Old 21st August 2003, 00:14   #1
dlinkwit27
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Child Nudes

::I understand completly if this thread gets deleted without notice::

In another form I made a comment that nude photographs of some children were OK. Now I know we had a big incident not too long ago, but I am interested to hear everyone's opinion on this.

Now I think we all agree that sexual acts involving children is wrong, but what about artistic photos? No sexual poses, etc, just tasteful photos, just like a photographer would take of an adult, but with a 14 year old. I think that tasteful photos are OK, and here is why.

The Russian and other 3rd world countries' economies are shit right now, and almost everyone is poor. In Yahoo! Magazine there was a story (don't ask for a link, it was over a year ago) about a Russian family who let their daughter do this. Why? She liked it, and they pay was good, real good. The family got 300 US dollars per shoot. Nearly 3 times as much as the father (the only other source of income for the family) made in a year. Pretty good deal huh? The parents were there at all shoots, had final say on what photos and poses would be done, and were generally in control of the project. The bottom line is that in cases like these, nobody gets hurt. The family is now infinitely better off than they were before, and the company makes money, and people enjoy the pictures for various reasons. I see no harm in that.
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:26   #2
Atmo
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Hmm.

Go back 20,30,40 years, and think about what was considered ok to photograph and publish back then.

Fast forward to today and look at the differences.

If people were to start condoning child porn done tastefully (if there is such a thing) now, then in 10 or 20 years where will we be?
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:29   #3
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Agree's with Atmo...My Own thought's? You don't want to know

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Old 21st August 2003, 00:31   #4
ryan
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Maybe my post was not so well though out.

As posted below, art is okay.. I agree with that.

But who's to keep the pervs from getting their jollies from these types of pictures ?
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:31   #5
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The thing a lot of people just don't understand is this:
Nudity is not necissarily porn.
Picture this... A young girl sits by the pond, with pale white flesh by a reflective circular glassy water, with lilies and leaves and dark greens and other grasses and flowers. She is in the nude, but just sitting there, examining a lily in a childlike way, her head gently tilted and her features clearly visible, with another pure white flower behind her ear, tucked in her long, wavy red hair which trails down to the earthy ground beside the pond. Nearby, a frog sits on a lilypad.

Is this porn?
No, obviously not.
Is the child nude?
Yes.

There is a difference between art and porn. The human body, in childhood and adulthood is a beautiful thing, and should be allowed to be expressed without ridicule.

But bitch because there is a picture of a little girl with her clothes off by a pond. I don't care.

just as feathery as ever
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:36   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by idiot
Child nudity, in all it's forms is wrong.

Period.
I feel bad for your kids, not being able to take a bath until they are 18. Well they cant, they will be nude, you cant see them nude, that woudl be incest.
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:41   #7
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Where did I say they couldn't be naked?

Nowhere..

Where did I say that seeing my own children (if I ever have any) naked was incest?

Nowhere..

You twisted my post all out of proportion, You know I didn't mean it in that manner, I meant in picture form it's wrong.. atleast until I though about it more..

Read my post again thanks!
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:46   #8
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who is keeping the perves out? the same people who are stopping the pervs from getting their jollies with adult artistic photos.
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:46   #9
ryan
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And who would that be?
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:48   #10
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nobody. that is is the risk taken with artistic nudes. You can either appreciate the photo for its artists value or "et your jollies" by it. It is up to the veiwer to decide how they use the photo. I am sure not everyone has the same reaction to stary night or the mona lisa, nor will everyone appreciate the nude photos
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Old 21st August 2003, 00:52   #11
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But now the pervs are stopping the art appreciaters appreciating the art. Atmo makes a good point, but otherwise, i don't want to touch this issue any further.

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Old 21st August 2003, 00:56   #12
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I believe the problem is, that with the younger you are, the less you know what you are doing. Take for example a different little girl in russia who's family sees the other family making 300 dollars, forces the child into it. Who is there to stop them? the legal system in russia? Now apparently it is different once you pass 18 years of age because then you can take care of yourself and shouldn't let anyone force you into anthing. but anyways, there is that line between porn and nudity that i guess no one wants to flirt with, especially with pictures of children.

No sig here folks.
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Old 21st August 2003, 01:26   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by GqSkrub
I believe the problem is, that with the younger you are, the less you know what you are doing. Take for example a different little girl in russia who's family sees the other family making 300 dollars, forces the child into it. Who is there to stop them? the legal system in russia? Now apparently it is different once you pass 18 years of age because then you can take care of yourself and shouldn't let anyone force you into anthing. but anyways, there is that line between porn and nudity that i guess no one wants to flirt with, especially with pictures of children.
Fair enough. This is where it comes down to the responsibilty of the company and the government to get involved. And btw, you don't like these laws and practices? Write your congressmen. If you need links to artistic sites to see what I mean, I have a few that are tasteful, if you would like to see examples of what exactly I mean.
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Old 21st August 2003, 02:00   #14
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Actually, I remember reading somewhere that it's not illegal by US law if it's just a nude photo, because then it's artistic expression obviously you must also have the minors consent and parents consent.
But take a picture or having a minor being portrayed in a sexual act or having them being perceived through sexually suggestive themes is ILLEGAL!!!!

Photography is a form of art, and must be respected as such. Obviously, porn is not tasteful art and I have a hard time considering it art at all. Love making on the other hand, is art.
I believe when it comes to something like what dlinkwit27 had described up above, it then is ok.
As well as what White Raven had described, it then is also ok.
Obviously, when I child is depicted in anything other then art, it is then agreed that it is wrong and illegal.

Remember that taking nude photos of someone is an art in it's own right. Art is a natural human need for expression of thoughts and emotions at a different level, usually one that the norm can not always understand.
In such a case, I do believe, that, taking nude photos of minors 14 to 17, is ok. And is deserving of respect if the photos are tasteful and are of true artistic expression through the beauty of the human body.
If, the nude models are expressed through inappropriate, untasteful, unexpressive as an artistic expression, and/or are portrayed in any sexually suggestive environment, then I believe that it is wrong, and I am fully against such things. Photos of sexual acts should only be portrayed using adult models because adult models are fully developed individuals, and I feel it to be extremely wrong to portray undeveloped individuals to be in sexual acts that originally and naturally require someone to be fully developed in order to actually have sex. Usually minors are not mentally mature enough to make such decisions.
what about if a 16 year old and an 18 year old who are inlove? and make love? that's an entirely different subject/topic all together. But I will say this, If the minor is mentally mature enough to make such a decision as to make love, then all the power to them, and my respects to their love for each other and I hope there relationship lasts forever.


So, to disagree with art is almost to disagree with being human, it's like your being in-human while trying to argue about not having nude photos of minors. lol. Obviously that is only my opinion.

Well, that's my 2cents. my 2cents consisted of real facts mixed into my own beliefs about art.

Thanks for taking the time to read my reply.

Best Wishes,

- Theodis

formely known as knightfairy > Theodis > DJ Theodis
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Old 21st August 2003, 02:03   #15
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disclaimer on one site I know of
Quote:
All art works presented on this site, are legal according to US laws. Our site opposes what is called child pornography and legally defined in United States Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 110 Section 2256 as images containing "sexually explicit conduct..."

Also, images displayed on this site can be purchased in bookstores all over the USA. Their authors - famous photo artists have made careers photographing adolescent females and males. <url removed by me>.com is offering opportunity to see similar art works just for a lower cost.

The question of the work's artistic value is left solely to the viewer. Also, please write us and share your thoughts about the artistic value of <url remoevd by me>.com, how to make our site better.
the link seems b0rked though.....

same link on this other site that i found searchign for the law on google.

Quote:
Please note that this site contains photographs and movies of normal, everyday people enjoying the lifestyle of naturism, social nudity, nudism... whatever you call the lifestyle. All images portray this lifestyle. Models presented are shown only in strict accordance with United States Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 110 Section 2256. Models are never shown in lewd poses or sexually explicit situations. therefore we certify all images in this website to be exempt from the record keeping and other requirements of 18 U.S.C. 2257 and the regulations of 75 C.F.R. 75.

This site does not contain photos of a pornographic nature. If that's what you are looking for, then you have come to the wrong site. There are very specific guidelines called the Dost Factors, they come from a 1986 case: U.S. vs. Dost, and were later affirmed by the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals. The Dost factors are used to help determine if an image contains the "lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area" as referred to in United States Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 110 Section 2256, and which would make an image "child pornography".
Also, if you are less than 18 years old I suggest that you go elsewhere. But if you do make the decision to stay, you are doing it at your choice, don't blame me...

The pictures and video clips on this site are by no means the reason we built this site. It was built to give you, the active naturist or nudist curious to have a central location to find new comprehensive information on our lifestyle. Looking for a clothes-optional beach or resort?
...Beaches where it's only natural to stroll in the buff, with nothing between you and the sea and sky...
...Resorts where you and your family can swim, run, bicycle, play ball, picnic, and just plain relax au naturel...
Search for a nude beach or club near you in our Resort section. You will find a thousand's review of beach's, address of clubs worldwide and active links to web sites that will keep you informed in almost every way imaginable. This section, as well as all areas of this site, is updated several times a month with member's observations about resorts in their region.
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Old 21st August 2003, 02:15   #16
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I've never thought art was wrong. Nude children have been in art for centuries. Look in a bible with pictures. You will see nude children. In fact, isn't there a famouse painting by Van Gogh with 2 nude children. But if the child is photographed in a sexual way then I agree to the fact that it is wrong.

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