Html, XML, XSL?

Timzone8 · 3rd October 2003, 00:28

How many people know these???

Namelessv1 · 3rd October 2003, 00:30

Sadly, I only know html.

Timzone8 · 3rd October 2003, 00:34

I prefer XML over Html for websites...

ryan · 3rd October 2003, 01:15

You forgot CSS

I know HTML and CSS right now, learning php atm.

Mike H. · 3rd October 2003, 01:16

If he had put CSS, there would be 25 choices on the poll!

Timzone8 · 3rd October 2003, 02:14

Yup, too many variables, css sorta goes hand in hand with Html ne way, though some people that know html don't always know css...i do though

iomegajaz · 3rd October 2003, 03:02

HTML, ahd therefore CSS. =)

zootm · 3rd October 2003, 03:08

everybody knows XML. people who don't just don't understand what it is.

Timzone8 · 3rd October 2003, 12:05

Yeh, usually when people don't know XML they also don't know what it is...i think you contradicted yourself twice in the on sentence! j/k

griffinn · 3rd October 2003, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Timzone8
I prefer XML over Html for websites...

Newflash! XHTML is HTML!

Mr_007 · 3rd October 2003, 13:20

Html!

zootm · 3rd October 2003, 13:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Timzone8
Yeh, usually when people don't know XML they also don't know what it is...i think you contradicted yourself twice in the on sentence! j/k

heh, i was drunk. i'm impressed i managed to type!

but XML is very basic. it's just a little set of rules. it's also a data representation language, rather than a markup language, so comparing it to HTML isn't really fair. XHTML is just a version of HTML that follows the XML rules.

ertmann|CPH · 3rd October 2003, 14:44

knowing xml and not xsl is rather pointless isn't it?

UpperKEES · 3rd October 2003, 14:48

Quote:

Originally posted by mike_aitch
If he had put CSS, there would be 25 choices on the poll!

That's why they offer multiple choice when creating a poll...

UK

Mike H. · 3rd October 2003, 16:16

The polls themselves are multiple choice, but you can only choose one!

A few notes about the XML debate:
XHTML is technically not HTML, but practically it is. It is a reformulation of HTML elements in XML. In fact, if you write an XHTML document, but leave out the DTD, a browser will interpret it as HTML 4.0 and will have no problem reading it.

Timzone8 · 4th October 2003, 01:29

XML!=XHTML
Xml is soo easy to use, and you should probably integrate it into html or use some sort of stylesheet for it...

This isn't a debate over XML is better than HTML, because they aren't alike, i just want to see how many Winamp Users actually know XML Html etc
Because there seems to be a shortage of skin making, probably because of Winamp5 coming out, but is there a chance that it's just a lack of xml skills?
FYI: i haven't made a Winamp3 skin because my graphic design skills suck!

ryan · 4th October 2003, 01:37

Quote:

The polls themselves are multiple choice, but you can only choose one!

What he meant was, you can check a box when creating the poll, to allow for more than one answer per person.

Timzone8 · 4th October 2003, 01:44

I didn't allow multiple choice in the way that you could vote more than once, i made more options available to get a more accurate result.
If you were to quick to click and just clicked the first one you saw, then...

griffinn · 4th October 2003, 04:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Timzone8
XML!=XHTML
Xml is soo easy to use, and you should probably integrate it into html

Oh god...

XHTML is HTML reformulated into XML. If this is not "integrate XML into HTML" I don't know what you have in mind.

XML is a generalised data structuring syntax. By itself it's not terribly useful. You need a meaningful document type definition to specify the type of data you want to represent in XML.

code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>

<!DOCTYPE sometag [

  <!ELEMENT sometag (#PCDATA)>

]>

<sometag>

  meh

</sometag>

If you can write this, you know XML. (I guess this is why zootm said everybody knows XML.) But is it useful? Hell no.

Timzone8 · 4th October 2003, 04:49

It is useful! I use it for my news and menu parts of http://www.portal3.net and http://www.timzone8.com (both under construction) and there's no way that i can be fked typing out

code:
<br>'s and <p>'s and <font class="safasf">'s

all the time!
So i can use xml as a database....

AND IM NO TALING ABOUT XHTML, I'm talking about X.M.L. with XSL

anubis2003 · 4th October 2003, 05:07

HTML and XML.

Timzone8 · 4th October 2003, 05:15

Quote:

Originally posted by anubis2003
HTML and XML.

So...you know html and xml? or are you just starting the whole xhtml=xml+html?

caitcid · 4th October 2003, 05:53

I only heard of HTML..the other languages....I never heard of them until now..

anubis2003 · 4th October 2003, 05:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Timzone8
So...you know html and xml? or are you just starting the whole xhtml=xml+html?

I know both. I don't know that much XML - just touched on it. I know a good 10-15 languages of all sort(although I don't really consider these to be languages, but whatever). The main languages I know are C++, TI BASIC(83 and 89), PHP, and SQL

whiteflip · 4th October 2003, 06:09

You can learn XML in like 4 seconds. Its nothing. It does nothing. Making stuff that does something with it is the tricky part.

HTML XML XSL CSS JS

anubis2003 · 4th October 2003, 06:11

/me agrees to whiteflip.

scripting languages are nothing. It takes something like JS or PHP to really do something.

Timzone8 · 4th October 2003, 06:15

RE:anubis2003 sweet' u know 8xBasic aswell!

~XML isn't the only language on the poll!
does anyone know XSL? I found it a bit tricky to learn, but the rules are simple to follow

anubis2003 · 4th October 2003, 06:15

I haven't heard of XSL... I'll have to look it up sometime

Timzone8 · 4th October 2003, 06:28

XSL=Extensive Stylesheet Language (i think?)
It's really good to use with xml, because you can load ie, demo.xml and if you refer to the XSL stylesheet it will display the XML in another format, usually like Html, depending on what you do with the XSL...

shabaviz55 · 4th October 2003, 07:41

I know html, But, I heard something about xml.

Timzone8 · 4th October 2003, 07:49

ok then... i spose it's gettin late over there, cos it is here, 6pm

zootm · 4th October 2003, 12:36

Quote:

Originally posted by griffinn
If you can write this, you know XML. (I guess this is why zootm said everybody knows XML.) But is it useful? Hell no.

it's useful as a data representation language. a unified format which can be easily adapted to store many types of data eases the writing of parses and increases portability of formats. it may seem to lack in efficiency, but that's becoming more and more of a moot point, considering the power of computers and the types of data that XML is suitable for the storage of.

a lot of people spot that XML looks like HTML, and assume that XML is designed for writing webpages - this is not so. XML coupled with XSL or CSS could provide a way of showing data in a webpage-style way, but it's not really a hugely useful one (in my opinion), especially with SQL being widespread. that's not to say it has no place in the future, you just have to remember that XML is designed for representing the content on webpages, not the design of them. HTML is trying to make this separation a bit more these days, but it's never gonna be exactly the same.

Timzone8 · 5th October 2003, 02:01

I find that by using XML for my websites, I can just edit that single file like a database... But with free ISP hosting I can't expect much from them, I have CGI available and that's all, so I just use XML.
It's also good to organise data on a page, although I haven't been able to make drop down menu's to select a certain part of the XML file to display, ne ideas?

griffinn · 5th October 2003, 02:28

When XML Query is implemented by browsers, you'll be able to traverse XML trees without any server-side scripting. For that you'll have to wait... and wait... and wait...
Or you can use JavaScript to manipulate HTML <div> visibility to achieve the same, but then you said you wanna move away from HTML so bleah
Or use PHP's DOM-XML functions to parse XML files. Then you can select certain subtrees and style them with the Sablotron XSLT functions, or traverse them manually and write HTML output etc.

Timzone8 · 5th October 2003, 02:40

tnx, i just couldn't find that on w3 before

Timzone8 · 5th October 2003, 02:48

I couldn't find any examples using 'drop down menu's' to select data to display,ne?

S-uper_T-oast · 5th October 2003, 03:13

HTML and XML. I have a good knowladge (or had) or HTML. I haven't used it in a while since I stopped working on my website. XML is just something I picked up from watching my freind make stuff on his computer. I am wokring on learning JAVA right now, it is really annoying...

Timzone8 · 5th October 2003, 03:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Timzone8
I couldn't find any examples using 'drop down menu's' to select data to display,ne?

???

ctn|chrisw · 5th October 2003, 05:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Timzone8
???

I think people can see the post 2 posts up you dont need to quote yourself with "???".

Timzone8 · 5th October 2003, 06:11

This way it goes bold'

View Poll Results: I know:
Html	8	34.78%
XML	0	0%
XSL	0	0%
Html, XML	8	34.78%
Html, XSL	0	0%
XML, XSL	1	4.35%
Html, XML, XSL	5	21.74%
none	1	4.35%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

3rd October 2003, 00:28	#1
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	Html, XML, XSL? How many people know these???

3rd October 2003, 03:02	#7
iomegajaz Balled and Chained Alumni Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 4,702	HTML, ahd therefore CSS. =) "My heart hates uggos." --JD.

4th October 2003, 04:49	#20
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	It is useful! I use it for my news and menu parts of http://www.portal3.net and http://www.timzone8.com (both under construction) and there's no way that i can be fked typing out code: <br>'s and <p>'s and <font class="safasf">'s all the time! So i can use xml as a database.... AND IM NO TALING ABOUT XHTML, I'm talking about X.M.L. with XSL

4th October 2003, 05:07	#21
anubis2003 Forum King Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: middle of somewhere Posts: 5,564	HTML and XML. [Over The Monkey] \| [My DeviantArt] \| [Se ti] \| [Atmo Digital Design Forums]

3rd October 2003, 00:30	#2
Namelessv1 Forum King Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 4,758	Sadly, I only know html.

3rd October 2003, 00:34	#3
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	I prefer XML over Html for websites...

3rd October 2003, 01:15	#4
ryan not fucked, not quite. (Forum King) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tn Posts: 8,755	You forgot CSS I know HTML and CSS right now, learning php atm.

3rd October 2003, 01:16	#5
Mike H. Forum Esperantist (Major Dude) Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 1,135	If he had put CSS, there would be 25 choices on the poll!

3rd October 2003, 02:14	#6
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	Yup, too many variables, css sorta goes hand in hand with Html ne way, though some people that know html don't always know css...i do though

3rd October 2003, 03:08	#8
zootm Forum King Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland Posts: 13,378	everybody knows XML. people who don't just don't understand what it is.

3rd October 2003, 12:05	#9
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	Yeh, usually when people don't know XML they also don't know what it is...i think you contradicted yourself twice in the on sentence! j/k

3rd October 2003, 13:20	#11
Mr_007 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,838	Html!

3rd October 2003, 14:44	#13
ertmann\|CPH Forum Viking (Forum King) Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The North Posts: 3,541	knowing xml and not xsl is rather pointless isn't it?

3rd October 2003, 16:16	#15
Mike H. Forum Esperantist (Major Dude) Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 1,135	The polls themselves are multiple choice, but you can only choose one! A few notes about the XML debate: XHTML is technically not HTML, but practically it is. It is a reformulation of HTML elements in XML. In fact, if you write an XHTML document, but leave out the DTD, a browser will interpret it as HTML 4.0 and will have no problem reading it.

4th October 2003, 01:29	#16
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	XML!=XHTML Xml is soo easy to use, and you should probably integrate it into html or use some sort of stylesheet for it... This isn't a debate over XML is better than HTML, because they aren't alike, i just want to see how many Winamp Users actually know XML Html etc Because there seems to be a shortage of skin making, probably because of Winamp5 coming out, but is there a chance that it's just a lack of xml skills? FYI: i haven't made a Winamp3 skin because my graphic design skills suck!

4th October 2003, 01:44	#18
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	I didn't allow multiple choice in the way that you could vote more than once, i made more options available to get a more accurate result. If you were to quick to click and just clicked the first one you saw, then...

4th October 2003, 05:53	#23
caitcid Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: where!!?!?? Posts: 195	I only heard of HTML..the other languages....I never heard of them until now..

4th October 2003, 06:09	#25
whiteflip Post Master General (Forum King) Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Seattle, Now Las Vegas Posts: 6,032	You can learn XML in like 4 seconds. Its nothing. It does nothing. Making stuff that does something with it is the tricky part. HTML XML XSL CSS JS I'm Back?

4th October 2003, 06:11	#26
anubis2003 Forum King Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: middle of somewhere Posts: 5,564	/me agrees to whiteflip. scripting languages are nothing. It takes something like JS or PHP to really do something. [Over The Monkey] \| [My DeviantArt] \| [Se ti] \| [Atmo Digital Design Forums]

4th October 2003, 06:15	#27
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	RE:anubis2003 sweet' u know 8xBasic aswell! ~XML isn't the only language on the poll! does anyone know XSL? I found it a bit tricky to learn, but the rules are simple to follow

4th October 2003, 06:28	#29
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	XSL=Extensive Stylesheet Language (i think?) It's really good to use with xml, because you can load ie, demo.xml and if you refer to the XSL stylesheet it will display the XML in another format, usually like Html, depending on what you do with the XSL...

4th October 2003, 07:41	#30
shabaviz55 Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Arak, Iran Posts: 639	I know html, But, I heard something about xml.

4th October 2003, 07:49	#31
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	ok then... i spose it's gettin late over there, cos it is here, 6pm

5th October 2003, 02:01	#33
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	I find that by using XML for my websites, I can just edit that single file like a database... But with free ISP hosting I can't expect much from them, I have CGI available and that's all, so I just use XML. It's also good to organise data on a page, although I haven't been able to make drop down menu's to select a certain part of the XML file to display, ne ideas?

5th October 2003, 02:28	#34
griffinn Court Jester (Forum King) Join Date: May 2000 Location: Your local toystore Posts: 3,502	When XML Query is implemented by browsers, you'll be able to traverse XML trees without any server-side scripting. For that you'll have to wait... and wait... and wait... Or you can use JavaScript to manipulate HTML <div> visibility to achieve the same, but then you said you wanna move away from HTML so bleah Or use PHP's DOM-XML functions to parse XML files. Then you can select certain subtrees and style them with the Sablotron XSLT functions, or traverse them manually and write HTML output etc. The smiley slot machine! \| Quotable Blog

5th October 2003, 02:40	#35
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	tnx, i just couldn't find that on w3 before

5th October 2003, 02:48	#36
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	I couldn't find any examples using 'drop down menu's' to select data to display,ne?

5th October 2003, 03:13	#37
S-uper_T-oast Forum King Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fnord?! Posts: 2,653	HTML and XML. I have a good knowladge (or had) or HTML. I haven't used it in a while since I stopped working on my website. XML is just something I picked up from watching my freind make stuff on his computer. I am wokring on learning JAVA right now, it is really annoying...

5th October 2003, 06:11	#40
Timzone8 Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 569	This way it goes bold'

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