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Old 30th November 2010, 02:41   #1
MrSinatra
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Winamp 5.6 Rating Implementation Discussion (split from the 5.6 release thread)

i'm happy to see some of my bugs actually fixed... bookmarks, id3/ape, sort arrows in ML, and of course official implementation of using ratings. i very much appreciate that users can impact development. thx! its really fantastic!

some questions:

i see that FLAC/VORBIS comments use "RATING" as the field name for ratings, which is very sensible. however, in the notes you say:

"...and the vorbis standard for ogg & flac for writing ratings to tags."

where is this standard? i ask b/c i am concerned about the data range being used on FLACs. if i rate something four stars in winamp, it gets a 4 for the value in the rating tag. why was a 0-5 data range chosen? ie. where is the standard you reference for this?

i believe 0-100 is far more common.

besides, you leave yourself no room for future granularity, like supporting half stars.

also, can some official documentation be added to the wiki regarding the 'prefs>ml>appearance>ratings column appearance' options please? to call it cryptic is putting it mildly.

also, running multiple instances still seems problematic, and some other issues persist:

http://forums.winamp.com/showpost.ph...2&postcount=98

but all in all, a milestone release imo. great job!

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 30th November 2010, 05:21   #2
DJ Egg
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@MrSinatra
Hmm, I'm not 100% sure about the specifics of the RATING field for ogg/flac,
but DrO or Benski might be able to give a more complete answer.

Yeah, there isn't really a standard (so I'll probably rephrase that part later).

We used the recommendation from here:
http://code.google.com/p/quodlibet/w...VorbisComments

@Juanus
Yes, the Playlist Generator changes are well awesome! :-)
Gergo rocks! Yay!

And, as always, bug fixes and optimizations are like sweet music to my ears :-)
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Old 30th November 2010, 05:38   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Egg View Post
@MrSinatra
Hmm, I'm not 100% sure about the specifics of the RATING field for ogg/flac,
but DrO or Benski might be able to give a more complete answer.

Yeah, there isn't really a standard (so I'll probably rephrase that part later).

We used the recommendation from here:
http://code.google.com/p/quodlibet/w...VorbisComments
thats very interesting, i had not seen that before, i'll quote it here:

Quote:
rating
The rating tag has a subkey of an email address, and is formatted as e.g. rating:quodlibet@sacredchao.net. The email is used as a unique identifier to allow multiple users to share the same files (it need not actually be an email address, but having it as such ensures that it's unique across users). It represents how much a user likes a song. Its value is a string representation of a floating point number between 0.0 and 1.0, inclusive. This format is chosen so the application may decide what precision it offers to the user, and how this information is presented. If no value is present, the rating should be assumed to be 0.5.
Example: rating:quodlibet@sacredchao.net=0.67
i notice that winamp is NOT putting its email in there, differing from how it does POPM. i have to confess, i don't know if thats better or not. my instinct would be to put it, but other apps might be tripped up by it, i'll need to research that.

however, the system he seems to be talking about is a 0-100 system, just in decimal point terms. so its not what winamp is using. winamp is using the whole numbers of 1,2,3,4, and 5, thats different than using for instance what it has as an example, 0.67

i hope you all don't have this set in stone? (this is what i wanted to talk about in the hijacked thread) i don't know that i can find something to emulate the way POPM could be via windows, so i need to look into it more and report back, but i hope when i do you all will still be open to adjusting how you implement the function, esp given that what you say you followed, you didn't really follow the way they say.

please note, i appreciate all the hard work in this release! i hope i don't come off as nit-picking or oblivious to that, but at the same time if changes need to be made, better to make them now before too many people rate FLACs using this method.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 30th November 2010, 05:54   #4
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I'd also love to see some more info regarding the ratings, especially regarding writing all the existing ratings from the ML into the appropriate files, and reading ratings from the files after a library crash or other such disasters.

Release is looking great so far though

-edit- First bug I've noticed:

-Winamp still won't find an Android WiFi device. Winamp for Android is running with Wireless Sync enabled, both devices are on the same WiFi network and desktop firewall was completely disabled for testing this.



-edit2- Thanks for the doublepost-fix.

Weeeeeeeeeeee
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Old 30th November 2010, 07:12   #5
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MrSinatra: FLAC/OGG rating is just using 0-5 in the 'rating' field as all other players are doing. the vorbiscomments spec isn't used by any of the players / editors i tested with (that i remember). i did look at the link Egg posted at the time but no one else uses it so it was ignored and support follows what is done in the other players.

just shows how no one can agree on one format. most of the work is done on the time import stage to convert any weirder rating schemes to Winamp's 0-5 system but really when rating, just one app should be used for it (as is recommended from other players) so there is the consistency in how it is all done.

-daz
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Old 30th November 2010, 07:24   #6
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Ahh, ok... and there we have it :-)
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Old 30th November 2010, 07:47   #7
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I think I just found out how to easily batch-update the ratings... just use "?rating=x" as a ML search query and then select all before rating the files again (i.e. select all 5* files and right click=>rate=>5*).

Seems to be working (at least Winamp is writing to my NAS at 5MB/s)... how can I check a single file to see if the rating has been written properly? MP3Tag doesn't show any fields that look relevant...

Weeeeeeeeeeee
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Old 30th November 2010, 07:56   #8
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No idea about MP3Tag, but the easiest method of checking is (if on Vista/Win7 with WMP11/12) to check the Properties of the file in Explorer (Details tab), and you'll see that all of Windows, WMP & Winamp see the same ratings for mp3 & wma (alas, poor WMP/Windows can't see ratings in Vorbis Comments for flac/ogg).

The relevant id3v2 frame for mp3 is: POPM
(Popularimeter)
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Old 30th November 2010, 08:05   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bemymonkey View Post
how can I check a single file to see if the rating has been written properly? MP3Tag doesn't show any fields that look relevant...
you can either add the rating column into the main view (right-click on the list header) though that won't always show the value or you can see it via the the 'extended tags...' right-click menu on the file. or just use the means prvovided with Vista / Win7 in Explorer to see what's going on.

-daz
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Old 30th November 2010, 08:21   #10
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Alright then, that seems to be working, at least for MP3 files. Thanks


Now... how/when does Winamp read ratings from the files themselves? Why is it that the in-file rating seems to defer to the rating stored in the ML database?


Take this scenario:

1. Music is on a NAS
2. Music is in Winamp Library on PC 1
3. User rates music on PC 1 in Winamp library
4. User rates music from within the playlist editor on PC 2
5. Changes don't show up on PC 1

On the other hand, editing the rating from within Windows Explorer on PC2 did show up in Winamp on PC1 when the file was played.

A clear description of the behaviour and how it was intended would be great...

Weeeeeeeeeeee
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Old 30th November 2010, 17:21   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
MrSinatra: FLAC/OGG rating is just using 0-5 in the 'rating' field as all other players are doing. the vorbiscomments spec isn't used by any of the players / editors i tested with (that i remember). i did look at the link Egg posted at the time but no one else uses it so it was ignored and support follows what is done in the other players.

just shows how no one can agree on one format. most of the work is done on the time import stage to convert any weirder rating schemes to Winamp's 0-5 system but really when rating, just one app should be used for it (as is recommended from other players) so there is the consistency in how it is all done.

-daz
what players use 0-5?

SBS expects 0-100. the spec egg posted was 0-100 too, but just in decimal terms, (i do think whole numbers should be used, but with a 0-100 range)

this is important, b/c if you commit to 0-5 now, you are PERMANENTLY making it so that you can never have granularity, unless you one day support things like "3.5" which clearly would be a kludge.

also, like i said, SBS expects 0-100, so i would like to know what other apps are using 0-5?

afaik, the "official" vorbis spec does not cover much of anything, including ratings, this is as close as i could find:

http://www.xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html

ratings aren't even mentioned. having said that, i agree that the sensible term to use for the tag is "RATING" b/c all apps seem to use that. the only issue here as i see it, is the data range used.

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Old 30th November 2010, 17:44   #12
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i based it on WMP, Explorer, Fb2k, Mp3Tag, Tag&Rename and what i was finding from other people's attempts to deal with it and what had been set in place with in_mp3 before. and none of them were using what was detailed in the post which is supposedly the way to do it (which based on your post means SBS isn't following it either).

there are no plans to change things to anything outside of the 0-5 range and the whole point is to save the Winamp rating. there's everything in place to read in other mapping styles so it's not that hard for SBS or whatever else to do the same (as other players are also doing).

you've got what you've gotten for free and if ratings are really that important then maybe rating them in Winamp isn't they way to do it for you. the aim was to cope with importing most of the popular schemes found (0-5, 0-10, 0-100, 0-255) and saving as appropriate (which is 0-5 for vorbis comments, 0-255 for POPM or whatever is being used) and if i hadn't of done it then you'd still be stuck with mp3 only and no ui option (knoew it was a bad idea doing any of it).

-daz
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Old 30th November 2010, 18:39   #13
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DrO,

first of all, there is no reason to get upset, i'm just asking questions. i may ultimately agree with you, or not, based on the answers but its nothing to get upset about.

if you personally did all the work to implement this, then trust me, i appreciate it, and i mean that sincerely. but free or not, or whether it was you or not, i am entitled to ask questions. please see below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
i based it on WMP, Explorer,
but windows and WMP don't actually read or write FLAC/vorbis tags, so that doesn't make sense... i can then only assume that you mean the general "rating system" that they use, which is obviously 0-5 stars. but even though thats the case, these two only do it for POPM and that uses a 0-255 range.

in other words, the display of the rating system, and the data range used to make it, is not necessarily a one to one match. and its worth pointing out, that windows and WMP are granular, in that they do fractions of a star.

again, i'm not trying to upset you, i'm just trying to bring these issues to light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
Fb2k, Mp3Tag, Tag&Rename and what i was finding from other people's attempts to deal with it and what had been set in place with in_mp3 before. and none of them were using what was detailed in the post which is supposedly the way to do it (which based on your post means SBS isn't following it either).
i can't speak to fb2k, i haven't tested it yet, or MM or anything else, (what else is there?). but the taggers like mp3tag don't really have a system, so i don't know why we'd look to them?

again, my problem isn't with using 0-5 stars to display ratings, thats kool and the gang. it isn't with using "RATING" for the field name either, also sensible. i am just trying to nail down what the best data range to use is, based on the idea that granularity may be useful one day, and on what other apps currently do, or are likely to do.

for instance, if windows 8 were to say RATING should use "0-100" (which i consider the most probable out of all the scenarios) i think that could cause winamp big problems down the road. however, if win8 were to use 0-5 you'd be golden, but i just don't consider that likely given their current implementation of granularity for POPM.

of course, what fb2k and MM do TODAY is relevant, so if they do 0-5 for the data range (not just the stars) then that would certainly support winamps current implementation.

i'm just trying to figure all that out, thats all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
there are no plans to change things to anything outside of the 0-5 range and the whole point is to save the Winamp rating. there's everything in place to read in other mapping styles so it's not that hard for SBS or whatever else to do the same (as other players are also doing).
this is interesting, how will other apps know "RATING 0-5" is the 'winamp way,' and not some other app using a differing range but same term's way? (like how would SBS know to translate this value as a winamp value? what identifies the field/value as winamps?)

and on the flipside, how does winamp know what app made the tag, and adjust it?

i understand the idea of translating one apps value into another apps value, but how does winamp know what app MADE the value its tranlating?

and if that is in fact going on under the hood, then what are the actual "other styles" that winamp is translating into its own paradigm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
you've got what you've gotten for free and if ratings are really that important then maybe rating them in Winamp isn't they way to do it for you. the aim was to cope with importing most of the popular schemes found (0-5, 0-10, 0-100, 0-255) and saving as appropriate (which is 0-5 for vorbis comments, 0-255 for POPM or whatever is being used) and if i hadn't of done it then you'd still be stuck with mp3 only and no ui option (knoew it was a bad idea doing any of it).

-daz
i don't think doing any of this was a bad idea, given how many people want it. i also hope you will not get defensive abot me asking questions, they aren't to challenge you in some personal kind of way. but this stuff is important on its own level, and so i ask.

a data range of 0-5 is a nice one to one 0-5 stars match for winamp, and it may very well be how fb2k, MM, and others do it, altho i don't know that yet. but if it isn't, (as its not for SBS), and/or if windows/WMP do it differently in the future, which i consider likely, then winamp will be in a tight spot.

thats all i'm saying. all efforts by you or the devs are appreciated!

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Old 2nd December 2010, 09:59   #14
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i was referring to all of the updates as a while when i mentioned WMP / Explorer with regards to what was being done. also what was implemented for the vorbis stuff was done in a free hour i had and that was it so there wasn't time to fathom out the quirks / issues with what is 'supposedly' the specification for saving ratings in those tags.

however, you keep going on about SBS and it's rating scale. Winamp is not SBS and as Winamp is only working on a 0-5 scale padding it out into something else isn't of benefit to Winamp and as the whole thing is to make Winamp cope with importing ratings from the files so it can then be used to manage it then the implementation done matches that.

if no one can set down in stone what is the correct manner to be dealing with these formats then how can anyone code a solution which is valid for all of the different values. saying that 0-100 or whatever range is the standard (when clearly there isn't one) is the main issue and without that.

i don't disagree on your comments about the granularity issue that just using a 0-5 rating causes but that's what was set in place for Winamp in 2003 so that's what it [Winamp] needs to follow with interaction with other players being just to cope with importing as was deemed the main thing to do. maybe it shouldn't have been held off until there was time to work on things more but there wasn't and also wasn't the interest from anyone else to do it so this is what there is.

-daz
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Old 7th December 2010, 12:19   #15
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Sweet, this was one of the main reasons I stopped using winamp and switched to mediamonkey. well that and losing my play counts. Maybe now with the rating implementation I can switch back
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Old 7th December 2010, 17:38   #16
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DrO, Egg, et al,

please read my following post with an open mind, as i am not trying to be difficult or a PITA, but i am trying to make my case, and i think my argument is sound and my logic solid. i gave the topic a few days off, b/c it felt like the noise was getting too high for the signal, so i hope we can approach it fresh now.

let me start off by saying i have np whatsoever with the id3 ratings implementation. i think the only sensible thing was done there; originally, Benski used a 1-5 scale for that as well, but this was wisely switched to be inline with windows/wmp after i raised that issue.

so the only issue, as i see it, is with the scale (data range) used for the new RATING field in vorbis tags. i believe i have found a way for EVERYONE to be happy, regardless of what they think appropriate, if only you all would implement it. please see my comments below to see the proposal and justification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
i was referring to all of the updates as a while when i mentioned WMP / Explorer with regards to what was being done. also what was implemented for the vorbis stuff was done in a free hour i had and that was it so there wasn't time to fathom out the quirks / issues with what is 'supposedly' the specification for saving ratings in those tags.
i understand, and your work/time is appreciated! so let me help you, b/c i have spent a LOT of time on these issues! i know a lot about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
however, you keep going on about SBS and it's rating scale. Winamp is not SBS and as Winamp is only working on a 0-5 scale padding it out into something else isn't of benefit to Winamp and as the whole thing is to make Winamp cope with importing ratings from the files so it can then be used to manage it then the implementation done matches that.
i will more verbosely explain below, but i reject the idea that winamp should be designed to only work for winamp. yes, your implementation does work for winamp if files were rated by winamp, but we can do better! why would you want it to be de facto proprietary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
if no one can set down in stone what is the correct manner to be dealing with these formats then how can anyone code a solution which is valid for all of the different values. saying that 0-100 or whatever range is the standard (when clearly there isn't one) is the main issue and without that.
yes, i agree, in that the standard is much weaker than id3. however, there is a de facto standard starting to form imo, and moreover, there ARE ways to accommodate everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
i don't disagree on your comments about the granularity issue that just using a 0-5 rating causes but that's what was set in place for Winamp in 2003 so that's what it [Winamp] needs to follow with interaction with other players being just to cope with importing as was deemed the main thing to do. maybe it shouldn't have been held off until there was time to work on things more but there wasn't and also wasn't the interest from anyone else to do it so this is what there is.

-daz
again, please understand my comments are NOT to be considered derisive of your time or efforts, or the devs or anyone elses. whats been done so far is appreciated!

but what i am going to say next, is appropriate, b/c all i am doing is talking about the best possible implementation for winamp, and what i'm not doing is complaining, so please understand that.

ok, so let me clear something up right away. i know and agree that winamp should, for now anyway, stick to displaying 0-5 stars in the GUI. that also is NOT an issue for me at this current time. i agree with the decision that was made in 2003. the issue isn't the display, its the data range used to create the display.

the only (kinda) "mainstream" apps i know of that use vorbis ratings are:

SBS (slim)
MM (Media Monkey)
FB2k (Foobar)
and
Winamp

Winamp does a straight 0-5 data range to do a one to one match to display stars in the app. this is how it tags them, and i assume, this is how it reads tag data as well, which is problematic for users of different scales than winamps.

SBS does not edit tags, but it will read them. it expects a 0-100 scale, to represent 5 stars, in Vorbis tags.

MM ALSO uses and edits a 0-100 scale. both SBS and MM have a scale that looks like this:

Quote:
100 = 5 stars
90 = 4.5 stars
80 = 4 stars
70 = 3.5 stars
60 = 3 stars
50 = 2.5 stars
40 = 2 stars
30 = 1.5 stars
20 = 1 star
10 = 0.5 star
0 = 0 stars
that leaves only Foobar, which i believe has the answer, or at least, has given inspiration to it.

Foobar LETS THE USER DECIDE! the user can determine what value each star gets, and what the data range is on import. i believe this is the best way, and that winamp could easily let users do the same thing in prefs. what exactly do i mean?

in the small prefs dialog, you would have 5 lines, each one representing a level of stars for vobis ratings ONLY. it would have a box where using small arrows, you pick the exact number you want winamp to assign for that level stars. also, on the same line, you assign the data range you want winamp to use for a given level's stars. so in a gui it would look nice, but imagine as an example something like this:

star level - exact# - read on import as # to #

***** - 100 - 90 to 100
**** - 80 - 70 to 89
*** - 60 - 50 to 69
** - 40 - 30 to 59
* - 20 - 01 to 29

zero or null, would obviously mean no stars, or unrated.

this is my understanding of how Foobar works, and even if it isn't, thats moot, b/c this is how winamp should work. it lets the USER decide, and empowers the user. that way the user can do whats best for his or her given situation, whatever it may be.

your default could remain being the simple 0-5 range/mapping you're using now, but more advanced users could be empowered to switch to something more useful and granular, and best of all, such a method allows for users to pretty easily switch systems over time, should one way become more popular than another, (as i believe windows will use a 0-100 scale when it natively supports FLAC, but this suggestion would accommodate ANY scale).

the reason you would use small arrows to set the numbers/ranges, is so that a user could only enter proper, sensical, numerical values in the tag, (dummyproof it). you could also add a return to default button in case someone got confused or wanted to start over.

anyway, i know your time is limited, but i hope you will consider making these changes!

more on FB2K:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=85309

and btw, i know ratings are not yet done for mp4 and m4a (or whatever those damn apple formats are), but this might help implement that as well, (as an aside, notice Benski's post!):

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...hp/t31022.html

and in that thread is this useful link:

http://atomicparsley.sourceforge.net/mpeg-4files.html

which has a table showing "rtng" is used as the frame name, or so i am guessing. while i don't know what the data range is, those links might have it, and all you need to do is match it to whatever apple uses, much as POPM matches to windows/wmp (and the id3 spec).

apparently, you can embed id3 tags in a mp4/m4a too, although i don't know that that should be supported by winamp, but interesting nonetheless:

http://www.mp4ra.org/specs.html

so in any case, i hope you see now where i am coming from, and i hope you see that my solution is a good one, where vorbis ratings are concerned. let the user decide in prefs, what exact number to assign, and what range to use on import. it solves not only all issues today, but all possible future issues that come down the pike.

thx.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing

Last edited by MrSinatra; 7th December 2010 at 19:41.
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Old 13th December 2010, 19:15   #17
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Egg, DrO, et al...

was my last post too long?

would i get better results if i kissed some more butt or spread some money around? j/k

seriously, i spent time researching the issue and posting my results along with what i think is the best possible solution that would work for ANYONE... i would like to hear what you all think of that?

perhaps a donation to you or your fave charity might help?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 14th December 2010, 02:19   #18
Benski
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re-post, first plugins didn't compile properly.

Here is an implementation of Vorbis tags (for FLAC and Ogg) that use 0-100. let me know if this is what you had in mind.
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Old 14th December 2010, 03:17   #19
MrSinatra
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first, i am humbled by all these replies and i thank you for your effort.

however, those two files crashed my winamp as soon as a tried to rate a FLAC.

i closed winamp. i went into program files, and added the ext .old to the 2 existing DLLs. i then copied your two (from the newer repost) in there, (in plugins). restarted winamp. tried to rate a flac and boom, crashed.

i restarted winamp, looked in prefs, and didn't see anything where the user could set the range or anything like that, is that in there? 0-100 is what i would want and use, but you might want to make that configurable, so it suits any user and futureproofs it.

i tried to rate a flac again on the restart, and it crashed again.

but i appreciate the efforts and hope we can work it out together!

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 14th December 2010, 04:08   #20
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strange. not sure why it's crashing, must be some mismatch between the development environment that my laptop is on and the build machine. let me take a look at a few things and hopefully i'll post updated plugins

but, yeah basically it implements 0-100 for both Ogg and FLAC files, since it seems that most other programs use this range also. I havn't implemented any preferences for it yet.
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Old 14th December 2010, 04:19   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benski View Post
strange. not sure why it's crashing, must be some mismatch between the development environment that my laptop is on and the build machine. let me take a look at a few things and hopefully i'll post updated plugins

but, yeah basically it implements 0-100 for both Ogg and FLAC files, since it seems that most other programs use this range also. I havn't implemented any preferences for it yet.
i figured it out, and its embarrassing, but its also partly a winamp bug.

i hadn't noticed, but my USB2 cable had come loose, and so when i went to rate the FLAC, it wasn't there to rate.

upon reseating the cable properly, i was able to successfully rate the file! happy happy joy joy! i got an 80 for four stars, which is what i want and expect.

however, i do think its a bug that winamp should totally crash just as a result of trying to rate a file that it doesn't have access to (for whatever reason, tho in this case, a loose usb cable)

i don't know if other editing actions would cause a similar crash or not? or what other similar conditions might cause it, like a down network share.

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Old 14th December 2010, 04:39   #22
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good catch. let me fix that
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Old 14th December 2010, 05:43   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benski View Post
good catch. let me fix that
Usually it's not an outright crash when Winamp is missing files (happens to me a lot as my music is on a NAS) - usually it just freezes up for a few seconds. No freeze would be ideal, of course, but the error handling isn't all that bad at the moment TBH

Weeeeeeeeeeee
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Old 14th December 2010, 05:47   #24
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that probably is the case normally, but this is a new feature... each time i tried to rate a missing FLAC in the ML, it crashed immediately, and i'd be shocked to find out that would not happen 100% of the time given the same facts elsewhere.

(when i say missing really what i mean is unavailable)

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Last edited by MrSinatra; 14th December 2010 at 07:04. Reason: last bit
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Old 14th December 2010, 06:09   #25
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OK, I usually notice missing files in the playlist editor and not in the ML... maybe that's the difference

Weeeeeeeeeeee
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Old 14th December 2010, 13:59   #26
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Yeah, editing metadata on non-existent FLAC files is definitely not working.

Unfortunately, there's not much I can do about the freezing. It happens for files on a network drive when it's not connected. The Windows CreateFile() method hangs for multiple seconds in this situation and there's no way to interrupt it. The fix would be to move more of the metadata gathering code, particularly for the Bento skin, to another thread which likely would involve some big changes in the skinning engine.

Anyway, I have a fix for the crash but have to run to a meeting - will post it later
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Old 14th December 2010, 14:30   #27
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let me know if this fixes your crash, MrSinatra
Attached Files
File Type: 7z in_flac.7z (22.5 KB, 279 views)
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Old 14th December 2010, 19:44   #28
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indeed! the crash is fixed! now when the cable is unplugged, and i rate in the ML, the rating is applied but only to the ML DB or so i assume... no crash.

what do you think of adding a toggle in prefs that when 'on' would warn a user that changes are only being recorded to the ML DB and not the files, whenever the files happen to be currently unavailable?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 20th December 2010, 20:56   #29
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Any plans to make the POPM field show up when looking at the File Info? (Alt+3 / View file info)
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Old 20th December 2010, 23:00   #30
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a toggle option on the ID3v2 tab to go between the current mode and an 'advanced' mode which shows all of the fields in the found tag (like how the flac editor works) would probably be a better solution for people like you wanting to access specific fields (and would then match in with existing behaviour in the other plug-ins which also support the rating being written to the tag). and all could be done on the same tab page just with a toggle to switch the view mode on it (one for a developer with the time / interest i'd think @ benski ).

(disclaimer: this is just a thought / suggestion and doesn't guarantee anything ever being coded)

-daz
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Old 24th January 2011, 19:13   #31
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Quote:
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No idea about MP3Tag, but the easiest method of checking is (if on Vista/Win7 with WMP11/12) to check the Properties of the file in Explorer (Details tab), and you'll see that all of Windows, WMP & Winamp see the same ratings for mp3 & wma (alas, poor WMP/Windows can't see ratings in Vorbis Comments for flac/ogg).

The relevant id3v2 frame for mp3 is: POPM
(Popularimeter)
So now that Winamp supports writing ratings to the file, does that mean I could also change the rating while viewing the Properties of an mp3 using Windows Explorer on Win 7?

I remember Mr. Sinatra saying something about Win 7 having a bug that would destroy TXXX something-something...
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Old 24th January 2011, 19:35   #32
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that right, the bug will stomp your RG tags.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 24th January 2011, 20:45   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
<snip>
...

and btw, i know ratings are not yet done for mp4 and m4a (or whatever those damn apple formats are), but this might help implement that as well, (as an aside, notice Benski's post!):

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...hp/t31022.html

and in that thread is this useful link:

http://atomicparsley.sourceforge.net/mpeg-4files.html

which has a table showing "rtng" is used as the frame name, or so i am guessing. while i don't know what the data range is, those links might have it, and all you need to do is match it to whatever apple uses, much as POPM matches to windows/wmp (and the id3 spec).

apparently, you can embed id3 tags in a mp4/m4a too, although i don't know that that should be supported by winamp, but interesting nonetheless:

http://www.mp4ra.org/specs.html

...
<snip>
i should correct my info here, apparently "rtng" is a different kind of rating according to mp3tag:

http://help.mp3tag.de/main_tags.html

"ITUNESADVISORY
Syntax: 0, 2 or 4
Note: Content rating, use 0 = None, 2 = Clean, 4 = Explicit"

so maybe the tag for normal ratings would have to be invented like RG tags?

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Old 26th January 2011, 10:49   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post

please read my following post with an open mind, as i am not trying to be difficult or a PITA, but i am trying to make my case, and i think my argument is sound and my logic solid. i gave the topic a few days off, b/c it felt like the noise was getting too high for the signal, so i hope we can approach it fresh now ................................. so in any case, i hope you see now where i am coming from, and i hope you see that my solution is a good one, where vorbis ratings are concerned. let the user decide in prefs, what exact number to assign, and what range to use on import. it solves not only all issues today, but all possible future issues that come down the pike.

thx.
I can't agree with anyone more (than this post of MrSinatra).

Next/But my winamp (latest V5.6) is not able to read ratings given by M. Monkey or Windows7 (though it correctly assigns new ratings into the id3 tags).
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Old 26th January 2011, 15:43   #35
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I can't agree with anyone more (than this post of MrSinatra).

Next/But my winamp (latest V5.6) is not able to read ratings given by M. Monkey or Windows7 (though it correctly assigns new ratings into the id3 tags).
do you have write ratings to files turned on? what file formats? did you check with mp3tag what is happening?

did you use the files Benski posted in post 27 for vorbis?

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Old 27th January 2011, 19:18   #36
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more on mp4:

http://atomicparsley.sourceforge.net/mpeg-4files.html

...i tend to think winamp should just create its own ratings frame for these filetypes, since it seems nothing else is available or forthcoming.

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Old 29th January 2011, 21:53   #37
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actually it seems that twonky will read a frame (atom) called "rate"

http://forums.mp3tag.de/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=52305

so assuming mp3tag eventually does what this guy (and i) want, this solution seems viable enough.

fyi:

http://code.google.com/p/mp4v2/wiki/iTunesMetadata

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Last edited by MrSinatra; 29th January 2011 at 23:32.
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Old 17th February 2011, 01:08   #38
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Faith in winamp restored.
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Old 17th February 2011, 19:47   #39
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that right, the bug will stomp your RG tags.
Does it corrupt something, or just erase them?

Because right now I'm downloading a lot of remixes and I listen to them and kind of have an idea of what rating I want to give them. I do this at work and put them in my dropbox for when I get home.

So is it safe for me to rate in Windows 7 fresh off the web, then put it winamp and calculate replaygain after the fact? Then play said song and have both rating and RG intact, ready for play?
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Old 17th February 2011, 20:19   #40
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if you rate in windows 7 / wmp12 FIRST, and THEN apply RG, i believe that would be ok. however, if you rate AFTER rg was applied, it will corrupt the RG frame, without you knowing it, unless you actually check the values, which now will have letters instead of db values in it. recalculating RG will fix the corruption, but u need to do it for the WHOLE ALBUM, if its part of an album, and you have to know it happened. i periodically sort RG values column, and look for it in the middle of the list. nasty, ugly bug.

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