Winamp 5.0rc8 Discussion

[Gonzotek]

Originally posted by thepyr0x
well....Wasabi.player isn't complete yet either, is it?
or...is it?
I've only heard bits and pieces about it.

Anyways, doesn't that sound kinda stupid to you?
I mean, the program already supports said scripts; and all it really is is a nice shortcut on the options pane that allows you to load scripts not loaded automatically by the skin itself...
it sounds stupid NOT to include it...

It's little bit more than just a shortcut on the options pane(to the end user that's all it is, but the developer has a bit more to do to make it work). I was told (unofficially) that the script manager (add-ons, whatever it's called) will probably come back, but not with 5.0.

/edit Wasabi.Player is Winamp3. It's built entirely from the codebase of build 499 of Winamp3, plus whatever they've done to it in the last 8 months or so. See http://www.wasabidev.org/ for more info.

/edit to my edit...build 499, not 488-- duh to me.

[ayye_nako]

thanks bro i had the lite version thhats why

[D&B]

Originally posted by Plague
There are still people who are pretty upset about that whole deal with replacing winamp3 with a winamp2/3 hybrid based on 2, not 3.

We know you are upset Plague. You've been the number 1 guy fighting it since the beginning.

I'm not trying to be mean I'm just saying...who cares? WA5 is wicked fast, has most the stuff from winamp 3 (and hopefully theyll throw in a sidecar and wac manager), so what's the difference? I mean, unless your runny linux, I dont see the big deal.

[Ladymercury]

Winamp 5.0rc bug?

Why does the Playlist mess up my video file names. In the older winamps, erm, Winamp 2 and 3... it didn't cut off the tags... now it does.

Example:

PV - Dir en grey - Obscure version 2.mpg

but now it cuts it off to:

PV - Obscure version 2.mpg



Its really frustrating, considering the reason why I named the file that way was because I look in consideration of how my playlist is organized.

If anyone can tell me why, or can help me fix this... I'll appriciate it.

[WhiteRayven]

Thats been mentioned in the Put All Winamp RC bugs Here!!! thread.

[EAK125]

It all has to do with the media library metadata options and the advanced title formatting - you could also have filename columns in the ml and change your ATF for the playlist to properly show your files.

[Plague]

Originally posted by badrad
We know you are upset Plague. You've been the number 1 guy fighting it since the beginning.

I'm not trying to be mean I'm just saying...who cares? WA5 is wicked fast, has most the stuff from winamp 3 (and hopefully theyll throw in a sidecar and wac manager), so what's the difference? I mean, unless your runny linux, I dont see the big deal.

Well, I'm not the only one, tho I might be the one who keep posting about it the most (why I'm even bothering is beyond me)..

Anyways, Linux is not the issue, neither is the features.
It's the fact that they went back to the Winamp 2 codebase.
It doesn't matter if they add a sidecar and WAC loader, it's still based on the aging Winamp 2 codebase.

And to say Winamp 5 is wicked fast doesn't mean much. Wasabi.player is faster, really it is.
Winamp3 #488 was slower but that's a VERY old (and bad) build and a very unfair comparison and you know it.

Still, I like Winamp 5, it's a very good upgrade to Winamp 2.
But it's just that, nothing more.
Winamp3 was a separate product and shouldn't have been affected at all by whatever development direction Winamp was taking.
I also don't like the fact that big bad companies (AOL in this case) rather diss new stuff and go back to old stuff and fix it up a little, instead of waiting for the new stuff to be finished.

Winamp 5 is ready now, but if Winamp3 hadn't been dissed, it would've been ready now too (or maybe even sooner).


Anyways, I don't care anymore as long as Wasabi.player doesn't get ditched too and as long as people aren't talking shit about it, like asking Nullsoft to shut it down (yes some people have done that, even mods).

Shit like that pisses me off.
Other than that, I don't care.
I'm gonna use both players.

-Plague

[WhiteRayven]

Well, I have to say that right now, Winamp is the only thing keeping me from switching to linux on a permanent basis.

I know there are win32 emulators, but i have to wait for a linux build of winamp. I'll wait.

I love winamp. I always have. Always will. I mean, its tight,

[Ladymercury]

Originally posted by EAK125
It all has to do with the media library metadata options and the advanced title formatting - you could also have filename columns in the ml and change your ATF for the playlist to properly show your files.

Thanks

[D&B]

Originally posted by Plague
Well, I'm not the only one, tho I might be the one who keep posting about it the most (why I'm even bothering is beyond me)..

Hey, we need pepole like you to keep projects like that alive.

Originally posted by Plague
It's the fact that they went back to the Winamp 2 codebase.
It doesn't matter if they add a sidecar and WAC loader, it's still based on the aging Winamp 2 codebase.

And that was the point I was addressing. Who really cares what code base they are using, if the performance and features are the same?

Originally posted by Plague
Wasabi.player is faster, really it is. Winamp3 #488 was slower but that's a VERY old (and bad) build and a very unfair comparison and you know it.

Actually, I don't. I gave up on WA3 a while ago, and until I hear you guys talking about an amazing new version of the Wasabi Player, with the new ML and Modern Skin functionality, I wont try it. Like I said, thats why we need people like you to be enthusiastic about shit like that.

As far as I can see, the main difference with the Wasabi Player is 2-fold.

1. Open-source. No matter how bad AOL fucks up future Nullsoft dealings, we got this.

2. Cross-Platform. Someday, hopefully we all be running Linux. This allows us to keep winamp.

I wasn't trying to raise shit, just picking your brain!

Originally posted by Plague
I also don't like the fact that big bad companies (AOL in this case) rather diss new stuff and go back to old stuff and fix it up a little, instead of waiting for the new stuff to be finished.

Really, did you expect anything more from them?

Originally posted by Plague
I don't care anymore as long as Wasabi.player doesn't get ditched too and as long as people aren't talking shit about it, like asking Nullsoft to shut it down (yes some people have done that, even mods).

I havent heard any of that. I think thats silly. Stick it in an open-source location, and let people like you finish it, and years from now, it will blow away anything WA5 thought it could be...sounds good to me!

[D&B]

Originally posted by WhiteRayven
Well, I have to say that right now, Winamp is the only thing keeping me from switching to linux on a permanent basis.

Tell me about it. Linux has come so far. The new desktop managers like KDE are awesome.

For me, its games. Not only PC games, new and old, but emulation. I am a huge emulation addict.

That, and linux still has a ways to go before its as idiot proof and easy to use as Windows, but for people like you and me, its already better.

[WhiteRayven]

yup yup

[WhiteRayven]

Yeah, i am not idiot, but I havent had the time, or money to buy books, to learn linux. Forutatly (this is turning into an OS forum) I have a friend willing to train me.

YAY, I miss command line OS's like DOS.

[Plague]

Originally posted by badrad
Hey, we need pepole like you to keep projects like that alive.

And that was the point I was addressing. Who really cares what code base they are using, if the performance and features are the same?

well, wasabi has more possibilities for one, and I guess I'm simply getting tired of the Winamp 2 codebase.
I don't like that it's not completely skinnable, and the Modern skin support isn't as good as in Wasabi.player/Winamp3, since you don't have as much possibilities when it comes to the standardframe skinning.
etc..
It's the small things..

Actually, I don't. I gave up on WA3 a while ago, and until I hear you guys talking about an amazing new version of the Wasabi Player, with the new ML and Modern Skin functionality, I wont try it. Like I said, thats why we need people like you to be enthusiastic about shit like that.

Modern skin functionality (guess you're talking about the PE_ADD, VID_FS, etc... button actions and stuff like that?) is beeing added. I've added the VID_* button actions and the PE_* actions shouldn't be too long before they are added aswell (I think. There are no promises in wasabi land ).

The ML will probably be a while before it's updated to have the functionality as the one in Wa5 and some stuff may never be added to it.. Dunno.

As far as I can see, the main difference with the Wasabi Player is 2-fold.

1. Open-source. No matter how bad AOL fucks up future Nullsoft dealings, we got this.

2. Cross-Platform. Someday, hopefully we all be running Linux. This allows us to keep winamp.

I wasn't trying to raise shit, just picking your brain!

yea those are two good reasons to continue wasabi development.
There are more tho.

Really, did you expect anything more from them?

Guess I was living in fantasy land for a while...

I havent heard any of that. I think thats silly. Stick it in an open-source location, and let people like you finish it, and years from now, it will blow away anything WA5 thought it could be...sounds good to me!

yea it's silly, but as long as wasabi.player is looked on as a competitor to Winamp 5 or perhaps replacement-wannabe, or even as a failure called Winamp3 #488, some misinformed people will keep posting shit about it on theese forums, telling Nullsoft to shut it down..
It's just the way things are..

oh well, nuff said about this shit.. back to topic

-Plague

[DJ Egg]

Originally posted by Plague
I don't like that it's not completely skinnable...

Here's a sneak preview of DrO's next project

[Plague]

cool!
One down, several to go..

I dunno how he does it but Nullsoft should definitely hire him!

-Plague

[Reaper]

Originally posted by DJ Egg
Here's a sneak preview of DrO's next project

Wow. DrO is unstoppable.

[Carnicero]

Will it work with context menus? That's what's missing from old WA3 freeform skins, skinned rightclick menus.

[evil_oj]

If there's anything that is absolutely impossible to do in WA5 that is quite doable in Winamp3, then we'll have to wait a while, or just put up with Wasabi Player in it's current state.

[Jumper001]

DrO should just bundle all his plugins into one Uber-l33t Winamp 5 Enhancement Pack.

I swear it's hard to keep track of them all now :P

[DJ Egg]

Yeah, tell me about it!
Especially seeing it's me who's got to keep track of them all whilst DrO can't access the forums (hopefully only for a few more days though)...

Here's a quick recap

DrO's plugins

Jump to File Extra
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=152906
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....52#post1182552
http://forums.winamp.com/attachment....postid=1182552 (v0.92a)

Display Change (restores winamp windows if screen resolution changes) *
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=149013
http://forums.winamp.com/attachment....postid=1107506 (v0.3a)

Find File on Disk (find file in explorer command from pledit)
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....34#post1146434
http://forums.winamp.com/attachment....postid=1191755 (v1.0)

One Click Show & Hide v0.9b3 (min/max from systray with one click)
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....39#post1146439
http://forums.winamp.com/attachment.php?postid=1146439

Autoplay and Time Restore Plugin *
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....59#post1096659
http://forums.winamp.com/attachment....postid=1191760 (v1.52)

Playlist File Remover *
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=156387
http://forums.winamp.com/attachment....postid=1191750 (v1.02)

Close after current *
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=157560
http://forums.winamp.com/attachment....postid=1191765 (v1.1)

Extended Playlist (preview only)
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=155731

w00t


* updated today

[2boobs]

why can't he access the forums?

[chros]

Q:
Is any keyboard shortcut for "Toggle Crossfading mode" ?
Because I have to use Classic skin mode (because of mp3cue plugin), and I have to switch to Modern skins to toggle this option ...
If there isn't, may I request it ?

Thanx

[Dextro]

I think that's a modern skin only feature so I don't think there are any keyboard shortcuts in the classic skin at least.

But you can get crossfading using the DirectSound plugin, just go to the output plugins and press configure plugin when you have DirectSound Output selected.

But then again I can be wrong.

[chros]

Originally posted by Dextro
I think that's a modern skin only feature so I don't think there are any keyboard shortcuts in the classic skin at least.

But you can get crossfading using the DirectSound plugin, just go to the output plugins and press configure plugin when you have DirectSound Output selected.

But then again I can be wrong.

If I toggle on the Crossfade button on the Modern Skin, and switch back to the Classic Skin, the playback is still remains crossfaded, which is a greta thing !
But I have to switch between skins if I want to switch On or Off this feature ! That's why I have asked this question ...

So if there isn't, may I request it ?

[D&B]

Originally posted by DJ Egg
Here's a quick recap

Thank you.

Is he an angel?

[DJ Egg]

Originally posted by 2boobs
why can't he access the forums?

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....59#post1188959

[_-id-_]

Well, winamp5 doesn't have freeform capability. But it's so much smoother and faster than winamp3 aka wasabi player. When will there be skins on the actual winamp site? in fact, when will the actual winamp site have a winamp and wasabi section not just winamp2 or 3?

[YtseJam]

Eh? Winamp 5.0 can use both Classic skins (Winamp 2.x skins) and Modern skins (Winamp3 (now Wasabi.Player) skins).

Once Winamp 5.0 will be officially released, the site will change as well.

[DJ Egg]

_-id-_ probably downloaded the Lite version.
The Lite version does NOT support freeform skins
(5.0 Lite is the equivalent of a 2.9x update, mainly for users with older systems)

[EAK125]

@Plague - What is really wrong with the older codebase? Newer isn't always better (look at anything by real - hahaha - real sucks!) so what are the limitations of the wa2 codebase compared to wasabi (other than cross compatability)? Are there things in it that aren't supported anymore or new stuff it dosn't support - if so couln't u just update the codebase to utilize them?!? I'm not a coder so please keep and explanation to a near genius level.

(EAK)

[Gonzotek]

The input-dsp-output system in Winamp2/5 is the bane of many a developer. Winamp3/Wasabi.Player used a totally different method and many developers I've spoken with really wish that had been something carried into Winamp5. Plague (I'm sure) can tell you more about other areas, as he's actually been working with the code and I'm only reporting my observations.

Speaking of dsp, one thing that really stands out as lacking in Winamp5 is the dsp plugins. First: It's the only plugin-type not represented by a full clean Winamp5 install(excepting ml-plugins). I'd think a small clipping limiter would be a perfect example dsp to include as a default (and I suggested as much to the beta list). Second: to my knowledge, the dsp stuff is one of the few aspects of Winamp2 that didn't get any kind of improvement whatsoever in the Winamp5 overhaul. Here's hoping 5.01 or 5.1 brings us natively chainable dsps and a clipping limiter plug in the standard install.

-=Gonzotek=-

[Russ]

Yeah, the in/dsp/out system in Winamp 2/5 is antiquated and really quite hard to develop for.

Wasabi components actually become part of the player - everything in wasabi.player is implemented as a component, and so you can technically replace any part of the player.

That said, wasabi.player has problems of its own, and I can probably rattle off a list of wasabi.player problems several times longer than that of Winamp 5.

And then there's a list of how foobar2k is better than Winamp 5 or wasabi.player... But in the end architecture is not what the user sees. And the user is who makes the decision about which player to use. And the user likes Winamp 5.

...at least until someone writes a kick-ass component for wasabi.player and is told that it's impossible to do in winamp 5.

[EAK125]

So what I am hearing (in really dumbed down verancular) is that you have to make your in/dsp/out plugins force their way into winamp2x\5 through precut holes in the system which limits the way you can make your code.

Kinda back to the square peg\round hole analogy. Gotta trim the edges off to get it through...

Where as in wasabi you can cut your own hole the way u want it and it becomes part of the whole.

Am I close?!?

(EAK)

[Plague]

Originally posted by chros
If I toggle on the Crossfade button on the Modern Skin, and switch back to the Classic Skin, the playback is still remains crossfaded, which is a greta thing !
But I have to switch between skins if I want to switch On or Off this feature ! That's why I have asked this question ...

So if there isn't, may I request it ?

Goto Preferences->Output Plugins->Directsound->Fading and toggle "on end of song".
That's the exact same thing as in the Modern skin.

Originally posted by EAK125@Plague - What is really wrong with the older codebase? Newer isn't always better (look at anything by real - hahaha - real sucks!) so what are the limitations of the wa2 codebase compared to wasabi (other than cross compatability)? Are there things in it that aren't supported anymore or new stuff it dosn't support - if so couln't u just update the codebase to utilize them?!? I'm not a coder so please keep and explanation to a near genius level.

Well, most things Wasabi offers can be, and is beeing, implemented in the Win32 Winamp 2 codebase.
However, the Winamp 2 codebase is still Win32 and it's plugin system isn't nearly as good as Wasabi's component system.
Winamp has most stuff baked right into winamp.exe while in Wasabi, everything is a component, even the core is a separate component and can therefore be replaced if someone makes a better/different one, as can everything else. In Winamp, you're stuck with alot of what they offer since most of it is built right into the .exe.
To the end user tho, the difference won't be that big, tho there are differences even the end user can notice.
For one, the Wasabi skin capability is more limited in Winamp 5 because alot of things have to stay unchanged in order to maintain Classic skin compatibility (that issue could have been solved for both Classic and Modern skins if Wasabi was used as codebase instead). For example, the inner section in the standardframe has a singlecolored background in Winamp 5, where in Wasabi, you can have any background you want. You can't move any content around in there either, where in Wasabi most components have a xml file with the layout specifics, which can easily be overridden. Also, the Pledit in Winamp is so ugly in Modern skins, only to maintain full Classic skin compatibility.
That's a few examples that the end user can notice.

And finally one last thing, speed.
Winamp is faster if you're using Classic skins, BUT Wasabi is faster compared to Winamp using Modern skins.

There are alot more stuff on a coder level that I can't explain myself so you'd have to ask some more experienced Wasabi developer for that.


[Edit]
A couple of posts made it before mine, cos I was watching Tv at the same time as I wrote this

So what I am hearing (in really dumbed down verancular) is that you have to make your in/dsp/out plugins force their way into winamp2x\5 through precut holes in the system which limits the way you can make your code.

Kinda back to the square peg\round hole analogy. Gotta trim the edges off to get it through...

Where as in wasabi you can cut your own hole the way u want it and it becomes part of the whole.

Am I close?!?

Hehe, I like this.
"Kinda back to the square peg\round hole analogy. Gotta trim the edges off to get it through..." lol

Yea you're close..
[/Edit]

-Plague

[Plague]

Originally posted by Russ
...at least until someone writes a kick-ass component for wasabi.player and is told that it's impossible to do in winamp 5.

Checkie the RM-X stickie in the Wasabi Development forum.
Darkain is making such a "kick-ass component" specifically for Wasabi.player and he's saying it's impossible to do some of the stuffs in Winamp 5.

-Plague

[Russ]

Unfortunately, my optimism of anything happening to wasabi.player has been slashed.

See here.



You may go back on-topic now.

[DJ Egg]

omg nooooooooooooooo!

[papadoc]

It never ceases to amaze me...how screwed up AOL is

[gaekwad2]

Quite a common disease: corporate anorexia - keep laying off people to cut costs and maybe make some short-term profit until the company breaks down.