Coder Credit

[dlinkwit27]

I was looking around the skins of the site and of the forums, and noticing that majority of skins seem to have a seperate coder, I thought that it would be only right for these coders to get teh credit they deserve.

What I am suggesting is a new type of form to fill out when a skin is submitted. Instead of the skin being by whoever uplaods it, why not have two feields (Graphics by:, Coded by in which the uploader could put who coded and did teh graphics. This way both people get the credit they deserve without having to get second rate credit in a comment. If wanted, you could have a third automatic frield that would show "uploaded by:".

I think that not only would this allow both people who were involved in the making of the skin to get equal credit, but it could also help with "rips" if a user wishes to uplaod a skin that they found on a different site. The skin be be done by the proper author, but uplaoded by someone else. This way the uploaded isn't actidently taking credit for a skin they are simply trying to share with the winamp community.

I hope this gets put into action because I really think this is a good idea. What do you all think of it (vote)?

[Wildrose-Wally]

Originally posted by dlinkwit27
I think that not only would this allow both people who were involved in the making of the skin to get equal credit, but it could also help with "rips" if a user wishes to uplaod a skin that they found on a different site. The skin be be done by the proper author, but uplaoded by someone else. This way the uploaded isn't actidently taking credit for a skin they are simply trying to share with the winamp community.

This is the worst reason for your proposed changes. A person who did NOT make the skin should NEVER upload it, no matter if the world gets deprived of that skin. If the original author had wanted to publish it here, he would have done so. You DO NOT have the right to second guess him.

Apart from that, there are enough problems with the current site already, no real reason to code more problems into it. The person who uploads the skin is usually the one who did the graphics, he can and should give the proper credit to the coder(s), although it would also be perfectly acceptable if the coder uploads the skin and the graphics artist is mentioned in the credits.
Another good way to do it is to open an account for both the coder and the artist together, that way they can both be bothered getting the virus e-mails for the rest of their lives.

[Plague]

yea, I'm all for it..
I doubt it will happen though, you know we've been asking for a separate section for AVS presets (perhaps any type of preset) instead of having them in the components section, cos it get's really hard to find the actual components like it is now.. But nothing has happened and there's little chance of anything to ever happen in that matter..

edit:
heh, yea the virus mails are a bitch, I've gotten ALOT of them, several thousand of them, since I submitted my e-mail address to winamp.com. That's a really bad thing. I've stopped nearly all of them but sometimes one or two slips through dispite my eforts to stop them.

I also agree 100% that people who DIDN'T make the skin shouldn't be allowed to upload it.

-Plague

[dlinkwit27]

Originally posted by wildrose-wally
This is the worst reason for your proposed changes. A person who did NOT make the skin should NEVER upload it, no matter if the world gets deprived of that skin. If the original author had wanted to publish it here, he would have done so. You DO NOT have the right to second guess him.

You make a good point about that. It just seems to me that the coders are overlooked, and they deserve their own part on the page. Myself, I don't really read the comments by the author. I judge mainly from the screen shot and by who made it (if it is by a trusted name I know it'll be good, and no need to look at the extras). It seems that the coders are all behind the scenes with no respect. The only coder I know of in here are HH, Iplaythespoons, and RPeter (i think he codes ). I know many more skinners. Vibe, Neko, I knew IPlay and Rpeter thru ther sknis first, mc^^^ ect. If y'all don't want it, that's fine, I was just thought it'd be neat. And Plauge has a good point as well. If AVS presets can't get their own section, wish me luck gettnit this thru. but....skinner.exe skins got their own section in WA2, so who knows?

[Plague]

/me is a long time coder..
been coding maki and xml since the wa3 alphas..

-Plague

[dlinkwit27]

Originally posted by ThePlague
/me is a long time coder..
been coding maki and xml since the wa3 alphas..

-Plague

see? now wouldn't it be nice to have your own section so you could get a lil' more credit for all ur hard work?

[thepyr0x]

meh
I know what I've done
the people who actually give a rat's ass (in other words, the forumers) know what I've done

that's good enough for me

[dlinkwit27]

im a forumer, been round longer than you actually, but I still do't know. I spose I never realyl paid attention till recently, but still!...

[Plague]

see? now wouldn't it be nice to have your own section so you could get a lil' more credit for all ur hard work?

yea I agree completely with you.
I have gotten credit for both X-Slant and Opal Redemption in the authors comments and if it would be possible, I'd be listed as one of the authors too.. So your suggestion would enable that..
I've had a really good cooperation with both of them and I'm currently working on a new skin with the author of X-Slant.

Something the original coders DON'T get official credit for though, is the small/separate scripts that have been made and posted on the forums for anyone to use..
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it sure would have been nice to get credit for them whenever they are used..

I mean, with teh graphics, you see instantly who made it, but noone knows who made what code and how long he/she worked on it, and also if there were several coders on the same project and in that case which script was made by which coder, etc...

-Plague

[thepyr0x]

yeah, a lot of people have been around longer than I have. in fact I still have no idea how I actually racked up the major dude title...but I'm not complaining

there are only 2 times when I could ever care about people knowing that I coded a skin
1. when I'm bragging...for obvious reasons
2. when someone tries to rip my work....also for obvious reasons

if I was that scared of people ripping my work I wouldn't include the source code (and yes I realize that the only skin I've ever even started hasn't been released yet, but still) and I would implement some sort of anti-rip technique

[razmansix]

The person who uploads the skin is usually the one who did the graphics, he can and should give the proper credit to the coder(s), although it would also be perfectly acceptable if the coder uploads the skin and the graphics artist is mentioned in the credits.

I agree 100%...I mean if the skinner teams can't settle the details before a skin is done and uploaded/commented they shouldn't be working together in the first place.

[dlinkwit27]

To Plauge: Your X-Slant! I love that skin! Great Work both you and kriptoner!

[edit]
to rest of y'all who psoted befoer I could respond. :
I never cared about coding untill I realized (via these forums) how much work went into these skins. It's no longer a one person, one day graphic job that you can jsut cut-up like the WA2 skins.
[/edit]

[thepyr0x]

To pyrox: Your X-Slant! I love that skin! Great Work both you and kriptoner!

No I'm not
that's plague
I'm forcefield


lol dlink

[dlinkwit27]

yea i know, y'all jsut responded too quick. when i realized that i wasn't the post after who said they made x-slant, i assuemd only 1 had posted befoer me, scrolled up two, saw you, and edited his name. it's fixed now tho . and if ur forcefeild...hurry the f* up and get that baby coded and released!! lol. jk!

[edit]
all right! I was first this time! woo hoo!
[/edit]

[Plague]

Originally posted by razmansix
I agree 100%...I mean if the skinner teams can't settle the details before a skin is done and uploaded/commented they shouldn't be working together in the first place.

agreed, but I've had a great time working with both kriptoner and onemerci but that's not really the issue.
Since atleast half the work in creating a skin is coding, it's not more than fair that both authors get just as much credit for it.
They both deserve it, no matter if the gfx guy or code guy uploaded it.

If the coder uploads it, then the gfx guy gets less credit, and vice versa..

I don't see the problem in adding one or two boxes for Author.
You really just need one as you could put both names in the same box and still keep the "uploaded by:" box..

dlink: cool, glad you like the skin. A new one is on the way, gonna be some time before it's done though cos of lack of time for both me and kriptoner..

-Plague

[dlinkwit27]

better longer and it be a cool skin (sakura anyone?) then made in a half hour and work/look like shit (like the guy who made "his" skin from a tutorial);

[Plague]

yep, couldn't agree more..
I'm sure you will like this skin, kriptoner makes wonderful graphics and when he did this one, he had "functional, yet beautiful" in his mind..
I can't give any specifics though, cos it's gonna initially be released in a Breedpack.

-Plague

[dlinkwit27]

breedpack huh...i take it no screenies then? o well, i'll live. Speaking of sakur tho (my last post), I'm not trying to de-rail my own thread, but has anyone seen hide or hair of neko? last post was 1-16.

[Plague]

he's in ******* alot..
Sakura isn't dead, don't worry, It's beeing worked on and it's gonna rule once released

-Plague

[dlinkwit27]

good deal. back on topic kinda. Now tell me all, who do you think people are going to notice most when that comes out, the awesome graphics, or the code? His poor coder (unless he does it himself, which ruins this point entirely ) will get almsot no reconition I bet becasue teh graphics will be so awesmoe. WA User joe has no clue that that skni is only so awesome cause there was an awesome coder who was able to pull off all the extra stuff that is crammed into it.

[mc^^^^]

just another thing that should be in the NEW database *hint* *hint* *nudge* *nudge*

[iPlayTheSpoons]

im a little late here, but i think its a great idea and agree 100% with almost everything said in here. big x-slant fan

[hammerhead]

Originally posted by dlinkwit27
You make a good point about that. It just seems to me that the coders are overlooked, and they deserve their own part on the page. Myself, I don't really read the comments by the author. I judge mainly from the screen shot and by who made it (if it is by a trusted name I know it'll be good, and no need to look at the extras). It seems that the coders are all behind the scenes with no respect. The only coder I know of in here are HH, Iplaythespoons, and RPeter (i think he codes ). I know many more skinners. Vibe, Neko, I knew IPlay and Rpeter thru ther sknis first, mc^^^ ect. If y'all don't want it, that's fine, I was just thought it'd be neat. And Plauge has a good point as well. If AVS presets can't get their own section, wish me luck gettnit this thru. but....skinner.exe skins got their own section in WA2, so who knows?

I'm all for this, why? I didn't even know that Plague coded Opal Redemption, I thought the artist did it.. I still dont know who coded epsilux.

There are tons of good coders out there:
Rpeterclark, ThePlague, Iplaythespoons, Da_pipe, Digitalhigh, will, gonzotek, naamloos, vica (I am only mentoning coders who do coding and no gfx), and more who dont seem to come to mind right now.

[Mr Jones]

If you put enuough thought into a skin, you can achieve plenty of credit if your the coder, I think I've had as much spam/fan/hate mail regarding Media Whore as I have for any of my solo projects, this was mainly I think down to a couple of things...

1) A Credits screen we did, Graphics By Xerxes , Code and stuff by Jones, each section on that was clickable to take you to our personal sites.

2) Linkage within the pop up menus I used to both our sites again

3) A well written comments section in the skin.

4) A well written user comments in the skin submission page which gave us equal credit for the work.

It must work as I say, I have had loads of mail about it, and fair number of entries on the web site guest book about it, mainly from idiots who can't read instructions....

[hammerhead]

I used to get tons of spam, until I changed my address.

[Wildrose-Wally]

Originally posted by dlinkwit27
If AVS presets can't get their own section, wish me luck gettnit this thru. but....skinner.exe skins got their own section in WA2, so who knows?

When the site gets the next major update, the AVS presets might be removed from Winamp 2 plugins and Winamp 3 components and get their own section.
Skinner.exe do not have their own section, like avs within plugins, they have their own category within skins, and on top of that they are excluded from the most recent category.

[mc^^^^]

it can be a good thing, when me and bizzy made the mirc script he uploaded it everywhere so he got all the noob spammage and i only got decent email regarding it

[binary hero]

i had a better idea already

skinner-defined xml tags for skin descriptions
instead of being stuck to <author>, <email>, etc, i would like to be able to define my own:
<skininfo id="coder" name="coded by:"/>
<coder>Bill</coder>

this would display:
coded by: Bill

in the skin switcher. It would add more organisation and more "free-forminess" to it all.

[mc^^^^]

their different, bh your idea is to show in the skin itself. dlinkwit27's idea was to instead of having 'author' on winamp.com, it would show 'gfx artist' and 'coder' with seperate email links and all

[binary hero]

but with my idea you could make a "gfx person" and "coder" and totally disregard authour, or, you could have "maki coder" and "xml/graphics"...however you want.

[Gonzotek]

About the little scripts and whatnot. I require credit in my licenses for my code and it actually seems to work. Enhanced Browser is in MoonKore and I wasn't even aware of the browser being in it, until I Google'd my nick and saw that I was thanked in the author's comments section.

-=Gonzotek=-

[hammerhead]

yep...

[Mr Jones]

/runs to go check Hoop Life....


/well your names in the skin credit info, slideshow thingy by Gonzotek, will that do

Did you even know it was there ?, I'm sure I asked you, goes to check PM list...

[Gonzotek]

Yeah, I remember that. I don't care TOO much if I don't _know_ that I'm getting credit (although the encouragement is nice). I was just saying that by using a license, I am able to get credit without having to even know that I am getting credit. I like to share my stuff, but I don't want someone else to claim that something I spent time on is their own(and who would?). Putting the license on lets the would-be thief know that they can openly use it, just so long as they include credit for my work in their information somewhere. Trully, I could care less if I do a two-line script and give it away in the forums; but recently my code is tending towards hundred+ line scripts, and I think it has enough value that I want it known as mine. If everyone were licensing their code with similar licenses, and skinners regarded them as valid, then the whole problem of crediting w/o permission would be reduced. If you don't want to share your code with the world, that's fine, of course; just don't include the source with the compiled script. But if you do want to, I'd recommend protecting yourself and your code with a license.
-=Gonzotek=-

[Wes_janson]

I had a discussion with a friend relating to this. And just for the record...I do art...not coding...

Coders are under appreciated. If a coder does his job properly (and this applies to webpages, script, etc not just winamp) he is not reconized. Users just benefit from the code and never think about who created it. If he does his job improperly...then everyone gets all over him. Coders are 50% (if not more) of the job...yet aren't fully (if at all) reconized for their work. Need proof? Simple. A guy and I are writing our own web-based board. I am doing the graphics...he is doing the code. Will a user think about how the coding works...or how the layout/graphics look? And its quite clear that in a web-board...the coding is more then 90% of the work...

For example, with my skin. I coded the XML...but with the MAKI it was mostly written and edited for me. All I did was occasionally change a few names and stuff. Yet the only place to reconize the coders is the discription...and even then I could get away with not mentioning them in the discription.

With art you are reconized if its good...and people just don't mention it if its bad.

I defintely think coders should be reconized for the work they do. Wether it is this idea...or another...something needs to be done.

Jason

[dlinkwit27]

Originally posted by wildrose-wally
Skinner.exe do not have their own section, like avs within plugins, they have their own category within skins, and on top of that they are excluded from the most recent category.

oops, sry, were arguing but saynig the same thing. I meant that instead of generated skins being in the website, person,e ct skins, they got their own"Generated" sub section. Sry I was unclear.

[thepyr0x]

I'm not against this idea in any way, shape or form
I just, couldn't care much less whether or not my name shows up on the download screen....

[dlinkwit27]

I was thinknig....It's quite ironic how the big deal is now that countries get to see microsoft's code, and how linux is open source, and all taht code and what -not is a huge deal, but when it comes to a skin, no-body (who doesn't know better) seems to care about code. You enver hear debates about how it's unfair that microsoft won't tell people how they made their splash screen, or how mac should tell everyone how to make the aqua buttons.

[dlinkwit27]

seeing how there have been changes lately with the forums, perhaps the admin will see this too and maybe take it into consideration. with that said....(me is foolishly optimistic )

/bump

[fyreskins]

epsilux was coded by nIRV -- it should be visible in the about box