middle east combat situation given that oil deal or not, the Russians and Chinese still fully support the Iraqis (unofficially). Iraq's unpredictability in the market is one of the factors preventing complete domination of the world's fuel resources by the West.... True, their support is not critical for victory but their sale of "resources" to the Middle East has considerably build up the "defensive" strength of several of the Middle Eastern states and this has the potential for a lengthy conflict. You people better be damn sure you're ready to see the bodybags piling up, I for one am not. Just go to the WTC site and see the barricaded hole there. I object to sending the disaffected youth (American and Middle Eastern) to fight something created by politicians, but I will not sign. I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick. Reality bites <3

22nd November 2002, 18:10	#12
c2R Stereotype? (Forum King) Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ware, England Posts: 3,511	I like Green Day, but there's no way that I'd sign a petition objecting to war on Iraq, just because they ask. It's probably fine for you Americans, living more than four thousand miles away.... however, if allowed to develop nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons unchecked, Iraq could in a short period of time be able to threaten or attack EU member states. He's also proved himself as an "evil" person, by invading and attacking other countires, and his own citizens. The other factor as I've mentioned before is that the oil must be allowed to flow. I think that if Iraq doesn't abide by the terms and conditions of having weapons inspectors return to the country, with full access then the rest of the interational community should ensure by any means necessary that the threat to our security is eliminated. Let us not forget that the Iraqis started it all in the first place, by invading Kuwait. The allied forces were the victors, and rather than dividing Iraq (as happened with Germany, among other countries) they let it survive, with Saddam Hussain continuing as leader; when they could just as easily have occupied the country. Iraq is allowed to continue to exist in it's current form by the conditions laid down after the Gulf war. If it disregards those conditions, it should fear the consequences. lights out for darker skies # forums.winamp.com boinc team # tms

22nd November 2002, 03:58	#3
InvisableMan Ninja Master! (Forum King) Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hotel California Posts: 4,325	damn hippy bitches. im fucking sick and tired of you people constantly trying to throw your chicken-shit asses in the progress of the US armed forces.

22nd November 2002, 04:11	#4
insomniac Major Dude Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 58,409,042 Posts: 1,614	Hell no.

22nd November 2002, 17:58	#11
binary hero Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 7,004	well, if greenday say so, we must listen to them/

22nd November 2002, 19:03	#13
J. Burnaway Forum King Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,537	Yay! U.S. foreign policy will from here on out be driven by a sell-out pop/punk band! Does this mean that George Bush gets to write songs for their next album?

22nd November 2002, 19:23	#14
InvisableMan Ninja Master! (Forum King) Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hotel California Posts: 4,325	i also say that people who do not live in the usa shouldnt give their opinion on how bush should run things

22nd November 2002, 20:21	#15
John M Puts the Cuss in General Discussions (Forum King) Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cincy, Ohio Posts: 3,624	wow, Billie Joe Armstrong can put my balls in his mouth. seriously, dont use all your adoring fans as political pawns. missyob made me post this.

22nd November 2002, 22:00	#16
J. Burnaway Forum King Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,537	I can just see the public service announcement now: "As a high school dropout who knows how to play guitar and write songs about masturbation, I urge you to join me in whatever cause I happen to choose. Today's cause is (fill in the blank)"

22nd November 2002, 22:11	#17
Gonzotek Gunslinger Join Date: May 2000 Location: Terminus Posts: 4,693	So muscians should just stick to making music, then? John Lennon would be proud. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the sentiments, or whether or not you like the band, I say Green Day deserves some respect for actually saying something about the state of the world. I DO NOT feel that Green Day fans should just sign because Green Day asks them to, but I do think that it's a good thing to have an opinion on something and to ask other people who share that opinion to support you. -=Gonzotek=- btw, I won't be signing, because I feel that this war is inevitable, whether or not Bush is in charge. The situation has been escalating for much, much longer than Bush has been in office. I was away for a while. But I'm feeling much better now.

22nd November 2002, 22:42	#18
J. Burnaway Forum King Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,537	They can say what they want, and they are free to do so, just as we are free to make fun of them for thinking that their position as producers of pop music gives them some added clout in areas they aren't specialists in. I think for the most part the average musician or movie star is so self-obsessed that they think we will care what they think, when in reality, they are no more or less intelligent than the average person you might walk up to on the street. People need to formulate their own opinions, and not be told what to think by Barbra Striesand (left wing) or Bruce Willis (right wing).

22nd November 2002, 23:31	#19
Kinetik* Forum Antagonist (Major Dude) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Collective Rectum Posts: 1,153	Rather you're a pop star, a punk rocker, or a fucking homeless person, you have a say in the way this country's run. Why should we go to war with Iraq? Okay, let me get this straight, My teacher says we're the leaders in the "Free Peaceful" world, so the Iraqi's shouldn't be allowed to have Nuclear Weapons. So I asked. "Okay, so we're the leaders of the FREE, PEACEFUL World, so we should be allowed to have Nuclear weapons, when they can't. They haven't openly attacked us in the last 10 years, and if it wasn't for America they wouldn't have fought us in the first place. We GAVE Them the guns they're using now, 10 years ago." Why should I go to war and die for some president who made a Mistake? I'll be GOD DAMNED, if I'm dying for someone elses mistake. If anyone should fucking die it should be George Bush Sr. We die for their 'Causes' for their 'ideals' and for their war, but Why? Think about it, Why do we fight? For freedom? Isn't it us who's trying to take away their lives by killing their men? They're women? And they're youth? What makes us any different from them? skin color? Ideals? politics? The way our country's run? We're all Human beings, and we're all ran by leaders who in the long run, don't fight for the Wants of us all. True, they can't do what's right for everybody, but not going to war with Iraq would be better than going to war with them. We kill millions of Iraqi's, the ONLY Difference between us and Terrorists is that we're OPEN, about our practices, we LET people know we're killing people, and we have the power to stop any group of people that challenges us. Here are a few links I find Interesting: http://www.anti-flag.com/anti-flag/102102.htm http://www.peace-action.org/ http://www.unitedforpeace.org/ http://www.anti-flag.com/anti-flag/nytimes.html I've said what I felt I needed to say. Make fun of my opnion, call me a hippie, whatever you need to, but just think about it, before you do, Fascist. Procrastinators of the world unite!... Tomorrow!

23rd November 2002, 02:27	#21
InvisableMan Ninja Master! (Forum King) Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hotel California Posts: 4,325	@ Fazer... typical move to dig yourself into a hole and defend yourself by calling anyone who doesnt agree with your opinion a fascist

23rd November 2002, 04:02	#23
dollerspark Major Dude Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wh!te Tr@sh Hell (AZ) Posts: 708	A band expresses their opinion and suddenly everyone jumps all over them and those who agree? Loosen up people, seriously. They have a right to an opinion, and if they want to start a petition, then let them (that is kinda one of the freedoms in this country, if you didn't know). If people agree let them sign. If people sign just because they like GreenDay, that's a different story. I don't support our involvement in this war. It doesn't take a genious to see what kind of trouble is already over there. Why the hell should we get involved? Because they flew planes into a few of our buildings? I'm not trying to downplay 9/11, but it's stupid to have more American blood shed over an ongoing conflict in the messed-up middle east. Then we have all of the Iraqi allies suddenly taking the chance to fight us, or at least stand against us, as well. And did anyone think that maybe they were trying to pull the US into war? Maybe the terrorists had a greater motive behind their horrible acts? I, personally, just don't see them committing this unwarranted act with no hidden motive, I just don't. Those people may not be sane, but they're not stupid. They're obviously wanting to go to war with us, and dumbass dubya is falling right into their trap. Although not a huge fan, I say kudos to Green Day for expressing their opinion, and I hope their petition does well. "We are fortunate: we are alive; we are powerful; the welfare of our civilization and our species is in our hands. If we do not speak for Earth, who will? If we are not committed to our own survival, who will be?" -Carl Sagan

23rd November 2002, 04:17	#24
Kinetik* Forum Antagonist (Major Dude) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Collective Rectum Posts: 1,153	It's not some much the people who disagree with me in General who are fascists. It's the people that don't have a solid argument for going to war with Iraq. It's the close minded people, who just want to nuke all the "ragheads" as I've heard. Just because they're more brown, or have different cultures, Like my teacher, "We should wipe Iraq off the face of the earth." That's what I consider a fascist. Understood, no, we didn't gas our people, but is it not true we have done a bit of the same, to a select few of our own? Area 51, it can be seen from Airplanes going to and from Las Vegas, if I remember corretly, and people have been diagnosed with Cancers, like certain cases, I forget the names, they all had the same name. We poisoned them, (Our government) and then when they tried to sue the US Government in court, the Judge said that Area 51 didn't exist, and nothing was done about it. The people had cancers, and our government knew about it, did Area 51 exist? obviously so, but did the government deny the obvious? YES, and they could do so again, and they probably are. About the draft, I wouldn't die for this country, not if forced to. Not if there was a draft, I'd flee, i'll be the first to admit that. I admit, they're dictators, and they'd kill us all if they could, at the drop of a hat, but what makes us different is that we're "better than them." As a country, and a whole. And as far as the killing over religion issue, you're right. Iraq kills those who contradict their religions, while we kill without prejudice. I don't know, my brain's racked, I'm going to sleep. Procrastinators of the world unite!... Tomorrow!

23rd November 2002, 04:37	#26
I am Jesus Major Dude Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Your mom Posts: 1,555	Has war ever solved anything? I think it makes things worse.

23rd November 2002, 04:45	#27
QHOBBES Banned Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: I H8 Mods Posts: 1,405	what he^ said. please read http://www.angelfire.com/az/qhobbes/...waronpeace.txt i tried to stop a war by getting publicity for a petition but it just started a flame war. history repeates itself again. mods/admins please whack this thread. obviously peace can never solve anything.

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