Thanks for the info cool dude but i already went completely thru frisbeemonkeys tut. i was able to complete the tut on the skin without any help. now i'm trying to make another freeform skin of my own design and i'm still confused on the standard frame. please let me know where i'm going wrong. as i see it the standardframe is for skinning the pl, ml, titlebar, menu and ???? don't you have to set up the standardframe when you start a skin which will have seperate windows for the pl, ml? is there anyway that i can view my progress on the standardframe as i go? i understand the basics behind the tranparency (regions) and i downloaded frisbeemonkeys component skinning tut but i'm still having trouble. all other aspects of the skinning i'm o.k. with. Please help if you can. i could just use the code from the 5.08 skin but then i would not be accomplishing anything. i really have no coding experience other than frisbeemonkeys tut but i was able to change his design and make a skin which works fine. i'm really enjoying this but i'm a little stumped. thanks again.