Old 27th March 2009, 03:35   #1
thenewyorkbeat
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RIAA New Conditions? URGENT

I have heard rumors, that NO ONE who is not licensed, may re-broadcast music on their station. One of my friends, has changed his stations format because of it. You can no longer play music

Is This True?
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Old 27th March 2009, 03:41   #2
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Well.. It isn't legal to broadcast music protected by copyright unless you have releases from all the copyright holders or pay royalties. That's the law and it's not new.

So yes, broadcasting your music collection requires legal coverage. For licensing, you might find useful info in my signature.
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Old 27th March 2009, 04:33   #3
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But, do you know how many stations are on SHOUTCAST, and there broadcasting illegaly??
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Old 27th March 2009, 05:36   #4
Brutish Sailor
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Their is a few, and this isnt really a good public discussion.

Want to see change? I have personally contacted more than 6 DJ's trying to syndicate a live show. They stay legal, I get more live action, it pulls more of our community together, and we all win. A Joint license is a affordable way to keep legal for all small broadcasters.

I wont go into details, I will just say this. If you dont have a huge following, you could easily support a license for $35 - $50. Even cheaper than that!

ALSO. BIG ALSO.
You are allowed to license your DNAS. keep tis in mind.

You will not find a true guide on this as NO ONE wants to lead you in the wrong direction. BUT look to a licensing group, and they will break down the rules.


Cant afford the fees, but already have a webhost? Or just want to legally stream from DNAS as a zero cost setup? When I first found out about the Fees I flipped out.

But I met some REALLY cool underground stations. A couple of guys that legally stream from underground.

How do you get a successful legal underground station?

HIT THE UNPUBLISHED band boards, lots of them out there. Even on Myspace! If you are a networking kind of guy, this is where shoutcast is right up your alley.

1) Check out the unpublished band boards. The music is sole property to them provided they dont have a record lable.

1) Listen to who your going to play. If their demos sound like it came off a garage tape recorder, but you like them, write them. TELL THEM THEY ARE GOOD! then tell them the demo sounds like crap, and you really want to play them on air, and ask if they have any better demos. This is why I LOVE industrial artist. They understand what I mean when I say, "can you send me a demo of your song in MP3 96kbps stereo format?"

2) Tell them you DO NOT play cover songs on the air, as you do not want yourself or them to be sued.

3) make sure you confirm their permission. YOU need to have their permission to play their intellectual property, rather they have songs copyrighted or not.

3) Usually the pub bands have a board. LET THEM KNOW that you are a internet radio owner (sounds a lot better than shoutcaster) looking to air bands. Try to keep it in a specific genre. You don't want to seem desperate, you want to seem like your in a good place for an opportunity for both the band and you to benefit, and that's the black and white of it. You have to believe that, or this is not your thing.

4) Hit your local community's. TONS of bands are waiting to be heard, and this is your opportunity to form a personal relationship with them. Get into their concerts. Do live interviews. Support their shows.

5) Keep in touch with them. If they feel your good for their PR, they will SEND you more stuff as its released. They hit it big, and you have friends in high places in the music community.

6) Support your bands! You are now part of their team, and if they are giving you the privilege to play their stuff, you have an obligation to support their shows.

7) Network your station. Their are TONS of local zines out their that will do plug me for plugging you deals. You now have bands that say ,"I'm on the air at X radio" and X is your station!

So it is possible to run an underground legal station. Its time consuming, but you DJ because you love music and if you dont spend money on your station OR dont want to put time into it, is shoutcast really right for you?

Anyone feel free to add something I missed here.

KNSJ.org 89.1 FM San Diego
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Old 27th March 2009, 05:45   #5
Brutish Sailor
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just so you think Im not BSing you:



Cool, I appreciate the consideration. Do you need a hard copy of anything? My previous band 4 had 2 record deals on the table (Bodog and Second City) but (EDIT). If you want to play any of that, you may also. I still own the rights and would like it to be heard. You can find it here http://musicnation.com/music/4 "Fall" was our big song, "Believe" was to be the follow-up. Whatever works.
Thanks
BK



Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 07:19:37 -0800
From: EDIT
To: EDIT
Subject: Re: Hey Shoutcast guy


I just needed your consent. I'm a small time radio broadcaster of moral ethic's, and a lot of respect for the local bands. To broadcast music without contacting the band first is ethically wrong, and makes me an asshole to the small webcasting community if a band gets pissed. If you have a demo in particular you want heard just send it to me.

I got together with some buddies last night, and were going in on a loud city station. Very cool thing, you will get more publicity than I figured. Just crushed my pipe dream of 24/7 broadcasting. Thanks for being one of 4 bands to write me back, as soon as I get the new digital station set up, I'll send you a link.

Thanks for being there for the radio community!
DJ Brutish Sailor

--- allthings4@hotmail.com wrote:

From: EDIT
To: EDIT
Subject: Hey Shoutcast guy
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:51:45 -0600

I don't care, you can play our music all day if you think you have an audience for it.
What do you need from me?
BK






Its that easy. You wont get mail overnight from these bands, but give it two weeks, and 200 bands written you like, and see what happens.

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Old 27th March 2009, 12:37   #6
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Just to make things absolutely clear..... If you read far enough, the evil RIAA wants money for stations that are ALL TALK too. Not entirely sure how they think they should get money when the content is completely talk with music beds that the station creates from pay one time licensed material or loops purchased from Sony, etc.

I'm sure this has been well hidden on the Sound Exchange website, but take my word it was once there in black and white.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 27th March 2009, 12:39   #7
dotme
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Quote:
Originally posted by thenewyorkbeat
But, do you know how many stations are on SHOUTCAST, and there broadcasting illegaly??
"There's safety in numbers" only works until you're caught.

Having said that, many stations do operate beneath the radar and are never caught. Problem is, the fines if you are caught are not cheap (somthing like up to $100,000 per song played).

LouodCity & Live365 both cover royalties for people who want to stream legally. And Brutish Sailor has posted a good alternative, which is to secure permission from the copyright holders on each song (there are several to worry about... Artist, Label (if any), Composer, Songwriter)

Your friend who recently felt they had to change their format... well, they can get coverage if they want. I'm guessing this is a hobby for them, and most people expect to spend a little money on their hobby.
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Old 27th March 2009, 16:57   #8
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This is not new, it's been the law for years. Don't think
you're small enough and they'll ignore you either. Easiest
way for them to find you is just go through the directory
here. After all, you do want listeners right...


If you play any music that a US listener can get to, you'll
need the written permission of the artist performing the
track,

for UK, you need to acquire both MCPS-PRS (UK equivalent of
ASCAP, BMI, SEASAC which compensate songwriters, composers)
and PPL (UK equivalent of SoundExchange which compensate the
artists performing the track).

here's a partial repost that I wrote on royalty issue on the Tech forum (with a correction on listening hours for
microcasters)


-----

To get your own performance licensing, SoundExchange currently
offers the "microcaster" license which is $500/year + $100/year
to waive the reporting requirements. Microcasters are limited
to 18,076 total listening hour for the whole year.

any more than that, you would have to apply for the next
level up which is the Small Commercial Webcaster license which carries
a $2000 annual non-refundable minimum and is in effect for
the calendar year (there's also various revenue, operating
cost, listener hour restrictions for the SCW).

and that's before paying for your own hosting, bandwidth,
A/B/S (Ascap/BMI/SEASAC)

-----

just as a disclaimer, I'm an employee of Live365 on the
plumbing side, my opinion on this does not reflect the opinion
of my employer. Only reason why I would even know this is
because we deal with this every day.

don't send gripes to me, I just state what I know. Contact
the various royalty agencies for confirmation.

-----
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"Disclaimer - My opinions here are my own, and my legal expertise are suspect at best (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night :P"
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:19   #9
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as for the talk stations, music in the background of the talk
program or in-between the program (like jingles and bumpers
can also be subject to royalties, but the issue is very
complicated, so if you're buying it from a company check with
them (but you might also want to double-check with a professional
hairsplitter).

at least RIAA can't come after you for the talk part...

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Old 27th March 2009, 17:40   #10
Brutish Sailor
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And they do watch.

I'm sorry to say Brutiish that (EDIT) is not willing to sponsor a free (or even paid) Shoutcast streamer at this time because of the stupidity of one user playing pre-release albums with it set to public and was WELCOMING stream capturing, which got it up to a high of 85 users before RIAA stepped in




Nuff said there.
Idiots like this are ruining this hobby for people like us.

Keep in mind as well that if your part of Joint Licensing Agreement, you don't fall under these high cost for a your own performance license.

www.loudcity.com
Starts at $35, and gives you encoders and a legal page. Has a "Myspace" feel. You can also get a host through them /w royaltys paid at $35 with a hobby package (Icecast servers with multi-bitrate transcoding)

https://store.live365.com/orders/orderform.live
Deals starting at $9 a month. Servers, uploadable playlist ALLWAYS nice.. They have also been around forever, so they know how to help your needs as a broadcaster.

http://www.swcast.net/
I've never tried them, but I hear nothing but good things about them. The main focus of what I have heard? Affordable.

KNSJ.org 89.1 FM San Diego
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Old 27th March 2009, 19:54   #11
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One trick that I have played out to artists/labels is to give them a long running breakdown of the geographical location of my listeners (you can have dnas resolve the dns, which will give you the country and it is easy to parse the dnas logs for information you want).

Plainly point out that you seriously are goo goo eyed over artist X and want to massively play his/her music. Hey, isn't that interesting, artist X is not popular where the majority of my listeners tune in from. Want free exposure?

Like all, sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not.
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Old 27th March 2009, 20:24   #12
Greg_E
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But when it does work I bet they start sending you free music to play don't they.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 27th March 2009, 21:36   #13
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When it works .... I found one has the highest success rate if the artist happens to own his or her own label, which is a likely probability for all sorts of electronic dance music.

The success rate jumps through the roof if you happen to be a casual acquaintance of the said artist and you are lucky enough that they actually remember you ...

Actually, if I know a new track is coming I still usually have to beg for it, but generally it gets sent.
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Old 28th March 2009, 16:46   #14
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The RIAA can blow me. Since wherever the source stream is mixed and sent to the server that is where the royalties must be paid I plucked my main mixing source over in the UK and licensed quite cheaply with the PRS. They're nowhere near as greedy and unreasonable as the RIAA.

The RIAA can burn in hell and they are the reason why I DON'T BUY ANY MUSIC ANYMORE. I make sure I contact the artists and let them know this. Artists are starting to figure out they can put their own music out without the labels and it's clear their business model is close to dying. Good riddance.

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Old 28th March 2009, 16:58   #15
thenewyorkbeat
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ok, does this apply to instrumentals to songs??? can u play thoses in the background?
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Old 28th March 2009, 18:02   #16
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both PPL and SoundExchange will charge royalty based on where
the listeners are, not where your servers are. Which is why
many internet stream geolock their streams.


having a MCPS-PRS license alone is not sufficient to broadcast
on the internet in UK. You still need a PPL license, and that's
not all that cheap. It's equivalent of paying A/B/S here but
not SoundExchange.

instrumentals are still music which has composer, songwriters,
and performers. If you play those in the background, you
will need either approval of all of the rights holders or
pay royalties.

just giving everyone the facts as I know it. If you want
verification, call your royalty organizations.

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Old 28th March 2009, 22:51   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by HamsterWheel
both PPL and SoundExchange will charge royalty based on where
the listeners are, not where your servers are. Which is why
many internet stream geolock their streams.


having a MCPS-PRS license alone is not sufficient to broadcast
on the internet in UK. You still need a PPL license, and that's
not all that cheap. It's equivalent of paying A/B/S here but
not SoundExchange.

instrumentals are still music which has composer, songwriters,
and performers. If you play those in the background, you
will need either approval of all of the rights holders or
pay royalties.

just giving everyone the facts as I know it. If you want
verification, call your royalty organizations.
As I understand it, this is correct and was indeed why basically every stream in the UK suddenly stopped unless your IP was coming from a UK ISP. They have something working in Europe so that you can pay for the entire super continent, which is obviously a better way to go. Now if we could get world wide licensing this whole topic would suddenly get a lot easier. Buy the world plan, stream audio to the world.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 19th April 2009, 08:52   #18
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‘‘§ 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Any person who violates section 1201 or
1202 willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private
financial gain—
‘‘(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned
for not more than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
‘‘(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned
for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.
‘‘(b) LIMITATION FOR NONPROFIT LIBRARY, ARCHIVES, OR EDUCATIONAL
INSTITUTION.—Subsection (a) shall not apply to a nonprofit
library, archives, or educational institution.
‘‘(c) STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.—No criminal proceeding shall be
brought under this section unless such proceeding is commenced
within five years after the cause of action arose.


I have been trying to dig to find the penalties for NON-commercial/ no financial gain broadcasting violations.


Here's the official DMCA here if anyone wants to help me dig. A LOT of reading.

http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/hr2281.pdf

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Old 20th April 2009, 22:26   #19
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unfortunately I don't think DMCA makes a difference between
commercial and non-commercial. A violation is a violation.
The difference may be only in the licensing category with the
royalty organizations.

and even if you don't make any money, it does not make you a
"non-commercial". You'll have to apply as a non-profit entity
which has various restrictions and limitations. Otherwise,
you're simply regarded as a moneylosing commercial entity.

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Old 6th October 2009, 09:35   #20
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SCW

Quote:
Originally posted by HamsterWheel any more than that, you would have to apply for the next level up which is the Small Commercial Webcaster license which carries a $2000 annual non-refundable minimum and is in effect for the calendar year (there's also various revenue, operating cost, listener hour restrictions for the SCW).
Is the SCW deal being replaced by a new deal? Any idea how much?
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Old 6th October 2009, 19:00   #21
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I'd recommend the July 15, 2009 article on RAIN (Kurt Hanson's site). It's a good summary of all of the various classes of Internet Radio settlement deals.

For most of the folks here, the microcaster and small pureplay webcaster is probably the most relevant. However, microcaster is too small and expensive ($500/year+100 to waive reports, 18076ATH/year), the small pureplay webcaster deal have a $25,000 minimum.

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Old 6th October 2009, 20:03   #22
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http://textpattern.kurthanson.com/ar...yalty-round-up

Still as much of a mine field as it was before.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 6th October 2009, 21:00   #23
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incomprehensible
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Old 7th October 2009, 13:34   #24
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They try to keep it difficult so that you can keep the lawyers employed.

Your mileage may vary!
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