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Old 21st October 2003, 13:09   #1
gouta
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Winamp 5: The beginning of the end ?

Well.. i've been watching Winamp growing since 1997. It started as a hack of tomizlav uzelec's amp v0.7.6 (they ceased using it when they released Winamp 2.666 because they pissed off the original author as he realized that the most used player is based on some portions of code he wrote a long time before) and evolved into a full featured media player. As of the year 2000, the crew (originally, Brennan Underwood) started working on Wasabi, the next generation of Winamp. The idea was really tasty: a system which can be extended through a set of components where each one has the ability to use the other's services. They promised to make it cross-platform too.. a promise that they never took into account (it used to be an alpha version available for download but too buggy to be able to evaluate the involved overall effort).

It turned out that Wasabi was partially a failure and backed off to Winamp2. They felt that something need to be done. Winamp2 is 5 years-old ! this is too much for a piece of software kept 'unchanged' by providing the same services through the different releases (91% playing mp3, 7% listenning to shoutcast, 2% playing other file formats). As an 'evolution' they decided to add video support (which is IMHO useless and un-finished), CD ripping and burning capabilities (okay for the former but pointless for the second, IMHO). And as a final step, they merged the Winamp3's skinning engine and TADA: here we go.. that's Winamp5. Well.. i took a look to the beta1: what i've got is a big box w/ a nice but very dense interface w/ too much useless graphical stuff (the scrolling text, the buttons, the menu [hey this is Winamp not OfficeXP]). Too much functionalities placed in 3x2 inches² box. USELESS ! A little voice told me for the first time that this ain't enough for a major release.

Winamp is decaying ? Nevertheless, the beta presented some cool updates such as a compelete update of the preferences dialog box, an AAC encoder (a very nice and cool initiative, you will understand why..), a useless MP3 encoder, an nsv update and some media library bug fixes (i still don't understand why the ML and the playlist co-exist). This is the maximum of what Nullsoft is capable of. Well i don't see why other Winamp version should be released in the future. Winamp development should be 're-thinked'. It's rather interesting to enable the end-user to buy music (for exp. iTunes from Apple) from AOL sites than allowing it to burn his stuff on CDs.

To allow Winamp to survive, Justin should build services upon his favorite piece of code instead of adding some shitty functions. YES ! Winamp has a future but not as an MP3 (or whatever) music player. Some people reported that the iTunes Win32 port offers a better sounding system than Winamp (but w/ a bigger memory footprint). By the way.. AOL locked the MP3 encoder which is available only in the Pro version and agreed for the AAC one to be available for free.. heh.. lame .. because AAC performs better than MP3.. and besides, AAC is a kind of MPEG2 (they use a kind of common code to decode the stream) and hence of MP3.. lol..
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Old 21st October 2003, 13:18   #2
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Winmap devolpment is lucky to get this far with few Nullsoft staff left. Anyways it is stil Beta I am amazed at the amount of people this misread alpha or beta for Final...........

"Some people reported that the iTunes Win32 port offers a better sounding system than Winamp (but w/ a bigger memory footprint). "

Some people think humans didn't land of the moon, some people think the world is flat, some people.....

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

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Old 21st October 2003, 13:39   #3
nybergh
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Yeah, the main technology in WA5 must be 5 years old (what a fantastic name for a five year ol product :P).

The new freeform technology feels a bit glued on to WA5 beta and some features like multiple DSP support (can be added with third party plugins) and "real" crossfading within the DirectSound-output is still missing.

But what do we got? We've one of the fastest [lightest] applications available for this purpose and fanstastic free plugins like MilkDrop and DFX Lite. I used WA 2 on my previous machine, a P166 and it's still the same on my 1,7 Ghz.
And I love all the settings! As an example: You can't find a media player with as complex MIDI support as WA2/5. The MIDI-settings for WA "overrides" the Windows settings, so you can use a different synth than normal. Amazing!
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Old 21st October 2003, 13:56   #4
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I do think he has a point though.
They should never have pulled the plug on Winamp3, as it could really have been the next generation greatness everyone hoped it would be.

Winamp 5 will surely be very popular, but for how long?

-Plague
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Old 21st October 2003, 14:22   #5
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Yes, but many people (including me) didn't like WA3 becouse of the lack of features.
In the amount of config-alternatives WA3 is comparable to big shits like Windows Media Player and RealOne!

WA3 is still small and light compared to these WMP's and Reals (and nowadays iTunes).
WA3/Wasabi was/is just a XML-/skinning-technology show with a nice crossfader. It should never have been called a "done" one year ago...
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Old 21st October 2003, 14:43   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by nybergh
It should never have been called a "done" one year ago...
Couldn't agree more.
That was AOL's biggest mistake..
They pushed a release way too early.

Thing is, most people, including you (or so it seems), never gave Winamp3 a chance to mature and improve.
When they released it as "done", Wasabi wasn't even finished.
Wasabi has now been more or less finished, atleast when it comes to the skins part of it, and right about now would have been the time to start implementing all those missed features.
But like I said, people never gave it a chance and now it seems like it's too late..

It's a damn shame if you ask me..

-Plague
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Old 21st October 2003, 15:13   #7
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the real crossfader is in peter's out_ds.dll for years now.
but some people didn't just get how to turn that on!
search the forums for it!

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Old 21st October 2003, 15:19   #8
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you tell them man!
I'm so tired of that wish/request now that I don't even bother telling people this..

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Old 21st October 2003, 15:24   #9
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Quote:
It's a damn shame if you ask me..
very true that is.
Quote:
search the forums for it!
lol, but people still won't do that (but we can always hope )

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Old 21st October 2003, 16:49   #10
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Quote:
But like I said, people never gave it a chance and now it seems like it's too late..
But then it's true like gouta said it. WA is in slow decay. Let's face it. Now people still want to run WA2/5 becouse of the speed.

But hell, that's why users/developers chose Windows 95 (still DOS-based) instead of NT-technology in the mid nineties. And then we had to watch those pure crappy 98 & Me-releases until the time was come to make all Win OS:es, also the ones you can play games on, NT-based. And the PC-technology still suffers from that decision made in 1994-1995. If the home windowses had been NT-based in nine years, hey, the PC world would look quite different...

And comparing WA2 and WA3/Wasabi is like comparing DOS and NT. And WA5 is like Win98 (WA2.9x=Win95). Too much new tried to put in to a limited old technology. Exept from the fact that WA2 was a good product in its own era, the period of the first MP3-players. DOS was never a good product and neither is NT/XP but that's another story...

To the bosses at AOL (or whoever that made this decision) :

Killing WA3 and Wasabi and trusting a lightly modified 1997-1999 technology forever is a MISTAKE!!! Don't let history repeat itself!

Last edited by nybergh; 21st October 2003 at 17:37.
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Old 21st October 2003, 17:44   #11
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i agree that wa3 should have been given more of a chance. it was still buggy and unfinished. in some ways, it's amazing they were able to do what they did given the resources. i bet microshaft has a few thousand people working on mp9 and they can't put out half as good of a product. anyway, i just hope some form of dev still occurs now that something is out that that at least supports wa3 skins so that they are usable on my slow ass computer. on wa3, i realize how slow it really was when i run them side by side (ok... not with some of the newest builds). but yeah, hopefully something will still come of it. i just hope they don't call it WA15= (wa3 * wa5). they need to work on that naming thing as well.

When you take a hand and chop the fingers off... what do u get?

That would be the knub.
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Old 21st October 2003, 17:59   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plague
I do think he has a point though.
They should never have pulled the plug on Winamp3.
I don't think the plug was "pulled", just development throttled. I'm not sure if Winamp5 was worth the 6-8 months of development that could have been poured into Winamp3, but I guess that depends on how far Winamp3 would have progressed in that time.

They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards you hear satanic messages. That's nothing, if you play it forwards it installs Windows.
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Old 21st October 2003, 18:07   #13
will
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There is a big difference between using 5 year old code in an operating system and a player.

For one, having a rock solid base is always a very very good thing as far as application design.

The whole gen_ff thing is to cope with those who want skins, and for those who want lightness. Having a png+xml skinning system just to be left in the background is a waste. Having the memory/cpu consuming part of winamp in a plugin is what people (as a whole) need.

to quote someone at winamp "Fuck AOL for forcing the early release of winamp3, and fuck us for not realising how productive a marriage of winamp 2 and wasabi could be sooner."

DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS
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Old 21st October 2003, 23:00   #14
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@gouta
Your synopsis is based on flawed logic, assumption and inaccuracy. I find it quite insulting actually. Sure, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, however unresearched and misguided it may be . . . but just don't think that anyone else here is actually taking it in

- Winamp 5.0 beta 1 = the beginning of a new beginning
- Wasabi is not dead (nybergh). Wasabi is the plaform, the engine that all great things can be built on. Winamp3 was the first wasabi-based product. Other developers have and will continue to use wasabi to develop their new applications.
- wasabi-based products can all be cross-platform
- wasabi is definitely NOT a failure
- Freeform skin & script support in Winamp 5.x is wasabi
- Winamp3 development has been halted, but doesn't mean it will never resurface.
- Video support in Winamp 5.0 beta is NOT useless. Unfinished, yes, but definitely not useless! ("imho", of course)
- the menus in Winamp 5 Modern Skin can be disabled
- the main window can be resized (ok, currently scaling is in fixed percentages, but there is a "custom" option coming, which will allow you to proportionally resize it to any goddam size you want). And btw, have you looked at the windowshade modes yet?
- the "default" modern skin is just a skin, a .WAL file. If you don't like it, download one that you do like. Or design one of your own in the style of your other favorite 2nd-rate bloated media player
- there's a hell of a lot more new features that you obviously haven't found yet... and I'm sure that 99% of users will agree that these are definitely useful.
Just wait till you see beta 2 (if/when it goes public).
- more services can (and probably will) be added. Remember, this is 5.0 beta 1. Compare 2.0 with 2.9x (or with 2.81, or with 0.x, 1.x for that matter). Who knows what we'll have by the time Winamp reaches 5.9x (or even 5.1x). Also remember about PLUGINS. There's already plenty of services available via plugins . . . the release of 5.0 will reopen the developer market, and more bigger & better plugins will arise. Wait and see

A personal observation:
Since beta 1 went public, the overall reception on these forums has been phenomenal. Everyone is praising it. Everyone is excited...
Then you come along. Yes, just you. One single person with a negative response, out of thousands of others (sure, one or two have complained about missing features from Winamp3, mainly "enqueue/dequeue" in the playlist, that's to be expected).

more...

First you say that the cd ripper is ok, then you say it's got a useless MP3 Encoder. Why is it useless? Please back up your statements. Is it because you don't think it's feature-rich enough? Or is it because you prefer to rip to AAC/MP4 or OGG, or other? Remember, even though there are many more far superior lossy/lossless encoders available today, MP3 is still the most popular audio format, and for the time being, this doesn't look like changing (regardless of what Apple think).

I won't even go into the first few lines of your final paragraph.
I'll leave that for someone else to respond to accordingly . . .
Quote:
This is the maximum of what Nullsoft is capable of
Oh I can see you're going to be very popular round these parts



@nybergh
As the guys say, true crossfading HAS been in out_ds since v2.80 (or one of the later 2.7x releases). You just need to know how to enable/configure it.

As from the latest internal build of Winamp 5.0 Beta 2, the XFade button & slider in all 3rd-party freeform skins now works exactly as it did in Winamp3.
Yay!
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Old 21st October 2003, 23:42   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
As from the latest internal build of Winamp 5.0 Beta 2...
ohh... beta 2 already out

me like!

all right, enough sounding like yoda. as far as logic and innacuracy, i think there are a lot of people who don't know much about three, improvements for 5, the AOL pressure, etc etc. i will admit that i was misinformed at first. i thought the whole plug was pulled on wa3. i do think that wa3 has the potential to be greater than wa5, but i think they bit off a lot more than they could chew given the scope of the project and their staff size. my comments earlier were helf realistic, i knew some dev still was occuring on wa3, but in very minimal amounts. i am glad to know that it mainly the pause button was hit rather than delete.

When you take a hand and chop the fingers off... what do u get?

That would be the knub.
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Old 21st October 2003, 23:46   #16
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who cares how old the underlaying technology is as long as it works, winamp IMO is one of the fastest, stablest, and now thanks to new Modern Skin support and the media library also one of hte most functional media players around and quite tidy and easy to use too, while i may not yet use it for video i see pretty good potential and will myself probably start using winamp for everything

since winamp basiclly supports all audio formats (even if some are not nativly supported but are through 3rd party plugins) its only logical the move onto video and such and the cd burning and encoding features are not useless to those who are new to such things and is probably quite easy and quick to use (not tested it myself yet)
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Old 22nd October 2003, 04:48   #17
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@CyberAxe
Thank you, someone who finally agrees with me.

A lot of people like a lot of different stuff. Personally, I'm a big fan of sheer functionality, but I do happen to like a few Winamp 3 skins, and I think it's nice that now I can use all of my favorite Winamp 2.X plugins and settings along with such chic Winamp3 skins like MMD3. It's the best of both worlds, IMHO. (and if Winamp 3 components are ever supported, I'll be able to use Chronotron III again... bwa ha ha)

"Don't fear the reaper."
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Old 22nd October 2003, 06:31   #18
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- Wasabi is not dead (nybergh). Wasabi is the plaform, the engine that all great things can be built on. Winamp3 was the first wasabi-based product. Other developers have and will continue to use wasabi to develop their new applications.
I put it clumsy i think. Wasabi as WA3 is dead, yes. WA3 was more modern and had more possibilities than WA5. But Freeform support still feels glued to WA5. My english is not good enough toput in it better wors I think.

I my comparision between OS:es and applications was not meant to be taken completely seriously, maybe i forgot to put in enough many smilies . And yes, developed technology is good, but I've foound that people are a little bit too hysterical abut keeping WA2 compability "We can't add that becouse it wouldn't support WA2-skins..." as an example.

Quote:
who cares how old the underlaying technology is as long as it works, winamp IMO is one of the fastest, stablest, and now thanks to new Modern Skin support and the media library also one of hte most functional media players around and quite tidy and easy to use too, while i may not yet use it for video i see pretty good potential and will myself probably start using winamp for everything
I agree with you too. As I said earlier in this thread I never started couse WA3
becouse it wasn't done when it was released. The first leaked prealpha of WA5 was a quite done product and exept from ripping and freeform support it could have been released as WA 2.96 or something.
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Old 22nd October 2003, 12:51   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg

As from the latest internal build of Winamp 5.0 Beta 2, the XFade button & slider in all 3rd-party freeform skins now works exactly as it did in Winamp3.
Yay!
But there is currently no knob in the modern and classic baseskin to make use of it.

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Old 22nd October 2003, 16:55   #20
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As long as they co develop the wasabi engine with winamp5 i think they still are on route, fact is that the engnine and winamp3 was never mature enough for then uninformed publics' scrutony, winamp5 might actualy help Nullsoft get the people who thought winamp3 was just another media player, of their backs so they can consentrate on making the wasabi engine AND winamp5 the greatest products the world has ever seen.

I honestly can't believe they poured all those creative ideas into the wasabi engine just to leave it hanging, it might get side tracked while they prepare winamp5 for release, but as the workload of wa5 cools off, and the execs in aol get of nullsofts back, i can see the platform getting picked up.

In the end, this is about the brilliant people from Nullsoft, having to put out a product because of outside pressure, and then getting flacked when it doesn't work perfectly.


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Old 22nd October 2003, 17:01   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by amano
But there is currently no knob in the modern and classic baseskin to make use of it.
There probably will (atleast for modern) by the time the product goes final (maby even by the time the beta2 goes public (if it does) )
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Old 23rd October 2003, 01:34   #22
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Re: Winamp5: The beginning of the end ?

Quote:
Originally posted by gouta
Well.. i've been watching Winamp growing since 1997. It started as a hack of tomizlav uzelec's amp v0.7.6 (they ceased using it when they released Winamp 2.666 because they pissed off the original author as he realized that the most used player is based on some portions of code he wrote a long time before) and evolved into a full featured media player. As of the year 2000, the crew (originally, Brennan Underwood) started working on Wasabi, the next generation of Winamp. The idea was really tasty: a system which can be extended through a set of components where each one has the ability to use the other's services. They promised to make it cross-platform too.. a promise that they never took into account (it used to be an alpha version available for download but too buggy to be able to evaluate the involved overall effort).

It turned out that Wasabi was partially a failure and backed off to Winamp2. They felt that something need to be done. Winamp2 is 5 years-old ! this is too much for a piece of software kept 'unchanged' by providing the same services through the different releases (91% playing mp3, 7% listenning to shoutcast, 2% playing other file formats). As an 'evolution' they decided to add video support (which is IMHO useless and un-finished), CD ripping and burning capabilities (okay for the former but pointless for the second, IMHO). And as a final step, they merged the Winamp3's skinning engine and TADA: here we go.. that's Winamp5. Well.. i took a look to the beta1: what i've got is a big box w/ a nice but very dense interface w/ too much useless graphical stuff (the scrolling text, the buttons, the menu [hey this is Winamp not OfficeXP]). Too much functionalities placed in 3x2 inches² box. USELESS ! A little voice told me for the first time that this ain't enough for a major release.

Winamp is decaying ? Nevertheless, the beta presented some cool updates such as a compelete update of the preferences dialog box, an AAC encoder (a very nice and cool initiative, you will understand why..), a useless MP3 encoder, an nsv update and some media library bug fixes (i still don't understand why the ML and the playlist co-exist). This is the maximum of what Nullsoft is capable of. Well i don't see why other Winamp version should be released in the future. Winamp development should be 're-thinked'. It's rather interesting to enable the end-user to buy music (for exp. iTunes from Apple) from AOL sites than allowing it to burn his stuff on CDs.

To allow Winamp to survive, Justin should build services upon his favorite piece of code instead of adding some shitty functions. YES ! Winamp has a future but not as an MP3 (or whatever) music player. Some people reported that the iTunes Win32 port offers a better sounding system than Winamp (but w/ a bigger memory footprint). By the way.. AOL locked the MP3 encoder which is available only in the Pro version and agreed for the AAC one to be available for free.. heh.. lame .. because AAC performs better than MP3.. and besides, AAC is a kind of MPEG2 (they use a kind of common code to decode the stream) and hence of MP3.. lol..

I don't think 5 will be the beginning of the end. Since you can choose not to install the extra features like video support and such.
Basically, I think 5 is just like 2, only lots of things has change for the better. Better than 3 obviously.

I am just a normal person sitting on the bench and reading newspaper and having a cup of coffee. Why can't people see that?
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Old 23rd October 2003, 02:18   #23
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Did you even read the post?
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Old 23rd October 2003, 10:58   #24
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Winamp 2

i will use and will continue to use winamp 2 for ever more.

Why?

Because it's light, takes almost no memory or cpu and does exactly what i need it to.
Plays MP3s.
I need it to do no more, Winamp is NOT a video player nor is it a web browser.

Why those features were introduced i do not know. There are hundreds of other video players out there of decent quality but other than winamp and sonique there are not really any other decent mp3 players! Stick with the mp3s and ogg vorbis and other music formats and leave the videos to WMP, Real and others of their ilk.

Mp3 decoding (like winamp 2 has had for ages) and encoding would be a fantastic idea.
i have yet to willingly use the video and web browsing in winamp. My GF does, but she is female so nuff said.

winamp5 will have to be something at special to make me change, i have used winamp since the 1.X releases and i have to say 1 - 2 upgrade was good. 2 - 3 was sh1t and im guessing 3-5 will go the same way as 2-3. But i am willing to wait and see if im wrong!

I have also just seen the download size of winamp 5.
4.5 MEG?!?! how many aol adverts have you got in there?

i love it when i can get my winamp download on to a floppy disk!
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Old 23rd October 2003, 11:03   #25
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Re: Winamp 2

Quote:
Originally posted by usrhlp
i will use and will continue to use winamp 2 for ever more.
C'mon, you can install WA5 as WA2 without any freeform or such things...
If you continue to use 2.9x you will surely miss the better shell integration and free rezize of classic skin windows (yeah, it allready works pretty good in beta 1).
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Old 23rd October 2003, 12:34   #26
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Re: Winamp 2

Quote:
Originally posted by usrhlp
Winamp is NOT a video player nor is it a web browser.
you can chose not to install video support, and the free form skinning and your left with winamp2.81
Quote:
Originally posted by usrhlp

I have also just seen the download size of winamp 5.
4.5 MEG?!?! how many aol adverts have you got in there?
none, the aditional is for free form skinning and the burner support and encoding.
when it goes final there would be lite, standard and full.

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Old 23rd October 2003, 13:44   #27
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Wow, omg, 4.5 megs, thats gonna take like for ever on any connection!
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Old 23rd October 2003, 14:04   #28
Plague
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not on cable/dsl/lan or even isdn 128 and it's even acceptable on isdn 64, so it's just modem surfers who will suffer and even if you do have a modem, if it's 56k it won't take more than like half an hour maximum to download and that's acceptable to me..

face it, applications get larger and larger, that's just the way it is..
But there will always be Lite versions to download for those who dont have the connection or patience enough to download the large version..

-Plague
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Old 23rd October 2003, 16:13   #29
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@DJ Egg

Well.. i think you get it wrong.. my aim wasn't to insult or to prove anything.. i'm just presenting my point of view and basing my proposal on my own analysis (so it may be wrong or inaccurate). The goal was to remind people, mainly whom get over excited about this release, that this ain't enough and that the future of Winamp won't lay on a png/xml skinning engine. Also, to correct the percieved idea that you got about me: I don't hate Winamp. I just LOVE this piece of code. This is all just about paranoia.. I don't like the see crap like iTunes becauming the most used player because of a missing feature in Winamp or something like that. You know, i 'loved' it to the point that i started figuring out his internals since i was 18 years-old. Mwaha haha.. i remember the first time when i wanted to beat Geiss's plugin rendering speed.. heh.. this was good time yeah .. (and i failed too )

Now to the hot section number two: defending my stuff.

Quote:
--------------------
Winamp 5.0 beta 1 = the beginning of a new beginning
--------------------
I hope ! YEAH !.. wait and see.


Quote:
--------------------
Wasabi is not dead (nybergh). Wasabi is the plaform, the engine that all great things can be built on. Winamp3 was the first wasabi-based product. Other developers have and will continue to use wasabi to develop their new applications.
Wasabi-based products can all be cross-platform
Wasabi is definitely NOT a failure
--------------------

Wasabi is 3 years-old man and still no products. This is reality. I know that the working-on crew is very limited but do you expect a major product short-term release based on an unfinished code ? Me, not. However i agree that Wasabi is a very promising platform for Win32 and mainly Linux (*nix/MacOS X too ? oh man..).


Quote:
---------------------
Freeform skin & script support in Winamp 5.x is Wasabi
---------------------

Yeah.. but w/o the big bloating cross-platform code. All the cross-plat. stuff was replaced by the direct Win32 calls to gain some more speed.


Quote:
----------------------
Winamp3 development has been halted, but doesn't mean it will never resurface.
----------------------

Hardly feasible. Mainly for development costs. You know when you're coding some stuff and you know that it won't be used (IMHO, w/ no offense).. Just think about it for a while and be realistic..


Quote:
-----------------------
Video support in Winamp 5.0 beta is NOT useless. Unfinished, yes, but definitely not useless! ("imho", of course)
------------------------

Partially true. So i join your opinion: definitely not useless. Knowing that it's just a wrapper for VCM/DirectShow shit: i'm still not convinced. Needed for the streaming (NSV) ? Video support need to be reworked and enhanced.


Quote:
------------------------
there's a hell of a lot more new features that you obviously haven't found yet... and I'm sure that 99% of users will agree that these are definitely useful.
Just wait till you see beta 2 (if/when it goes public).
------------------------

Okay.. i owe you an apology.. by features, i meant 'core features'. stuff like UNICODE support, better mass tagging (okay, i don't know if they're already implemented. My apologies if it's already done) , better media libray integration, functionalities, better AAC support (i know that there is some legal issues). Not only cosmetic enhancements.


Quote:
-------------------------
more services can (and probably will) be added. Remember, this is 5.0 beta 1. Compare 2.0 with 2.9x (or with 2.81, or with 0.x, 1.x for that matter).
-------------------------

Yeah.. this is true. Actually you have a very limited understanding of the word services . 'services' includes also the commercial ones: i'm wondering what WILL happen if Nullsoft/AOL put on-line a digital music store (just like Apple) where people will connect and buy their music, store, share (?) their best tunes through a per-access/title/[put what you find suitable here] payment service. 0.75 cents per song is a reasonable price. This will stop the audio piracy, increase Nullsoft marketing revenues and everybody will be satisfied. You realize it ? Hey.. we're talking about AOL/Time-Warner. Wake up Justin this is your life's chance..


Quote:
-------------------------
First you say that the cd ripper is ok, then you say it's got a useless MP3 Encoder.
-------------------------

I'll maintain my proposal. You too, you know it's useless. However ripping to Ogg Vorbis or AAC is a better idea. MP3 era is over. Even WMA do a better job. But who is talking about M$ shit ? Ogg and AAC/MPEG4 are good too. MP3 is still the most popular format.. but for how long ? We're evolving ..


Quote:
--------------------------
This is the maximum of what Nullsoft is capable of..
--------------------------

Well, that line represents ideally the top of my anxiety . Definitely, i don't want to see Winamp decaying.


Quote:
--------------------------
Then you come along. Yes, just you. One single person with a negative response..
--------------------------

Is it too negative ? Think about it.. Winamp wouldn't survive if some unexpected, kick ass newer functionalities won't be added. You know, just playing audio files w/ a shaded Winamp window won't suffice nowadays. We (at least I) need much more. Definitely.


I wanna hear from ya !
@+ !
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Old 23rd October 2003, 17:09   #30
usrhlp
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people missed the point of my post, the advert remark was very tongue in cheek! :P

I will admit, that winamp 5 beta 1 is ok, unfortunately it tried to upgrade my 1 MB winamp 2 install into a hulking behemothic 12megabit winamp 5 install but a change of dir soon stopped that!!
i cut it down to 4.5MB after removing the crap that i didn't want and need and soon realised....
Hang on why didn't i just stick with version 2? Its the same thing and less clunky.................
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Old 23rd October 2003, 17:12   #31
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"i'm wondering what WILL happen if Nullsoft/AOL put on-line a digital music store (just like Apple) where people will connect and buy their music, store, share (?) their best tunes through a per-access/title/[put what you find suitable here] payment service. 0.75 cents per song is a reasonable price. This will stop the audio piracy, "

Just like putting tolls on roads stop people driving down them!!
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Old 23rd October 2003, 20:07   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by usrhlp
"i'm wondering what WILL happen if Nullsoft/AOL put on-line a digital music store (just like Apple) where people will connect and buy their music(...)
i would be buying aol shares

could there be a better product for the winamp brand ?

of course there had to be a better song db than napster2 has.
means: better contracts. less whos-that-again-bands.

i think aol could do this.

and don't we forget:

napster is lame. itunes looks like a rotten apple. winamp rocks.
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Old 23rd October 2003, 20:08   #33
DJ Egg
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@usrhlp

imo, I think you're missing the point.

Winamp is Winamp
Whether it's v0.x, 1.x, 2.x, or 5.x

The only separate product in the equation is Winamp3

Winamp 5.0 is the upgrade from Winamp 2.x
Both built on the exact same core.
That's why it installs to the Winamp dir, because it is Winamp.
The same Winamp you've always known and loved.

If, in the installer setup, you uncheck support for the new 5.0 features,
then as people pointed out above, you will be left with the latest Winamp 2.x (call it 2.95 Final if you wish).

Winamp 5.0 Pro - beta 1
- Modern Skin Support
- Audio File Support
[nest]- Sonic Burning/Ripping Support
- AAC Encoding
- MP3 Encoding

Without ^these^ features installed, you have the latest supported version of Winamp 2.

When it goes final, there will be a Standard version as well as the Pro version. There might also be a Lite version, all being well.

The Standard version will include everything from Pro, except for:
- WMA support
- Burning/ripping support (ie. features which require a license that Nullsoft has to pay to the licensor for - the licensors here being: Dolby for AAC encoding, Thomson/FhG for mp3 encoding, Sonic/Veritas for burning, and maybe Xiph for OggVorbis encoding if it is ever implemented)


This will cut the download size to (at a rough guess) approx 2.5 mb (or less?)

Also at a guess, the Lite version would include everything from Standard, except for:
- Modern Skin Support
(and probably none of the following)
- Video support (including: Internet TV - NSV support)
- Media Library

ie. the Lite version will be exactly the same as any Winamp 2.x update,
and will probably weigh in at somewhere between 650kb and 1mb.

However, I've a feeling Nullsoft will want to keep the freeform/modern skin support in there, so there might not be a Lite version, or if there is, it might also come with modern skin support (which will bump the download size up to ~1.5mb, but naturally, you can uncheck support for it in the installation setup)

If all you want is an mp3 player, then whichever version of 5.0 you download, you can uncheck everything in the installer setup (maybe except for DirectSound Output - under "extra audio output support"), and you'll be left with a new update of Winamp 2.x that plays mp3 audio and m3u/pls playlists . . . and does very little else . . . unless you want to install some extra 3rd-party plugins (eg. dsp/fx) and maybe a few classic 2.x skins.

But of course, at the end of the day, it's entirely up to you my friend.
If you're happy with Winamp 2.9x or earlier, then so be it.
It's certainly fine by everyone here . . .
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Old 23rd October 2003, 20:15   #34
usrhlp
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/me Wipes my humour off the ceiling above dj eggs head.
"Sorry bout that guvna, sharnt do no humour jokes no more sir!"
/me tips hat

like i said before "Hang on why didn't i just stick with version 2? Its the same thing and less clunky................."
Its the same thing and less clunky! :P

Still after using beta 1 of winamp 5....im tempted to upgrade!
Winamp is still the best mp3 player out there! i hope it continues that way!
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Old 23rd October 2003, 23:05   #35
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@gouta

Now that's more like it!
If your first post would've been more along those lines, then I would've responded appropriately. I interpreted it as hostile, so I reacted similarly . . . for which I apologize. Believe me, when I looked back at my reply a few minutes after posting it, I felt very tempted to delete the first paragraph . . . mainly due to it's suckiness, lol.

To pick up on some of your points . . .

I'm not going to argue . . .
but I still maintain the fact that wasabi is far far far from dead
and that there are other wasabi-based applications already out there.
Maybe some of the developers who are also forum regulars here (or even Brennan himself) could provide you with a much better reply than mine...

Re: Winamp 5

- UNICODE support is implemented in Beta2 (for modern skins)
- Better AAC support is here, either via the plugin, or the DirectShow Filter.
- Better media library integration . . . in what way exactly, and what with?!
Media Library integration holds the key for soooo much, eg. take a look at http://muse.net plugin (as one example).
If you meant "integration" with other internal winamp components/features, or with Windows itself, or something else, then yeah, anything is possible. The media library plugin system is quite powerful & flexible.
- Better mass tagging . . . well at least it's there! Surely it can only get better and better, in time.

At the end of the day, I think the main thing is that we don't want Winamp to turn into some massively bloated p.o.s. like WMP9, RealOne, MMJB, iTunes, etc. Simplicity and functionality is the key!


btw, to rephrase your assumption from above...
"actually I don't have a very limited understanding of the word services"

@usrhlp
Cool

Humor? Oh yeah, I remember that!
Actually, no-one loves a good laugh more than me, but I must've wrongly assumed that this place was meant to be a serious discussion forum about Winamp, lol

Anyway, I'm glad you like Winamp 5 beta 1 and that you're tempted to upgrade.
Trust me, beta2 and eventually 5.0 final and beyond will be even better!
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Old 24th October 2003, 09:07   #36
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Does Winamp still tags AAC with ID3v1/ID3v2?

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Old 24th October 2003, 09:22   #37
Wish
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Tested with latest internal build, no Unicode support afai can see. Those are suppose to be Japanese chars, but instead they are displayed as ??????? still. Are you sure about this, DJEgg?
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Old 24th October 2003, 09:26   #38
will
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wish
Tested with latest internal build, no Unicode support afai can see. Those are suppose to be Japanese chars, but instead they are displayed as ??????? still. Are you sure about this, DJEgg?
Wish.

Can I inform you that they are currently working on unicode support.

The first phase of this (rather big) change is adding unicode support to modern skins.


Unicode support in classic skins and the rest of the program is on the way.

Are we clear on this?

DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS
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Old 24th October 2003, 09:30   #39
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Yeah, but that version of Winamp5 won't be out anytime soon. Oh well, back to finding bugs in internal build.
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Old 24th October 2003, 19:31   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIV@NVX
Does Winamp still tags AAC with ID3v1/ID3v2?
Yes, but only if you tell it to



Hi Wish
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