Re-Encoding on server, creates "title buffer"

M.Doe · 17th March 2006, 16:34

Hey guys/girls

Could need some serius help or suggestions on this one.

Running shoutcast on a webserver with remote access (win2k3).

Sending 1 stream 192Kbit from the local computer to the servers shoutcast-server.

On the server Winamp runs and plays localhost:8000
it re-encodes the 192 stream to 192, 128, 96, 56Kbits and sends this to 4 new ports the user can connect to.

It works perfectly and the listener can choose the bitrate he/she can handle.

Now theres one problem.
Running Winamp listening to "localhost" makes it buffer the "title/names" of the tracks after a while.
Sometimes it takes an hour or more other times it takes 20minutes.

The streams sounds good still, but the titles isnt displayed properly due to winamp buffering it constantly.

The D.N.A.S pages says : buffer 20% Artist, Title
and the users winamp only shows the radio's name and no title at all.

If you connect to the incoming feed to the server as a user the titles are fine.. So i know this is Winamp creating the problem.

Now there has to be some way to re-encode a stream to several bitrates directly on the server to save tremendus amount of bandwith from where im streaming it instead of having 5diffrent streams on the home connection to the public server.

I've also installed IceCast to try run an Ogg stream instead and re-encode this one but end up with the same problem in winamp.. Pre-buffering.

Any ideas or hints would be welcome. and if it can handle ogg aswell as the incoming feed it would be even better..

Bahh.. prob a nubbish question.. but i cant figure this one out..

Thanx in advance.. and feel free to ask any Q's if i explained this in a poor way.

hackerdork · 17th March 2006, 16:40

Look at taskmanager and I bet your winamp is taking most of the RAM and CPU . Is the shoutcast broadcaster server on the same network or over the internet? That another thing to consider.... Eating all your availble upstream speed. So the big question is how fast of and UPLOAD/upstream do you have ?

Don't belive the ISP, belive the tests you can run, like those on DSL http://www.dslreports.com and other sites.

Cheers.

~ DK

M.Doe · 17th March 2006, 17:29

lemme see if i can explain this better..

The webserver (win2k3) is a public server, dual core, 2GB Ram and yada yada..
No bandwith limit, and yes. its expensive..

The server holds 2 diffrent radios.
1 of the radios is running as is.. 1 SC session reciving the feed and users connects to it..
No problem at all on this one.

2nd radio is using winamp locally on the server to listen to the incoming feed on a designated port, this port is not public.

From here winamp reads a 192Kbit stream(and atm an ogg stream for testing.same result though).

Winamp then sends this 192Kbit stream to 4 new ports: 56, 96, 128, 192 which are public.

This works good aswell.. No buffers at all on the stream.

The problem is that the "title" of the artist/track ens up in a "buffer state" in winamp.

So winamp is constantly "buffering" the title/artists name and it looks seriusly bad.

So what im trying to do here is to have 1 incoming feed to the server, from the server itself send the stream to the public ports in 4 diffrent bitrates...

But how do i solve the issue with winamp buffering the title all the time ?

My first thought was that it was a BW issue..
So after some sever testing and even down to 56Kbit incoming feed, and testing with ogg as it provides a better quality in a lower bitrate, Winamp still ends up buffering the title name.

I could use Sam Broadcaster and re-broadcast with that one. But i find that it takes alot of resources and dont want to run that on the public server and i've noticed other issues with it.

I used my good skills and made a picture to describe the setup better.

M.Doe · 17th March 2006, 18:33

Actually...

Think we can kill this subject..

Stream TranscoderV3 , fixed the issue... no need for Winamp to do the job

jeffy777 · 17th March 2006, 18:37

Well, you could just have the source originating on the server as well, as in having all your mp3s up there and playing in Winamp. That's what I do with one of my stations on my win2k3 and I manage it with VNC. The Title display seems to be solid.

EDIT: posted that before I saw your last post

What is Stream TranscoderV3 ?

M.Doe · 17th March 2006, 19:17

Stream Transcoder V3 URL is a software that lets u listen to an incoming stream and "re-broadcast" it in diffrent bitrates to several other SC-servers.

The setup i've done now is :

Main server (from where i stream): Sam Broadcaster, broadcasting Ogg 192Kbit.

Public server (win2k3):

* Icecast 2 , reciving the feed and lets ppl connect to it listening to .ogg instead of mp3.

* Stream Transcoder V3 - Listening to the icecast server, splits up the stream to atm 4 diffrent bitrates (56,96,128,192) and re-broadcast them to the 4 designated public SC-Servers (software that is).

That way i im now hosting 5 diffrent stream formats and only using 1 outgoing feed on the "home" connection.
Sending it in high quality and gets resampled to 4 diffrent bitrates in mp3, plus IceCast giving ppl the oppertunity to listen to .Ogg in an even higher quality.

Setup was fairly easy and should aswell be able to support ACC+.. Still have to try setup this one (thats for tonight).

Feel free to pm if needed or post here.

17th March 2006, 16:34	#1
M.Doe Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 5	Re-Encoding on server, creates "title buffer" Hey guys/girls Could need some serius help or suggestions on this one. Running shoutcast on a webserver with remote access (win2k3). Sending 1 stream 192Kbit from the local computer to the servers shoutcast-server. On the server Winamp runs and plays localhost:8000 it re-encodes the 192 stream to 192, 128, 96, 56Kbits and sends this to 4 new ports the user can connect to. It works perfectly and the listener can choose the bitrate he/she can handle. Now theres one problem. Running Winamp listening to "localhost" makes it buffer the "title/names" of the tracks after a while. Sometimes it takes an hour or more other times it takes 20minutes. The streams sounds good still, but the titles isnt displayed properly due to winamp buffering it constantly. The D.N.A.S pages says : buffer 20% Artist, Title and the users winamp only shows the radio's name and no title at all. If you connect to the incoming feed to the server as a user the titles are fine.. So i know this is Winamp creating the problem. Now there has to be some way to re-encode a stream to several bitrates directly on the server to save tremendus amount of bandwith from where im streaming it instead of having 5diffrent streams on the home connection to the public server. I've also installed IceCast to try run an Ogg stream instead and re-encode this one but end up with the same problem in winamp.. Pre-buffering. Any ideas or hints would be welcome. and if it can handle ogg aswell as the incoming feed it would be even better.. Bahh.. prob a nubbish question.. but i cant figure this one out.. Thanx in advance.. and feel free to ask any Q's if i explained this in a poor way.

17th March 2006, 16:40	#2
hackerdork Forum King Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Earth Circa sometime. Posts: 3,297	Look at taskmanager and I bet your winamp is taking most of the RAM and CPU . Is the shoutcast broadcaster server on the same network or over the internet? That another thing to consider.... Eating all your availble upstream speed. So the big question is how fast of and UPLOAD/upstream do you have ? Don't belive the ISP, belive the tests you can run, like those on DSL http://www.dslreports.com and other sites. Cheers. ~ DK ~ According to the ship's log we're down to our last 3000 vomit bags.It'll never be enough. search the forums! don't PM me on how-to, or ask me to setup you system. you do it so you learn.

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17th March 2006, 18:33	#4
M.Doe Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 5	Actually... Think we can kill this subject.. Stream TranscoderV3 , fixed the issue... no need for Winamp to do the job

17th March 2006, 18:37	#5
jeffy777 Major Dude Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 622	Well, you could just have the source originating on the server as well, as in having all your mp3s up there and playing in Winamp. That's what I do with one of my stations on my win2k3 and I manage it with VNC. The Title display seems to be solid. EDIT: posted that before I saw your last post What is Stream TranscoderV3 ?

17th March 2006, 19:17	#6
M.Doe Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 5	Stream Transcoder V3 URL is a software that lets u listen to an incoming stream and "re-broadcast" it in diffrent bitrates to several other SC-servers. The setup i've done now is : Main server (from where i stream): Sam Broadcaster, broadcasting Ogg 192Kbit. Public server (win2k3): * Icecast 2 , reciving the feed and lets ppl connect to it listening to .ogg instead of mp3. * Stream Transcoder V3 - Listening to the icecast server, splits up the stream to atm 4 diffrent bitrates (56,96,128,192) and re-broadcast them to the 4 designated public SC-Servers (software that is). That way i im now hosting 5 diffrent stream formats and only using 1 outgoing feed on the "home" connection. Sending it in high quality and gets resampled to 4 diffrent bitrates in mp3, plus IceCast giving ppl the oppertunity to listen to .Ogg in an even higher quality. Setup was fairly easy and should aswell be able to support ACC+.. Still have to try setup this one (thats for tonight). Feel free to pm if needed or post here.