Loudcity and USA

[DJ_{Sullecy}]

I will start a radio station server using a stream host service. The server will be on USA but i don't live in USA!!
I mean then the server the service is providing is located in USA but i don't live in USA!!
Can I Use The Servive?

I know i drive you mad but plz answer me!

[Greg_E]

You can use any server world wide, but if you target audience isn't listening from the USA you might (still) have legal problems.

Example: Streams in the UK can not allow users from the USA to listen to their streams. Why? Because some stupid corporate minded legal team decided that the rights they pay for music in the UK only apply to the UK, not outside it's borders. Talk about killing creative individuals. I don't really know what other countries are doing to stop people from listening in other countries, or if the owners really care. Eventually the politicians will screw us all and no one will be able to listen to anything anywhere or at anytime.

Here's an example:
I used to be able to listen to this staion in the USA:
http://www.iwradio.co.uk/
Now when I click on their listen link I get this:

Apologies

Our streaming services are only available to listeners in the United Kingdom


Due to a new licencing agreement which came into effect on April 1st between commercial radio companies in the UK and PPL, the body which licences the broadcast of recorded material in the UK, we no longer hold a licence to broadcast in any format outside of the United Kingdom. We have to take reasonable steps to ensure that our services are made unavailable to listeners from outside the UK or face royalty demands from other licencing bodies around the world.

We are disappointed that this action has been taken but recognise the concerns raised by the licencing bodies and so are complying with the order.

Again, we apologise for the inconvenience this has caused.

Some UK-based AOL customers may experience difficulties. Please contact us via the website for further information

[DJ_{Sullecy}]

Then is there any licence that makes the server legal WORLDWIDE?

[DJ-NickyB]

no not at the moment the only way i see round it all is to pay for all the licences which would cost a fortune and really is not worth it .

so for the time being at least stations have to stick to the rules .

[Greg_E]

It's all pretty stupid, either way the artist is getting paid, and that is always their big problem. They cry that the artist isn't getting their money when you XXXX or YYYYY when in fact it is the big organizations that aren't getting their money.(RIAA being the biggest whiner)

ASCAP lists on their site that 85% goes back to the artists... How many millions is that 15%?


When you report that 500 listeners used song X, then the artist gets paid for 500 listeners... Who cares where those listeners are when they listen. The entire music industry needs a serious global reform in the royalties department. The UK is just the first to make this requirement, other greedy companies will follow. There is one thing that you can be sure of, greed is driving their motives.

/eor

Now that said, I have yet to read anything that says if you pay USA fees that the music must only be consumed in the USA. So it might be safe to pay the USA fees, and use a USA streaming supplier like Loud City. It's probably a gray area at this point in time in the USA, but in the UK I'm sure someone will get bent out of shape because they aren't seeing the money. In the end, only you can decide what to do... You can try to force reform in your local politics, or you can play along nicely, or you can be illegal and not pay anyone anything. Please keep in mind that I am not a lawyer, I'm an engineer that has recently had to look into all the fees for our college stream. It really is a twisted undocumented path, and it makes it hard to do the right thing. I think they keep it hard to cut down in the amount of paperwork for all these little netcasters.

[SorceryKid]

The UK is just the first to make this requirement, other greedy companies will follow.

This is an interesting topic. However, I am inclined to disagree with this statement.

Public performance is a reserved right that applies to each jurisdiction in which a broadcast is to be made available to the public -- hence the term "public performance." In other words, the location of the streaming server is trivial; the location of the streaming receiver is principal.

By tradition, ASCAP and BMI Webcaster licensing extends only to the territorial United States because these are U.S.-based performance rights organizations. Thus, one cannot legally transmit music into the United Kingdom with only an ASCAP and BMI license. Likewise, SoundExchange does not have the legal authority to execute licensing for the digital transmission of sound-recordings outside of the United States. (While the IFPI has produced an international Webcaster agreement for this purpose, SoundExchange is still not yet a signatory.)

Public Performance Limited are enforcing a legal precedent that has long existed in intellectual property law. In comparison to SoundExhange, PPL are what a performance rights organization should be about -- protecting and enforcing the rights of its members.

If you have further licensing questions, I would advise speaking with an attorney for qualified legal advice.

--Randall

[DJ_{Sullecy}]

All License - Companies are too greedy!

Ok I Got the Stuff about UK!

But the thing is different about loudcity!
http://www.loudcity.net/Resources/Ho...3/Default.aspx

Doesn' say anything about ur location, or where the listeners are! I understood what u all said and i thank you, BUT can any1 make a CLEAN answer
about how legal it is to cast with loudcity as a license - server? And where? Thank You! This gonna help all new broadcasters ! Not just me!

[SorceryKid]

If you have concerns about a company's policies, it's best to direct them to the company in question directly. Seeking legal consultation on a public forum is not advisable.

--Randall

[FS-Randy]

Originally posted by SorceryKid
If you have concerns about a company's policies, it's best to direct them to the company in question directly. Seeking legal consultation on a public forum is not advisable.

--Randall

Couldn't be stated better...

[sputnik radio]

Here ya go: http://www.ppluk.com/ppl/ppl_cd.nsf/PDFs/$file/PPLinformationSheets.pdf


oh and by the way the new Extended PPL is now being offered at http://webradioworld.com The only way you can be protected under their PPL is if you are hosted on their servers. Which are competitively priced as well.


I told you guys about this a long time ago but some of you just scorned me and laughed at me.


WEll guess what? I can legally broadcast in and out of 30 countries. Most of the ones that matter anyway.

cheers.

[swcastnetwork]

That is questionable. A PRS license is required to stream music into the United Kingdom. Further, an ASCAP license is required to stream music into the United States. The vendor at the link supplied above does not appear to have procured agreements from either collecting society.

Also, as mentioned previously, SoundExchange is not yet a signatory to the IFPI international Webcaster agreement. It is rather unlikely that PPL can administer license agreements for the performance of sound-recordings into the United States.

[sputnik radio]

Originally posted by swcastnetwork
That is questionable. A PRS license is required to stream music into the United Kingdom. Further, an ASCAP license is required to stream music into the United States. The vendor at the link supplied above does not appear to have procured agreements from either collecting society.

Also, as mentioned previously, SoundExchange is not yet a signatory to the IFPI international Webcaster agreement. It is rather unlikely that PPL can administer license agreements for the performance of sound-recordings into the United States.

either way it still provides more coverage over more territories then LC or L365

[SLR]

DJ Sullecy,

I'm personally not aware of any UK stream hosting company being authorised to collect royalties on behalf of the PPL and PRS. May I respectfully suggest you contact PPL direct to confirm whether any such company exists. Likewise, you might want to do the same with PRS.

If the company you mention is authorised by both authorities, then this is indeed great news for UK broadcasters.

[sputnik radio]

I already contacted PPL once already and this is a copy of our dialouge

From : Matt McAleer <matt.mcaleer@ppluk.com>
Sent : Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:35 AM
To : "peklama@hotmail.com" <peklama@hotmail.com>
Subject : FW: Do you have a license with webradioworld.com?

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Dear John,

Thank you for your enquiry.

I can confirm that PPL is currently in the process of arranging a licence
agreement with Web Radio World that will allow its users to use PPL repertoire
in their broadcasts.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards,

MATT MCALEER
Broadcast Licensing Executive

PPL VPL
1 Upper James Street, London W1F 9DE
T +44 (0)20 7534 1205 / F +44 (0)20 7534 1111
matt.mcaleer@ppluk.com
www.ppluk.com / www.vpluk.com

The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) are confidential, may be
legally privileged, and are for use only by the intended recipient(s). If you
are not an intended recipient, you must not use or disclose the contents to
anyone; instead, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail or by
calling +44 (0)20 7534 1000 and then delete this email. Unless indicated
otherwise, this email does not represent the views of, and is not legally
binding on, PPL or VPL (neither of which accept any liability for it), to the
extent permitted by law. Phonographic Performance Limited ("PPL") and Video
Performance Limited ("VPL") are registered in England and Wales at 1 Upper James
Street, London W1F 9DE with company nos. 00288046 and 01818862 respectively.
Please review the contents of this email to confirm which of PPL and VPL it is
from.




"j t" <peklama@hotmail.com>
08/11/2006 16:32

To
ppo.info@ppluk.com
cc

Subject
Do you have a license with webradioworld.com?







I am licensed through webradioworld.ocm
do they have a license with ppl?

NOw of course this email is a few months old and the "negotiations" mentioned have already occured and the agreement is in order.