Old 31st August 2010, 22:03   #1
Globe199
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History entries lost if Winamp not closed normally

Any history entries made since the last time Winamp was closed will be lost if Winamp does not close normally. This can happen when:

- computer crashes
- computer is restarted without first closing Winamp
- Winamp process is terminated

Not a huge deal, but if your computer is up for weeks (or even months) at a time, you could lose a big chunk of data.

This could be fixed by having Winamp write to the history file each time an entry is made instead of when Winamp closes.
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Old 1st September 2010, 00:17   #2
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good point, just write it out to file... why commit the memory to that anyway?

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Old 13th February 2012, 02:43   #3
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I don't know why this has never been fixed, but as someone who really appreciates having the history of what I have listened to this is the reason I am switching from winamp.
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Old 13th February 2012, 03:29   #4
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There is a plugin called 'Playlist Autosave' that will instruct WA to save the contents of the playlist every minute. Install as Administrator.

http://www.winamp.com/plugin/playlist-autosave/147024

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Old 13th February 2012, 15:45   #5
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that plug-in won't work for the history since there's no way to signal to the history plug-in to force save itself. and yes, it probably should be saving out either on a timer or when a change happens but for whatever reason it was done so that it generally saves on exit. it should be a simple thing to change or at least make it support the API which has been in place since at least 5.0 which allows for plug-ins to be signalled to save their settings, etc (though most don't follow it).

-daz
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Old 18th March 2012, 22:58   #6
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as a follow-up for this whilst i'm clearing out my bookmark history and this has been affecting me recently when working on the SHOUTcast Source DSP, i've changed the history plug-in for the next release (no eta) to save the history to disk shortly after an update happens which should alleviate that aspect of people losing their play counts (cannot do anything about database failures obviously).

-daz
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Old 19th March 2012, 04:38   #7
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excellent, i wish more bugs affected you!

will the ram be freed once the history is written to file?

also, did my alt+3 apply button come up in the bookmark clearing?

thanks for fixing this!

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Old 19th March 2012, 10:17   #8
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no idea on the ram aspect since certain parts will always be in the system memory irrespective of what is / isn't going on. maybe it will drop ram usage over long periods of time a bit though i'm not sure and trying to test that isn't something i can really do anytime soon.

my concern was more that it could be causing response issues when the save happens but as it's a small update / insert and usually happens well after a song change happens, then it shouldn't cause any ui lags issues (unless the machine is massively loaded and Winamp is already struggling).


the apply button is still in that list but i've got more pressing issues with the jtfe plug-in before looking to add in new code for that.

-daz
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Old 19th March 2012, 14:00   #9
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"... maybe it will drop ram usage ..."

"... then it shouldn't cause any ui lag issues ..."

DrO you are willing to risk harm because you can't or wouldn't take the time to regression test. After so long, what's the hurry now? This is a sad day for me, my hero has revealed his clay feet.

Oh well, that's life. Let's hope your reasoning is sound and no serious harm is done.

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Old 19th March 2012, 14:19   #10
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i am regression testing it as best as i can so i'm not just committing (which i haven't even done yet) and letting it be, even though the code change is pretty simple and hasn't caused any issues over the last few days which i've been running it.


as for the points you're raising...

firstly, i do not actually know how much memory the nde database handling allocates / uses when you're not flushing things out to disk, how can i compare that as you never can really rely on what is reported in task manager. or am i expected to spend time creating a complete memory monitoring solution for something that i'd have to take weeks to work out how it all works when i've actually got a job to otherwise do?

secondly, my comment about being worried about lagging is due to saving to disk always being slower and as a lot can and does go on when a track change happens, i needed to make sure that the history updates weren't going to add to everything else going on even if things are set to wait 5 seconds for example after the files started being played.


since all of these sort of minor changes are done in my own time when i really shouldn't even be doing them as most other people don't have the time or inclination to spend time on things which would officially be deemed as unimportant / not worth the resources. so maybe i should just stop doing that &/or even posting about any of the little bits i'm trying to do.

in fact i think i might just do that once i've finished testing this and some podcast saving issues (only because i got hit by a loss of the podcast xml files for the second time) and just leave it at. sod trying to get the library db able to be backed up and trying to look into improvements with Winamp shutting down (as this last one is only an issue for me when i'm testing / implementing changes and a 3-4sec delay on closing is annoying when compiling takes less than that). is no skin off my nose and will give me time to actually do non-programming things i want to do so win-win for me.

-daz
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Old 19th March 2012, 19:33   #11
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DrO, please don't do that. i appreciate the effort and the info!

my interest in this goes roughly like this:

say you operate a webcast playing local files 24/7/365. over time, if the history file is all in RAM, and only written out on closing, it seems like that alone could overwhelm a machine and crash it. my hope was that with these changes, as soon as the entries were written to disk, the ram would be released. are you saying that is not something you can force or do easily?

btw, this is a good app better than task manager just in case u don't know about it:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s...rnals/bb896653

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s...rnals/bb795533

and please keep us in the loop! thx again!

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Old 19th March 2012, 22:37   #12
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Some of us realise DrO's work is brilliant and he should be given a lot more credit for being an unpaid saviour of Winamp.

DrO - the work done in your spare time is very valuable to us all. This includes the rather handy add-ons pack. We also trust your professionalism to not do slap-dash edits. Ignore the trolls. The rest of us love your work.
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Old 19th March 2012, 23:08   #13
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Aminifu isn't a troll, he just got up on the wrong side of the bed today apparently.

also, i think DrO is on staff, but he does a lot of stuff like this on his own time that they would not pay him for, and so of course its very appreciated.

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Old 19th March 2012, 23:51   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
Some of us realise DrO's work is brilliant and he should be given a lot more credit for being an unpaid saviour of Winamp.
I agree with that statement. DrO is still my hero. He is also human and maybe should take a short break to avoid burnout. I don't really think he takes dangerous shortcuts (I was tired and maybe a little cranky earlier).

The problem, as I see it, is why do the powers that be for Winamp deem a lot of what should be done as "things which would officially be deemed as unimportant / not worth the resources". Do they view the desktop as dead and mobile as the only important thing? What can we mere users do to change that?

Live long and prosper, DrO.

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Old 20th March 2012, 10:39   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
(I was tired and maybe a little cranky earlier).
Sorry - so was I. I shouldn't have called you a troll. It looks like a few of us were having bad days at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
The problem, as I see it, is why do the powers that be for Winamp deem a lot of what should be done as "things which would officially be deemed as unimportant / not worth the resources".
I think there is probably a simple answer there - cash. Or the lack of it. I have no idea how AOL and Nullsoft are structured, but it is clearly in a way that does not leave bucket loads of developer cash. As an ex-developer myself it can get a little odd inside a big company. Decisions get made for all kinds of strange reasons. But the one thing to celebrate is that Winamp is still here even after all the financial hassles.

Quote:
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Do they view the desktop as dead and mobile as the only important thing? What can we mere users do to change that?
What can we do? About the only thing we can do is keep promoting Winamp. Keep the name alive. IMHO there is still no other player out there with the abilities of Winamp. And there are not many other software products out there still going after 15 years!!

(If the Wikipedia page is correct on the April 21 1997 first release date, there should be some form of mini-celebration of this fact. Just look at the PCs we had back then!!)
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Old 20th March 2012, 16:37   #16
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Hi Batter Pudding,

No offense taken. I respect the passion. Sometimes I express myself poorly and deserve a quick backhand.

During my brief active time in the forums I have come to view you, MrSinatra, DJ Egg and Koopa as Winamp heroes also (although not on DrO's level).

A Winamp birthday celebration is a great idea. I'll start a thread asking for suggestions as to what we can do.

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Old 20th March 2012, 21:21   #17
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haha, hero? i'm more of a PITA. DrO dreads me, b/c i bother him over small things in his view and i apparently have a talent (curse?) for finding bugs that don't happen to others.

Koopa and DrO (and Egg!) are the real deal, skirmishes aside. i just like helping others with a program i enjoy using, and i learn that way too. you guys are the same way imo, and we help those guys out by answering questions that they then aren't bothered with.

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Old 21st March 2012, 07:29   #18
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Hi MrSinatra,

Yeah, but who says a hero can't also be a PITA. Don't be modest, you are a Winamp hero too.

Sorry for taking this thread OT. When I read DrO's statement, "... i've changed the history plug-in for the next release (no eta) to save the history ..." and his response to your question about RAM usage, I thought he had committed the change and I made a snap judgment. I was wrong. DrO does NOT do slap-dash work.

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Old 21st March 2012, 16:36   #19
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Quote:
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(I was tired and maybe a little cranky earlier)
likewise at the time and i guess it doesn't help i probably care too much about inane little things when i probably shouldn't, oh well.


back to the points about memory usage, i'm really not sure on how the nde databases like is used for the history tracking deals with memory as i'm not sure if it's just keeping a copy of changed values or a complete image (which i'd doubt) or something else. as i've never really bothered to look at the underlying code (not needed to), i cannot really answer such questions.

however, from http://forums.winamp.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=93 and the few posts before it, i am starting to think something isn't right somewhere though i'm not sure where since the test i'm still running has history and a few other aspects disabled to rule them out affecting the Source DSP but i'm now 5hrs later than that post and Winamp's using almost 4Mb more. but like in the post, i'm more concerned about the handle count which is almost 7 times what it was when i started which was ~450 though it could even be one of my plug-ins at fault (which would be amusing).

i will now answer how i take it for the following comment
Quote:
The problem, as I see it, is why do the powers that be for Winamp deem a lot of what should be done as "things which would officially be deemed as unimportant / not worth the resources". Do they view the desktop as dead and mobile as the only important thing?
i think it most likely comes down to return of investment vs time spent as is going to be the case with most things. since some of the random little bugs i've fixed over the years have taken on/off a few weeks to track down which only affected a small proportion of users which financially couldn't have been warranted. obviously in an ideal world there should be no bugs or a means to immediately look into it but that's never how Winamp has ever really worked.

and yes there is more of a focus on the Android and Mac apps compared to the desktop which is going to rub desktop only users the wrong way but supposedly 'mobile' is the money making future if everything is to be believe - personally i don't know and as i don't even have a smart phone or need to get one i'm really not the target audience for such things.

but really i do not know what the focus / intention of things is be it just letting the desktop version stagnate or just ditching it as is and going all new without any of the legacy issues like the app versions don't have to deal with (though obviously that then kills all of the plug-ins and gets back into the 2.x vs 5.x issues or where people won't upgrade because of a plug-in which is 12 years old won't work with anything current).

as i think i've said before, Winamp is unfortunately hindered by it's past success and related legacy aka the Windows dilema. then again maybe it would be good to just start things fresh and do it properly but then that's also got its own cost implications and would a user base accept such a thing? probably not or at least not the user base who've kept using it over the years.

then again, i think there are ways to keep with the current plug-in setup and way that Winamp works without going from scratch such as with the case of new apis have always been added over time, it would just mean more formalisation of any newer apis to be better designed / implemented than what has gone before and just map legacy api's to be wrappers around the new functionality - ideal example of this from previous updates is the file converter api which has changed a few times but still maintains the older interface for those using it.

if anything, the more pressing thing i think is trying to ensure a consistent UI experience irrespective of the skin being used - ideal example is the tooltip text for the playlist buttons for Modern vs Bento which do the same thing but the text is different. or like how some of the library plug-ins supporting certain ways of showing the default key for an action and changing it as needed whereas other ones just don't both to do it. but then is that an issue with different people having worked on different parts and never done the utmost to ensure a consistent method and way of doing things over the 14+ years as we're now at.

and of course, would it even be Winamp without all of these quirks and inconsistencies and the like.

-daz
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Old 21st March 2012, 16:40   #20
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DrO dreads me, b/c i bother him over small things in his view and i apparently have a talent (curse?) for finding bugs that don't happen to others.
the same curse the koopa and mouser x have as well it seems and i do appreciate people noticing and taking the time to post about the most minor issues, is just the time aspect for trying to even look at and then attempt to fix.

then again, everyone has off days and bugs can and do creep through - i have and still will be guilty of such things, but it's not from a lack of trying to test and make sure that things are as correct as i can make them (especially at that late at night coding time that always seems to either cause all of the bugs or help to fix all of them).

-daz
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Old 22nd March 2012, 05:00   #21
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Hi DrO,

We are of like mind on many things. Caring is good, don't try to change that. I'm sure you care deeply about more than software stuff and your family and friends appreciate that (even if your 'work' takes you away at times).

I also don't own a smart mobile device or have a need for one. But smart mobile is the future and only content creators and product developers will 'need' a desktop (no matter how clear the tiny iPad screen gets). But that future is maybe 4 or 5 years away and I'll deal with it then and I will never willingly give up the desktop.

I like that Winamp has some 'personality'. It wouldn't be Winamp "without all of these quirks and inconsistencies and the like". I would just have to find something else to 'waste' time on (wife's viewpoint).

As a former designer/programmer, I really understand ..."that late at night coding time that always seems to either cause all of the bugs or help to fix all of them". Been there, done that. I also understand the desire to 'nurture and protect' projects that have taken a lot of effort and used up so much 'quality' time.

Just hang in the best you can (take breaks, you deserve them). In 20 years (or less) none of this (or most current concerns about most stuff) will mean anything to most people. In the meantime, know that whatever you do (or try to do) to expand the joy of using this product is appreciated. Going forward, try not to take any 'off hand' remarks I will probably make personal. They would never be meant that way (but don't hesitate with a backhand when you think I deserve it).

PS.
I have a feeling that once the source of the memory leaks and/or creeping handles is found, it will go a long way to solving a lot of issues. Then where will you be. YOU would just have to find something else to 'waste' time on.

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Old 2nd April 2012, 16:15   #22
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just fyi, i got bit by this this weekend...

i never play any games, but every so often i make an exception for civ, and i just got civ5, and did a marathon session with winamp playing shuffle in the background.

as i was playing, i heard great stuff that i couldn't identify, but no matter i foolishly thought, i'll check the history later. well its a brand new alienware laptop, and i put it down to go do some things; when i came back, for reasons i can't figure out, it turned off on me. i think the power cord got pulled and the battery didn't kick in quick enough or something, but its the only time its happened, and needless to say, i lost the entire winamp history.

so this fix would have saved me. c'est la vie.

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Old 2nd April 2012, 17:19   #23
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@MrSinatra Re: Alienware Laptop shutdown: "the battery didn't kick in quick enough" is not going to be the answer as the laptop is constantly running on the battery, and the battery is just being topped up when plugged in. So yanking the cord just stops the battery being topped up.

Are you sure you didn't have the laptop overheating from being left on a sofa\carpet\etc and blocking the air vents? (This is slightly OT so feel free to hit me with PMs)


To stay OT... I assume we all use Koopa's Backup Tool to minimise our crash losses? (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=317153)
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Old 2nd April 2012, 17:32   #24
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in regards to the battery, i know it normally works like that, but when a game is on drawing a lot of power, the battery might not always be able to provide the quanity of power necessary instanteously, is my hypothesis. it wasn't overheating though, b/c i always prop it such that vents are clear when doing intense cpu stuff. i did pick it up awkwardly, ergo the wire popping out, but i had my hand no where near the power button. its just a very odd circumstance.

the backup tool would not have saved me here, b/c it was just this one, "live" session i lost.

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Old 21st June 2012, 18:45   #25
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i think i have finally figured this out... even light taps, like dropping the remote from a few inches to the right side of the laptop kills it. my thought?

ST Microelectronics DE351DL Free Fall Sensor

i didn't even know something like that was in here, and its too damn sensitive, and i don't see a way to adjust it.

but, its something now to be aware of. when i posted in this thread, it was the first time it happened to me, and that was by picking it up! awkwardly, but still.

damn annoying.

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Old 5th July 2012, 09:02   #26
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5.63 should now have fixed this issue. also maybe of interest:

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=346084

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