Old 19th February 2010, 08:25   #1
MrSinatra
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tracks missing when untagged and album art selected

5.572

this is kinda a hard bug to explain, but the attached screenshots will make it obvious.

in this first screenshot, notice that the first three tracks, which have no tags, still show up, as they should, when "all albumartists" is selected, and no album at all is selected in the top right pane, (which is proper and as it should be):

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 19th February 2010, 08:29   #2
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now see in this second screenshot, that when the first placeholder for album art is selected, and all else is the same, the 3 tracks do NOT show up, in fact, nothing does, (but the 3 should, ergo the bug):

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 19th February 2010, 08:34   #3
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finally, just to prove the point, notice that when "no album artist" is selected, the 3 do show up again. this happens whether or not the albumart placeholder is selected:

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 22nd February 2010, 23:01   #4
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DJ Egg???

confirm? reproduced?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 22nd February 2010, 23:47   #5
ujay
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Do you get the same result if you use the plain album view rather than the artwork view.

There is a long standing problem with art view that will throw up the odd glitch. As far as I can tell the TRIM function operates a little differently from the rest of the ML. If you have perfect tags then no problems.

Look out particularly for spaces at the start/end of names, and fields that look blank, but may contain a <space>

UJ
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Old 23rd February 2010, 00:43   #6
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i don't think the issue exists, or could even possibly exist, outside of artwork view.

i have successfully gotten artwork related bugs similar to this fixed in the past... this is a more minor one but one that should be resolved nonetheless.

i think i've posted about trailing spaces too, while a more coherent argument can be made in favor of respecting a [multiple] space at the start or in the middle of a tag, respecting trailing spaces is just nutty to me.

i think it might be an idea to have an option to have winamp visually indicate via symbol or something that you have a tag or frame or whatnot with a value of just a space.

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Old 18th March 2010, 04:49   #7
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where are all the attachments???

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
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Old 1st November 2010, 14:10   #8
DJ Egg
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Alas, it's working as designed.

If the top left pane, for example, is Artist or Album Artist,
but there's no Artist or Album Artist metadata
then it can't show any tracks.

Undesirable behaviour, I agree...
not sure what can be done about it, but we shall see....
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Old 1st November 2010, 14:12   #9
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Funny, that you reported about it. I ran in excatly the same issue, when I've worked on my Game Music library.

I had some games, which had no artist and album artist tags and when I clicked in the second pane with album art, the track list on bottom showed nothing.

Others agreed with me, that it can be annyoing, but they also said, that it's by design.
Now I really wonder, what the devs will do with that issue, since it's no Koopa only thing anymore.

PS: Egg, just because it's by design doesn't mean that it's good, it's just annyoing, since it's affects all input plugins. Design can be changed and that issue isn't user friendly, even for old school users like me.
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Old 1st November 2010, 14:18   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa View Post
PS: Egg, just because it's by design doesn't mean that it's good, it's just annyoing, since it's affects all input plugins. Design can be changed and that issue isn't user friendly, even for old school users like me.
but as we've talked about, promoting poor tagging as changing the behaviour of the bottom pane when there is no artist / album artist value to use is even worse.

so annoying, yes.
working as expected, yes.
likely to be change, no idea.
should people correctly tag their files with at least an artist value or pester plug-in developers to fix their plug-ins to ensure something is returned even if it's just the filename, yes
changing the behaviour to promote poor tagging, NO

-daz
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Old 1st November 2010, 14:48   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Egg View Post
Alas, it's working as designed.

If the top left pane, for example, is Artist or Album Artist,
but there's no Artist or Album Artist metadata
then it can't show any tracks.

Undesirable behaviour, I agree...
not sure what can be done about it, but we shall see....
but Egg, it DOES show the tracks if you DON'T select THEIR art placeholder, OR if you select "no albumartists" or "no artists" (regardless of art placeholder)

its only when you select their own art placeholder and "all albumartists" that suddenly the tracks no longer show up! thats a bug imo. why are they excluded when you pick their own art placeholder?

you can tell what the tracks are by using the filepath column in ML, and thats how i knew the art placeholder was theirs as well, and that they were totally missing when the art was selected.

since the art placeholder is theirs, and shows up where the art is as it should, it makes no sense that they would disappear simply b/c you pick their art placeholder.

DrO/Koopa/Egg,

i believe the solution is that the ML should have an option, by default, to fill in automatically ML entries with a string or value for artist and title if none is found in the tag. it could be filename, or it could be a user set-able string, like "Missing tag info."

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Old 1st November 2010, 15:08   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i believe the solution is that the ML should have an option, by default, to fill in automatically ML entries with a string or value for artist and title if none is found in the tag. it could be filename, or it could be a user set-able string, like "Missing tag info."
preferences -> media library -> local media -> watch folders -> Metadata Reading Settings -> Configure -> change the drop down to any instead of all (the default). maybe it should be changed but then it still promotes sloppiness in people's handling of tags and that's really not a good thing to be doing.

as for the 'issue' the other issue is that the bottom pane should be refreshed when any change is happening ie selecting on album from the list then clicking on the album art part (which doesn't clear the selection). but other than that, things work as expected when you don't have a valid artist field against how the bottom pane has been coded. so the status of your comulative post in the 5.59 thread should be changed to 'as expected' or something like that (along with a few of the other ones you've listed).

-daz
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Old 1st November 2010, 21:40   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
preferences -> media library -> local media -> watch folders -> Metadata Reading Settings -> Configure -> change the drop down to any instead of all (the default). maybe it should be changed but then it still promotes sloppiness in people's handling of tags and that's really not a good thing to be doing.
i'm not following you, what do you expect this to do? fill in the blanks via guessing?

just FYI, whenever i setup winamp anywhere, amongst the first things i do is the following:

1. set it to "any" as you describe above, as well as "no guessing," and thats done in TWO places: A.where the big button "Configure" is, AND B:when you "edit selected" each specific watch folder.

2. i tell winamp NOT to use artist as albumartist if AA is missing.

in spite of doing all that, (or maybe b/c of it), the bug i describe exists.

what i am trying to do, is account for the user who has winamp reflect the genuine reality of the tags to the user, but also has some files which at this point, don't, or can't, have artist and title tags.

if i do what you suggest, it would blur the line between what is actually in the tag, and what winamp is guessing, which could easily cause confusion or worse, mask the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
as for the 'issue' the other issue is that the bottom pane should be refreshed when any change is happening ie selecting on album from the list then clicking on the album art part (which doesn't clear the selection). but other than that, things work as expected when you don't have a valid artist field against how the bottom pane has been coded. so the status of your comulative post in the 5.59 thread should be changed to 'as expected' or something like that (along with a few of the other ones you've listed).

-daz
i understand that sometimes there is a clear distiction between a bug, and undesired/unintended behavior, but in this case, meaning whats in this thread, from the user POV, its a bug, imo.

as to what you write above, i don't follow you... i don't click an album from a list, AND THEN click the art. i just click the art, period. also, if a field is blank, it should still show up in any circumstance, right? if it has been coded not to, we can split hairs on if thats technically a bug or not, but we both agree the row should show, yes?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing

Last edited by MrSinatra; 2nd November 2010 at 00:32. Reason: typo
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Old 1st November 2010, 21:42   #14
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repost of screenshots

#1

ALL albumartists, no art selected, three tracks show in the filepath column even if they have no decent tags
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ID:	47843  

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Old 1st November 2010, 21:43   #15
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#2

ALL albumartists, THEIR art placeholder selected, three tracks DON'T show in the filepath column even though they still obviously generate the art placeholder and exist
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ID:	47844  

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Old 1st November 2010, 21:44   #16
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#3

just to prove the point, that the art placeholder belongs to the three files, we see them return when "no albumartist" is selected, and they then would show whether or not their art placeholder was selected.
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Old 1st November 2010, 22:07   #17
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i only referred to that setting as that's the best the player has for such things without hooking into the plug-ins or adding more things to the player's config than it needs (not helped that the preferences are becoming a mess due to adding in things for quirky options like writing ratings and only being able to put them in places where there's space instead of a proper layout of things <- that is my wish to have a nice prefs layout which can be searched and un-wanted pages disappear but are accessible if needed - not going to happen but that's what i want).


anyhow, the third screenshot matches what i was trying to describe in the weird behaviour if there is only one result in the album art pane in that the bottom pane in that case should also be blank or whatever it is you and koopa think should be happening. that area not following the behaviour when there is more than one item in the album art pane and a selection is made (as shown in the second image) is a bug i will agree on.


what no one can agree upon is what should happen if this behaviour were to be changed to show something in the bottom pane for these poorly tagged files...

should it just basically ignore the album art selection (as seems to be most representative of what would otherwise be displayed if there was no selection made in that pane)
or
base it on querying some other value though this is likely to then cause the same issue and then what value should be used as adding additional config options would make this more convoluted than it needs to be and also would more than likely cause more issues.

-daz
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Old 3rd November 2010, 09:51   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
i only referred to that setting as that's the best the player has for such things without hooking into the plug-ins
well, the scanner could employ some simple logic... ie. if a given item has no proper artist tag, and/or title tag, and "guessing" has been turned off, then winamp should, (optionally of course, via checkbox in prefs) fill in those two pieces of data for the sake of the ML.

what should go there? i suggest making that a pref too, basically along the lines of the following:

1.filename
2.a user defined string
3.a winamp determined string of "missing tag" or "bad tag" or something like that.

this really would be useful for those with say, game files! but also wav files, midi, and other stuff that is vulnerable to the bug i demonstrated with the screenshots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
or adding more things to the player's config than it needs (not helped that the preferences are becoming a mess due to adding in things for quirky options
i'm with you up to this point, as i think there is a lot of esoteric stuff in there, although i've learned to navigate/ignore most of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
like writing ratings and only being able to put them in places where there's space instead of a proper layout of things
i'm not sure what you mean by this though. i don't think writing ratings to tags is at all quirky or esoteric, and in fact to do so you have to edit the ini file... but maybe you mean that weird ass pref page i haven't even touched, "Rating Column Appearance"? i might like it if it gave even the vagueist inclination as to what that shit did. no mention of it on the wiki either, and Koopa went so far as to say its unprofessional. my feeling has been don't mess with it you might break something. but i'm not saying i want it removed, just explained.

in any case, in general, i agree, i wish the prefs were laid out a bit more intuitively and less cramped. but i don't want to see less prefs for things i consider core to the app, like ratings, and scanner settings/behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
<- that is my wish to have a nice prefs layout which can be searched and un-wanted pages disappear but are accessible if needed - not going to happen but that's what i want).
basically, a "basic prefs" page and "advanced prefs" page, right? certainly would help newbies. i would like to see small links with a "w" icon by the prefs functions, that we all could explain on the wiki page. that would go a long way to having proper and necessary documentation for the app.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
anyhow, the third screenshot matches what i was trying to describe in the weird behaviour if there is only one result in the album art pane in that the bottom pane in that case should also be blank or whatever it is you and koopa think should be happening.
you kinda lost me here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
that area not following the behaviour when there is more than one item in the album art pane and a selection is made (as shown in the second image) is a bug i will agree on.
and thats the bug i was reporting. b/c i want to be sure to cover everything, i often conflate a lot of issues in a bug report, and that can be confusing... but #2 IS the bug i am reporting and want to see fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
what no one can agree upon is what should happen if this behaviour were to be changed to show something in the bottom pane for these poorly tagged files...

should it just basically ignore the album art selection (as seems to be most representative of what would otherwise be displayed if there was no selection made in that pane)
or
base it on querying some other value though this is likely to then cause the same issue and then what value should be used as adding additional config options would make this more convoluted than it needs to be and also would more than likely cause more issues.

-daz
my suggestion is what i said to start this post. some files are poorly tagged, but others are simply not possible to tag. so i think adding some optional scanner logic for those cases won't hurt.

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BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
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