The American weapon-policy

[zootm]

won't someone think of the geeks?

[iomegajaz]

Originally posted by xzxzzx
If you're so concerned about guns, then by that logic we should spend even more effort on lightening strikes, because that kills even LESS people.

"The guns" are a controllable risk. Reduce the guns, reduce the risk. Reducing lightning, however.. could take some real effort.

Americans have the "right" to "bear arms". Yay. I have the "right" to saw my own leg off. Do I excercise this right? No. Then why would I exercise my "right as an American blah blah blah" and put myself and my family in a position where I could accidentally or incidentally kill someone easier than if I didn't own a gun?

Y'know what? Good for you that you can own guns. Congrats. Feel free to have your guns and possibly die because of them. Anyone worth their salt (to me) woudn't put themselves in that position, so yeah. Woot. Go USA.

That's not going to elicit the nicest responses, now is it? Heh. Oops.

Ok, I've said my piece, and am done with this thread. I'll leave you to discuss the pros and cons of the right to potentially shoot each other, now.

[Internet God]

I think there are many guns in the world, not just in U.S.

[wulph]

Sarge keeps making the point that if some armed asshole breaks into his house then at least he's got a gun to defend himself. But I think it's important to note that part of the reason he has a gun is to defend against the idiots that have guns too - basically, they've used the system for wrong while he's used it for right. The thing I have an issue with is, why has society (or the people of a country, or whatever) degraded so much that people decide to use guns to rob people, break into homes, etc., while good people who have no intention of using guns for wrong then are forced to buy one in their own self defense?

I also think part of Sarge's conviction on the issue is because he loves and cares about his family and wants them protected, so he owns a gun. This doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be able to get to it if some doped up moron breaks in, but hey, at least it's there, and given the opportunity, he'd use the gun. It's all about going into darkness for a light purpose, for him.

The issue here isn't the guns. It's the fucked up people in the world who use them for all the bad shit out there, because they're too lazy to get off their asses and help themselves without hurting others (I use hurt in a very broad sense, be it physical harm or psychological by breaking in to a private home, or rape, or whatever). The same applies to alcoholics and drug abusers who simply can't live in the real world without help. It's all the same issue, and it's a personal one: they're unconcious. They're living a completely unconcious existence, without truly thinking at all. They're not listening to their "higher thoughts" and are only focused on what that stupid little chatterbox of a brain tells them to do, because it feels good, or it would be fun, or whatever. Take the term "higher thoughts" to mean whatever you want. For me, it means listening to my soul and following my life's purpose. It's a very spiritual/esoteric view, but that is another discussion.

I don't own a gun, but I understand the idea behind protecting family and self. I have never started a fight in my life, but believe me, I would finish one, because I want to go home to my family, my fiancee, I want to father her children and be there for them while they are growing up. This doesn't mean I'll go out and buy a gun to do it, in all honesty I don't believe in guns for defence. But I'd fight until I had nothing left in me and then fight some more just to see my loved ones.

And if some idiot broke into my home with a gun, I'd do my best not to give him a chance to use it. If he did, well, chances are good I never would have had a chance to get my gun if I owned one anyway.

That may be what Sarge is getting at.

Am I for guns? No. Am I for gun registration? Can't say, don't know enough about it. What I would like to see though, is rather than worrying about the results of the issue (the guns), let's look at the cause: the people. Even if everyone in the world owned 80 guns, if no one had a need to use them, it wouldn't matter.

That doesn't make the motto "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" right, however. The guns do kill people, because if that same person had a bat, it'd be a hell of a lot harder to kill someone. If it wasn't so damn easy to get a gun, then people like Sarge might never have felt the need to buy one of their own to defend themselves.

It's a complex issue. Props to everyone for being very civilised about it.

My $.02

-r-

[godoncrack]

I'm all for getting rid of ALL guns.
This way I could conquer the world with a lousy butter knife.

[ScorLibran]

/me challenges godoncrack's butter knife with his pointy stick...

[xzxzzx]

Though I've said my piece on that this is inherantly a stupid thing to be talking about as though it's a huge issue when other things are monumentally bigger - like killing termites while your house is burning down... But oh well, it's not nearly as fun to argue about those anyway.

To me, gun control is like saying "it's OK for you to be crazy, we'll just stop you from hurting yourselves". It's like being in an insane asylum. You know what?

I want a world where people that are found driving drunk are given five shots of tequila and sent on their way. And, if by the time another officer sees them, they're still alive, give them another five. Repeat.

I want a world where having a gun is not only OK, but encouraged.

I want a world where if someone attempts to rob a quickie mart, they're shot before they leave the store.

I want a world where drugs are legal.

I want a world where abortions are legal and encouraged.

Maybe then all the stupid people would die, and I wouldn't have to deal with this shit. People should not need to be handled like a danger to themselves. Evolution seems to be a damn good system and it's only our fucking with it that has led to this fucked up society.

People have been killing people for as long as people have existed. First it was clubs, then it was sharp instruments, then it was bow & arrow. And now it's guns. And in 100 years, it'll probably be something else.

Can one person kill more because of guns now? Superficially, yes. Except back 1000 years ago, other people were the real weapons of choice - and still are. You can do a lot more with 100 people than one with nearly any weapon.

What if every Jew in Germany had had a gun? What then?

I don't speak for the rest of the world, but the US government is not as pretty as propaganda would have you believe, and I doubt any other government is as pretty as you think.

So while the world continually goes a little bit more insane, and a little bit closer to one giant padded cell, I'll just sit here and wonder what it could've been like.

[Fickle]

Originally posted by Hugh
"The guns" are a controllable risk. Reduce the guns, reduce the risk. Reducing lightning, however.. could take some real effort.

Americans have the "right" to "bear arms". Yay. I have the "right" to saw my own leg off. Do I excercise this right? No. Then why would I exercise my "right as an American blah blah blah" and put myself and my family in a position where I could accidentally or incidentally kill someone easier than if I didn't own a gun?

Shooting an animal or intruder is not the same as chewing off a limb.

Y'know what? Good for you that you can own guns. Congrats. Feel free to have your guns and possibly die because of them. Anyone worth their salt (to me) woudn't put themselves in that position, so yeah. Woot. Go USA.

So how would you prevent a family "putting themselves into the position" of being robbed by an armed individual, or any individual. I fail to see the way they could prevent moving into a home they could afford and be rewarded with burglars. (BTW, My family must have put ourselves into this position 4 times, because that's how many times we were broken into. And we never shot anyone.)

Ok, I've said my piece, and am done with this thread. I'll leave you to discuss the pros and cons of the right to potentially shoot each other, now.

This is the part I don't understand. How am I going to kill someone if I was raised not to use a gun in any fashion to harm any person?

[godoncrack]

He was just ragging on a principle he doesn't understand.
Its very much alien to him.
But then again, I guess thats why this thread was made.

[Fickle]

I just think it's funny when people say Americans, but then say effectually, "Not you." Well, what the fuck. I'm an American, and as an average, we're not killing each other with guns nearly as much as we're dying of heart related problems, which run in my family (rampantly, I might add), so I am not really worried about dying from a bullet fired from my brother by accident (which would never happen for quite a few reasons; For those curious: You don't carry a loaded gun unless out in the field, you point your gun either towards the sky or towards the ground (the sky is better, as the ground things can riccochet, You never have your safety off.) than me dying of a heart attack at forty when I still have half my life lying in front of me like a string to follow home.

lol. The highlighted area is all one sentance.

[Futile]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm

Although we all know that the bbc is all just a bunch of right wing lies. I only had time to read the first two pages, sorry if this has been posted before.

[zootm]

Originally posted by Fickle
I'm an American, and as an average, we're not killing each other with guns nearly as much as we're dying of heart related problems...

then start a thread about heart problems

[wulph]

Originally posted by xzxzzx
So while the world continually goes a little bit more insane, and a little bit closer to one giant padded cell, I'll just sit here and wonder what it could've been like.

Well said, x.

I'm just a little more for the idea of doing something about it, though not necessarily in regards to guns and their control. I'll restate that the issue is not the guns, but the people, and we CAN do something about people. Guns are a lot harder.

-r-

[sgtfuzzbubble011]

Sarge keeps making the point that if some armed asshole breaks into his house then at least he's got a gun to defend himself. But I think it's important to note that part of the reason he has a gun is to defend against the idiots that have guns too - basically, they've used the system for wrong while he's used it for right. The thing I have an issue with is, why has society (or the people of a country, or whatever) degraded so much that people decide to use guns to rob people, break into homes, etc., while good people who have no intention of using guns for wrong then are forced to buy one in their own self defense?

I also think part of Sarge's conviction on the issue is because he loves and cares about his family and wants them protected, so he owns a gun. This doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be able to get to it if some doped up moron breaks in, but hey, at least it's there, and given the opportunity, he'd use the gun. It's all about going into darkness for a light purpose, for him.

The issue here isn't the guns. It's the fucked up people in the world who use them for all the bad shit out there, because they're too lazy to get off their asses and help themselves without hurting others (I use hurt in a very broad sense, be it physical harm or psychological by breaking in to a private home, or rape, or whatever). The same applies to alcoholics and drug abusers who simply can't live in the real world without help. It's all the same issue, and it's a personal one: they're unconcious. They're living a completely unconcious existence, without truly thinking at all. They're not listening to their "higher thoughts" and are only focused on what that stupid little chatterbox of a brain tells them to do, because it feels good, or it would be fun, or whatever. Take the term "higher thoughts" to mean whatever you want. For me, it means listening to my soul and following my life's purpose. It's a very spiritual/esoteric view, but that is another discussion.

I'm glad someone understands what I've been trying to say.

[ertmann|CPH]

well, im basicly just saying that the fucked up people in the world, have an easier time hurting people because guns are so easily aviable.